CFK1 Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 I just recently received yet another "warning" about The One Project. When I read the goals and mission statement of The One Project, I can't say anything but AMEN! Yet it baffles me why the "gathering" in San Diego in Februay features John Ortberg, senior pastor at Menlo Park Presbyterian Church, who, unless I've been misinformed, is part of the emergent church, contemplative prayer, spiritual formation, etc. movement. I would appreciate it if anyone has had experience with The One Project, or has any first hand information to share on this topic. Deroypart, Timothycure, Charlessr and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 John Ortberg is associated with the Emerging Church movement. But I think it's important to note that he has written extensively on "discipleship." And that's the topic he will be speaking on at The One Project in San Diego. Remember, someone can be an excellent guest speaker and provide very relevant information at a gathering without everyone being in agreement with *all* of the person's religious beliefs... (just my own opinion...) CoAspen 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFK1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 John Ortberg is associated with the Emerging Church movement. But I think it's important to note that he has written extensively on "discipleship." And that's the topic he will be speaking on at The One Project in San Diego. Remember, someone can be an excellent guest speaker and provide very relevant information at a gathering without everyone being in agreement with *all* of the person's religious beliefs... (just my own opinion...) Perhaps I've misunderstood Isa 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Or is it possible that it means that Mr. Ortberg's presentation on "discipleship" wouldn't be entirely without the influence of his "Emergent Church" experience? I would think that the SDA church also has someone who has written extensively on "discipleship" as well ... and could present it without questionable undertones. If the SDA church "actually" believes that the Emergent Church is part of "Babylon", why would it go to Babylon to learn anything? I'm sure the devil has written extensively on many subjects, too ... should it be an option to go to him for advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 CFK1, It's funny - I have just the opposite concern about Project One. I worry that they are just another clandestine SDA strategy to fill pews at SDA churches. I truly hope that they are part of the emergent church. The time has come for all Christians - including SDA's - to unite on those points that we have in common or experience further fragmentation and ultimate destruction. There are currently more than 50,000 Christian denominations on the planet. That can't possibly be what jesus had in mind. TheCodeMonk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 Perhaps I've misunderstood Isa 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Or is it possible that it means that Mr. Ortberg's presentation on "discipleship" wouldn't be entirely without the influence of his "Emergent Church" experience? I would think that the SDA church also has someone who has written extensively on "discipleship" as well ... and could present it without questionable undertones. If the SDA church "actually" believes that the Emergent Church is part of "Babylon", why would it go to Babylon to learn anything? I'm sure the devil has written extensively on many subjects, too ... should it be an option to go to him for advice? Ellen White was a Methodist before she had any sabbatarian notions.. if we use the idea that a Christian whose religious views differ somewhat from those of own should be ostracized from speaking at any SDA-sponsored function, we might be missing out on huge blessings... but if someone feels their spiritual life would be compromised by listening to any Christian speaker other than acknowledged SDAs, it would probably be best not to attend any function that is not 100% Adventist.. phkrause, JoeMo and Sojourner 3 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 Looking through the Word to find numerical preponderance as a clue for fulfillng the creator God's desires for His chosen, only leads me to believe a small remnant as compared to misleading doctrines of assertion, will at last be those who rise above the worldly gathering of mutual agreement. How many entered the promised land after 40 years in the wilderness? Two! How many were saved in the ark after the world flood? Eight? How many escaped from the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah? Three! Although there are vast amounts more population now than then, I don't think the collective mind of the human race is any different now than then, unless it is worse. Even though Jesus stated, 16"I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd....John 10 in comparison to the world population, only a remnant will enter the heavenly realm. 32"Remember Lot's wife. 33"Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.…Luke 17 I would suggest the safest course to follow is to make friends with Jesus, the closer the better. For those who don't know Him there is little hope for the future. …22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'...Matthew 7 emphasis theirs' LHC These words are probably the safest words we will ever hear, for now and for eternity. …14"You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15"No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you.16"You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17"This I command you, that you love one another.....John 15 That last defines the one project worth pursuing. God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 LHC, While I agree with your comments about the past results of divine intervention, prophecies of future divine interventions do not reflect the past. "And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel ...After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” ( Rev. 7:4; 9-10) Futhermore, the NT NEVER mentions a specific denomination. In fact, Paul seems to speak out against denominationalism: "I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Cor. 1:10-14) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFK1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 LHC, While I agree with your comments about the past results of divine intervention, prophecies of future divine interventions do not reflect the past. "And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel ...After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, and crying out with a loud voice, “Salvation belongs to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!” ( Rev. 7:4; 9-10) Futhermore, the NT NEVER mentions a specific denomination. In fact, Paul seems to speak out against denominationalism: "I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Cor. 1:10-14) I gree that it wasn't Jesus' idea to have hundreds of denominations polarizing because they hold hundreds of differet opinions about what it means to love and serve him and our fellowmen, but would you say that contemplative prayer, spiritual formation, etc. as practiced by the Emergent Church, is following Christ? Do you see no problems with the origin and concept of these practices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFK1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 Ellen White was a Methodist before she had any sabbatarian notions.. if we use the idea that a Christian whose religious views differ somewhat from those of own should be ostracized from speaking at any SDA-sponsored function, we might be missing out on huge blessings... but if someone feels their spiritual life would be compromised by listening to any Christian speaker other than acknowledged SDAs, it would probably be best not to attend any function that is not 100% Adventist.. I really don't see how the fact that Ellen White "was" a Methodist "before" she became a Seventh-day Adventist relates to asking someone with questionable spiritual practices to instruct us how to witness to others ... do we not "meddle in the affairs of dragons" when we seek to learn from their doctrine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 CFK1 asks: "would you say that contemplative prayer, spiritual formation, etc. as practiced by the Emergent Church, is following Christ? Do you see no problems with the origin and concept of these practices?" The short answer is yes; I think the emergent church movement is following Christ; and that I have no problems with these concepts and practices. The long answer is that the origins of many of the practices is with the Jewish and Christian churches. There are 17 Bible references to "meditiate"; 6 to "meditation", 118 to "vision", amd 96 references to "dreams" from God - all of which were important to the "dreamers". The Bible is the origin of these practices - the New Age and Easterm Mysticism stole them from God's people. If all these Bible folk practiced meditation (contemplative prayer), visions and dreams, I'm not gonna condemn it. If the emergent church leads to the unity of believers, bring it on! Sojourner 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted February 3, 2015 Members Share Posted February 3, 2015 How do you know the speaker will be trying to "teach doctrine"? Spiritual insights don't necessarily mean "doctrine".... do we not "meddle in the affairs of dragons" when we seek to learn from their doctrine? no JoeMo 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFK1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 How do you know the speaker will be trying to "teach doctrine"? Spiritual insights don't necessarily mean "doctrine".... no My concern doesn't center on whether or not the speaker will be trying to "teach doctrine." My concern is that if his "spiritual insights" are from the wrong "spirit", he has nothing of spiritual value to teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFK1 Posted February 3, 2015 Author Share Posted February 3, 2015 CFK1 asks: "would you say that contemplative prayer, spiritual formation, etc. as practiced by the Emergent Church, is following Christ? Do you see no problems with the origin and concept of these practices?" The short answer is yes; I think the emergent church movement is following Christ; and that I have no problems with these concepts and practices. The long answer is that the origins of many of the practices is with the Jewish and Christian churches. There are 17 Bible references to "meditiate"; 6 to "meditation", 118 to "vision", amd 96 references to "dreams" from God - all of which were important to the "dreamers". The Bible is the origin of these practices - the New Age and Easterm Mysticism stole them from God's people. If all these Bible folk practiced meditation (contemplative prayer), visions and dreams, I'm not gonna condemn it. If the emergent church leads to the unity of believers, bring it on! i would sincerely question that "the Bible is the origin" of the way these disciplines are practiced by the Emergent Church, but I apprecate your honest opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 i would sincerely question that "the Bible is the origin" of the way these disciplines are practiced by the Emergent Church, but I apprecate your honest opinion. Thanks, CFK; I appreciate your openess to dialogue! I see you're kinda new here; so a little background on me. I am a pretty liberal generic Adventist. I fully support most of the charismatic and emergent movement in the church. As a practitioner of meditative prayer and visualisation while praying, I can tell you that my meditation does not focus on "nothing"; it focuses on the Father, Son, Spirit, heaven, etc. It also focuses on letting prayer by a conversation ( I talk, then give God time to respond before i talk more) rather than list my "things for God to do" as my Divine Personal Assistant. I consider the content of those few dreams I remember for spiritual content (admittedly most dreams don't make that hurdle). I don't think it's fair for people to totally discount emergent church activity until they try them out. You can't take my or anyone else's word for it. Admittedly, it is outside of many people's comfort zone; and that's OK. I don't think the emergent church has any advantages or disadvantages to traditional Adventism. It all depends on where one finds his/her blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFK1 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Thanks, CFK; I appreciate your openess to dialogue! I see you're kinda new here; so a little background on me. I am a pretty liberal generic Adventist. I fully support most of the charismatic and emergent movement in the church. As a practitioner of meditative prayer and visualisation while praying, I can tell you that my meditation does not focus on "nothing"; it focuses on the Father, Son, Spirit, heaven, etc. It also focuses on letting prayer by a conversation ( I talk, then give God time to respond before i talk more) rather than list my "things for God to do" as my Divine Personal Assistant. I consider the content of those few dreams I remember for spiritual content (admittedly most dreams don't make that hurdle). I don't think it's fair for people to totally discount emergent church activity until they try them out. You can't take my or anyone else's word for it. Admittedly, it is outside of many people's comfort zone; and that's OK. I don't think the emergent church has any advantages or disadvantages to traditional Adventism. It all depends on where one finds his/her blessing. I've been a "silent" member of CA for quite a while ... may have made one or two comments in three or four years. From your description of the way you involve meditative prayer, visualization, etc. in your worship, I would say it differs a whole lot from what I have understood the teachings of Spiritual Formation to be. I applaud the goals and aims of The One Project ... my only concern is that it doesn't get subtly derailed. Thanks for sharing. JoeMo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 5, 2015 CFK1, in post # 3 said: Perhaps I've misunderstood Isa 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. It is true that: 1) The Word of God is the final authority. 2) That which is not in accord with the Word of God contains no light. However, in this life that we live, no human and no organization that has anything to do with humans, has some aspects in which they do not speak 100% in accord with the Word of God. That is part of the reason that salvation is required. CFK1, I can only assume that you do not actually believe, or would you practice, what you seem to have proposed: 1) Let me assume that you do not believe in abortion. Would you tell us that a Roman Catholic Bishop had no light in him when he advocated against abortion? Would you tell us that if such a Bishop spoke on abortion and the Christian had no light in him if he were speaking at a SDA organization? Would you tell us that we should not cooperate in any way with that Bishop in his stand against abortion? 2) The history of our "Temperance movement" shows the SDA Church and EGW working side by side with Sunday keepers. EGW spoke at their meetings and she advocated working with them. Surely you know our denominational history well enough that you will not ask that I supply you with such citations? 3) Throughout our history, to include my lifetime, many of our SDA members had thought very highly of Uriah Smith and what he wore on the books of Daniel and Revelation. Are you aware that much of what he wrote cam from Sunday keeping writers of his day? Would you tell us that Smith had no light in him? I think not. 4) Surely, if you know our history, during her lifetime, EGW had a library of books and other writings. Many of those materials were written by Sunday keeping people. If she would support what you would seem to say, why did she maintain those writings. As you may know, EGW edited a book of stories that were designed to be read to children. At one time it was titled "Sabbath Readings for the Home Circle." This book contained stories that EGW found on published materials from other authors. Those authors were mostly not SDAs. Some were well known writers and some were well known novelists who wrote works of fiction. EGW never claimed inspiration for them. Yet, she was responsible for their publication and circulation in SDA circles. It is clear that EGW did not take the position that you seem to take. 5) I will suggest that the weight of evidence demonstrates that the position that you seem to take is in error. So, by your own words, shall we say that there is no light in anything that you might tell us? That seems to be your position. If we ever show that you are in error on any spiritual point, should we say that there is not light in you? Are you telling us that you are 100% correct in everything that you might say? JoeMo 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 5, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 5, 2015 In post # !5, CFK1 aid: I applaud the goals and aims of The One Project ... my only concern is that it doesn't get subtly derailed. Fine. Let us not assume, without actual knowledge, that anyone is going to present error. phkrause and JoeMo 2 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 7, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2015 John Ortberg is an interesting person. He was the senior pastor in a Presbyterian so-called mega-church with a typical congregational attendance of over 4,000 each Sunday. [NOTE: I realize that figures that large will probably indicate to some that he could not be a follower of Christ as even in so-called "end-time" there would not be that many followers of Christ. Recently he has led his congregation to leave the Presbyterian denomination to which it belonged. His reasons for leading it out of that denomination were two-fold: a) Doctrinal differences and 'b) Administrative differences with Presbyterian policy. That congregation is paying a very large price to leave--some $9,000,000! They have agreed to pay that amount. Ortberg, and the congregation has made the decision to affiliate with the ECO. The Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians (ECO). ECO is a denominational entity under the umbrella of The Fellowship of Presbyterians that is committed to growing and planting flourishing churches and nurturing leaders. The distinctives of ECO include an emphasis on connecting leaders in accountable relationships, peer review systems for churches, leadership training, and a flatter polity structure than the PC(USA). The Fellowship offers three different options for affiliation so congregations can pursue what best honors their ministry context. The options are: affiliate with the Fellowship as a ministry association (involves no change in status with the PC(USA)); pursue a union membership with the PC(USA) and ECO; and join ECO as full members (requiring dismissal from the PC(USA). HIs teaching ministry is focused on making Christ a part of every aspect of our life. Sojourner 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 8, 2015 Share Posted February 8, 2015 Gregory, God bless you for making this information available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Perhaps I've misunderstood Isa 8:20 - To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Or is it possible that it means that Mr. Ortberg's presentation on "discipleship" wouldn't be entirely without the influence of his "Emergent Church" experience? I would think that the SDA church also has someone who has written extensively on "discipleship" as well ... and could present it without questionable undertones. If the SDA church "actually" believes that the Emergent Church is part of "Babylon", why would it go to Babylon to learn anything? I'm sure the devil has written extensively on many subjects, too ... should it be an option to go to him for advice? That's a very divisive "all-or-nothing" type of mentality that does really see the self-problem with the very issue it claims to confront. CFK1, do you think there is anything you MAY be wrong about when it comes to your interpretation of the Biblical narrative, dogma you adhere to, or anything else? If there is, then you'd fall in the same category... and that's the issue. If you can't confront and discuss these issue in the open forum, then you are merely assuming your own correctness without any prior criticism of your own position... something that you assume to be incontrovertably true because you believe it to be so. How would that be of any benefit to anyone? If everyone would take on such mentality, then world would be an utter self-referential chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2015 John Ortberg spent an hour in telling The One Project people that discipleship requires full obedience to Christ. I will comment more on his talk which extended well beyond one hour when I post in my church section. Charlessr, Timothycure and Vitezhish 3 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 12, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 12, 2015 John Ortberg spent the first half of his talk to The One Project telling them that discipleship requires obedience. I will say more when I post on TOP San Diego in the Church section that I moderate. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 13, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 13, 2015 My section on TOP, San Diego is now open for comment and discussion. I have not commented directly on John Ortberg, at this point in time. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Jeannieb43 Posted February 17, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2015 Where can I go to find out what this One Project is all about? I never heard of it before. Who started it? What do the members of One Project do? Quote Jeannie<br /><br /><br />...Change is inevitable; growth is optional.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 17, 2015 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2015 The following will give you a good start: https://the1project.org/ If you have any other questions, you can ask me. You might also read the thread that I have going in my Church Policy section. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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