Ellen Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 We have a couple new members who are enthusiastic and passionate to change their lives drastically from their former ways. As a result they are scrutinizing EVERYTHING that goes on in the church. We found the children't story has gotten a little out of hand - taking up too much of the service, particularly. So we decided to make guidelines for the story tellers. Mostly that they should keep it brief and have a spiritual lesson if not a bible story. This Sabbath the adult told of a real experience of two boys over a Blue Jays had that was signed by Robbie Alomar. His special best friend grabbed his precious hat and ground it into the mud with his foot. He ended up with his hat being washed but he wouldn't talk to his friend for 10 years. . . . they found forgiveness and lost all those years over being unforgiving that long. This upset the aforementioned member and said the Spirit has been convicting him about these secular things coming into the curch . I felt the story was very appropriate and wonder what you all think. Stan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 It is good to keep a spiritual emphasis on the children's story, but I am concerned when people want to cut down the time for children in the church service. I feel that children get pitifully little time in the service and we wonder why they find church such a drag. I hated church when little, no matter how much I liked the Bible, hearing Bible stories, and everything that went with it as it was definitely something to endure every week. Children are part of the church family and should be valued. As it is, children hear their short story and then are told to go back to their seat (with the implied message to shut up!). I would also fear for a church that would let newcomers come in and upset the order of church because they weren't happy with the way things are. I say this because I have seen in other religions are marked different manner of dealing with children in their worship service. For many years I attend a conservative synagogue. There, the children are a very important part of the worship service. Torah reading, of course, is done every Sabbath. If a child is being Bar/Bat Mitzvad, they read the Torah portion. During the chanting of the prayer, the children were up/down from the bimah frequently. When the Torah was taken thru the congregation, the children followed. When the challah was eaten, the children were there. When not on the bimah for a part in the service, they played in the aisles. Amazingly, they were quiet and did not intrude into the service. So many times I wished the church would be as kind to children as the synagogue was. And we also see how the religion has survived so well since the return from Babylon before Jesus came. And ponder it when you are wondering why so many children leave the church. Oh! BTW, the story detailed was great. How could you have a problem with it? Kevin H, Naomi, DreamWeaver and 1 other 4 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 We have a couple new members who are enthusiastic and passionate to change their lives drastically from their former ways. As a result they are scrutinizing EVERYTHING that goes on in the church. We found the children't story has gotten a little out of hand - taking up too much of the service, particularly. So we decided to make guidelines for the story tellers. Mostly that they should keep it brief and have a spiritual lesson if not a bible story. This Sabbath the adult told of a real experience of two boys over a Blue Jays had that was signed by Robbie Alomar. His special best friend grabbed his precious hat and ground it into the mud with his foot. He ended up with his hat being washed but he wouldn't talk to his friend for 10 years. . . . they found forgiveness and lost all those years over being unforgiving that long. This upset the aforementioned member and said the Spirit has been convicting him about these secular things coming into the curch . I felt the story was very appropriate and wonder what you all think. I agree, I believe some try to get a sermon in when telling the children's story. The attention span of toddlers and very young children is very short and some of the stories are rather long, and seem to be getting longer and longer to try and make a point!! Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 22, 2015 Members Share Posted April 22, 2015 I think the story was very appropriate. Relationships between friends – and arguments that can injure the relationships – are very important to God. Not everyone is going to be touched in the same manner by the same story. Sometimes new [and old] members can be overzealous and critical. Probably the best way to deal with them is to thank them for their input.... smile, and continue with the guidelines that are in place for the children's stories.. phkrause, LifeHiscost and Naomi 3 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 We get a similar problem here from time to time "I have arrived, now I am going to run this, and take no advice from any one. After all, I have arrived." Yet I feel for the person, when I first came to the Adventist Church, I found it rather irritating that the Childrens' story was often more about having so much fun, but learned my lesson, and then became a Christian, and boy did I have a good time 'before I became a Christian' I was hoping and expecting to tell some Bible stories or Bible lessons. Just one opinion... others may differ. I have since heard some great children stories that were relevant life stories.. Kevin H, LifeHiscost and Naomi 3 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted April 23, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2015 Sounds like a very appropriate story to me. A real lesson could be learned from it. The story might depend upon the age of the children listening. A time limit could be established. NOTE: In a televised service, every aspect must be controlled--time content, etc. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 ... This upset the aforementioned member and said the Spirit has been convicting him about these secular things coming into the curch . ... Was there any further discussion about what the Spirit had been convicting him about ... specifically? Do Adventist congregants dismiss Spirit-led convictions too readily? LifeHiscost 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Ellen wrote: This upset the aforementioned member and said the Spirit has been convicting him about these secular things coming into the curch . Was there any further discussion about what the Spirit had been convicting him about ... specifically? Do Adventist congregants dismiss Spirit-led convictions too readily? Considering the story as anonymous, I find many people say that they are led by the Holy Spirit. I am not always convinced that that is the case. With the caveat that the word of God "divides asunder", you have to also consider what the results are of these actions by the person "led by the Holy Spirit". A new member to the faith cannot really come in with the feeling of being led by the Spirit and turn everything upside down. Unfortunately, the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit out there that is leading people, even within God's church. Satan also can be as an "angel of light". And he leads people. How do you tell the difference? I would submit there is a spiritual war going on in the church for the hearts and minds of the people. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galatians 5:22-23 (KJV) LifeHiscost, Outta Here, Kevin H and 1 other 4 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted April 23, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2015 Lyndon said: Considering the story as anonymous, I find many people say that they are led by the Holy Spirit. I am not always convinced that that is the case. * * * * A new member to the faith cannot really come in with the feeling of being led by the Spirit and turn everything upside down. Unfortunately, the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit out there that is leading people, even within God's church. Satan also can be as an "angel of light". * * * * I would submit there is a spiritual war going on in the church for the hearts and minds of the people. Great post. phkrause 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted April 23, 2015 Moderators Share Posted April 23, 2015 We, all of us, have two attitudes fighting inside of us. The first is our sinful nature. I like what Mrs. White says in the communion chapter of the Desire of Ages: There is in every man a disposition to esteem himself more highly than his breathern, to serve self, to seek the highest place and often this results in evil surmisings and bitterness of spirit. Or as the poet/philosopher Eli Siegel put it: there is in every person a disposition to think they are for themselves by making less of the outside world. The solution is given in Desire of Ages page 461 "When we love the world as he [Jesus] has loved it then for us his mission is accomplished; we are fitted for heaven for we have heaven in our hearts. Religion has been used for either way. We can either use Religion to integrate our selves more with reality, or we can use it to try to separate ourselves into our own little world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Davey Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 Greetings all, This reminds me of a similiar story about children.Oh yes Luke 18;16-18. Jesus looked upon his time with children during His ministry as special time.He had strong words for critics. Though speaking about teaching Ellen White commented "It is the nicest work ever assumed by men and women to deal with youthful minds" Stan and LifeHiscost 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 There is such a thing as being so heavenly minded you are no earthly good. (comes to mind) A similar problem came up about having a bowling night for a church social. Naomi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted April 26, 2015 Members Share Posted April 26, 2015 There is such a thing as being so heavenly minded you are no earthly good. (comes to mind) A similar problem came up about having a bowling night for a church social. really? what's wrong with bowling?? It's just like golf, except instead of hitting a little ball with a big stick, you hit a bunch of little sticks with a big ball... Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deaconess Posted July 12, 2015 Share Posted July 12, 2015 I think the story was quite appropriate. We need to teach children with simple ideas and, many times, the lessons apply just as effectively to the adults in the audience. More conversation with this person might elicit a better understanding of why it pricks at his/her conscience so harshly. Either extreme of attitude can be dangerous: too careless or too condemning. A balance of one's conscience in a healthy way would be uplifting as God lifts our burdens. False guilt can be mentally exhausting. Kevin H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sojourner Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Does Paul himself not make direct reference to the original Olympic Games in the Bible and state that "Physical Training is of some value"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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