bonnie Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Viewpoint: The Hollywood Church Emphasized Justice, but Not Righteousness 19 January 2015 | Melody George Ryan Bell was my pastor from 2007 to 2010. When I first heard about his one-year experiment with atheism, I stayed largely absent from the conversation. I didn’t read his blog or the articles in the Times. I didn’t listen to the stories on NPR. It was too emotional, too painful. I tried to ignore it. Perhaps now that the experiment is over and the outcome known to all, it’s time to confront those feelings. During my time in Hollywood, I spent over two years filming a documentary about Ryan’s team and their radical work at the Hollywood Adventist Church. I also became a member and an active participant in the congregation. My time at Hollywood was, without doubt, the most fulfilling church experience of my life thus far. I’ll never forget how Ryan immediately invited us into a conversation about what the church was to become. I’ll never forget how he sought me out as a new attendee and set up a lunch meeting just to get to know me better. I’d never had a pastor take personal interest in me before. Ryan saw community as the key to real spiritual growth and impact, and he pursued it with genuine warmth and friendship. What followed was certainly the highlight of my Christian experience. Over the next three years, I had a front row seat as God began to do something exquisite in this tiny church community. Ryan tasked us with a question: “How can we be a people among whom God dwells?” and let us young adults take ownership in shaping the church. We had desired this ownership, this place at the table, our entire Adventist lives. We invited God to dwell at our small purple-colored church in Hollywood, and he came. We asked him how we could make room for him to work, and he answered. It was almost as if a beacon had been lit. There was an uncanny convergence of young, talented, creative, passionate Christians showing up at the church. If I remember correctly, the size of the congregation doubled in about a year. But it wasn’t just the numbers that changed. There was a very deep sense of family that emerged. I knew most of the people in the congregation, and I loved them, and they loved me. We worshipped together. We hung out together. We ministered in Hollywood together. They became my family. And I had the chance to catch it all on camera, in what became the North American Division web series, “Stained Glass: Hollywood Blvd.” My whole life I had wanted to believe that an early-church type of experience was possible. God gave the church power to heal the sick, cast out demons, and spread the good news. This was the first group I’d encountered that took that charge seriously, and humbly asked questions about how to realize the dream. And in Hollywood of all places. The potential for a life of thrilling ministry and transformative church community boggled my mind. I felt more alive than I ever had. But no church is perfect. I left the Hollywood Church in 2010, well before Ryan announced his experiment with Atheism. But I believe I saw the seeds of that journey planted. And in watching the Hollywood Church’s story unfold, and Ryan’s, I have learned a lot that I feel compelled to share. I won’t address the question of God’s existence in this article; my thoughts are for those who embrace a Christian worldview. In my last year at Hollywood, I watched the slow dimming of the light that had been lit on Hollywood Blvd. The culture that had emerged in the church was “we’re non-judgmental; everyone’s welcome here.” But I watched as Ryan and the leadership took this beautiful principle to an extreme that, I believe, barred God from continuing to work there. When the subject of sexual purity within the congregation became an issue, I watched as elders were too afraid of appearing judgmental to lovingly challenge people to be their best. So they implicitly and explicitly supported immoral behavior instead. When hot-button issues of the day came up, I saw a knee-jerk allegiance to political correctness that overshadowed our previous humble stance of, “Lord, what would you have us do?” I watched as any incidence of demonic influence was labeled “mental illness,” and as the charge to “heal the sick,” got relegated to fixing healthcare at a systemic level. We began taking political action to address homelessness, but walked past the homeless man standing outside the church. In Bible studies we would commiserate about the impossibility of really knowing God’s will or overcoming sin. I will always remember the day an theist friend visited the church. His reaction was, “I don’t have any respect for this church because you try to appeal to everyone; you don’t stand for anything.” Psalm 89 proclaims, “Righteousness and justice are the foundation” of his throne. At the Hollywood Church, justice reigned, and people got a little uncomfortable when someone said the word righteousness. But there’s a reason those two words are paired together. I believe there’s a place for political action as Christian individuals, and a place for fighting systemic social problems as well. But when Jesus said we would do the same things he did, and greater things, he meant it, and he meant it in a spiritual, supernatural way. And his power can only descend on us to the degree that we embrace righteousness and truth in our lifestyles. Ironically enough, the very things we were afraid to stand for—sexual purity, as an example—were quite possibly the truths that could have blessed our neighbors in Hollywood the most. In short, within the Hollywood Adventist Church community during the Ryan Bell years, there grew a fear of appearing intolerant that superseded our desire for truth. There was a fear of appearing judgmental that turned righteousness into a bad word. There was a desire to be politically correct that made us forget Christianity was never intended to be cool to the world; a desire to fit in with the culture that kept us from getting too spiritually radical. And there was an “open-mindedness” that precluded the possibility of traditional thought being right. Political correctness is a wonderful thing when it reminds us to be fair and unbiased, to be sensitive to people’s differences and treat others with respect at all times. But it can also lead us to obscure truth for fear of offending. And there are times when offensive things need to be said. Jesus was certainly one of the most offensive public figures of his day, yet he was never obnoxious just for the heck of it. He had a close enough connection with the Father to know truth, and he spoke it unflinchingly. Sometimes that truth turned people away, as in John 6: “On hearing it, many of his disciples said, ‘This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?’ Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus asked them, ‘Does this offend you?’. . . From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.” On a day that is burned into my memory, the church office got a phone call from a woman pleading for help. She said she was being attacked by demons every night, and in desperation had called the first church she could find in the phone book. Our response to the call? We’ll pray for her. That day, I knew my time at the Hollywood Adventist Church was coming to an end. How could we confront such a thing when our thinking had become so secular that we didn’t take spiritual warfare seriously? Even if we did take it seriously, how could we enter that situation with any spiritual authority when we as a body had allowed sin directly and intentionally into our midst? Had we tried to help her, would our outcome not have been the same as the seven sons of Sceva? “The evil spirit answered them, ‘Jesus I know, and Paul I know about, but who are you?’ Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked and bleeding.” A church located in the heart of Hollywood, one mile from the Kodak/Dolby Theater and the Walk of Fame. A building seen by hundreds of thousands from the 101 Freeway every day. Such potential. But we fell short of our impact because we were too afraid to call sin “sin,” to challenge each other in love to rise above it, and to believe God’s miraculous power is still available to the church today. I’m not suggesting we run up and down the aisles of our churches shouting, “Sinner, sinner!” But there is wisdom in James’ words, “confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.” There is a place in the modern church for holding each other accountable in love and working together to pull each other higher. Indeed, I would call this true church. And at Hollywood, we were close enough friends to be able to respectfully confront each other. But we rarely did. Many terrible acts of intolerance have been perpetrated by religious people and institutions in the past, and those acts are never condoned by God. But now, classically, the pendulum swings too far in the opposite direction. In a culture of moral relativism—one which celebrates open-mindedness, claims all paths are equal, praises those who “don’t have answers,” and even lauds those with courage to doubt — have we forgotten the exclusive nature of Jesus’ claim: “There is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved”? Have we forgotten the Gospel record that demons trembled in his presence, knowing exactly who he was: “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God?” They still react to his name in the same way today. When the Samaritan woman questioned Jesus on where to worship, he didn’t say, “All paths are equally valid,” but responded with a firm, “Salvation is from the Jews.” Where is the good old-fashioned common sense that tells us we can say boldly “I believe this is true,” and still be loving and respectful to all who believe differently? Where is the wisdom that instructs us on how to walk that fine line, case-by-case? Where is the deep love that accepts people exactly as they are and yet inspires them to be all they can be? Where are the holy, spirit-filled people who will not compromise their integrity, but will love and serve with the tenderness of Christ himself? “I don’t condemn you. Go and sin no more.” If a church member struggles with drug addiction, is the appropriate response, “We won’t judge you here”? Or is it to rally around him and bolster his sense of self-worth, give him back a picture of his future, drive him to his court dates and sit beside him while his body screams through the pain of withdrawal? What is the true picture of a Christ-follower? It is neither the person who shouts, “You sinner!” nor the one who turns a blind eye so as not to offend, but the one who holds back a brother’s hair as he vomits into a bucket on the way to recovery. Ryan Bell was and is a brilliant speaker, a radical thinker, a voracious learner, a truly compassionate person and a good friend. I have seldom seen someone work for justice as tirelessly as he. How does this person, seemingly so connected to the James 1:27 definition of “true religion,” go down the road toward Atheism? I don’t know. There are many sides to the story which I’m sure we’ll never hear. But I have great fear for a generation of Christians that thinks truth is relative and morality is self-defined. It leads toward a dangerous line of thinking that says, “I will be like the Most High.” There is, and always will be, great disagreement on what constitutes truth and morality. But I trust to Jesus’ promise that “anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.” What can we learn from Ryan Bell? We would do well to adopt his willingness to think critically about how we do religion, his searching mind, his great compassion for the oppressed and his desire to work for justice. We’d also be wise to remember the cautionary tale of the Hollywood Church, so afraid of appearing judgmental that it actually deprived the city of some of the greatest gifts it had to offer. Many criticize the conference for asking Ryan to step down from his position as pastor. But Ryan wasn’t teaching Adventism. Even he wouldn’t deny that. So how can one fault the Adventist Church for simply upholding what it believes to be true? It is possible for a group of spirit-filled believers to know with authority what is right and wrong. It is possible to know in your heart of hearts that God exists, and to say with authority that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life—and at the same time, to love, respect, and learn from others who see the world differently. I will always love and respect Ryan Bell. I’m so grateful for the opportunity he gave me to take ownership in my church, and to think critically about what it means to be a church. I will never forget the wonderful years I spent there . . . and will always experience an acute sadness over his loss of faith. I know God is alive, and slowly I’m learning I don’t have to be ashamed to say I know it. “How can we be a people among whom God dwells?” phkrause, jackson, Kevin H and 4 others 7 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 My reaction as well. Unless the author has more info about the person than what he wrote, I wondered about his diagnoses, with out any supporting documentation. I would hope that people who have given up on a belief do not get put into the 'depression' bucket!! Ellen White predicted a progression from rejection of the Gift of Prophecy, to rejection of the Bible, to rejection of God -- and she never stated that "depression" is the cause or necessarily the result. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Viewpoint: The Hollywood Church Emphasized Justice, but Not Righteousness 19 January 2015 | Melody George When the subject of sexual purity within the congregation became an issue, I watched as elders were too afraid of appearing judgmental to lovingly challenge people to be their best. So they implicitly and explicitly supported immoral behavior instead. When hot-button issues of the day came up, I saw a knee-jerk allegiance to political correctness that overshadowed our previous humble stance of, “Lord, what would you have us do?” I watched as any incidence of demonic influence was labeled “mental illness,” Eph 4 describes it as "blown about by every wind of doctrine" Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Left out was two other persons from the church that wrote responses to the Melody article, in counterpoint!! One might want to gather all opinions on a subject before 'casting stones'. Selective reading can keep us from the full picture and truth. Truth being in the eye of the beholder. We all have our background and preconceptions that guide our opinions. 4 People watching a crime take place have 4 different view points of what they saw. That is why much time is spent in gathering all the information available, research if you will. Our Spiritual life should be no different. Kevin H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Left out was two other persons from the church that wrote responses to the Melody article, in counterpoint!! One might want to gather all opinions on a subject before 'casting stones'. Selective reading can keep us from the full picture and truth. Truth being in the eye of the beholder. We all have our background and preconceptions that guide our opinions. 4 People watching a crime take place have 4 different view points of what they saw. That is why much time is spent in gathering all the information available, research if you will. Our Spiritual life should be no different. It is one persons' viewpoint. I fail to see the need to comb thru the internet to find all opinions on this. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted January 28, 2015 Moderators Share Posted January 28, 2015 IMHO, it would have been best to keep his quest/journey quiet. Naomi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 IMHO, it would have been best to keep his quest/journey quiet. Could the same be said of Ellen White, or any of the believers? The issue with Ryan Bell is that he really brought out what many people have already questioned about the belief in the open. In church these issues are taboos which are seldom discussed. When you ask these questions, people feel stumped, shocked and angered. Eventually their inability to find answer either resolves by digging their head in the sand even deeper in their inability to confront these issues, or starting on the path that eventually rejects the faith... because the orthodoxy is structured in "my way or the highway" type of approach. In case of Ryan Bell... he was trained as a pastor, so he had no other outlets other than find new ways to apply his previous experience as occupation. Would church continue support him if he openly disagreed or lacked belief? Would they find a way to soften his transition to other occupation? Nop. They simply cut him off, and set him loose with "we'll pray for you". I think it would be much more telling if he received adequate support and room to explore these issues under the church umbrella. The outcome would be perceived differently. Kevin H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierrepaul Posted February 9, 2015 Share Posted February 9, 2015 Ryan Bell's experience is an example of why I believe that the SdA church should not have full time "pastors" assigned to congregations. While a "worker is worthy of his hire", no person should be dependent on the church hierarchy for his living, nor be at the mercy of his membership. I have known too many clergymen who stayed too long in the clergy because their family's well-being depended on dad receiving a denominational paycheque. Quote God never said "Thou shalt not think". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 9, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 9, 2015 When convient, quote from non-SDAs. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Rather than being depressed he may feel relieved that, like you said, he can now be really honest about where he is. The good thing is the even though he may have given up on God, God has not given up on him. How can a person be "be really honest" when disavowing the Person Who made "honest" a principle of His creation? God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted February 10, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 10, 2015 How can a person be "be really honest" when disavowing the Person Who made "honest" a principle of His creation? God is Love! Jesus saves! Atheists are capable of telling the truth. Christians are capable of obfuscating it. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 10, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 10, 2015 Lyndon, post 37: You got the message. I was not directed at any specific person. It was not directed at any specific post. It was a generalized statement. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 10, 2015 Share Posted February 10, 2015 Atheists are capable of telling the truth. Christians are capable of obfuscating it. Indicating that all have fallen short of the glory of God. Atheists tell the truth when it is expedient for their purposes to lead others astray ( for God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened ) and Christians can obfuscate, I think if done, more often than not when believing it will protect their own interests. ( The woman you put here with me__she gave me some fruit from the tree and and I ate it. ) The major difference between the two is the Christian's acceptance of the gift of repentance and the unwillingness of the atheist to admit that anyone other than themselves could be correct if it should mean loss for themselves. God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Viewpoint: The Hollywood Church Emphasized Justice, but Not Righteousness 19 January 2015 | Melody George A great article here, thank you bonnie for sharing that, I am watching my former church and denomination implode in the same way and for the same reasons. The Baptist Union of New South Wales in Australia recently held a church growth conference and it revealed that churches that go down the pathway of promoting social justice issues are continuing to decline at the same rate as they were before they moved into that type of message. As your correspondant correctly points out, they end up in a place where they stand for nothing at all and there is no real reason for anyone to attend, no challenge to be be any different, no challenge to change any area of sin in your life. Perhaps to some it sounds like a great idea, but the reality is that it simply continues the church on the path towards closure. Many Uniting churches in Australia are shutting their doors along with Salvation Army churches and other mainline churches and i suspect its largely for the reasons you state above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The Baptist Union of New South Wales in Australia recently held a church growth conference and it revealed that churches that go down the pathway of promoting social justice issues are continuing to decline at the same rate as they were before they moved into that type of message. As your correspondant correctly points out, they end up in a place where they stand for nothing at all and there is no real reason for anyone to attend, no challenge to be be any different, no challenge to change any area of sin in your life. Perhaps to some it sounds like a great idea, but the reality is that it simply continues the church on the path towards closure. Many Uniting churches in Australia are shutting their doors along with Salvation Army churches and other mainline churches and i suspect its largely for the reasons you state above. Our sermon on Sabbath dealt with this and other issues/changes creeping into the church. Absolutely the best sermon I have heard in years. It was interesting that the sermon itself went for over 1 1/2 hours and even kept the attention of the children. It dealt with giving sin a new sanitized name to make it more comfortable for people to remain where they were at. Church service was now more to entertain than the original purpose of the church service and above all,nothing in a sermon should tweek or offend anyone LifeHiscost and Sojourner 2 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 19, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 19, 2015 Could the same be said of Ellen White, or any of the believers? The issue with Ryan Bell is that he really brought out what many people have already questioned about the belief in the open. In church these issues are taboos which are seldom discussed. When you ask these questions, people feel stumped, shocked and angered. Eventually their inability to find answer either resolves by digging their head in the sand even deeper in their inability to confront these issues, or starting on the path that eventually rejects the faith... because the orthodoxy is structured in "my way or the highway" type of approach. In case of Ryan Bell... he was trained as a pastor, so he had no other outlets other than find new ways to apply his previous experience as occupation. Would church continue support him if he openly disagreed or lacked belief? Would they find a way to soften his transition to other occupation? Nop. They simply cut him off, and set him loose with "we'll pray for you". I think it would be much more telling if he received adequate support and room to explore these issues under the church umbrella. The outcome would be perceived differently. Did Ryan Bell receive a divine revelation/commission to involve the press in his journey into atheism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted February 19, 2015 Share Posted February 19, 2015 Did Ryan Bell receive a divine revelation/commission to involve the press in his journey into atheism? If he did, then he wouldn't be an Atheist right now... and that's the point. We can't get inside anyone's head to find out whether they really did speak to God or just made it up, consciously or subconsciously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 19, 2015 Members Share Posted February 19, 2015 Needs to be compared or compliment the Bible! If it doesn't agree, its definitely not from God!! Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I don't agree with the notion that Ryan Bell is in the throes of "major depression." That assessment rather smacks of trying to figure out an excuse as to why he made the decision to state that he doesn't think God exists. I think the "God" that many Christians worship really *doesn't* exist. Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Is this description of God sufficient? God is Love! Jesus saves! Jesus would seem to me to be the best example of what Love is. Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Did Ryan Bell receive a divine revelation/commission to involve the press in his journey into atheism? …16So Jesus answered them and said, "My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me. 17"If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself. 18"He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.…John 7 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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