Neil D Posted June 5, 2015 Share Posted June 5, 2015 I asked for a clarification of God's hating from Malachi....I'm not here to clarify God's result in His choice to hate....that's up to this forum...But to stir up the grey matter a bit, if God 'created people only to destroy them', doesn't 'that make God some kind of monster'?My question to you is "If God saved all, even those who don't want to be in heaven, doesn't that make God some kind of monster?" Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 6, 2015 Members Share Posted June 6, 2015 (edited) I don't believe God created people to destroy them Neil! How can you say that?? And I don't believe he will take those that don't want to be in heaven and I don't mean those that actually sit around and think that in there head, I believe you know what I mean.. Edited June 6, 2015 by phkrause Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted June 13, 2015 Moderators Share Posted June 13, 2015 On the agape level, no. On the phileo and storge level, absolutely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 So, read Malachi 1:2-4... It is a text that shows that God is actively pursuing the destruction of people who He does not love......Why? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unchained Posted September 11, 2015 Share Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Good question, @Neil D. I think it's important to recognize that God hasn't put himself on trial in a literary sense in the Bible. The Bible is a description of the character of God, we learn of his attributes, but it's conveyed through a human and imperfect language. I really like Ellen White's take on this. (See 1SM 21.1). We shouldn't necessarily take for instance Psalms 139:21-22 as an infallible expression of the character of God. We learn something about the zeal of David through these verses, but it's not Yahweh himself speaking here. The same is true regarding the prophets who spoke for God. They were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but their mode of expression was human, not divine. Edited September 11, 2015 by Unchained Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted September 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 12, 2015 There is evidence that Esau may have had a saving relationship with God, and since this is the original thoughts forum I won't mention that there is evidence that Job got his faith from Esau, but in the Bible Edom is pictured as once following the truth but having backslid. Esau did not have what it took to be the leader of God's chosen people. We don't know how God could have worked it out had Jacob not deceived his father. But during the years he was away Esau had to do the work. Esau valued the freedom to just go off on one of his hunting trips too much that he did not really want the responsibility. When Jacob returned Esau gladly let him take over, and it appears that he had a sense of freedom and relief and a closeness to his brother where they both buried their father. Jacob on the other hand was focused on the covenant and the role at the leader. For a long time he was a religious man but not a converted man. In heaven I hope that I can hear Esau tell his story of the years that Jacob was away. Lauralea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted September 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 12, 2015 (edited) Of course God does not stop loving. That is what makes hell hell. Jesus is their deepest desire. Hell is basically a stalemate of God continuing to love and draw them to himself and doing everything short of forcing the will, and the lost are overwhelmingly attracted to Jesus and being with him is their deepest desire, but they formed a character of refusing to come, they have destroyed their will. they are slaves to their feelings. They cannot comprehend forgiveness because they are not forgiving people. They want to yield to this overwhelming power of God's love but they won't. If only God would stop loving them and stop drawing them they could get some relief but this overwhelming drawing power of God's love and their refusal to yield to it is what makes hell so horrible. Edited September 12, 2015 by Kevin H GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted September 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted September 12, 2015 In at least one Bible the sense of the Hebrew words are rendered not as love and hate but as chose and rejected. That meaning clears up some of the confusion. JoeMo and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Gail Posted September 12, 2015 Administrators Share Posted September 12, 2015 Joeb, you need to be mindful of which forum this is Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 And, BTW, the Bible states that God is agape. Agape is not an attribute of God, it is who He is and will always be.... Kevin H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted September 13, 2015 Administrators Share Posted September 13, 2015 God does not stop Loving he does not stop being who he is, But God does not approve of those who turn away from him, He pleads with them to turn back to Him and live. This is not a lack of love. And those who refuse to live will be given the fruit of their choices. It is against the will of God for any to die, but he accepts the decisions of those in His creation with free will. This is not a lack of love, but a deepening of the picture of love. it is the revelation of love that ripens all creation in preparation for an end to be graciously brought to all sin. I just don't see anything original in this but a repetition of what i have seen stands as eternal truth. And i see God bearing with the stink of sin in our natures that will not be done away with till we see Jesus when he comes. This is our blessed hope. Lineman 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeb Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I pretty much agree with you debbym. A God of love must set standards of behavior for His subjects. He must set lines that cannot be crossed for the good of ALL of His creation. He cannot allow one person in His creation to harm other persons without setting punishments for such behavior. Anything less is being less than just and loving to all. As such He cannot allow sin to remain a permanent institution in His creation. It must come to an end. Love demands it. That doesn't mean God stops loving those who willfully cross the lines of behavior that He has set up, and have no thought of ever stepping back across that line so that they will be within His will for all of His creation. Even the most degraded of us are still loved by God. Why? Because He knows what they could have been without sin and He still wishes that they desired that too. Quote Liberty cannot be established without morality, nor morality without faith.Alexis de Tocqueville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) [Read Romans 8:35,38] The only thing not mentioned is ourselves. For instance Judas separated himself from Christ's group. That said, God loves us ferociously and is a covenant person who hates divorce. It goes against everything that God is to lose a sheep. Its the sheep who get all doubting of His love and wander off. Edited October 2, 2015 by Tom Wetmore No quoting allowed here in Original Thoughts.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lineman Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 It seems to me that God's laws are not just a set of standards that He has set but that they are a short list of things based on LOVE that if followed correctly will allow us to live, kind of like adding the correct fuel to an engine. Problem is, we cannot follow this list correctly and so Jesus came to rescue us from the pit of sin we are in and the only way for us to live is to trust in Him totally. And dealing with the topic of sinners living and burning forever mentioned above, John 3:16 talks about only two choices: Live or perish. There will be only one or the other. God will take us back to Plan A, a life of joy and peace FOREVER! Sin and sinners will be no more, and sin will never rise again. If sinners are still alive then sin has not been destroyed. Back to the original question of God's love dying though, I agree that there is NOTHING that we can do that will change the fact that God loves us. And His love for us will not die just because we no longer exist. Even humans still love their dead pets, right? They are gone forever, not just sleeping. debbym and phkrause 2 Quote Visit and Share the BibleTimelines.com URL ! (Explain the Gospel in just a few minutes, or maybe even seconds.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Can I guess that the more underlying question is, why does God allow pain? Pain is very often considered verified proof of no-love. That's a hard question.. It looks.. God says I will take you out of the furnace at the very last moment, the baptism of fire, and the story of Job's pain, just among the so many others.. Pain is pain.. Many won't even be able to think under pain.. I think the main target of these is to see whether one is gonna give up or not.. So as long as never giving up.. That means passing the tests.. Quote Test me with thy might but grant me safe passage. Now, who said that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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