bonnie Posted January 13, 2015 Share Posted January 13, 2015 I was in Albuquerque when the man was shot. There was a huge public outcry - even by the witnesses that were there. The man was several yards away from police and appeared to be just holding the knives - not really threatening anyone. Like I said, he was several yards away. He was also obviously having some sort of mental episode. Like the news article said, ABQ police were already under federal investigation for excessive use of force prior to this incident. And this means what? A revelation that there are those that abuse power and authority? Most adults already know that. If it is as you say and there wasn't any reason for this man to die then let them be tried and hopefully convicted and sentenced for a very long time. Is this supposed to indicate the use of force by police is typically excessive? Every profession has abusers that take any opportunity to abuse someone. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 13, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 13, 2015 I have seen the helmet cam video of the officer that appeared to be the farthest away. The vantage point included a view of two other officers closer to the homeless man, but still perhaps 10-15 feet away. It is unclear which one fired first but the autopsy report indicated that he was shot in the back, which is confirmed from the video. He had just turned away from them when the shots were fired. He did not appear to be threatening them at that point. It appeared we was attempting to gather up his stuff. He was order to get down on the ground shots were fired a second or two after the order. From what I saw in the video, I would have a hard time concluding the shooting was justified. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I think it's significant that the man killed had a knife and that the police officers were still changed. What do you think the significance is? God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Bonnie says: "So this makes all or most cops guilty by default?" and "Is this supposed to indicate the use of force by police is typically excessive?" I never said or even implied either of those things. You have a way of inferring the worst possible interpretation of anything anyone says who doesn't coddle up to your way of thinking. On the other side of the coin ... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/14/florida-teen-to-be-honored-for-helping-to-save-life-booking-police-officer/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Bonnie says: "So this makes all or most cops guilty by default?" and "Is this supposed to indicate the use of force by police is typically excessive?" I never said or even implied either of those things. You have a way of inferring the worst possible interpretation of anything anyone says who doesn't coddle up to your way of thinking. On the other side of the coin ... http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/01/14/florida-teen-to-be-honored-for-helping-to-save-life-booking-police-officer/ If someone is injured or killed by a police officer the automatic assumption is that it is excessive force. It is off and running with any event that can be dredged up to show this is common. I vaguely remember hearing about this man but don't know much about it. Maybe the PO are as guilty as accused of being,but it wouldn't really matter. Reading here it seems there are those that know the full story and exactly what happened and have decided the PO are guilty. Again if they are and receive a fair trial to prove that I hope they spend a very long time as guests of the state. If they are guilty they deserve a pretty harsh penalty and I hope they are convicted. It is a given by many that Michael Brown and the man in New York are dead because of excessive force rather than their own foolish behavior. I am glad that none of my family is a member of the police force in this current climate Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 15, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 15, 2015 That sort of reactionary response essentially seeks to absolve and shield those that serve to protect us from all wrong doing because of their mandate to serve and protect in the face of danger. It assumes a virtual immunity tantamount to an unrestricted license to kill with complete impunity. Not even the military has that when facing the enemy in battle At its core it is a blind foolishness and a gross misrepresentation of those that are protesting abuses of the powers and authority given to law enforcement. Nobody is disputing the good and valuable work and purpose of law enforce,ent and that the vast majority serve with honor and distinction and honorably within the bounds of the law. It is the abuses and violation of the very rules that law enforcement are bound to follow. Kountzer, lazarus and JoeMo 3 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 15, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted January 15, 2015 They (police) put their lives on the line protecting law-abiding citizens. Police officers should not have to risk their lives or the lives of innocent bystanders out of concern that they will be persecuted because the criminal in question happens to be black. http://patriotupdate.com/articles/study-finds-cops-hesitant-shoot-black-criminals/ This does not happen. I was puzzled by how researchers could study police reation times during a shooting. I checked out the original research. (a good habit I picked up from Bravus). "lo and behold" I found that the research was based on a simulation. They didn't even use law enforcement professionals !!!! They used members of the public and asked them watch video and to fire guns. Here's the kicker....the author says "The problem is that it (the research) bears not relationship to actual shooting events". "This is not real life, this is a laborotory". Unfortunately, you have been a victim of the very thing you are seeking to criticise here. Does this mean the thread is going my way now? Or is it your way? I'm not sure you that whole thing works. Perhaps it's your way or the highway. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 That sort of reactionary response essentially seeks to absolve and shield those that serve to protect us from all wrong doing because of their mandate to serve and protect in the face of danger. It assumes a virtual immunity tantamount to an unrestricted license to kill with complete impunity. Not even the military has that when facing the enemy in battle. At its core it is a blind foolishness and a gross misrepresentation of those that are protesting abuses of the powers and authority given to law enforcement. Nobody is disputing the good and valuable work and purpose of law enforcement and that the vast majority serve with honor and distinction and honorably within the bounds of the law. It is the abuses and violation of the very rules that law enforcement are bound to follow.In one sense you are right. It is a reaction but not what you blame that reaction on. It is a reaction to the continued assault because of a few. Those protesting abuses of power do so with looting,burning and harming others. Yes,I know it is only a "few". It is not considered only a few bad apples when it is the PO. The "few" number in the thousands across the US when it is claimed they are protesting the abuse of power by PO. The phrase "black lives matter" is a common chant,do the black victims of the the black protesters matter? If "black lives matter" the response to the high numbers of black on black violence would share the stage with Michael Brown and the others. There isn't any benefit or profit to caring about that.The acts that get traction and is used for an excuse to burn,loot,and injure,sometimes loss of life are the few numbers of black "victims" killed by a abuse of power and authority.We had a young completely innocent black nine year old girl shot in the head while she was doing her homework and the dining room table.She was killed by young black men. I can't imagine the heartache of those parents,but for some reason the black community did not care enough to burn loot and injure others in protest. If a black person is killed by a PO the automatic assumption is it was an act of racism. By liberals and the black race he is guilty until and if he can prove himself innocent. Regardless of the behavior of the black suspect he is exempt from consequences brought on by his own behavior. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 In all walks of life there are those that abuse their power. Special interest groups,teachers,lawyers pastors etc. Most abuses are seen as "well,that is only a few" until the complaint is made against white conservative christians. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 16, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 16, 2015 You perhaps don't understand how minority status factors into all of this. Have you ever lived in a country where you were distinctly in the minority? Where there cultural climate had long featured friction, conflict, oppression by the majority against your own minorty group? If you have not you really can't understand it. Deeply entrenched bias does not just reflect itself in the oppressors. It is just as pervasive among those on the receiving end of oppression. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 You perhaps don't understand how minority status factors into all of this. Have you ever lived in a country where you were distinctly in the minority? Where there cultural climate had long featured friction, conflict, oppression by the majority against your own minorty group? If you have not you really can't understand it. Deeply entrenched bias does not just reflect itself in the oppressors. It is just as pervasive among those on the receiving end of oppression. Do black lives that are lost due to black on black violence matter as much as those that are perceived to have been killed because of racial hatred or revenge. The little nine year old,totally innocent died because of black on black hatred. It appears she only mattered to her family. There wasn't any political gain or profit to riot,burn,loot and maim because of her. Imagine had she been mistakenly killed by a white PO. She was mistakenly killed by the black assailants. If anyone is unjustifiably killed because of any officer,black or white they deserve to be tried and convicted because lives do matter,black or white. The sheer number of blacks killed by blacks should matter as much and generate at least as much attention as the few that are killed by PO. They are all important but to the black community only when racism can be blamed do they become important. If you are opposed to racism/hatred you are opposed to racism.You can't condone or accept it in one situation and and riot in another. That is like being a little bit pregnant.You either are or you are not.The little nine year old should have been as important as Michael Brown, if not more so because of her age and complete innocence. She didn't. B/W Photodude 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Nothing in it for Al Sharpton. I believe they did find those responsible and the last I remember they were to be tried as adults. But had this child been gunned down by a white gang member the city would have been burning. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 17, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 17, 2015 Perfect response to most all of the nonsense being ignorantly spewed forth here. Watch it clear through to the end. Pay close attention around the 3 minute mark... Just pay careful attention to every last second of it. The court jester of the news is telling the truth... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Perfect response to most all of the nonsense being ignorantly spewed forth here. Watch it clear through to the end. Pay close attention around the 3 minute mark... Just pay careful attention to every last second of it. The court jester of the news is telling the truth... As determined by you?? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 17, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 17, 2015 He really didn't twist anything. He just brought out the truth of the inconsistency and gaps of the talking heads. And do you really think those talking heads were purists unconcerned about ratings! You just apparently can't handle the truth. Perhaps you might actually give a substantive response to refute him rather trying to immune his integrity. Give us some real specifics of what you mean by twisting anything. Tell us exactly where he is wrong. Show us how you are better and more fully informed and accurate in your opinion of the matters at hand. JoeMo 1 Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 He really didn't twist anything. He just brought out the truth of the inconsistency and gaps of the talking heads. And do you really think those talking heads were purists unconcerned about ratings! You just apparently can't handle the truth. Perhaps you might actually give a substantive response to refute him rather trying to immune his integrity. Give us some real specifics of what you mean by twisting anything. Tell us exactly where he is wrong. Show us how you are better and more fully informed and accurate in your opinion of the matters at hand. His description of Michael Brown is a little simplistic and leaves a lot out Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I am feeling this right now. I could care less what anyone else here says or thinks. RIP Dr King JoeMo and phkrause 2 Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 835076536552020 Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 19, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted January 19, 2015 "Mr. Klinger, a former cop and author of “Into the Kill Zone: A Cop’s Eye View of Deadly Force” (2006)." Its weird how this guy's "research" seems to be supportive of the cop's perspective. Lyndon, why base you argument on research that the researchers say bears "no relation to actual shooting events"? phkrause 1 Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 http://thefreethoughtproject.com/police-assault-handcuff-wrong-man-in-good-faith/ Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted April 8, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted April 8, 2015 We shall overcome,: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/south-carolina-cop-charged-with-murder-after-video-shows-him-shooting-black-man-dead/ Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 What a piece of you-know-what. The cop, that is. Too bad justice is very, very slow in this country. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted April 10, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted April 10, 2015 What a piece of you-know-what. The cop, that is. Too bad justice is very, very slow in this country. There is nothing particularly bad about this cop. It's just that the video gives a clear indication as to what happened in the case of this man's death. The fact that there is a video does not guarantee a conviction or mean that he will get a lengthy sentence. His mother has already been on TV saying what a great father and husband he is. He has a baby on the way. He's not crazy cop. He's a cop and he got caught on video. He's still a cop. The odds are very strongly in his favor. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I agree. Video of police misconduct doesn't mean much. I doubt if he is convicted. If he is convicted, I am talking about officer Slager in N Charleston SC, he will only spend a few months in jail, and get probation, at best. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kountzer Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I am a coast guard veteran. The police officer, Slager, and deceased victim, Walter Scott, are both coast guard veterans. Not that it means anything. The coast guard is relatively small compared to the other four military services. Being in the CG is similar to being an adventist in that respect. You can go days or months without running into one on a daily, outside the church, basis. Quote I prayed for twenty years but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. Frederick Douglass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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