Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted April 29, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2015 Gay, there are probably few of us here in this forum who have walked in your shoes and can fully understand what your life is about. Welcome to this forum. We app0reciate you being here and this spirit in which you come. We may differ with you on some of our understandings of Biblical truth and its application to our lives. Please bear with us. We are defective and marred by sin. God alone is imperfect. Regardless of anything else, God loves you as much as God loves us. Some of issues and decisions that are expressed here are not ours to make but belong to God alone who will make them. Our desire is that in your spiritual journey in this forum, we will be able to be of help to you and a safe place for you to come. We in turn may learn from you lessons that we do not even know God would want us to learn. May the blessings of the Lord rest upon you. GayatfootofCross and aka 2 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 There should be a bright line somewhere in this matter. Gay couples have a right to happiness and fulfillment; but people of faith have an obligation to honor their faith. The market should be able to decide. There is so much stink about Christians refusing service for gay weddings, try getting a Muslim bakery to do it. If a gay couple can't get adequate service from one business, there is likely a business across the street that will gladly accomodate them. As a business owner, I doubt that I would refuse service to a gay couple. But if I was a pastor, I doubt if I could perform a marriage ceremony for them. But that's me; and I don't draw that line for anyone but myself. LGBTIQAA's have the right to be treated like everyone else; but should they be given the same special status as minority ethnic groups or disabled people? On the other hand, there are plenty of sins out there, Christians (and society) tend to put more emphasis on certain sins than on others. Singling out LGBTIQAA is unjust. Would a bakery refuse service to a gossip, or a couple who had been "living in sin" who were gonna get married? Would an SDA institution refuse service to those infidel Sunday-Keepers? Where's the line? Should there even be a line? If so, should that line be in the same place for everyone? GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 On the other hand, there are plenty of sins out there, Christians (and society) tend to put more emphasis on certain sins than on others. Singling out LGBTIQAA is unjust. Would a bakery refuse service to a gossip, or a couple who had been "living in sin" who were gonna get married? Would an SDA institution refuse service to those infidel Sunday-Keepers? Where's the line? Should there even be a line? If so, should that line be in the same place for everyone? Maybe the emphasis on this sin is because this is the one that others are asked to treat in a manner that goes against their personal religious belief. If the couple living in sin asked to have someone provide services or product for celebrating "living in sin" I believe the bakers in question would refuse as well. If they are asked to provide for a marriage between the two that is quite different. The marriage takes care of the "sin". Have you heard of anyone being asked to accommodate a celebration of a gossip? A SDA institution should have every right to refuse service if being asked to accommodate something against their religious belief. Providing a needed service to someone hungry,in need of medical etc is not quite the same as celebrating Sunday services as just another God ordained choice LGBTIQAA are singled out because of their own choosing. There are any number of businesses that don't have a problem accommodating LGBTIQAA ,those are not the ones they choose. Would gay bakers willingly provide services and or product proclaiming a anti gay bias? I think not. Businesses have to be very careful even having contact with those that are opposed to LGBTIQAA lifestyles. Their businesses are boycotted and they suffer financial loss. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 I do a lot of personalized t-shirts for people. I have been asked for some very questionable,disturbing sayings on adult and baby clothing. I refuse those that go against my moral and religious beliefs. I have turned down "Gays should be shot" as well as Gay,try it you will like it" " Divorce Celebrate Liberation" Those are the milder messages I have been asked to provide. A request for a baby T-shirt was celebrating two mommies,another one requested "My mommy has bigger boobs than yours" Should anyone be able to force me to provide what I feel is wrong? There are numerous places that will do whatever they are asked. I have done wedding T-s and anniversary T-s for traditional couples. I do not and will not do so for gay weddings or anniversary. So does that make me a self righteous hypocrite or am I trying to enforce my religious beliefs on others? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court will hear arguments next week in a landmark case on gay marriage, but most Americans already have made up their minds: There’s no turning back. The supreme court heard the arguments yesterday and will decide for gay rights in June. The press seems to think it will be a close call, but I suspect a more unanimous ruling. The issue has become a matter of "popular opinion" rather than a matter of morality. Thus the church that is to be a hospital for sinners, who long to be saints; has become a convalescent center for the incurably ill. But God will not be mocked. His word has never been left to man's opinion. Though pharisees and Sadducees have had their views trump all others for a time, God has always found a way to put His point of view in the forefront where it needs to be. Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 On the other hand, there are plenty of sins out there, Christians (and society) tend to put more emphasis on certain sins than on others. Singling out LGBTIQAA is unjust. Would a bakery refuse service to a gossip, or a couple who had been "living in sin" who were gonna get married? Would an SDA institution refuse service to those infidel Sunday-Keepers? Where's the line? Should there even be a line? If so, should that line be in the same place for everyone? Ah yes! Where is the line? Hello, JoeMo again! The list of sins is long and some people find some sins abhorrent and it offends their delicate sensibilities. If you see a Sinner you can be sure they sin. Ahh But what kind of sin? Can I guess? perhaps. Is it loud? Is it proud? Are they proud of having pride? Can I let them in my house? Are they thieves? Will they take my cutlery? Are they also Murderers? Will they use my own wedding present cutlery on me? Do they gossip? What would happen if they told everyone at church my cutlery is way too pricey and I should have used that money to send to missionaries to spread The Good News. Must I now have to get everyone who Judged me ( a common evil lifestyle choice ,if there was ever) at Church, that I didn't buy it! "IT WAS A GIFT! I swear!" Yes the List of sins is long. And we as Sinners must have sins we like and don't like on others. How could I spend time with my family or God when I'm constantly woodworking (building for the sake of building). Or always being on the Internet? (yes I said it). Having little gods before the Real God is one of the worst things ever. and we don't bat an eye. Forget about two adult people in love wanting their relationship to be given dignity and respect that it deserves (just like your relationships). OH yes, that's where we draw the line! Folks! Us Good Christians We Don't realize that when you take away dignity and respect for people's own personal choices that it ,in fact, blocks the Kingdom of God. God holds us Christians to a higher standard whenever others are involved. To not to lord over them -Matt 20:25-26. To love on the good people and the bad people and to bless Like Your Heavenly Father -Matt 5:45. In order for the wicked to see you are indeed worthy to be called the children of GOD ..We would reflect HIM in all our ways of dealing with them. Showing them what is our gracious kind God we serve. This is the Love that spreads the Gospel. God is relational and you see that in Paul. He knew those people (churches) he wrote to. He was there for the conversions etc. He asks that we ,The Church to be like HIM If we are in relationship with GOD we WILL be like HIM We wouldn't be able to help ourselves! In relationship we share our correction.In relationship we share our concerns. In relationships we warn.Not standing across the street yelling with signs or even by voting against the most personal choices others make. We are not their parents (well some are )and they do not answer to us strangers. We all answer to GOD-Did i do everything in my power to Show them JESUS? God is using us (lil Christs) to reconcile God to them. If only the people in our wonderful church can see what damage we are doing to God's reputation in all of this. Our job is to teach all nations about what Wondrous Love is This oh my oh my soul. Not how abhorrent they are to us. JoeMo 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 We are not asked to help celebrate or provide anything for murderer's, thieves ,gossips,there is a difference. From what you have posted it appears the only way to be considered a "good christian" is to accept what is demanded and concur. Perhaps the gay community should also do that in accepting what others believe. Has there been something said to you that leads you to believe that any other sin is alright,just not the homosexual lifestyle? No one is demanding a law that dictates how much time is spent with family or God. That doesn't have anything to do with this. (OH yes, that's where we draw the line! Folks! Us Good Christians) God drew the line ,not good christians. Just as he did on many other issues.This is the only issue that acceptance and agreement is being forced or guess what,you are not christian. How do you come up with "lording it over someone"? Yes they do call christians to a higher standard. That may even involve you and the gay community. ,The Church to be like HIM If we are in relationship with GOD we WILL be like HIM Do we need to celebrate and condone and accept the gay lifestyle and marriage in order to be like Him? That would seem that God sanctions and blesses gay marriage. God is relational and you see that in Paul. He knew those people (churches) he wrote to. He was there for the conversions etc. He asks that we ,The Church to be like HIM If we are in relationship with GOD we WILL be like HIM We wouldn't be able to help ourselves! I don't think anyone here is standing on a street corner yelling with signs. The gay community that speaks so often of christian love demands we vote for their personal choice don't they? Quote MultiQuote GayatfootofCross and phkrause 2 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 ,The Church to be like HIM If we are in relationship with GOD we WILL be like HIM And there's the rub. To be like Him. Obedient to the word of God even when the law of the land places man's ideas above the law of God. So the question is: to obey God or man? John the Baptist told Herod: it is wrong for you to have your brother's wife. So are Christians duty bound to tell gay people: gay lifestyle is sin, repent and turn to Jesus? Or do Christians not call sin sin and allow people to choose to live as they please (which is to fail to be faithful watchmen) What are God's instructions to the watchmen? But if Christians call gays sinners, how will gays feel? How will they react? As they get their "rights" will they put down Christians who read the Bible to say that those who live that lifestyle are not Heaven bound? In the American democracy, the rights of the minority are supposed to be protected. Gays have not always had that feeling of being protected. And now that the shoe is on the other foot, don't be surprised if Christians, who hold a different point of view soon find them selves as a persecuted minority. phkrause 1 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 In the minds of many christians there is only one 'sin' to talk about or discuss...to infinity and beyond.....never my own! The excuse that is given to that is......wait....here it comes...but I'm trying to overcome, and a gay person wants to stay a gay person, so there! Lord save us from that part of christendom that thinks they have all the answers. It is said many times or alluded too...that Bible believing christians may become the new minority or become persecuted. Wrong, it is those who choose to think outside the box or for themselves....in my opinion...just saying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 I think it all comes down to our Image of GOD and how we see ourselves and uhh ..others Paul said he was the chief of all sinners 1 Tim 1:15. Not cause he sinned more than anyone on earth but cause he looked upon himself as worst than anyone He saw GOD and woe unto him who has unclean lips Isa 6:5 He esteemed others higher than himself Phil 2:3 That is how we as Christians are called to be with others even with Homosexuals who choose to marry or not (some are celibate and some don't have the libido and some pursue the cerebral and the arts and don't cloud their heads with lust or just plain tuckered) i know gays in all these categories does anyone here? there are oodles of them everywhere.. If u ever got to know some on a transparent safe fellowship deep level Love and bless our enemies of our churches and nation and morals Math 5:44 cause we see JESUS in all of them Math 25:31-46 That is the Bottom line for us Christians you can still snarl at sin and make it known if u must here and there and everywhere But don't ever confuse the sin with the sinner even when they themselves identify with the sin God has a higher Standard and wants us to vote with our reflection of JESUS so they will leave all sin behind just like all of you did The Lord says,“Come, everyone who is thirsty..here is water!Come, you that have no money..buy grain and eat! Come! Buy wine and milk...it will cost you nothing!Why spend money on what does not satisfy?Why spend your wages and still be hungry? Listen to me and do what I say, and you will enjoy the best food of all. “Listen now, my people, and come to me;come to me, and you will have life! I love this God! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 Dearest brotherly love We don't know each other and.. everything you evil surmise has nothing to do with me. It is in all your head. I don't owe a stranger I meet online an explanation about my life, esp.on this thread! And it still has nothing to do with the topic.. again its not about forcing a belief system on others its a matter of choice. God gave that choice and all choices have consequences. and since we are pleading with one another (you started it) Evil surmising is a bad choice. oh please give up that lifestyle! We are just hoping America can live up to it's promises. And a Christian side note ..GOD does live up to all His promises. Amen! I know! God Bless You brotherly love I see such kindness from you in your posts God is relational and bids us to be that to each other to reflect HIM. And we are not in relationship therefore, you don't know what I do or don't do. and I am not saying I learned it does no good here. a hard grieving lesson I had to learn with most Adventists BTW I desire Christians to love and loveon LGBTIQAA That is one of God's desires too now ... Dearest brotherly love We don't know each other and.. everything you evil surmise has nothing to do with me. It is in all your head. I don't owe a stranger I meet online an explanation about my life, esp.on this thread! And it still has nothing to do with the topic.. again its not about forcing a belief system on others its a matter of choice. God gave that choice and all choices have consequences. and since we are pleading with one another (you started it) Evil surmising is a bad choice. oh please give up that lifestyle! We are just hoping America can live up to it's promises. And a Christian side note ..GOD does live up to all His promises. Amen! I know! God Bless You brotherly love I see such kindness from you in your posts God is relational and bids us to be that to each other to reflect HIM. And we are not in relationship therefore, you don't know what I do or don't do. and I am not saying I learned it does no good here. a hard grieving lesson I had to learn with most Adventists BTW I desire Christians to love and loveon LGBTIQAA That is one of God's desires too now ... In order to have love and comapssion for you I have to be truthful to you. So far, all you have been able to muster is emotional responses, but I assure you that emotions are misleading. Many emotional responses have had huge immorality attached to them in the past-including gay bashing. A person struggling with wrong choices would not create a banner with the title of "gay at the cross" and then create a rainbow cross that symbolizes a compatability with the cross and willful and ongoing practicing of this lifestyle. At the same time, imagine someone created a banner with "swingers at the cross" or "pornographers at the cross" and decorated the cross with symbols of those lifestyle choices. A person choosing to follow the Master Teacher Jesus Christ would be inspired to make a banner with "repentant gay at the cross" or "repentant swinger at the cross". You can mock me with emoticons with a hell and brimstone type preacher, but you are only condemning yourself. I assure you from the authority of scripture, you will experience eternal shame for your choices-not for struggling with your problems, but in justifying your problems as an acceptable lifesyle to honor God and trying to persuade others to accept your lifesyle as glory to God On the other hand, most will not be able to communicate the reason why God condemns same sex sexuality as a sin-because they have been influenced by a secular definition of sexuality that reduces it to emotional love and physical pleasure-a feeling. People who are same sex, bisexual, swingers, premarital, adultery and others also are able to experience emotional love and physical pleasure. The flood gates would have to be opened up to everyone if this is our view of sexuality God has given to us, or the aplogetic gets narrowed down to a dogmatic "because God said so" narrative. Instead a person has to answer the question of 'why has God said so" A friend of mine who was a former Jewess wrote a good beginning article on this topic, and I will press her to write more. http://holybibleforums.com/purpose-driven-sexuality/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 29, 2015 Author Share Posted April 29, 2015 In order to have love and comapssion for you I have to be truthful to you. So far, all you have been able to muster is emotional responses, but I assure you that emotions are misleading. Many emotional responses have had huge immorality attached to them in the past-including gay bashing. A person struggling with wrong choices would not create a banner with the title of "gay at the cross" and then create a rainbow cross that symbolizes a compatability with the cross and willful and ongoing practicing of this lifestyle. At the same time, imagine someone created a banner with "swingers at the cross" or "pornographers at the cross" and decorated the cross with symbols of those lifestyle choices. A person choosing to follow the Master Teacher Jesus Christ would be inspired to make a banner with "repentant gay at the cross" or "repentant swinger at the cross". You can mock me with emoticons with a hell and brimstone type preacher, but you are only condemning yourself. I assure you from the authority of scripture, you will experience eternal shame for your choices-not for struggling with your problems, but in justifying your problems as an acceptable lifesyle to honor God and trying to persuade others to accept your lifesyle as glory to God On the other hand, most will not be able to communicate the reason why God condemns same sex sexuality as a sin-because they have been influenced by a secular definition of sexuality that reduces it to emotional love and physical pleasure-a feeling. People who are same sex, bisexual, swingers, premarital, adultery and others also are able to experience emotional love and physical pleasure. The flood gates would have to be opened up to everyone if this is our view of sexuality God has given to us, or the aplogetic gets narrowed down to a dogmatic "because God said so" narrative. Instead a person has to answer the question of 'why has God said so" A friend of mine who was a former Jewess wrote a good beginning article on this topic, and I will press her to write more. http://holybibleforums.com/purpose-driven-sexuality/ Yes,brotherly love! how interesting I use GAYATFOOTOFCROSS with a rainbow in the background..sooo pretty The CROSS is in both as well as gay. hmmm.. Maybe you can focus on the both CROSS if it will help u have compassion on me And umm..I am not trying to get compassion from strangers I meet online here I have a great GOD and a Body of Christ for that That see me and I see them. And I do not know if it is foreign to your idea of Christianity (u only expressed one conclusion about my name and avatar) to speak for others. It is for others mostly. Outside of me. Other focused. Jesus was very other focused to the point of Sacrificing for His enemies The Name reflects others and What a GOD we have and what HE has done for me and them! It is okay if you don't like it or agree with my method. Or even understand. I am not asking for compassion or emotions. I am asking for a decision on how on Christians look upon LGBTIQQAA ..at least in this thread for now. JESUS does fit the calling .. we must too if we wanna go home. SANCTIFICATION is about LOVE GOD with all our hearts and love gays as ourselves (or whatever we are challenged with fill in the blank) Therefore all the scriptures I share if it invokes emotions close to the Fruits of The Spirit, amen go for it. We gotta start somewhere. and I am not justifying my lifestyle You don't know ..still have no idea. Now to the most distressing part of my reply to you... Mock you? Hell and fire preacher emoticon? OH NO! I must apologize. I felt like a mouse in a farmers market in Vermont. I have never seen so many cute lil emoticons to post. I almost put up more.Too cute! I thought they were here for that. Hell and fire didn't occur to me -being an Adventist ( i grew up in a church that talked more of heaven than hell ,as my buddy told me) I saw pontificating... I felt I was preaching to a dear Brethren and used the emoticon to soften the ..... oh never mind Please Forgive me I didn't meat to offend you. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted April 29, 2015 Share Posted April 29, 2015 There is so much stink about Christians refusing service for gay weddings, try getting a Muslim bakery to do it. If a gay couple can't get adequate service from one business, there is likely a business across the street that will gladly accomodate them. As a business owner, I doubt that I would refuse service to a gay couple. But if I was a pastor, I doubt if I could perform a marriage ceremony for them. But that's me; and I don't draw that line for anyone but myself. There seems to be a misunderstanding about the whole Christian's resistance to helping to do gay weddings. Any of these businesses from the florist to the baker would have items ready to go on their shelves that are available to anyone who walks in and pays for it. Haven't heard of anyone who said they would refuse to sell to someone gay. But baking cakes especially for a gay wedding, making flower arrangements especially for a gay wedding, and so on, requires the owner of the establishment to put forth specific efforts to help put on a gay wedding. I am not sure why people can not get this, but the shop owners have the right not to participate in something they have moral objections too. Now I can hear about all the other sins that people have this idea that they are approved of. Really a non issue. First of all, these same Christian shopowners are just as likely to not make cake or flowers for someone celebrating their first adultery, burglary, or even their first murder! I think it is time to get over this issue as it seems to be just turning into a lottery for these offended gays. The ones in Oregon have been awarded $135,000 for their "emotional distress"! That is legalized theft. Liberals Are Distorting the Bible to Advance Their Political Agenda | ZoNation: The Bible does not tell Christians to deny goods and services to gay people, but Zo thinks liberals should stop using the Bible to bully Christians. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hoU1lMxZqU Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brotherly love Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Yes,brotherly love! how interesting I use GAYATFOOTOFCROSS with a rainbow in the background..sooo pretty The CROSS is in both as well as gay. hmmm.. Maybe you can focus on the both CROSS if it will help u have compassion on me And umm..I am not trying to get compassion from strangers I meet online here I have a great GOD and a Body of Christ for that That see me and I see them. And I do not know if it is foreign to your idea of Christianity (u only expressed one conclusion about my name and avatar) to speak for others. It is for others mostly. Outside of me. Other focused. Jesus was very other focused to the point of Sacrificing for His enemies The Name reflects others and What a GOD we have and what HE has done for me and them! It is okay if you don't like it or agree with my method. Or even understand. I am not asking for compassion or emotions. I am asking for a decision on how on Christians look upon LGBTIQQAA ..at least in this thread for now. JESUS does fit the calling .. we must too if we wanna go home. SANCTIFICATION is about LOVE GOD with all our hearts and love gays as ourselves (or whatever we are challenged with fill in the blank) Therefore all the scriptures I share if it invokes emotions close to the Fruits of The Spirit, amen go for it. We gotta start somewhere. and I am not justifying my lifestyle You don't know ..still have no idea. Now to the most distressing part of my reply to you... Mock you? Hell and fire preacher emoticon? OH NO! I must apologize. I felt like a mouse in a farmers market in Vermont. I have never seen so many cute lil emoticons to post. I almost put up more.Too cute! I thought they were here for that. Hell and fire didn't occur to me -being an Adventist ( i grew up in a church that talked more of heaven than hell ,as my buddy told me) I saw pontificating... I felt I was preaching to a dear Brethren and used the emoticon to soften the ..... oh never mind Please Forgive me I didn't meat to offend you. I dont know you, but I have compassion on you nontheless. My best friend growing up became a drug addict, and my door was always open to him, and I was one of the few people he did not rip off. He did not condone his problem, but struggled with it to the end. He did not attempt to condone his drug problem with a celebration of drug use with the cross. Were my compassion turns into pity for you would stem from you misleading yourself that you are fine with God without repentance. Instead of following God, you are tring to make God follow you by changing His wisdom into your own wisdom. It is not whether I like or agree with your method, it is whether God likes or agrees with your lifestyle.You may convince many people that it is fine to be a practicing gay person, but in the end you are looking for other peoples approval-not God's. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Liberals, conservatives of all religions Are Distorting the Bible to Advance Their Political Agenda or personal beliefs!! Totally agree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Were my compassion turns into pity for you would stem from you misleading yourself that you are fine with God without repentance. Where was that said, must have missed it. Instead of following God, you are tring to make God follow you by changing His wisdom into your own wisdom. That could be said of you also.....and me.....and everyone this side of heaven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think it is time to get over this issue as it seems to be just turning into a lottery for these offended gays, offended christians, etc, etc. Agree!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Now I can hear about all the other sins that people have this idea that they are approved of. Really a non issue. Really? Non issue really, other sins a non issue!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 It is not whether I like or agree with your method, it is whether God likes or agrees with your lifestyle.You may convince many people that it is fine to be a practicing gay person, but in the end you are looking for other peoples approval-not God's. Praise God for you being there your friend! amen. As for your erroneous ideas about my life and intentions here all I can say is ..GOD BLESS YOU brotherly love I'm just going to use emoticons when talking to you any further. with a lil wishes of blessings on your life in between Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 CoAspen Hello, thank you for coming to bat for me. I possibly couldn't answer each and every false accusation coming at me from a someone I never met. On every post to me? If it was a friend or family that i did know or at least met ..I might want to give it the ol college try. but deep down I think it says more about him than me. .... of course! Besides.. I can see where this is going. God Bless you! God has been so good.. I really don't have anything to complain about. I have to remind myself HYMMS! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Where was that said, must have missed it. That could be said of you also.....and me.....and everyone this side of heaven. I'm still new at this. I just want you to know I replied to you above Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Its interesting that Ellen White with her prophetic gift saw fit to address this issue, this is one reference that i have found that seems to capture what she is trying to say pretty well. " Chapter 16—Homosexuality [The 1977 annual council of the Seventh-day Adventist Church voted that “gross sexual perversions, including homosexual practices, are recognized as a misuse of sexual powers and a violation of the divine intention in marriage. As such they are just cause for divorce.”—General Actions, p. 10. Reasons for which a person may be disfellowshipped from the Seventh-day Adventist Church include “homosexual practice and other perversions.”—Seventh-day Adventist Church Manual (revised 1986), p. 162.] Sodomitish Impurity—Oh, how disgusted is God with the tame, lifeless, Christless efforts made by some of those who profess to be His servants! God’s work must be carried forward strongly and upward. This cannot be done unless the sensuality that corrupts the whole man is separated from the religious experience. This work must be done. Church members need to fast and pray, striving earnestly to overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. Not one particle of Sodomitish impurity will escape the wrath of God at the execution of the judgment. Those who do not repent of and forsake all uncleanness will fall with the wicked. Those who become members of the royal family and form God’s kingdom in the earth made new, will be saints, not sinners. Isaiah 30:1-3, 8-16. Those who have had great light and have disregarded it stand in a worse position than those who have not been given so many advantages. They exalt themselves, but not the Lord. The punishment inflicted on human beings will in every case be proportionate to the dishonor they have" http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=TSB&pagenumber=119 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 The following is a condensation of interview by Coming Out Ministries http://www.knowhislove.com/?page_id=2982 Former active homosexuals developed a group that ministers to homosexuals who are wishing to fit into church community http://comingoutministries.org “We don’t promote conversion or reparative therapy at all. The opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality but “holiness" The only "conversion" therapy I know that any of the group promotes is true conversion therapy-turning your life fully over to Christ. “I make it a point in every presentation to say that God doesn’t redeem us by the kind of sex we’re having.” Wayne realizes that there’s a diverse range of viewpoints around homosexuality out there. As someone who has been a part of both the secular gay community and the Christian community, he has a lot to say. “God wants us to have an intimate relationship with Him where we would seek to do His will, as we know His will for us, and it will never disagree with His Word.” He also stresses that the aim of the conference was not to turn people into red-blooded heterosexuals. “That might mean that I live celibate and single for the rest of my life, it might mean that He would direct me to the one woman that I would fall in love with. He’s not asking me to fall in love with the entire female population either!” “What we’re trying to do is be advocates for gays in the church, so they can say that we are all loved by God and that we all struggle with various things, but we should come together and lift each other up through the healing that is possible through Jesus. “You won’t find on any of our webpages information about becoming “straight”— it’s about putting people into a loving relationship with God and coming to see that God does have a plan for their life. That involves some self-denial. Whether that is about homosexuality, anger issues or over-eating, whatever the case may be.” “We don’t even like to identify by the term ex-gay. That’s not the term that we use. Corinthians says that when I put my past behind me and sacrifice it to God, I have a fresh start in Him. He has plans for my life. But ex-gay indicates to somebody that now I’m straight. We say we are redeemed. It’s not that I’m no longer tempted, it’s just that I’m not identifying myself by what my temptation is. I handed my temptations over to Jesus.” “Each one of us was in the gay culture for many years and identified with it.” Michael Carducci told me a bit more about what the Coming Out Ministries actually does, and why they do it. “They experienced what many young gay Christians do: an alienation from the Church, and then a rebellion towards and rejection of God. “We left the Adventist church in our early twenties. We had no resources or hope for redemption. He spoke to each one of us individually and brought us out of gay culture. As we discovered more and more of his profound intimate love, it drew us closer and closer together, and further away from the culture we’d identified with for 20 to 40 years.” “Homosexuality is just one of the central issues that are in our church today. It’s something we’ve come out of, and we’ve since lost two members and gained another, Danielle, who came out of bisexuality. “We are advocating for choice. Many say that homosexuality is something you were born with. Imagine being a Christian and thinking that God made you this way, and that there was no way out. That would be a cruel God. The understanding that we have is that there is an intense love that drew us out of our homosexuality and bisexuality that can satisfy more than any lover.” This will resonate with many LGBT Christians - the feeling of rejection, both by the Church and, in your mind, by God. I asked about whether he wanted to spread any message, about God asking LGBT Christians to move away from the gay community and towards the Church. “We want to give that option to other people. We have all come out from homosexuality, we understand the desires and that people have lovers they are deeply in love with, and they make a decision to stay in their relationships. We understand that, we respect everyone’s right to choose. “Could you imagine if we stood at the door and they had to sign a piece of paper and we dunked them in a pool, and they came out and we said they are not gay?! That would be ridiculous.” So, they don’t want to force conversion on people. But they are spreading a message that acting on same-sex attraction is a sin. There are plenty of people who would have an issue with that. “We say that if you’re straight, you’re welcome, if you’re gay, you’re welcome, if you’re a paedophile, you’re welcome! We are invitational just as Jesus is educational to us. If any one of us was to go back to gay culture we would respect and not judge that. We don’t judge anyone. “Each one of us is on a journey into healing—some of our members haven’t even experienced attractions to the opposite sex. I still have same-sex attraction. God still loves me. He does not think that I am an abomination, but instead that the actions of homosexuality bring us further away from God.” Sin isn’t a judgemental word for Michael, he feels like it’s often taken out of context. It means an action which would remove you from God, or put a barrier between the two of you. “It means you are removed from that peaceful relationship that he wants for each one of us. When I compare my relationships with Jesus to the ones I had in my 20 years of gay culture, I realize that none of them satisfied me like my relationship with Jesus did. None of them lasted for more than four years.” They maintain their focus isn’t on homosexuality for the reason that it is any worse than any other sin. It is because it’s a sin that they have all experienced. “We’re not saying anything different to the homosexual community than what we are saying to the heterosexual community. “The bible says that everyone is born with a sinful nature that has the propensity to break God’s moral laws. Many are labelled as Alcoholics, Junkies, Homo’s, Criminals, Adulterers. You don’t have people walking around saying ‘I am an adultering Christian’ or ‘I am a thieving Christian’. My identity is not in my struggle, it’s in my victory, and my victory is in Jesus Christ.” “Drunkeness, adultery, thievery, active homo lifestyle is not God’s will. It’s anything outside of what God designed. He created man in his image, and then he created male and female. Men and women are diversely different, but they come together in such a beautiful way that they totally represent the fullest picture of God—when two become one flesh. It creates life, just like God! “Other kinds of sex are destructive, when we look at the sex that other people have like anal and oral sex it’s degrading. God doesn’t want to degrade his creatures. This isn’t limited to homosexuals - Christian heterosexuals do it too.” These five persons wasn’t actually promoting “gay conversion into becoming heterosexual”, but a form of celibacy and abstinence. They're not here to condem. They are not even here to transform others of their own efforts. They are here to tell of the love of God that transforms the goals and values of homosexual people to experience peace, harmony and new ideals. JoeMo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 " Sodomitish Impurity—Oh, how disgusted is God with the tame, lifeless, Christless efforts made by some of those who profess to be His servants! God’s work must be carried forward strongly and upward. This cannot be done unless the sensuality that corrupts the whole man is separated from the religious experience. This work must be done. Church members need to fast and pray, striving earnestly to overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the word of their testimony. Not one particle of Sodomitish impurity will escape the wrath of God at the execution of the judgment. Those who do not repent of and forsake all uncleanness will fall with the wicked. Those who become members of the royal family and form God’s kingdom in the earth made new, will be saints, not sinners. Isaiah 30:1-3, 8-16. Those who have had great light and have disregarded it stand in a worse position than those who have not been given so many advantages. They exalt themselves, but not the Lord. The punishment inflicted on human beings will in every case be proportionate to the dishonor they have" http://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=TSB&pagenumber=119 Yes Sojourner, I love your name! Please to meet you here of all places. I love your name ..speaks to me. Indeed this place is not our home. To add to your post.. but never tire of saying to my friends Blessed are the pure of heart for they shall see GOD what a Promise! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 The following is a condensation of interview by Coming Out Ministries http://www.knowhislove.com/?page_id=2982 Former active homosexuals developed a group that ministers to homosexuals who are wishing to fit into church community http://comingoutministries.org “We don’t promote conversion or reparative therapy at all. The opposite of homosexuality is not heterosexuality but “holiness" The only "conversion" therapy I know that any of the group promotes is true conversion therapy-turning your life fully over to Christ. “I make it a point in every presentation to say that God doesn’t redeem us by the kind of sex we’re having.” Wayne realizes that there’s a diverse range of viewpoints around homosexuality out there. As someone who has been a part of both the secular gay community and the Christian community, he has a lot to say. “God wants us to have an intimate relationship with Him where we would seek to do His will, as we know His will for us, and it will never disagree with His Word.” He also stresses that the aim of the conference was not to turn people into red-blooded heterosexuals. “That might mean that I live celibate and single for the rest of my life, it might mean that He would direct me to the one woman that I would fall in love with. He’s not asking me to fall in love with the entire female population either!” “What we’re trying to do is be advocates for gays in the church, so they can say that we are all loved by God and that we all struggle with various things, but we should come together and lift each other up through the healing that is possible through Jesus. “You won’t find on any of our webpages information about becoming “straight”— it’s about putting people into a loving relationship with God and coming to see that God does have a plan for their life. That involves some self-denial. Whether that is about homosexuality, anger issues or over-eating, whatever the case may be.” “We don’t even like to identify by the term ex-gay. That’s not the term that we use. Corinthians says that when I put my past behind me and sacrifice it to God, I have a fresh start in Him. He has plans for my life. But ex-gay indicates to somebody that now I’m straight. We say we are redeemed. It’s not that I’m no longer tempted, it’s just that I’m not identifying myself by what my temptation is. I handed my temptations over to Jesus.” “Each one of us was in the gay culture for many years and identified with it.” Michael Carducci told me a bit more about what the Coming Out Ministries actually does, and why they do it. “They experienced what many young gay Christians do: an alienation from the Church, and then a rebellion towards and rejection of God. “We left the Adventist church in our early twenties. We had no resources or hope for redemption. He spoke to each one of us individually and brought us out of gay culture. As we discovered more and more of his profound intimate love, it drew us closer and closer together, and further away from the culture we’d identified with for 20 to 40 years.” “Homosexuality is just one of the central issues that are in our church today. It’s something we’ve come out of, and we’ve since lost two members and gained another, Danielle, who came out of bisexuality. “We are advocating for choice. Many say that homosexuality is something you were born with. Imagine being a Christian and thinking that God made you this way, and that there was no way out. That would be a cruel God. The understanding that we have is that there is an intense love that drew us out of our homosexuality and bisexuality that can satisfy more than any lover.” This will resonate with many LGBT Christians - the feeling of rejection, both by the Church and, in your mind, by God. I asked about whether he wanted to spread any message, about God asking LGBT Christians to move away from the gay community and towards the Church. “We want to give that option to other people. We have all come out from homosexuality, we understand the desires and that people have lovers they are deeply in love with, and they make a decision to stay in their relationships. We understand that, we respect everyone’s right to choose. “Could you imagine if we stood at the door and they had to sign a piece of paper and we dunked them in a pool, and they came out and we said they are not gay?! That would be ridiculous.” So, they don’t want to force conversion on people. But they are spreading a message that acting on same-sex attraction is a sin. There are plenty of people who would have an issue with that. “We say that if you’re straight, you’re welcome, if you’re gay, you’re welcome, if you’re a paedophile, you’re welcome! We are invitational just as Jesus is educational to us. If any one of us was to go back to gay culture we would respect and not judge that. We don’t judge anyone. “Each one of us is on a journey into healing—some of our members haven’t even experienced attractions to the opposite sex. I still have same-sex attraction. God still loves me. He does not think that I am an abomination, but instead that the actions of homosexuality bring us further away from God.” Sin isn’t a judgemental word for Michael, he feels like it’s often taken out of context. It means an action which would remove you from God, or put a barrier between the two of you. “It means you are removed from that peaceful relationship that he wants for each one of us. When I compare my relationships with Jesus to the ones I had in my 20 years of gay culture, I realize that none of them satisfied me like my relationship with Jesus did. None of them lasted for more than four years.” They maintain their focus isn’t on homosexuality for the reason that it is any worse than any other sin. It is because it’s a sin that they have all experienced. “We’re not saying anything different to the homosexual community than what we are saying to the heterosexual community. “The bible says that everyone is born with a sinful nature that has the propensity to break God’s moral laws. Many are labelled as Alcoholics, Junkies, Homo’s, Criminals, Adulterers. You don’t have people walking around saying ‘I am an adultering Christian’ or ‘I am a thieving Christian’. My identity is not in my struggle, it’s in my victory, and my victory is in Jesus Christ.” “Drunkeness, adultery, thievery, active homo lifestyle is not God’s will. It’s anything outside of what God designed. He created man in his image, and then he created male and female. Men and women are diversely different, but they come together in such a beautiful way that they totally represent the fullest picture of God—when two become one flesh. It creates life, just like God! “Other kinds of sex are destructive, when we look at the sex that other people have like anal and oral sex it’s degrading. God doesn’t want to degrade his creatures. This isn’t limited to homosexuals - Christian heterosexuals do it too.” These five persons wasn’t actually promoting “gay conversion into becoming heterosexual”, but a form of celibacy and abstinence. They're not here to condem. They are not even here to transform others of their own efforts. They are here to tell of the love of God that transforms the goals and values of homosexual people to experience peace, harmony and new ideals. wow! amen I had to figure out all this on my own years ago ( I can't take credit ...All this stuff God has been saying all along ,in my reaching out to HIM ..Overwhelmed with my sins, even though I never heard anyone else say it for a few decades) I am glad that finally others are catching on to this Praise GOD Heterosexuality is not sainthood purity of heart is! Why didn't I ever hear of that in fellowship dinner or Sabbath School or the pulpit all those wasted years? Just condemnation. I was just saying to Sojourner a minutia ago it's about purity of heart. God has also lead me in understanding How big grace is to even the gays that don't quite hold the same theology as most. Like He does with Churches who have not been convicted as us. There still is a lot to be convicted on in our churches. Just look at what people say here to one another here alone! WOW! That one thought has been going on for awhile. GOD understands each person individually and know where they are coming from. And I love that kind of GOD! It warms my heart toward HIM more and I get excited when I see that reflected in people. The more you receive Grace poured in the more Grace bubbles over onto others. it is a natural Law in the Spiritual Kingdom. I don't agree 100% with the Quote above Yentyl, thank you so much for that still. I was thinking what the church has been telling me for years.. which was evil in itself "we wont think your converted till you marry a wife and have children!" thank you again for setting the record straight (pun intended) When we become Christians we don't get a list of things we get a Person JESUS! Now maybe we got all that straightened out (again Pun intended) How can we as Christians pour Dignity and Respect on them as humans in the .USA the day after we warn them in relationship with all the Kindness God gives. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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