Renewed_faith Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I am very new here and haven't come here often. I am just curious about something and while I have mixed feelings, I'd like some help with ideas or what have you. How do Adventists feel about immigrants in America? Should they have to learn the language if they are going to work and live here? How do we deal with the situations if they don't want to or don't even care to? Do we do anything at all? I do have friends that are immigrants but most of them are fluent in the english language while others aren't. What about the secular world? How should they deal with immigrants? Sorry if I offend anyone I just am curious,. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Hi The answers are as diverse in Adventism as they are in non-adventism. "You must not exploit a foreign resident or oppress him, since you were foreigners in the land of Egypt." More at http://biblehub.com/exodus/22-21.htm Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 and this "Let them live among you wherever they like and in whatever town they choose. Do not oppress them" More here http://biblehub.com/deuteronomy/23-16.htm Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renewed_faith Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 I know people who are racist and think that if the immigrants don't learn the american language they should be deported. However, I sometimes wonder if they should be or not. Just for that is stupid though. On the other hand, what about the illegal immigrants? Should we let them stay here in America and not learn the language? Should we deport them? Should we be giving them a license to drive? What if they can't even read American words? How do they pass an interview for a job that requires a person to speak, read and understand the American language? I am so very confused on this??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Hey Stan, Better post the text about being legal first...ya know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I know people who are racist and think that if the immigrants don't learn the american language they should be deported. However, I sometimes wonder if they should be or not. Just for that is stupid though. On the other hand, what about the illegal immigrants? Should we let them stay here in America and not learn the language? Should we deport them? Should we be giving them a license to drive? What if they can't even read American words? How do they pass an interview for a job that requires a person to speak, read and understand the American language? I am so very confused on this??? Why does tis make them racist....I know people who are racist and think that if the immigrants don't learn the american language they should be deported. However, I sometimes wonder if they should be or not. Just for that is stupid though. If they can function in the society that they have chosen to live in I don't think most people care whether they learn English or not. If you refuse to learn the language of your chosen country and continue to be a social and financial drain on others that is another matter. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 I emigrated to this country in 1955. I studied here without bilingual program. I strongly feel the bilingual program does harm to those who do not speak English. Anyone who wants to live abroad should learn the language of that country for their own sake. I see a few patients of my own country fellow men even though I am officially retired because those people can not communicate in English, it is sad. I do not understand earnestly those who want to live here yet do not want to learn the language and the rest of us have to cater them and get all the benefits of citizens of this country. The judge who instituted the bilingual education in China town in San Fransico way back must be a fool or a stupid in his mentality! I have a friend who came a year behind me yet, did not learn English too well. Once he was very proud to tell me that he got out of paying traffic ticket because the state trooper told him "speak English" as the trooper was not able to understand this guy's English. He took the trooper to court and the stupid judge dismissed the case because the judge said it is a racist remark. I would feel very ashamed if I were in his case never mind being so proud of getting out of ticket. As to illegal immigrants, I have not sympathy. They should come here legally. Let me tell you to those who are liberal. Read Eccl. 10:2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renewed_faith Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Ok, the entire situation is, it is a strain at work because we work with a large 95% of people who can not read english and who can barely speak it. 100% of our work is reading diagrams and they make mistakes all the time and don't do things that are in the diagrams and so the american people have to go behind and correct everything. We do get frustrated and one person I work with thinks they should all read, speak and understand what they are doing. Most are shown what to put but if there are changes to it (which lately there has been a LOT of changes) they don't know. They can't read and so they don't add what has been changed. I, as well as others are tired of going behind and correcting everything they do. We have tried to tell them but they tells us no, it's like this. We all have our jobs and it puts us behind when we have to do that. My company has decided that since they get a tax break they will hire all these people and Americans are wondering how they even passed the interview if they can't even speak or understand english. How??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Too many, too liberal people in this society! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 3, 2015 Members Share Posted January 3, 2015 Americans are wondering how they even passed the interview if they can't even speak or understand english. How??? probably because many companies now employ bilingual human resource workers who do the interviewing.. I agree, not learning English in the US is detrimental in a number of ways... I remember when I had to do an exam on a Hispanic man, ~ 20 yrs old. The RNs told me I'd need to bring along one of his English-speaking friends to translate. They were conversing in Spanish, and unbeknownst to them, I know enough to understand quite a bit. I continued speaking in English, and pretty soon the patient was doing exactly as I directed him, without benefit of his friend's interp. When I confronted him, they both laughed and said that many, if not most, of the Hispanics do know English, but for various reasons, prefer to let people think they have no idea what someone is saying to them in English... (not saying this is true of all Hispanics....this is just what I was told by these two young men) Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted January 3, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 3, 2015 I agree with whbae, that ANY newly-learned skill can only help, not hinder one's quality of life. Renewed_faith 1 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renewed_faith Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 @ rudywoofs I really wish that were the case here. However, our HR lady that does the interviewing, does not know spanish. Nor does anyone in management. Some of the managers and us have talked about it. I worked with a lady that was a legal immigrant about 20+ years ago and she wanted to learn english so she could communicate with people here. I taught her some easy words to start with. I was so proud of her for the WANTING to learn english. I quit after a few months only to go back about 7 years ago. As I walked into the room, she took a look at me, came running up to me and asked if I had worked there before and if I was the one that was teaching her english. I indeed was. I could not believe just how much she had improved! I was so proud that she continued to learn even after I left. We were the best of friends at work until she retired a few months ago. Then there are a VERY FEW who have not only learned english but they have also learned other languages to be able to communicate with the people from other countries who work there not of their own country. My hats are off to them. I do feel that one should learn the language of the country they reside in to be able to communicate with people. At least a little bit of it so they can at least work. Now we are giving them a license to drive. I wonder just how much they understand of the signs they have or if they consistently have an interpreter who reads the signs as they drive down the road. Thank you everyone who is participating in this conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 Stan, I bet you knew where this topic was going when started...just have put some money on it!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renewed_faith Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 Stan, I bet you knew where this topic was going when started...just have put some money on it!! I really hope you are not insinuating anything. I may be a little naive but it is an honest dilemma that I'm dealing with. I just want help to resolve this within myself. Please be understanding of what I am trying to understand. This is why I don't come here often. I feel as though you are trying to say something that was never my intent. Honest questions, honest answers please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 3, 2015 Share Posted January 3, 2015 The topic is going, will go off into the the illegal vs legal debate, in other words political. It is a topic that goes round and round, no end. Nothing against you, just an observation. You can do a search of past topics and find a truckload of posts. What is you intent in starting the topic? Spiritual or political? Curious...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renewed_faith Posted January 3, 2015 Author Share Posted January 3, 2015 It is just spiritual,..for me anyway. I had no idea that it would be something anyone would think it was a political debate. I am just having trouble with this. I work with so many immigrants some illegal while others are legal. Some try to learn and read english while others don't. I have no trouble with the ones who try to fit in our country. I just have a problem with the ones who think we should learn their language to communicate with them. As long as I (we) are not having to "clean up after them". People are people whoever they are. I am sorry that you or anyone else took it as a political thing. It isn't meant to be. Maybe I should just try to sort this out myself without others opinions. I will go read the posts you are talking about in this forum if I can find them. But it will have to be later as I have other things going on right now. Thanks for letting me know that this type of subject has been debated before. I honestly didn't mean for it to be... In Christ... I bid you a due Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 4, 2015 Members Share Posted January 4, 2015 I think the topic valid. If someone has a job and it requires the ability to read and understand English, it sorta behooves an employer to hire people who can read and understand English. It's not the responsibility of an employer to interpret, unless the employer knowingly hired people who couldn't read and understand English. If that was done, then (imho) it's the responsibility of the employer to provide either interpretation or education... It's not fair to other employees to "cover" for those whose work is substandard because they cannot follow instructions due to language limitations. One possible solution in a situation where workers had already been hired, would be to use a "buddy system" to pair an English-speaking worker with a non-English worker to help clarify what needs to be done... (I realize that would require extra time and effort on the part of the English-speaking workers, and not many would be pleased about it. ) I would hate to see people lose their jobs because of language barriers. The ultimate solution in such work situations would probably need to begin with the Employers. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 There is a conference magazine called Gleaner here at New England Conference. For many years, two pages were printed one in Portugease and the other in Spanish. I complained to the eidtor that this should not be done. It should be in all English. I pointed out this is a discrimination against some other nonEnglish speaking church members such as German, Vietnamese, or Chinese, etc. I was neglected and the practice kept continued for many years. Recently, I noticed it is no more. I hope it stays this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 The work place and the church are two, or should be, different situations. If a church paper thought it would be advantageous to its reader to include another language, go for it! When a person says it is discrimination because it doesn't print in all languages and then says it should be only English....what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Yes Pam, it is a worth while subject! But comments are already going down the road of legal vs illegal. It's sorta like when we discuss 'the poor', a check list is inserted. I have pts every single day who do not speak english, been in the country for some time and it never crosses my mind as to why. I don't know them and it's not my business as to why they do not speak english. If a person is working, paying their taxes, payroll deduction, I don't care! Why, you may ask? Because most likely they want to work, not an expectation, but a privilege to earn an income. I know of a landscaper here in Denver that started his own business and is very successful using immigrants on temp visa's, year after year the same persons. His comments were he has tried to use local 'non immigrant' labor, but they won't do the work required. Nope, he doesn't pay his 'south of the border' people less, he pays them what they are worth and they always come back to him. He even helps them with the whole paper process. They are good workers, but then that shouldn't be the question. Speaking from a Christian perspective, my point of view, a need is a need regardless of race, color, religion, immigration status, non believer, etc. We are all humans on this planet, I see no need to discriminate, Christ didn't or we would all be lost. (my two cents, take or leave it ) Tom Wetmore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 4, 2015 Members Share Posted January 4, 2015 I see what you're saying, Coaspen, and I may be wrong, but I think rf's issue has to do with the problems encountered in his job that are directly due to the fact that some workers apparently do not read/write English necessary to do the job. While it usually doesn't particularly matter if medical patients understand English while undergoing a medical procedure, it does matter when an employee's inability to speak English impacts other workers to the extent that it interrupts their normal work effectiveness and efficiency. It's not a matter of being mean or uncaring towards those who don't speak English; rather, in rf's case, it's a matter of infringing on his work practices when he needs to be constantly checking out someone else's job performance, while still having to do his *own* job. Not exactly an employee's dream job - doing your own work, plus that of someone else for which you're not getting paid... or... maybe I don't have the situation pictured correctly.. Renewed_faith 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 ...we work with a large 95% of people who can not read english and who can barely speak it. 100% of our work is reading diagrams and they make mistakes all the time and don't do things that are in the diagrams... Why can't the instructions be printed in the worker's language to reduce errors and wasted time making corrections? Why not bi-lingual instructions? I should refrain from making any comments about IQ's. We get multiple-language instructions on most of the electronics or other items that we buy. From those one could learn a little French, Spanish, German, Chinese, etc. by carefully comparing the English with the other languages printed therein. Well, Chinese might be a little difficult to learn from an instruction booklet. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I'm having difficulty in trying to think of a workplace that has 95% of its employees, non-English reading, and yet 100% of the work requires knowledge of the English language. Sounds like a business doomed for failure!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 4, 2015 Current Immigrants to the United States should do what the first immigrants to the united states did. That's only fair, right? Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Current Immigrants to the United States should do what the first immigrants to the united states did. That's only fair, right? Why not? If I decide to immigrate to Russia,what right do I have to refuse to learn the language so that I can support myself? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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