Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 4, 2015 Members Share Posted January 4, 2015 Just re-pondering the language issue in the US.... and comparing it to Canada.. While I understand the US is not a "monarchy" (yes, I know some will disagree), it's interesting to note that Canada has two official languages (English and French), and that it has Queen Elizabeth, whose official language is English, as its monarchal head. Canada seems to do fine with dual official languages. The US could probably do fine with dual official languages of English and Spanish...if that concept was given a chance.. I think a lot (but not all) of the anger and resentment in the US about the Spanish-only speaking population is fear-based... fear of some unknown "dangerous" consequences... but I've not come up with a rational notion of what those might be... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 Immigrants Must Learn English Fast | Mariela Dabbah www.huffingtonpost.com/.../immigrants-must-learn-... The Huffington Post Nov 23, 2011 - If you are an immigrant looking to succeed in the United States, you must learn English. ... to have a better living standard and more financialopportunities. Too often Latinos don't connect learning the language and furthering ... Immigrants Should Learn English - BusinessWeek www.businessweek.com/.../immigrants_should... Bloomberg Businessweek If we don't expect anyone to learn English, then please tell me what language .... moresuccessful in every way, in your daily life and your financial investments. Learning English can help immigrants survive - The Denver ... www.denverpost.com/.../learning-english-can-help-imm... The Denver Post Mar 11, 2013 - According to a recent Pew Research Center study, 87 percent of Latinos think it is important for adult immigrants to learn English to succeed. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 CoAspen, Why the church and the work place are different? Both are located in the place called United States whose standard language is English! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I like this But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ. http://biblehub.com/philippians/3-20.htm Our mission is still the Gosple Commission. I see no other. LifeHiscost and Ted Oplinger 2 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I think a lot (but not all) of the anger and resentment in the US about the Spanish-only speaking population is fear-based... fear of some unknown "dangerous" consequences... but I've not come up with a rational notion of what those might be... When I worked at the Home Improvement store I worked the early shift.There were between 40-60 on that shift depending on the season. To accommodate those that spoke another language would have required eveyone else to master 4 different languages Contractors would not have been to happy trying to place complicated orders with many different measurements dealing with non english speaking employee's.Not fear of any kind,simple economics and the time constraints they were dealing with. Families involved in do it yourself home improvement needed a knowledgeable person that spoke english to direct them to the best product for their needs. One employee that came from Africa had never seen wallpaper and didn't have clue what it was when a customer asked for samples.The customer was told we didn't carry it and a large order was almost lost. From there on everyone had to make themselves familiar with the products,how to measure and in english.Not fear,economics. We had our flooring replaced by two immigrants. One had been here only three years and had come knowing only a couple of words of english.We had time to visit while waiting for the floor clue to dry.His english was remarkable.The other barely understandable. He had actually been here longer. I asked the one how he learned english so fast as so fluently.His answer was he wanted to eat and earn money to bring his family here. He said he loved the US but couldn't understand why they would pay anyone to not learn or not work. I heard him taking his co-worker to the wood shed and insisted he speak only english or he would request not to work on jobs with him any longer. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 CoAspen, Why the church and the work place are different? Both are located in the place called United States whose standard language is English! One is secular the other is a spiritual environment. Separation of church and state.`````````` Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 5, 2015 Members Share Posted January 5, 2015 When I worked at the Home Improvement store I worked the early shift.There were between 40-60 on that shift depending on the season. To accommodate those that spoke another language would have required eveyone else to master 4 different languages so that Home Improvement store went under?? I'm guessing not..... my original thought about the issue of employees who are not proficient in English in a company where it is *necessary* to understand English still stands: it becomes the burden of the hiring employer to hire people who can do the job for which they are hired. If ones are hired who can't do the job, they should either get booted, or come to an understanding with the employer to learn the language in a timely manner. Economically, becoming a bilingual nation would really have more to do with *hiring* those who can do a job. If the job requires proficiency in English, that would need to be stated. If the job required proficiency in Spanish (or some other language), that would need to be stated... it's not rocket science -- and many, many places already have such requirements stated in job descriptions. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 so that Home Improvement store went under?? I'm guessing not..... my original thought about the issue of employees who are not proficient in English in a company where it is *necessary* to understand English still stands: it becomes the burden of the hiring employer to hire people who can do the job for which they are hired. If ones are hired who can't do the job, they should either get booted, or come to an understanding with the employer to learn the language in a timely manner. Economically, becoming a bilingual nation would really have more to do with *hiring* those who can do a job. If the job requires proficiency in English, that would need to be stated. If the job required proficiency in Spanish (or some other language), that would need to be stated... it's not rocket science -- and many, many places already have such requirements stated in job descriptions. There isn't any reason to guess.Nothing was said about the store going under.Had they catered to employees that did not speak understandable english it undoubtedly would have. Those that wanted to use the part time as a stepping stone to full time made sure they improved their english. Some of those that didn't work to improve their language skill were very quick to yell discrimination when they tried and failed to obtain full time. Why should those that do work towards becoming fluent and supporting themselves and the rest of the taxpayers support those that refuse? Given this it shouldn't be considered a problem.... and many, many places already have such requirements stated in job descriptions. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 The separation of church and state refers to politics, not the language!!!!! LifeHiscost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 5, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 5, 2015 Based on many of the conversations had here in theses forums, I am not sure a common language necessarily brings real understanding. Sometimes it has little or nothing to do with the actual language used. Here is a real world experience that I had early on in my career as a lawyer for the Church that similarly showed that using a common language does not necessarily further communication and understanding. We were doing international legal compliance audits/survey in the various union conferences of one of the world divisions. Within that territory there were multiple languages used including English, not to mention differing legal systems. Two consecutive meetings with two very different conferences were in sharp contrast. The first was in an English speaking country with a legal system based in British common law, not terribly dissimilar to that of the US with which those of us conducting the audit/survey with most familiar. The local legal counsel for the union conference was also at the meeting. The next visit was with a union conference in a non-English speaking country with a civil law legal system quite different from ours. We had to speak though a translator and their legal counsel was not present. As I said, those two meeting were in sharp contrast, but in decidedly a different direction. The first was fraught with misunderstanding and confusion even though we had a common language and similar legal background. We finished without achieving much of our objectives in understanding the legal compliance issues and concerns there. In the second location, everything went much more smoothly and even took less time, even though we were communicating through the translator. They understood what we trying to accomplish and were able to accurately convey all the necessary information we needed with the appropriate documentation. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 A short time before Christmas I had to deal with someone that did not speak english very well. My machine runs off the computer and needed a special update that could be done by remote access to my computer.I tired to be patient with him,he was really trying but I did not have the time to spend over an hour with him only to find we had misunderstood each other and it was wrong. And then to have to start all over with someone else I felt really bad having to ask for a english speaking tech but I needed to have this done correctly. Nothing to do with fear or some negative reaction to someone that does not speak english. When families would come in with small children they wanted a sales associate that they could understand and that would understand them. When I go into the small ethnic grocery here I expect to have delays and at times misunderstanding what I am after. That is my choice to go into somewhere that is likely to happen.There if a mistake is made it can be easily corrected. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 Tom Wetmore, You are talking about two different things. We are talking about people living in this country should speak the standard language which is English. You are dealing with international affairs. Any one who wants to live in a country other than one's own native land should learn and speak the language of the country one intends to live to be fair to everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted January 5, 2015 Members Share Posted January 5, 2015 When I was working a Atlantic Graphics, there were many hispanic speaking friends and most if not all said that anybody who comes over from any other hispanic speaking country should learn english. They also thought that the USA made it to easy for hispanic's to not learn english. Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 I like this But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ. http://biblehub.com/philippians/3-20.htm Our mission is still the Gosple Commission. I see no other. And I would suggest most difficulties would just turn into things to do, not excluding myself, if we all put into practice the fruit of the Spirit. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.…Galatians 5 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted January 5, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 5, 2015 A very significant part of the problem here is that we have a one size fits all sort of perception for this issue. One size does not fit everyone. You have recent immigrants and those that have been here for quite some time. Some come here with English fluency already and others that know not a word of English. You have people that easily learn another language and others who struggle no matter how hard they try. But to listener to those complaining and griping about immigrants that don't speak English, the expectations seem to not account for all the differences. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 5, 2015 Share Posted January 5, 2015 A very significant part of the problem here is that we have a one size fits all sort of perception for this issue. One size does not fit everyone. You have recent immigrants and those that have been here for quite some time. Some come here with English fluency already and others that know not a word of English. You have people that easily learn another language and others who struggle no matter how hard they try. But to listener to those complaining and griping about immigrants that don't speak English, the expectations seem to not account for all the differences. As you so frequently do,you project your own opinion as fact for what others think. Nowhere have you read anything that states everyone coming here should have perfect command of english. Or that they shouldn't have an opportunity to learn. It is those that refuse to learn or try,expecting to be cared for Like it or not when applying for a job where at least passable fluency in english is required those that can and refuse to learn are severely handicapped. If immigrants refuse to assimilate to the degree they can function comfortably in the country they have chosen to live in,they are a drain on others. There is help that many ignore,not feeling the necessity to at least try.English classes were held at our library,minimal or free for those unable to pay. The classes have been cancelled due to lack of interest. We have enough non english speaking immigrants in this area the classes should have been full Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 What about those English speaking native born that still can't 'speak' English! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 bonnie, I agree with 100%. When I came to this country back in 1955, there was no such a thing as bilingual ed or English class for non-speaking students. There are ample opportunities free for the foreigners to learn English supported by us, tax payers money. The main problem is our government and some liberal people keeping them ignorant of English language by giving them help with their native language thinking those are being helped. In fact, this kind of service is not a help, just encourage them where they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 bonnie, I agree with 100%. When I came to this country back in 1955, there was no such a thing as bilingual ed or English class for non-speaking students. There are ample opportunities free for the foreigners to learn English supported by us, tax payers money. The main problem is our government and some liberal people keeping them ignorant of English language by giving them help with their native language thinking those are being helped. In fact, this kind of service is not a help, just encourage them where they are. We had a very wealthy couple in our church when I was a child.He sponsored german immigrant families to the US. They arrived knowing little if any english. The children went to our very small church school and it was sink or swim. They went from not knowing english to very passable english in one school year. Most left us in the dust when it came to academics by the end of the year. They were motivated and wanted to succeed. Regardless of your race,skin color,or language,each one should be expected to live up to their individual capabilities. phkrause 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierrepaul Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 Current Immigrants to the United States should do what the first immigrants to the united states did. That's only fair, right? Make war on the natives and conquer their land? Tom Wetmore 1 Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted January 6, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2015 Make war on the natives and conquer their land? LOL, you are a sharp brother. Took a while but we got there. We should be thankful that these days most immigrants want to be left in peace to speak their language (learn English if they really want to get ahead) eat their food, make money, have kids and enjoy this wonderful country, In general they want to make a better life for themselves and their families. The first lot liked to kill women, children and take stuff. I'm glad they left. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 6, 2015 Share Posted January 6, 2015 LOL, you are a sharp brother. Took a while but we got there. We should be thankful that these days most immigrants want to be left in peace to speak their language (learn English if they really want to get ahead) eat their food, make money, have kids and enjoy this wonderful country, In general they want to make a better life for themselves and their families. The first lot liked to kill women, children and take stuff. I'm glad they left. Here we go again. Most people do appreciate and are grateful for those immigrants wanting to come here,learn,succeed and make a better life. That has what to do with wrongs committed in the past by people long dead? Yes, there were many wrongs committed by white settlers. But that wasn't invented by white settlers.Unfortunately it was continued and the very people that had used the same methods couldn't understand the same cruel method being used to subdue them Blacks captured and sold blacks,free blacks had slaves in the US and didn't treat them to kindly. Native Americans made war with other tribes,women and children were killed before the white settlers came here. Lazarus,when are you going show signs of wanting to exhibit lifelong repentance for the atrocities committed by your black ancestors against other blacks? After all the evil white man needed to cooperation of the black man to succeed with slavery. I haven't heard any remorse by Native Americans for the atrocities that were committed on other tribes? That was an accepted way of the world,no matter how wrong it was. The stronger took from the weaker. We cannot change what has happened decades ago by not expecting immigrants to use the capabilities they have. I don't owe anyone now for what took place long before I was born.Nor does anyone else. If I am expected as a white person to forever more do penance for what my ancestors did,I expect the same from you and the hideous part your ancestors played. If I am expected to do same for Native Americans then I expect them to do same for the atrocities they committed against other tribes Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renewed_faith Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 Wow! I had no idea when I asked (what I thought was a simple) question that it would go like this. Now I know why the person early on said what he did. I did not intend for this topic to go this way at all. I'm sorry everyone. i will just try to figure this out on my own. Rudywoofs had the right way this was intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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