Are Biblical Prophecies About End-Times Restricted to Middle East?

[JoeMo]

This is just a wild-hair topic - something completely out of the blue that struck me last night.  It is in no way my personal belief; but it might be interesting to discuss.

 

The Bible is a book primarily written for Jews, by Jews, and about Jews.  With the exception of the last few chapters of Acts and (arguably Revelation), almost all of Biblical history and prophecy addresses events in and around the Middle East.  Is it possible that many of the end-time prophecies in Daniel and Revelation refer to events that are restricted to the Middle East rather than the entire planet?  Just asking - not trying to start a heresy or anything ...

[Lauralea]

Some end time Bible prophecies are universal, for instance, that every eye shall see him.  Not all the plagues are universal, or nobody would be left alive. Not all prophecies will be restricted to the Mideast however. Even if they were restricted to Jews, Jews are all over the world- for example, there are over 2 million Jews in New York City. I believe prophecies that deal with Israel in the future may be about spiritual Israel those who have accepted the Messiah, because the blessings are promised to those who have faith in the Messiah, who is Christ.  However, some may be about biological Israel such as Paul's prophecy of more Jews being converted. 

[Aliensanctuary]

Looking at the math, the New Jerusalem star-ship city is about 2/3 the size of the moon in volume. That seems a bit too large to be coming into contact with the Earth, creating a nasty wobble in its rotation. 

 

The prophecies of Dan and Rev indicate that the Last Days Beastly Powers rule the entire planet and are not restricted to the much smaller territories of the historical kingdoms of the same name.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Tom Wetmore
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[Joe_in_RP]

It's a widely held Adventist belief that America is named in Revelation.

 

But what about the other books the Bible like Ezekiel? There are some independent Christian ministers in America saying that Ezekiel 38 and 39 apply to America.

 

There are many independent Christian ministers who are having dreams. They claim these dreams are prophetic about America, calling Americans to repentance.

 

It's amazing to me, as someone on the outside, to see sin exploding in America, And the world church, the NAD, is silent.

 

Is it possible that God is using independent ministers to give a warning message to America?  The book of Joel talks about dreams in the last days.

[JoeMo]

Thanks for the feedback.  One of the reasons I ask is that it appears to me that the 144,000 will be made up exclusively of  "ethnic" Hebrews. I can't get my head around them just being "spiritual" Jews.  Technically, Jews are members of the tribe of Judah.  Revelation names 12,000 from each specific tribe.   My "belief", however, is that the end-time prophecies relate to the the inhabitants of entire planet  The great multitude of Rev. 9 is those saved from the non-Hebrew world.  In that sense, I really pray that I can be alive to witness the 2nd coming; and be one of those privileged enough to be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

[Gregory Matthews]

In one sense the words "Jew/Jewish" are used to refer to a religion and the word "Hebrew"  has reference to racial/ethnic origon.

[Aliensanctuary]

One can read a lot into the visualizations presented in Biblical prophecies, and I'm sure that most denominations each have a different Last Days scenario, not to mention the differences within each denomination. One should not overlook the Israel-centered End Times prophecies scattered throughout the OT, and the numerous descriptions of the Day of YHVH. Some may dismiss the role of the descendants of Jacob, and the rebirth of the Kingdom of Israel, in Last Days Events, but these individuals should really trashcan the Old Testament. Jesus Christ and the book of Rev reference a number of OT prophecies.

[JoeMo]

Lyndon,

"Ethnic Jew" was a misnomer.  Ethnic Hebrew or descendant of Jacob would have been a better term.  I know that Jews (as well as members of other tribes of Israel) are dispersed all over the world.  Many probably don't realize that they are descended from a tribe of Israel.  Maybe the worldwide dispersal of God's chosen people is one of the factors that enters into making the application of end-time prophecies world-wide.

[joeb]

Hey JoeMo,

How do you get to the point of saying that the Bible is primarily for Jews? The Bible teaches mankind about God, not just Jews about God. The OT was written to Hebrews/Jews but the primary purpose of God in creating the Jewish nation was to use them to teach the rest of humanity about Himself. They were to be the proverbial shining light on the hill for the world to observe and learn from. Unfortunately they didn't choose to do the work God intended them to do. So now we have Christianity, and sometimes I wonder if we are failing to do what the Jews were originally supposed to do.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Tom Wetmore
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[JoeMo]

joeb,

I never said the Bible was EXCUSIVELY for Jews.  You have to admit that more than 75% of it is the story of the Hebrews/Jews and one of their boys (Jesus).  Also, a majority of the history and prophecy in scripture deals exclusively with the Middle East and the area surrounding it.  I would doubt that any of the writers of the Bible (except maybe Paul) thought their writing was for anyone but the Jews or that silly little Jewish sect that followed Rabbi Jesus.

 

Now, in the Christian era, the Bible is indeed a message for all mankind.

[joeb]

JoeMo,

 

That's one way of looking it, but I must disagree.  Jews are humans and differ in no significant aspect in human nature from the rest of us.  Thus, any lesson to be learned from how they responded to God is applicable to us all.  Thus, I just can't see the point of saying the Bible was written primarily for Jews.  The OT was written primarily to Jews, but it was never meant primarily for them.  It's a slight, but very significant difference.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Tom Wetmore
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[JoeMo]

joeb,

Like I said in the first post of this thread - it is not a tenet of my belief system  that that the Bible was written for Jews; it was an "original thought". Hence, I put it under original thoughts for discussion purposes only; not as a proposed 29th pillar of the SDA faith.

 

Tom W.,

Sorry for the quote above.  Feel free to "edit" my post.

[joeb]

JoeMo,

 

I didn't mean my answer the way you took it.  But, if that's how you're going to take it, I guess that's your choice. 

[JoeMo]

Hey joeb,

I apologize for coming across as snooty.

 

I wonder, for example, about whether the whole earth is truly destroyed at the 2nd coming?  If it is, who are the "nations" spoken of in Romans 15:12, Rev. 12:5 and 19:15 over which Jesus shall rule with an iron scepter?  Who are the 'nations" that the Lord sends people to after He establishes His Kingdom (ref 2nd half of Isaiah:66)?

Is only the Middle East and surrounding area totally destroyed by His Coming; with pockets of survivors elsewhere on the planet?

[Lauralea]

JoeMo the Bible does teach that at Jesus coming every eye shall see him and they also which pierced him. Those who practice evil will say to the mountains  fall on us and hide us from the presence of the Lord. It is my understanding they get their wish and die then. Those who love the Lord and are alive when he comes  will be caught up together with the resurrected righteous and will ever be with the Lord. So at that point those who have trusted Christ for their salvation are in Heaven and the unconverted wicked are dead.No humans are alive on earth.

 

Jesus is coming back to the earth again after that with the righteous because the New Earth is our eventual permanent home. When he comes back he will judge all nations. Perhaps this is when He will rule them with a rod of iron. There is a resurrection of the unsaved because there is a judgement of the unsaved after which fire will come down out of Heaven and destroy them as well as Satan and the fallen angels. Lucifer was son of the morning but shall be ashes under our feet one day.

 

After that the earth will be made new and the lion will lie down with the lamb and all the other beautiful prophecies of the new earth. I think some of the prophecies in Isaiah were conditional prophecies for the Jews to be witnesses to the whole world. They did not choose to accept Christ as a group and so others are witnessing of Him today (as well as some converted Jews- I am one). It is true we will not witness in the same sense in the New Earth because there will not be unconverted people deciding to come to God but we will have a story to tell perhaps even to the inhabitants of other planets who never experienced what we did.

 

I know this forum is supposed to be original thoughts- not sure if this is  counting the Bible but  since this is about Bible prophecies I do not see how to discuss it without referring to them and would have quoted them. Maybe it is more of a theology question since we really need the Bible to understand Bible prophecy.

[JoeMo]

I just finished a word study on "God's wrath" and "wrath of God"; and many OT scriptures are clear that The end-time wrath of God affects (indeed virtually demolishes) the entire planet. I thank God that His people will be protected during this time.

[Ellen]

On reading about the new Jerusalem coming down, which is after the millenium,   I wonder if ther will be animals in it which will populate this earth after the fires of hell sterelize it.  That might include trees and plants which will seed this world.  Never thought about that before.

[JoeMo]

I sure hope so!  My wife and I have spoken about the possibilities of having some of our favorite pets back that have died over the years.  My response is that if God soesn't resurrect our animals, I'm sure He can make an exact replica. :music:

Edited December 6, 2014 by Tom Wetmore
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[Lauralea]

Ellen God says He will create a new Earth so I also believe we will have plants and animals like it was originally - not like now but everything perfect. They will all be nonaggressive and perfect so I think He will make more. And yes JoeMo I have also thought maybe we will have either our favorite pets or ones just like them.

[LifeHiscost]

I can't imagine God putting love into a person's heart for their pets, with the depth often expressed for them, without fulfilling this promise for the pet holder.

 

[Read] Psalms 20 [and] Matthew 10

 

God is Love! Jesus saves!

Edited December 6, 2014 by Tom Wetmore
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