LifeHiscost Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Quote: LifeHiscost said: [:"red"] "...for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." [/] Revelation 12:10 KJV Thoughts? There is nothing in the Scripture above to indicate that the accusations aren't true. Could you give a reason why the prince of darkness would accuse the children of God of their failures? And where would those accusations be most apt to cause damage if that is his purpose? Who might he use most affectively to substantiate his accusations? And why would he care or take the time to make accusations if he did not see some benefit to himself. [:"red"] "And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends. " [/] Zechariah 13:6 KJV [:"red"] "Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the Angel. Then He answered and spoke to those who stood before Him, saying, “Take away the filthy garments from him.” And to him He said, “See, I have removed your iniquity from you, and I will clothe you with rich robes.” " [/] Keep looking up! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 LHC you are totally misreading me. Just let it go. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Quote: There is nothing in the Scripture above to indicate that the accusations aren't true. Could you give a reason why the prince of darkness would accuse the children of God of their failures? And where would those accusations be most apt to cause damage if that is his purpose? Who might he use most affectively to substantiate his accusations? And why would he care or take the time to make accusations if he did not see some benefit to himself. I have seen this arguement before. And it bothers me that we are so absorbed with what Satan says... My concern is this- Why are we sinners so concerned about Satan? Is not our focus to be on Christ? The Prince of Heaven, has redeem even the most unworthy of us. Is this thought elevating enough to lift us out of our stupor to do something more worthy of what we have done in the past? Would not the Prince reward those who desire to do better than they have? Have we enough imagination that He cares for us as a father toward his children,...even more than a mother to her child? IOWs, what thought/concern does Satan come in but to bring us down to his level? We, sinners though we are, respond to Christ, not to Satan... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Quote: Nicodema said: LHC you are totally misreading me. To tell you the truth, Nico, I'm not sure to what you're surrendering. Other than getting a big charge out of your message, I had no intention of offense or disagreement. However I do admit many see much through their fears, not pointing fingers at anybody. It is not something that can be avoided by a disciple of Christ if he/she is to give personal testimony and comments are contrary to another's perceptions or assumptions. As soon as I answer Neil, perhaps that might add some clarification, although you may see more fuel added to the fire, which I recognize in Jesus' choice to be silent at certain times, as the better part of valor. [:"red"] "He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth." [/] Isaiah 53:7 KJV Cheers! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Surrendering to the fact that right now we're not communicating, and that if I try to fix it I could end up making it worse, which I don't want to do. I feel like you misread my first post somehow because while you responded to it, what you said didn't make sense to me AS a response to anything I'd said. So I tried to steer it back to where I was coming from, to clarify, but then your second response was even further "off" in that respect. So I perceive we are just not communicating clearly and rather than have a fight over it I just wanted to say "so be it -- I'm not going to speak further because I don't want to fight with you." Now I am feeling sorry for myself: can I not even do what is RIGHT and escape being seen as "at fault" somehow? Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Quote: Neil D said: Why are we sinners so concerned about Satan? Is not our focus to be on Christ? Admittedly Jesus is the first one we should look to for our defense at the time of attack. As to ignoring the prince of darkness completely, I don't find that type of instruction brings the balance needed as long as we are located in his domain. [:"red"] "Be well balanced (temperate, sober of mind), be vigilant and cautious at all times; for that enemy of yours, the devil, roams around like a lion roaring [ in fierce hunger], seeking someone to seize upon and devour." [/] 1 Peter 5:8 AMP [:"red"] "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." [/] Matthew 10:16 KJV Quote: IOWs, what thought/concern does Satan come in but to bring us down to his level? [:"red"] "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:" [/] Hosea 4:6 KJV Quote: We, sinners though we are, respond to Christ, not to Satan... [:"red"] "Examine yourselves to see if your faith is really genuine. Test yourselves. If you cannot tell that Jesus Christ is among you, it means you have failed the test." [/] 2 Corinthians 13:4 NLT Keep the faith! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicodema Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Let me try and break this down (just for an example) Quote: LifeHiscost said: To tell you the truth, Nico, I'm not sure to what you're surrendering. That is the only portion of your post addressed to me which I understood. Quote: Other than getting a big charge out of your message, I had no intention of offense or disagreement. However I do admit many see much through their fears, not pointing fingers at anybody. It is not something that can be avoided by a disciple of Christ if he/she is to give personal testimony and comments are contrary to another's perceptions or assumptions. I was literally completely unable to follow the logic, flow, or even decipher the meaning of your language in these sentences. For example, I could not determine "who" was supposedly "getting a big charge" out of my message, let alone WHICH message you meant or WHAT you meant by "a big charge" (is that in a positive sense? or negative? for starters). Then came the mixed messages: many seeing much through their fears, following on the heels of you saying you intended no offense nor disagreement, which was in turn in reference to my post, makes an obvious tie to me -- but then you say "not pointing fingers at anyone". Mixed message: "see that I mean you but you're not allowed to see that I mean you." Then you move on to say "It is not something that can be avoided by a disciple of Christ-- " (what is the "it" in this statement? I honestly don't have a clue what the "it" is you refer to as "it") "-- if he/she is to give personal testimony and comments are contrary to another's perceptions or assumptions." WHAT comments? Of what sort? "contrary to another's perceptions or assumptions" -- which other? the one giving the testimony or someone else? Perceptions and assumptions of WHAT? "Contrary" in WHAT SENSE? And what does one giving a personal testimony have to do with what was being discussed in the first place??? And then with the rest of the post, you just completely lost me. That's why I said because the same thing happened with the post before it. This kind of thing happens frequently for me in trying to make sense of your posts and I'm just tired of dealing with it. It wears me out. It exhausts me mentally, spiritually and emotionally. I don't understand your language or your communication style; I just can't make sense of it for some reason. It is bent, clouded and obscure to me, and I feel annoyed because I have seen you post plainly and comprehendably before. I feel frustrated and tempted to think you do this to me on purpose. I feel hurt by it and whenever I have tried to resolve it I come away feeling bad about myself. I just don't have room or time in my life anymore to waste feeling that way. So from now on, when I don't understand you, I'm just going to give up and wave the white flag. Quote "After such knowledge, what forgiveness?" -- T.S. Eliot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Quote: Nicodema said: I feel like you misread my first post somehow because while you responded to it, what you said didn't make sense to me your second response was even further "off" in that respect. So I perceive we are just not communicating clearly Granted we're no doubt on different pages. Here's a wave from across the room. My best regards. Someday we'll talk about it in the kingdom with a lot of laughs at our past inabilities. [:"red"] "....[when perfection comes] we shall see in reality and face to face! Now I know in part (imperfectly), but then I shall know and understand fully and clearly, even in the same manner as I have been fully and clearly known and understood [ by God]. " [/] 1 Cor 13:12 AMP Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Quote: Quote: Neil D said: Why are we sinners so concerned about Satan? Is not our focus to be on Christ? Admittedly Jesus is the first one we should look to for our defense at the time of attack. As to ignoring the prince of darkness completely, I don't find that type of instruction brings the balance needed as long as we are located in his domain. [:"blue"] James 4:7 (New International Version) New International Version (NIV)Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. [/] My understanding of this text says that by submitting to God, you place God first. YOu focus on Him...By concentrating on God, you automatically 'resist' the devil...If you ain't paying attention to him, what does he have to do with you? Quote: Quote: IOWs, what thought/concern does Satan come in but to bring us down to his level? "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:" Hosea 4:6 KJV Col 2: 2-4 [:"blue"] My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. I tell you this so that no one may deceive you by fine-sounding arguments. [/] If Christ is the source of 'all wisdom and knowledge", then surely a concentration on His ways and means will avoid the entanglements of the devil. Why deal with the devil at all? Why wonder at him, when we are concerned and followers of Christ? Quote: Quote: We, sinners though we are, respond to Christ, not to Satan... "Examine yourselves to see if your faith is really genuine. Test yourselves. If you cannot tell that Jesus Christ is among you, it means you have failed the test." 2 Corinthians 13:5 NLT The passage is to find Jesus IN yourselves, as the NIV and the NASB and the KJV literally point out. Still, the emphasis is on Jesus and HIS faith among the church, not a worry over the devil and what he does among us..... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Quote: Nicodema said: So from now on, when I don't understand you, I'm just going to give up and wave the white flag. And the description of your frustration gives me indication your choice is a wise one. Not so I can claim some sort of "one-upmanship", but because it seems a good thing not to waste time trying to decipher messages someone (me for instance) might be trying to get across. Not that I wish to be any sort of role model but I often dismiss messages I find difficult to understand, for I believe if God wishes a person to comprehend something, He will make it clear. Since this is an open forum there is someone who will read and understand it, if the Holy Spirit prompted it. [:"red"] "So shall My word be that goes forth out of My mouth: it shall not return to Me void [without producing any effect, useless], but it shall accomplish that which I please and purpose, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it." [/] Isaiah 55:11 AMP [:"red"] "But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. " [/] John 16:13 NASB You have given me a much appreciated compliment by taking the time and effort to make something out of what may have only developed as a result of a misplaced response. Blessings and Keep looking up!! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted February 7, 2006 Share Posted February 7, 2006 Quote: Neil D said: not a worry over the devil and what he does among us..... bold mine LHC That's good theology. [:"red"] "DO NOT let your hearts be troubled (distressed, agitated). You believe in and adhere to and trust in and rely on God; believe in and adhere to and trust in and rely also on Me. " [/] John 14:2 AMP [:"red"] ""And in this fellowship we enjoy the eternal life he promised us. I have written these things to you because you need to be aware of those who want to lead you astray. But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you all things, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie. So continue in what he has taught you, and continue to live in Christ." [/] 1 John 2:25-27 NLT and.... [:"red"] "Keep alert and pray. Otherwise temptation will overpower you. For though the spirit is willing enough, the body is weak!" [/] Matthew 26:41 NLT [:"red"] "Be of sober spirit, be on the alert Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour." [/] 1 Peter 5:8 NASB Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted February 7, 2006 Moderators Share Posted February 7, 2006 Quote: rudywoofs said: Quote: Are there such things as sinners anymore? A related question I've always had is, what exactly is *sin*? From other threads, I've gathered that what might be sin for one person, may not be sin for someone else. So how does a person know for sure what *sin* is? Is it a thought? An idea? Actions? Wishes? Is it to be determined by one's conscience? By feeling guilty? [:"blue"]"..the law was the only way I could learn what sin meant." Rom 7:7 NCV [/] Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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