bonnie Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 We don't do anything. I believe living a gay lifestyle is wrong.Not wrong for certain ones under specific circumstances.. Just plain wrong.An abomination,a deviant lifestyle. I have questioned your motives sine your first post ,more so after reading your flippant answers and trying to deflect responses to "those other sins". Nothing you have said has altered that opinion. A study of Sodom and Gommorah doesn't have any bearing on the Supreme Court decision or whether a gay lifestyle is just another acceptable lifestyle choice.Nor does it appear to be a sin Christ will wink at when He returns. You will continue to maintain your innocence in any subtle hidden agenda and there will be those that accept that. I don't and can certainly be wrong, Doesn't mean I hate you or consider you sub human. It does mean I believe the following regardless of anyone regardless of their profession,their liberal ideology or but God loves everyone mentality. No matter how you attempt to twist and shape this like a child does with silly putty it still says the same thing. Maybe to some it is antiquated and biased and properly understood homosexuality is not wrong,I will trust the old antiquated words of God over the "more enlightened minds" on this forum. "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22) "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them." (Leviticus 20:13) “ "Do you not know that the unrighteous will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God" Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, ... nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, ... will inherit the Kingdom of God. And such were some of you. ('Repent' means 'stop' and return to God and His Word) But you were washed (through the innocent blood of Jesus which was shed for our sins) But you were sanctified (means "set apart" ... all who will believe in Jesus are "set apart") But you were justified (justified means "just as if it had never happened ...") in the Name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) brotherly love 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Brotherly, What you have presented is a legitimate viewpoint taken mostly from human logic and denominational groupthink. The Bible doesn't explicitly support your view. It doesn't support mine, either. Your viewpoint is symbolic, mine is literal. Since Genesis is allegedly an historical book (as opposed to prophectic or poetic), I think a literal interpretation is reasonable. You mentioned Nephillim after the flood. Yes, there were. See Numbers13:33. How do you support your conclusion that my viewpoint is just human logic and denominational group think? You have put forth an unsubstantiated strawman argument. Yet do this yet again in such a short post with the insinuation that I read the narrative as not being historical because I somehow use a symbolic approach compared to your literal approach. Can you please show me were I have communicated that this is not a historical narrative? You mentioned your literal meaning, but this is ironic since you imposed "demons" into the text when demons are not even mentioned in Genesis 6, nor in the previous chapters leading up to Genesis 6. The rebellious unbelievers of chapter 4 and the faithful believers of chapter 5 are mentioned though, leading up to chapter 6. You wrote: Since Genesis is allegedly an historical book (as opposed to prophectic or poetic This statement makes no sense, in order to make this claim you would have to assume that a historical narrative could not include poetry, nor be prophetic. Despite this, I am exegeting the meaning of the text, and historical narratives were written with a message in mind, not just for personal leisure I am reading the text literally. bonnie and phkrause 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 It does mean I believe the following regardless of anyone regardless of their profession,their liberal ideology or but God loves everyone mentality. No matter how you attempt to twist and shape this like a child does with silly putty it still says the same thing. Maybe to some it is antiquated and biased and properly understood homosexuality is not wrong,I will trust the old antiquated words of God over the "more enlightened minds" on this forum. "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination." (Leviticus 18:22) Very clear verses bonnie! What the Biblical minimalist will attempt to do with the above passage is try to convince those who want to hear that it is not about loving monogamous same sex sexuality, but it is about cultic and promiscuous same sex sexuality. This idea falls flat in context as you are well aware of. This next passage would have to be argued away also in Lev 18 “‘No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the Lord. and “‘Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do not have sexual relations with either her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness. and “‘Do not have sexual relations with an animal and defile yourself with it. A woman must not present herself to an animal to have sexual relations with it; that is a perversion. A person would have to argue that these texts also would only be applicable in religious cultic practices, or acceptable if they were loving and committed relationships The question still has to be asked as to why God prohibits not only same sex sexuality, but all these other acts, once we know why, then lots of subjects from the Bible will fall into place and easier to defend phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Bro, Like I said in my previous message, the whole demon angel sex and hybrid race thing is NOT what I believe; it's just a fairly feasible interpretation. Believe it or not, there are large groups of people that believe that theory with all their hearts. It's like where do you get that the daughters of men were the offspring of Cain; and that the sons of God were the offspring of Seth or Enoch? Where do you get that the strange flesh that people were after was gay/lesbian sex? (I think it was you that said something like that.) I could find no reference to to any of those things in Genesis 1 - 20. It seems like Lot's family was a little twisted - daughters who get their dad drunk so they can have sex (e.g., get pregnant) with him? A little weird. Yet God found it OK to save Lot's family, even if it was by dragging them out of town kicking and screaming. So why couldn't God do the same thing for other people who may be a little twisted in a different way when those people seek Him in spite of their issues? Aren't we supposed to come to God just as we are, whether it be addicted to drugs or porn or gambling, a drunk, gay, a hopeless gossip, or a pig-eater? If we put our trust and perseverance into a relationship with God, He will deal with our issues one by one on His priority list - not ours - as He sees fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Bro, Like I said in my previous message, the whole demon angel sex and hybrid race thing is NOT what I believe; it's just a fairly feasible interpretation. Believe it or not, there are large groups of people that believe that theory with all their hearts. It's like where do you get that the daughters of men were the offspring of Cain; and that the sons of God were the offspring of Seth or Enoch? Where do you get that the strange flesh that people were after was gay/lesbian sex? (I think it was you that said something like that.) I could find no reference to to any of those things in Genesis 1 - 20. It seems like Lot's family was a little twisted - daughters who get their dad drunk so they can have sex (e.g., get pregnant) with him? A little weird. Yet God found it OK to save Lot's family, even if it was by dragging them out of town kicking and screaming. So why couldn't God do the same thing for other people who may be a little twisted in a different way when those people seek Him in spite of their issues? Aren't we supposed to come to God just as we are, whether it be addicted to drugs or porn or gambling, a drunk, gay, a hopeless gossip, or a pig-eater? If we put our trust and perseverance into a relationship with God, He will deal with our issues one by one on His priority list - not ours - as He sees fit. The bible conveys it as the offspring of Cain, and the offspring Seth, but what the text is trying to convey is those who are faithful and loyal to God and those who are in opposition to God. The term sons of God can also be stated as "children of God"-those who follow Him and identify with Him. In chapter 5, the text comes right out and repeats the creation blessing given to Adam in Genesis chapter 1. This is the written account of Adam’s family line. When God created mankind, he made them in the likeness of God. 2 He created them male and female and blessed them. And he named them “Mankind”[a] when they were created. 3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he had a son in his own likeness, in his own image; and he named him Seth. 1.Notice that the text re-states that Adam was made in the image of God, then Seth is made in the image of Adam. This shows that the line of Seth through Adam is the sons of god, or the children of God-in His likeness 2. Notice that the creation blessing is again restated. The Godly line of Seth is attributed with the repeated term "had other sons and daughters" The Hebrew contrast is in motion here, and chapter 5 is written to be read in contrast to chapter 4. I can keep going on, and identify the daughters of man if you wish. I can keep going and identify the strange flesh also, but one step at a time bonnie and phkrause 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 It seems like Lot's family was a little twisted - daughters who get their dad drunk so they can have sex (e.g., get pregnant) with him? A little weird. Yet God found it OK to save Lot's family, even if it was by dragging them out of town kicking and screaming. So why couldn't God do the same thing for other people who may be a little twisted in a different way when those people seek Him in spite of their issues? Aren't we supposed to come to God just as we are, whether it be addicted to drugs or porn or gambling, a drunk, gay, a hopeless gossip, or a pig-eater? If we put our trust and perseverance into a relationship with God, He will deal with our issues one by one on His priority list - not ours - as He sees fit. The message generally follows Genesis 4 and 5. The comparison is between Abraham and Lot. Lot chose a different path than abraham, and the consequences were great for his family. He went to Sodom for wealth and prosperity, but he left penniless living in a cave with his sons in law and wife dead. Lots daughters were also twisted from the pagan influence on them, and took matters into their own hands instead of trusting God. A woman in the ancoient times was in great trouble with out an heir-they did not trust God, but trusted in themselves The effects were the Moabites who were in constant conflict with the children of God. despite this, the lineage of Jesus would be through a Moabite woman of faith and charactor-Ruth was the grandmother of king David. bonnie and phkrause 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Two deflections you actually see Bonnie. 1.I am stressing the more important matters (as I see it from my understanding from study of the Bible).. and I am trying to get across to every one on this matter. Not a deflection 2. Responding very kindly to someone misquoting and misrepresenting and personal attacks that go from how/why/words I write to my standing before God. I am doing the best I can . . talk about deflection! Jesus had boundaries. If you are so inclined to look up JESUS responses to people. It looks a lot like deflection when really He is going to the more important issues. God Bless you Bonnie I get warm thoughts when I see your name for two reasons 1. I have a cherished friend with that name, who is an ultra ultra conservative Christian in every way and her Facebook shows it. And I know she is more than our disagreements cause I know her in person (face to face) since we were kids in out in the country. 2. Every time time I see your name I think of what your name means ..BEAUTIFUL! As time goes on your name will mean perhaps another wonderful thing to me. We will see. bonnie.and brotherly love and maybe a few others, What I will say will be very direct and very kind. I think we see this Forum differently. Perhaps you see this thread as I am beholden to you to answer any and all questions (hence more than one post regarding me deflecting.) Is that written down somewhere here? I should really really look it up. hmmm.. MUST I ANSWER ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS BY BONNIE AND BROTHERLY LOVE ? NO? .. they think I should...maybe I should get a nightlight poster and put it up And I definitely see this thread as a place to share my opinions,understandings, and experiences, theology etc.. I think that is one of the reasons for this website. And somewhere in the mist we meet together on these things Seeing very differently but still respectful. My lifestyle my choices my theology my current church membership or my intent or or even my standing before THE LORD is not up to a debate//speculation by you.all. Of course you can assume and imagine and second guess and surmise and criticize and speculate all you want here in front of me or behind the scenes,about any of this.. But that kind of egging on or whatever you want to call it .. will not to cause me rescue my reputation. What I say is what I want to say It is called boundaries. And,of course, you all can say what you all say here. It goes both ways. And all of that and my quote on top is my answer to all your questions regarding my agenda!. I will not be responding any differently to those who pursue this on this thread. God's greatest Blessings to all! Edited May 6, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 maybe a few others,My lifestyle my choices my theology my current church membership or my intent or or even my standing before THE LORD is not up to a debate//speculation by you.all.God's greatest Blessings to all! Because this forum is known as the Unofficial Club Adventist, I would expect anyone joining the conversation would expect there to be far more comments reflecting the influence of the Holy Bible as led by the Holy Spirit, as opposed to touting lifestyles that don't reflect holy living. Just as a for instance, I happen to be a vegetarian as a direct result of paying attention to what is often called the Lord's prayer. …9"Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. 11'Give us this day our daily bread.…Matthew 6 Now since I know this will raise some eyebrows re: my reasoning, I know there is not going to be any death in heaven. Therefore to eat flesh which often can include a sport involving pleasure in killing some creature, many years ago it seemed incongruous to enjoy the critters for eating that God put within our care. However since the Holy Bible is not something with numerous interpretations, I couldn't see myself pursuing it if I depended on something more than men's opinions. 15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him...John 14 13"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.…John 16 There's no doubt in my mind, depending on His leading will lead anyone to eventually follow in the same path with all His followers. …4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.…Ephesians 5 Keep looking up! God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Bro, Where do you get that the strange flesh that people were after was gay/lesbian sex? (I think it was you that said something like that.) I could find no reference to to any of those things in Genesis 1 - 20. You must have me mixed up with someone else about strange flesh and sodom-but since we are on the topic The word for strange flesh would be from the book of Jude (heteros) so you will not find this named specifically in Genesis 1-20 because it is a Greek word. it is a strange translation because the word heteros means "other" and sarx means "flesh" If you are wondering where it states the people wanted gay sex, here is the passage Genesis 19:4-5 4 Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5 They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.” Typically, when men desire sex with other men, this would be the description of homosexuality. The gay agenda will have you believe that the sin is desiring angelic flesh, not same sex desires. This is of little help to the gay activist trying to promote a gay covenant marriage on the faithful. The townsmen did not know they were angels because they appeared as men, they did not demand that Lot bring out the angels. Lets go to Jude 1:7 and the "strange flesh" comment In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire. The surrounding towns that were wicked and were to be destroyed was actually 5 towns Deuteronomy 29:23 It will be like the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboyim, which the Lord overthrew in fierce anger. The 5th town listed to be destroyed along with the 4 other towns was Zoar. It was spared because Lot pleaded with the men to spare it so he could find refuge there and not in the mountains. The townsmen who came to rape Lots guests were from Sodom. In order to harmonize the angelic sex proposition, a person would have to believe that the sexual immorality and perversion (or strange flesh) of Jude 1:7 was that the 5 towns had a taste for angelic sex. This hardly corresponds with reality. Was this a fad sexual phase that swept the region? Where in the bible is there a law prohibiting sex with angels? The plain facts are none can be found because it does not correspond to biblical realities. Plain and simple The sin of Sodom and the surrounding cities is listed as them "giving themselves up to sexual immorality" this is in the past tense, and this was already in full swing before chapter 19 (genesis 13:13). Their sexual cup had spilled over, and judgment came. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) LifeHiscost: Because this forum is known as the Unofficial Club Adventist, I would expect anyone joining the conversation would expect there to be far more comments reflecting the influence of the Holy Bible as led by the Holy Spirit, as opposed to touting lifestyles that don't reflect holy living. Just as a for instance, I happen to be a vegetarian as a direct result of paying attention to what is often called the Lord's prayer. …9"Pray, then, in this way: 'Our Father who is in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. 10'Your kingdom come. Your will be done, On earth as it is in heaven. 11'Give us this day our daily bread.…Matthew 6 Now since I know this will raise some eyebrows re: my reasoning, I know there is not going to be any death in heaven. Therefore to eat flesh which often can include a sport involving pleasure in killing some creature, many years ago it seemed incongruous to enjoy the critters for eating that God put within our care. However since the Holy Bible is not something with numerous interpretations, I couldn't see myself pursuing it if I depended on something more than men's opinions. 15"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; 17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him...John 14 13"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. 14"He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you.…John 16 There's no doubt in my mind, depending on His leading will lead anyone to eventually follow in the same path with all His followers. …4There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.…Ephesians 5 Keep looking up! God is Love! Jesus saves! My lifestyle my choices my theology my current church membership or my intent or or even my standing before THE LORD is not up to a debate//speculation by you.all. Of course you can assume and imagine and second guess and surmise and criticize and speculate all you want here in front of me or behind the scenes,about any of this.. But that kind of egging on or whatever you want to call it .. will not to cause me rescue my reputation. -Gay Well I am expecting comments reflecting the influence of the Holy Bible as led by the Holy Spirit.. Thank God a few people are kinder more reflecting The Holy Spirit behind the scenes here. Who do get what I am saying In the front line where we see posts here ...uhhh Stranger's who do mean well do not convey they know what I am saying...uhh I will just let me stop right there. And thru my direct influence my Son is 100% Vegan. In all it's Purity.Not even using animal products of any kind in lip balm or clothes.I am not that strict . my quote is from LifeHiscost i donot know how bonnie name was added..I am sure i did that somehow.. still new at this Edited May 6, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 Fri Jan 09, 2015 at 06:57 AM PST Marriage equality is back in court, with a lot on the line by Laura ClawsonFollow 31 Comments / 31 New How long before we see scenes like this in Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi?The nation's most conservative federal appeals court is hearing arguments Friday for and against marriage equality in three conservative southern states: Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi. On the very same day, the Supreme Court will consider whether to take a marriage case that could determine whether the 5th Circuit's decision—for or against equality—will ultimately stand.All three states in the 5th Circuit have already seen decisions from federal district judges, with one standing out: Judges in Texas and Mississippi have ruled same-sex marriage bans unconstitutional, but a judge in Louisiana upheld such a law. The three states, seeking to keep their discriminatory laws on the books, have the typical arguments about states' rights meaning the right to discriminate and it being in the state's interest to limit marriage to opposite-sex couples because babies. Meanwhile, these laws are making life difficult for actual families and their babies. In Louisiana, Jackie and Lauren Brettner's right to take their daughter on a trip to Panama was challenged by airport security: "He wanted a copy of a birth certificate that showed us as parents," said Jackie, recalling their encounter with a security agent at Louis Armstrong International Airport. "He said he couldn't let us leave with her without permission from her father."The Brettners' daughter was conceived by artificial insemination, and Lauren gave birth in 2013. The couple were married in New York in 2012, but the Louisiana Registrar will not issue a birth certificate that lists two parents of the same sex. Louisiana law also bars Jackie from adopting a child born to Lauren, as a male stepfather might do for his wife's child. Getting on the plane required convincing the agent, with a sheaf of documents including their sperm donor contract and other records, that there was no father able -- or necessary - to give permission for their daughter to leave the country, and that Jackie and Lauren were her sole parents. In the longer term, the Supreme Court will pretty much have to be the decider on this one. Even if the 5th Circuit surprises us with a pro-equality decision, the 6th Circuit has already broken with the four other appeals courts to have decided marriage cases, by upholding bans in Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio, and Tennessee. That puts it on the Supreme Court to settle the split. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/09/1356593/-Marriage-equality-is-back-in-court-with-a-lot-on-the-line now back on Topic Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 bonnie.and brotherly love and maybe a few others, What I will say will be very direct and very kind. I think we see this Forum differently. Perhaps you see this thread as I am beholden to you to answer any and all questions (hence more than one post regarding me deflecting.) Is that written down somewhere here? I should really really look it up. hmmm.. MUST I ANSWER ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS BY BONNIE AND BROTHERLY LOVE ? NO? .. they think I should...maybe I should get a nightlight poster and put it up There really isn't much that is direct about your statements.I don't believe I have asked you to answer any and all personal questions. Please list them if you can. When I said you were deflecting it was not in reference to any questions. Makes me think of my boys when they were small. I have four boys,the first three quite close in age.It was not uncommon for them to play this same game. If one found himself in trouble the first thing he did was decide what we really needed to talk about was the far worse sins of his brothers. The one in trouble knew he had done something wrong but that certainly could be winked at if we only understood how much worse his brothers were. My lifestyle my choices my theology my current church membership or my intent or or even my standing before THE LORD is not up to a debate//speculation by you.all. Of course you can assume and imagine and second guess and surmise and criticize and speculate all you want here in front of me or behind the scenes,about any of this.. But that kind of egging on or whatever you want to call it .. will not to cause me rescue my reputation. I will not be responding any differently to those who pursue this on this thread. God's greatest Blessings to all! I have not asked what your lifestyle choices are.,I frankly don't care as I can not do anything about it one way or another..Where the problem comes in is others,you know,"those other Christians"must agree with you and "gay marriage" or somehow we are discriminating against you and are unloving. Your acceptence spiel goes only one way brotherly love and phkrause 2 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 If one found himself in trouble the first thing he did was decide what we really needed to talk about was the far worse sins of his brothers. The one in trouble knew he had done something wrong but that certainly could be winked at if we only understood how much worse his brothers were. It is really common to hear that police shouldn't be out catching speeders because there are people out there doing much worse. One really good example is the drug enforcement. People are always going on about how it is a "victimless" crime and shouldn't be enforced. Tell that to the 50,000 people in Mexico who have been murdered by the drug cartels. However, some police officers take the position that if they control the petty violations, it will decrease the bigger violations. What is now apparent in this society is there is little respect for the law and even organizational rules from the president on down. The current POTUS says if congress won't pass what he wants he will do it with his pen or telephone. This shows a lack of respect for the law and is lawlessness. You can even see it in the church when a division does something that has been clearly voted down in prior general conferences. That again is lawlessness. From 2 Thessalonians 2: The Man of Sin…7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming;9that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders,… All these things happening are just another symptom of the state of things leading to the final acts of lawlessness against God and heaven. Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted May 6, 2015 Author Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) I have not asked what your lifestyle choices are.,I frankly don't care as I can not do anything about it one way or another..Where the problem comes in is others,you know,"those other Christians"must agree with you and "gay marriage" or somehow we are discriminating against you and are unloving. Your acceptence spiel goes only one way dear bonnie, GBU! On page three of this thread I said we cannot compel the conscience. In other words,I believe, that if a Minister feels it is wrong to perform a gay wedding(or any particular wedding) he or she has a right to bow out. Maybe you missed that or I wasn't clear enough. I do apologize for that. I think the posts were numbered before the new walls and decor here. Maybe I don't see it? and BTW JoeMo if you are here ..I put up the Sodom City thread in the theological town hall 'When I hear the Story of Sodom' Edited May 6, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Fri Jan 09, 2015 at 06:57 AM PST Marriage equality is back in court, with a lot on the line by Laura ClawsonFollow 31 Comments / 31 New How long befThe three states, seeking to keep their discriminatory laws on the books, have the typical arguments about states' rights meaning the right to discriminate and it being in the state's interest to limit marriage to opposite-sex couples because babies. Meanwhile, these laws are making life difficult for actual families and their babies. In Louisiana, Jackie and Lauren Brettner's right to take their daughter on a trip to Panama was challenged by airport security:In the longer term, the Supreme Court will pretty much have to be the decider on this one. Even if the 5th Circuit surprises us with a pro-equality decision, the 6th Circuit has already broken with the four other appeals courts to have decided marriage cases, by upholding bans in Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio, and Tennessee. That puts it on the Supreme Court to settle the split. http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/01/09/1356593/-Marriage-equality-is-back-in-court-with-a-lot-on-the-line now back on Topic First of all, the headline of "equality" is misleading. it sets the stage that a person who opposes gay marriage is anti-equality. Secondly, the example given here about the airport problem is also misleading. if the problem rests on listing two parents to get a birth certificate, then many women who have one night stands and dont know who the father is are out of luck also. Sounds like she got caught in trying to make a political statement. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Gay, Ten-Four on the Sodom City thread. I will cease commenting about that here. I find your posts quite tasteful and enlightening. Contrary to what some others may think, I find no "gay agenda" in them other than an attempt to educate those here about reconciling what I believe to be a genetic predisposition with a relationship with God. Being accepted by a man-made church is meaningless; being accepted by the King of the Universe is what matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) dear bonnie, GBU! On page three of this thread I said we cannot compel the conscience. In other words,I believe, that if a Minister feels it is wrong to perform a gay wedding(or any particular wedding) he or she has a right to bow out. Maybe you missed that or I wasn't clear enough. I do apologize for that. I think the posts were numbered before the new walls and decor here. Maybe I don't see it? and BTW JoeMo if you are here ..I put up the Sodom City thread in the theological town hall 'When I hear the Story of Sodom' No I didn't miss it nor did I miss following posts which go right back to "those Christians" in a non complimentary tone. It is repeated in Sodom and Gomorrah thread. Nor did you explain or refer to Perhaps you see this thread as I am beholden to you to answer any and all questions (hence more than one post regarding me deflecting.) Is that written down somewhere here? I should really really look it up. hmmm.. MUST I ANSWER ANY AND ALL QUESTIONS BY BONNIE AND BROTHERLY LOVE ? NO? .. they think I should...maybe I should get a nightlight poster and put it up I would very much like to see the intrusive questions that I have put to you and where I have given any indication I think you should. Edited May 6, 2015 by bonnie Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 (edited) Gay, Ten-Four on the Sodom City thread. I will cease commenting about that here. I find your posts quite tasteful and enlightening. Contrary to what some others may think, I find no "gay agenda" in them other than an attempt to educate those here about reconciling what I believe to be a genetic predisposition with a relationship with God. Being accepted by a man-made church is meaningless; being accepted by the King of the Universe is what matters. I am not sure what you are saying here. reconciling what I believe to be a genetic predisposition with a relationship with God. Being accepted by a man-made church is meaningless; being accepted by the King of the Universe is what matters. Do you believe the prohibition against homosexual lifestyle/marriage is man made by the SDA denomination? Or is the SDA denomination reaffirming what God said? Do you believe that those engaging in this practice at the time Christ returns will have eternal life? That goes for all behaviors God has said will not have eternal life. Edited May 6, 2015 by bonnie Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Do you believe the prohibition against homosexual lifestyle/marriage is man made by the SDA denomination? Or is the SDA denomination reaffirming what God said? Do you believe that those engaging in this practice at the time Christ returns will have eternal life? That goes for all behaviors God has said will not have eternal life. Answering your questions in order - No, Yes, Doesn't matter what I believe; it's God's call. There is a difference between being sexually attracted to people of the same gender and acting on that attraction; just like there is a difference between being sexually attracted to people of the opposite gender and acting on that attraction. I'm attracted to lots of women; but I only act on that attraction with my wife. Believe it or not, there are plenty of Christians (even pastors) who are attracted to people the same gender (or both genders); but restrain themselves from acting on it out of a desire to honor God and their body temple. How do I know? We have a few in our congregation. For the record, your questions misrepresent what I said. What I was trying to say was that right or wrong, the opinion of the SDA church (or any otherdenomination) about a person is immaterial. What is important is the opinion of God towards that person. I'm confident that we will be surprised to see the "respected and godly" people that didn't make it to the Kingdom; and even more surprised about the "twisted filth" that did make it. I'm confident that the "respected and godly" leaders of Judaism thought they were sending Jesus straight to hell when they executed Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Answering your questions in order - No, Yes, Doesn't matter what I believe; it's God's call. There is a difference between being sexually attracted to people of the same gender and acting on that attraction; just like there is a difference between being sexually attracted to people of the opposite gender and acting on that attraction. I'm attracted to lots of women; but I only act on that attraction with my wife. Believe it or not, there are plenty of Christians (even pastors) who are attracted to people the same gender (or both genders); but restrain themselves from acting on it out of a desire to honor God and their body temple. How do I know? We have a few in our congregation. For the record, your questions misrepresent what I said. What I was trying to say was that right or wrong, the opinion of the SDA church (or any otherdenomination) about a person is immaterial. What is important is the opinion of God towards that person. I'm confident that we will be surprised to see the "respected and godly" people that didn't make it to the Kingdom; and even more surprised about the "twisted filth" that did make it. I'm confident that the "respected and godly" leaders of Judaism thought they were sending Jesus straight to hell when they executed Him. I didn't say an attraction,I said practicing lifestyles that God has forbidden No I didn't misrepresent what you said. I asked what you meant by man made VS what God has said. I didn't know so rather than assume I asked. Sorry if you were offended by that. I don't have any problem believing that there will be some surprising people in heaven and some surprises as to who is not there. Is this so much about what the church believes about a person or those that are living a lifestyle not compatible with what God says? brotherly love 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Gay, Ten-Four on the Sodom City thread. I will cease commenting about that here. I find your posts quite tasteful and enlightening. Contrary to what some others may think, I find no "gay agenda" in them other than an attempt to educate those here about reconciling what I believe to be a genetic predisposition with a relationship with God. Being accepted by a man-made church is meaningless; being accepted by the King of the Universe is what matters. you are blurring the subject-just like gay at the cross. The problem is with promoting harmonizing the practicing gay lifestyle with following God. As i mentioned before, my wife is more involved with this than myself. She has a lesbian friend who is struggling with this and there is one lady who is her weakness. They stay apart for quite some time, but when her love interest breaks up with another girlfriend and calls her-sometimes she gives in to temptation. It has been a few years now Despite her weakness, she does not try to harmonize her passions with following God-she repents and questions whether God will accept her sin and whether she will spend eternity with Him. This is clear indicator that she is a follower of God and is saved. What i keep reading here is the minimization of a persons sin. this is not evidence of following God phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Is this so much about what the church believes about a person or those that are living a lifestyle not compatible with what God says? No, this thread is supposed to be about the Supreme Court hearing arguments about gay marriage. We are absolutely off-topic here. That being the case, I'm pretty much done with this specific thread until the Supreme Court makes some sort of judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 The problem is with promoting harmonizing the practicing gay lifestyle with following God. As i mentioned before, my wife is more involved with this than myself. She has a lesbian friend who is struggling with this and there is one lady who is her weakness. They stay apart for quite some time, but when her love interest breaks up with another girlfriend and calls her-sometimes she gives in to temptation. It has been a few years now Despite her weakness, she does not try to harmonize her passions with following God-she repents and questions whether God will accept her sin and whether she will spend eternity with Him. This is clear indicator that she is a follower of God and is saved. What i keep reading here is the minimization of a persons sin. this is not evidence of following God No one here is promoting a gay life style; everyone here agrees that gay activity is a sin. What (IMO) is being promoted is acceptance and encouragement of those who are attracted to the same gender but wish to avoid the life style out of honor and respect for God. The story about your wife's freind is a good example of what I'm talking about. I'm glad you agree that she is saved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 No one here is promoting a gay life style; everyone here agrees that gay activity is a sin. What (IMO) is being promoted is acceptance and encouragement of those who are attracted to the same gender but wish to avoid the life style out of honor and respect for God. The story about your wife's freind is a good example of what I'm talking about. I'm glad you agree that she is saved. No, this thread is supposed to be about the Supreme Court hearing arguments about gay marriage. We are absolutely off-topic here. That being the case, I'm pretty much done with this specific thread until the Supreme Court makes some sort of judgement. Sounds like worth the move for some. Threads gravitate. Just not replying to the off topic would seem to meet the need. God is ove! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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