Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted June 30, 2015 Moderators Share Posted June 30, 2015 My comments have mainly been related to civil government and political. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Gay people tend to be more self-focused than most people. Now some may think that is not fair to say so let me qualify that. That is my experience and those that I have worked with in gay ministries. If you google it, you will find that it is the observation of many others too - including gays themselves. Alcoholics tend to be the same way. When we talk about the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah and that they did not treat the poor well, I always tend to think that would be typical behavior of a group of self-focused people. Of course there are exceptions. There are many loving, kind and generous gay people and alcoholics too. However, as a generalization, gays and alcoholics tend to be more self-focused than most. So it would only makes sense that if Sodom and Gomorrah was filled with gays, they probably were not the greatest place for poor folks to go looking for help. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 GBU and o yes One More thing ... " However, as a generalization, gays and alcoholics tend to be more self-focused than most" Shane. Shane, I mean this with all due respect Sir. _______! I'm glad I got that off my chest. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I understand it is not politically correct to talk about self-centeredness and homosexuality. It certainly doesn't get a lot of press. As I stated, my comments are based on my own experience working with gay ministries and the experience of those in those ministries, Here is one of the few studies that has been done on the subject. Narcissism and self-esteem among homosexual and heterosexual male students. Naomi 1 Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) I understand it is not politically correct to talk about self-centeredness and homosexuality. It certainly doesn't get a lot of press. As I stated, my comments are based on my own experience working with gay ministries and the experience of those in those ministries, Here is one of the few studies that has been done on the subject. Narcissism and self-esteem among homosexual and heterosexual male students. Hi again! Let me just spill it out just a little to get you thinking perhaps in another strata. When gays get married and esp adopt or make children by other means. The focus, in general, gets tuned outward! it sounds so insulting and somethings awry . . and God be with you and yours, #sin is focus on self Edited June 30, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I like this guy! Don't agree with everything but there are gems everywhere here! .......................................................................................................................................... Why Homosexuality Is Not Like Other Sins April 21, 2014 by Jonathan Parnell Topic: Homosexuality Homosexuality is not the only sin mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. It’s not the only sin mentioned, but it is different from all the rest, at least right now. At this moment in history, contrary to the other sins listed here, homosexuality is celebrated by our larger society with pioneering excitement. It’s seen as a good thing, as the new hallmark of progress. To be sure, the masses increasingly make no bones about sin in general. Innumerable people are idolaters, not to mention those who are sexually immoral, or who commit adultery, or who steal and are greedy and get wasted and revile neighbors and swindle others. It happens all the time. And each of these unrepentant sins are the same in the sense of God’s judgment. They all deserve his wrath. And we’re constantly reminded that “such were some of you” (1 Corinthians 6:11). You in the church. Concerning Popular Opinion But as far as I know, none of those sins is applauded so aggressively by whole groups of people who advocate for their normalcy. Sexual immorality is no longer the tip of the spear for the progressive push. Adultery is still frowned upon by many. Accusations of greed will still smear a candidate’s political campaign. Thievery is still not openly embraced, and there are no official initiatives saying it’s okay to go take things that don’t belong to you. There’s no such thing as a drunk agenda yet. Most aren’t proud to choose a beverage over stability, and there aren’t any petitions that the government should abolish the driving restrictions of inebriated individuals. Reviling others still isn’t seen as the best way to win friends and influence people. Swindling, especially on a corporate level, usually gets someone thrown into jail. In fact, the infrastructure of the American economy depends upon, in some measure, our shared disdain for conniving scammers. Perhaps excepting fornication, these sins are still seen in a pretty negative light. But not homosexual practice, not by those who are now speaking loudest and holding positions of prominence. According to the emerging consensus, homosexuality is different. What to Be Against As Christians, we believe with deepest sincerity that the embrace of homosexual practice, along with other sins, keeps people out of the kingdom of God. And if our society celebrates it, we can’t both be caring and not say anything. Too much is at stake. This means it is an oversimplification to say that Christians — or conservative evangelicals — are simply against homosexuality. We are against any sin that restrains people from everlasting joy in God, and homosexual practice just gets all the press because, at this cultural moment, it’s the main sin that is so freshly endorsed in our context by the powers that be. Let’s hope that if there’s some new cultural agenda promoting thievery — one that says it’s now our right to take whatever we want from others by whatever means — that Christians will speak out against it. The issue is sin. That’s what we’re against. And that’s what should make our voice so unique when we speak into this debate. Some would like to see this whole issue of homosexuality divided into two camps: those who celebrate it and those who hate it. Both of these groups exist in our society. There are the growing numbers, under great societal pressure, who praise homosexuality. We might call them the left. And there are people who hate homosexuality, with the most bigoted rationale and apart from any Christian concern. We might call them the right. Those Glorious Words The current debate is plagued by this binary lens. Those on the left try to lump everyone who disagrees with them into that right side. If you don’t support, you hate. Meanwhile, those on the right see compromise and spinelessness in anyone who doesn’t get red-faced and militant. If you don’t hate, you support. But true followers of Christ will walk neither path. We have something to say that no one else is saying, or can say. Distancing ourselves from both the left and the right, we don’t celebrate homosexual practice, we acknowledge God’s clear revealed word that it is sin; and we don’t hate those who embrace homosexuality, we love them enough to not just collapse under the societal pressure. We speak the truth in love into this confusion, saying, simultaneously, “That’s wrong” and “I love you.” We’re not the left; we say, this is wrong. And we’re not the right; we say, you’re loved. We speak good news, with those sweetest, deepest, most glorious words of the cross — the same words that God spoke us — “You’re wrong, and you’re loved.” God tells us we’re wrong, that the wages of sin is death, that unrepentant rebellion means judgment, that our rescue required the cursed death of his Son (Romans 3:23; John 3:36; Galatians 3:13). And God tells us we’re loved, that even while we were sinners, Jesus died for us, that while we were unrighteous, Jesus suffered in our place, that though we were destined for wrath, Jesus welcomes us into glory (Romans 5:8; 1 Peter 3:18; Ephesians 2:1–7). Where the Gospel Shines You’re wrong and you’re loved — that’s the unique voice of the Christian. That’s what we say, speaking from our own experience, as Tim Keller so well puts it, “we’re far worse than we ever imagined, and far more loved than we could ever dream.” That’s our message in this debate, when society’s elites despise us, when pop songs vilify us, when no one else has the resources to say anything outside of two extremes, we have this incomparable opportunity to let the gospel shine, to reach out in grace: you’re wrong and you’re loved. We get to say this. That’s why homosexuality is not like other sins. More Articles from Desiring God: So-Called Same-Sex Marriage: Lamenting the New Calamity Love Letter to a Lesbian 12 Questions to Ask Before You Watch ‘Game of Thrones’ Jonathan Parnell (@jonathanparnell) is the lead pastor of Cities Church in Minneapolis/St. Paul, where he lives with his wife, Melissa, and their five children. He is co-editor of Designed for Joy: How the Gospel Impacts Men and Women, Identity and Practice. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators debbym Posted June 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 30, 2015 it is not sin that keeps us out of the Kingdom of God. all sin is following the will of our fallen nature, our flesh, in spiritual vernacular. all sin, no one has not followed the inclinations of their flesh. it is the status of our relationship to Jesus that determines our salvation, whatever our sin is. it is eternal life to know God, to live by the Spirit, to know Him and the fellowship of His sufferings. Do you know God, Does God recognize His Son in you. Jesus said to the lost, "i never knew you. I do not recognize myself in you, you are not a member of my family, you have no family likeness, you have not become like Jesus. Does your life in some way express the very Character of God, in love for God and love for fallen humanity? Do you love to deny your own nature to live in the very nature of God. Do you partake of divine nature having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust or desire?? Only when you reject a revelation of your Savior will you die. Jesus is the light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. everyone is given light, and everyone determines their own destiny based on their response to that light. There has been given Grace, or there would be no human race today. we would have already been gone if sin was given the power to destroy us. what crushes the wicked is the rock falling on them, because they would not fall on the rock, be broken and live. Pointing out sin is useless, we are all drowning in sin. we are all nothing but sinful without Jesus. We need to be pointing out Jesus. Sin that is pointed out by the Holy Spirit is sin that can be addressed. Jesus alone, by the Spirit, gives light so we can see ourselves as we are before him, and choose if we will enter the kingdom of grace or not. And Jesus does not show anyone all he might regarding their condition of sin. We cannot endure it. as to what is sin... the question of, is homosexuality sin, what proceeds from sinful flesh is sin. If we do not know it is sin, if the Spirit has not pointed it out to us as sin, we cannot do anything about it. Because it is only through the Spirit that anything can be done about any sin. No matter how much bible thumping is done, it equals zero if the Spirit is not bringing it home. We do not Bible thump about something we see as sins, then we go wild about other things we see as sins. I don't think God sees as we see. I will leave homosexuality between the soul and God, just as i place Sabbath keeping or breaking there. We only become guilty when the Spirit has brought it home to us and we reject that. whatever sin it is. and i cannot tell someone what has transpired between them and God. I am not the voice of God. CoAspen 1 Quote deb Love awakens love. Let God be true and every man a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I understand it is not politically correct to talk about self-centeredness and homosexuality. It certainly doesn't get a lot of press. As I stated, my comments are based on my own experience working with gay ministries and the experience of those in those ministries, Here is one of the few studies that has been done on the subject. Narcissism and self-esteem among homosexual and heterosexual male students. I don't think alcoholism is comparable to homosexuality in most context of the psychology of this issue. Most of the time, alcoholism is a symptom rather than a cause, just like sciatica is a general name for a symptom rather than a cause. Most of the time, alcoholism or drug addiction in general is symptomatic of some other psychological imbalance, which creates the dependency and cyclical attachment to that substance as a triggered escape from some other psychological issues. In that sense, I think that 12 step programs tend to do more damage, because they re-enforce the reality of that dependency in minds of people as "the problem" and cover the real problem and solutions with some religious mental addiction. I personally don't find that healthy at all. Likewise, I really don't find it proper citing the "homosexual narcissism" in context of American fundamentalism that marginalized certain groups of people, creating inherent beliefs of cultural inadequacy on the level of these distinctions. It can be done with anyone. People who are obese and are obsessed with problems of such self-image tend to be self-centered. Black people in US created a culture of "swag", because it compensates for the social inadequacy of the generational marginalization. Turning around and citing the color of the skin as a link for some psychological issues would be obscene in this context!The same goes for homosexuality. It's like punching someone in the face, and then telling them that they have anger issues when they respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fccool Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 My personal position on homosexuality - it's none of my business. I don't think we should elevate social adequacy of human being to the issue of sexual identity. There are other more important moral factors... like ... the actual social adequacy in context of harm. Some people treat their pets better than they do other people or kids. I find it to be much much more socially inadequate than two guys having sex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Homosexuals do not have a monopoly on sin any more than heterosexuals that stray from the path of right doing. All people that choose to leave the straight and narrow path that leads to eternal life are in danger of hell fire. The political ramifications of the Supreme Court's recent gay decision are troublesome since God's word is clear on homosexuality and man has judged himself to be wiser than God. Thus man has opened the door for gays to force acceptance of their lifestyle upon those who believe that it is sin, It is one thing to invite others to voluntarily join in sinful behavior or to request that they condone it, but it is quite another thing to compel folks to be accessories to that which they view as sinful. Man has laws about being an accessory before, during, or after a crime. And it would be foolish to think that God did not have them too. As I see it, the Supreme Court has declared independence from God, and God will not be mocked. When the nation's cup is full, God will remove His protection from the nation. DreamWeaver, Naomi and phkrause 3 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 http://tinyurl.com/qgejf22 Oklahoma court: Ten Commandments monument must come down Gay Marriage Ruled Legal Across the United States Is there any doubt as to which direction our nation is heading? 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?.....Revelation 6 God is Love! Jesus saves! Naomi and hch 2 Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 "All have sinned" not just homosexuals. All are born with a sinful nature - not just homosexuals. This is not a matter of "Who shall we be mean to" - it is a matter of 'truth' and whether it should be pc-downsized or just left as it is. If we leave it as it is - then all of us are doomed without the Gospel. And the Gospel causes the new birth - by supernatural means - not natural means. So then we are free to let the Bible speak to the subject of sin -and if a thread is started that is focused on just one sort of sin - well then we can show what the Bible says in that regard - but don't have to be mean spirited at all -- simply to admit to the truth. The facts. We could always look at what the Bible says on the subject Rom 1 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 1 Cor 6 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Lev 18 22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. What about the nation that approves of such things? 24 ‘Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25 For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. 26 But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you 27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); 28 so that the land will not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people. I think that in Canada you cannot read some of these texts over public airwaves... merely reading them is forbidden hch 1 Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted June 30, 2015 Moderators Share Posted June 30, 2015 Interesting to look at all the *other* things listed in those couple of chapters of Leviticus. And to ponder on why it's these ones that get focused on. Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Could have something to do with the title of the thread. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) Interesting to look at all the *other* things listed in those couple of chapters of Leviticus. And to ponder on why it's these ones that get focused on. Those "other things" Could have something to do with the title of the thread. In addition that hasn't been a massive effort to get anyone to celebrate or accept those "other things" as normal and good. Has there been parades claiming pride in thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers and a demand for a national law to make it fair and equal Edited June 30, 2015 by bonnie DreamWeaver 1 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 When gays get married and esp adopt or make children by other means. The focus, in general, gets tuned outward! This is a good point. Of course, we have no reason to believe the gays in Sodom and Gomorrah we getting married and adopting children. So it is quite possible they were very narcissistic. Most of the time, alcoholism is a symptom rather than a cause, just like sciatica is a general name for a symptom rather than a cause. Most of the time, alcoholism or drug addiction in general is symptomatic of some other psychological imbalance, which creates the dependency and cyclical attachment to that substance as a triggered escape from some other psychological issues. Of course we will have to simply agree to disagree. The consensus of the medical community is that alcoholism is a mental disorder which needs treatment. Success rates are very low. While a person can have alcoholism and another mental disorder like bi-polar or schizophrenia, there is no established link between them. (There are gay people with such disorders too but no link between them) Alcoholics do not typically demonstrate any psychological disorders outside of their alcoholism. Narcissism is part of the alcoholic illness in most cases. Interestingly is that alcoholism rates among homosexuals is higher than it is among the general public. Again, please do not confuse hard drinking with alcoholism. The hard drinker can quit given a good reason to do so - the alcoholic cannot. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 This is a good point. Of course, we have no reason to believe the gays in Sodom and Gomorrah we getting married and adopting children. So it is quite possible they were very narcissistic. Well I do understand in this youth and physical appearance worshipping world we live in, does feed each other heights of narcissism.And Homosexual proclivities combined with animal passions opens the door for others to bend their fantasies in places they may have not dreamed of going before. It can apply to all sinners. Since all our bent to self worship. Dry people as a bone even!. Self physical love to the point of worship is very heterosexual also. #its hot here in CA ! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Self physical love to the point of worship is very heterosexual also. #its hot here in CA ! CA seems to be taking quite a shot - http://droughtmonitor.unl.edu/ In a gully by a creek -- I sure do hope your creek is holding up!! Edited July 1, 2015 by BobRyan Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Interesting to look at all the *other* things listed in those couple of chapters of Leviticus. And to ponder on why it's these ones that get focused on. I heard a priest being interviewed on the radio explain that. The gist of his comment was: 'Homosexuality is forbidden in Leviticus, next to the chapter that prohibits eating shell fish.' Naomi 1 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I heard a priest being interviewed on the radio explain that. The gist of his comment was: 'Homosexuality is forbidden in Leviticus, next to the chapter that prohibits eating shell fish.' That priest could use some quality time with an actual Bible! Lev 18 - is right next to Lev 19... Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself". - Matt 22 Christ seems to think Lev 19 is a good thing... so also James in his James 2 statement. Lev 18 is not right next to Lev 11 - regarding shell fish. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 "All have sinned" not just homosexuals. All are born with a sinful nature - not just homosexuals. This is not a matter of "Who shall we be mean to" - it is a matter of 'truth' and whether it should be pc-downsized or just left as it is. If we leave it as it is - then all of us are doomed without the Gospel. And the Gospel causes the new birth - by supernatural means - not natural means. So then we are free to let the Bible speak to the subject of sin -and if a thread is started that is focused on just one sort of sin - well then we can show what the Bible says in that regard - but don't have to be mean spirited at all -- simply to admit to the truth. The facts. We could always look at what the Bible says on the subject Rom 1 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures. 24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 1 Cor 6 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Lev 18 22 You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. What about the nation that approves of such things? 24 ‘Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25 For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. 26 But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you 27 (for the men of the land who have been before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become defiled); 28 so that the land will not spew you out, should you defile it, as it has spewed out the nation which has been before you. 29 For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people. I think that in Canada you cannot read some of these texts over public airwaves... merely reading them is forbidden Well balanced post. Sometimes it is not easy to appear balanced when certain necessary methods of enforcement are revealed. 22But the Israelites encouraged each other and took their positions again at the same place they had fought the previous day. 23For they had gone up to Bethel and wept in the presence of the Lord until evening. They had asked the Lord, “Should we fight against our relatives from Benjamin again?” And the Lord had said, “Go out and fight against them.” 24So the next day they went out again to fight against the men of Benjamin, 25but the men of Benjamin killed another 18,000 Israelites, all of whom were experienced with the sword. 26Then all the Israelites went up to Bethel and wept in the presence of the Lord and fasted until evening. They also brought burnt offerings and peace offerings to the Lord. 27The Israelites went up seeking direction from the Lord. (In those days the Ark of the Covenant of God was in Bethel, 28and Phinehas son of Eleazar and grandson of Aaron was the priest.) The Israelites asked the Lord, “Should we fight against our relatives from Benjamin again, or should we stop?” The Lord said, “Go! Tomorrow I will hand them over to you.” 29So the Israelites set an ambush all around Gibeah. 30They went out on the third day and took their positions at the same place as before. 31When the men of Benjamin came out to attack, they were drawn away from the town. And as they had done before, they began to kill the Israelites. About thirty Israelites died in the open fields and along the roads, one leading to Bethel and the other leading back to Gibeah. 32Then the warriors of Benjamin shouted, “We’re defeating them as we did before!” But the Israelites had planned in advance to run away so that the men of Benjamin would chase them along the roads and be drawn away from the town. 33When the main group of Israelite warriors reached Baal-tamar, they turned and took up their positions. Meanwhile, the Israelites hiding in ambush to the westc of Gibeah jumped up to fight. 34There were 10,000 elite Israelite troops who advanced against Gibeah. The fighting was so heavy that Benjamin didn’t realize the impending disaster. 35So the Lord helped Israel defeat Benjamin, and that day the Israelites killed 25,100 of Benjamin’s warriors, all of whom were experienced swordsmen. 36Then the men of Benjamin saw that they were beaten....Judges 20 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 That priest could use some quality time with an actual Bible! Lev 18 - is right next to Lev 19... Lev 19:18 "Love your neighbor as yourself". - Matt 22 Christ seems to think Lev 19 is a good thing... so also James in his James 2 statement. Lev 18 is not right next to Lev 11 - regarding shell fish. There are a lot of folks that could use some quality time with the Bible. When things that God says are important do's and don'ts: they are important. But when God's dietary laws are tossed out as if they do not matter, it is easier to throw out other instructions that are equally important or more so. A selected messages mentality picks and chooses personal preferences. phkrause and DreamWeaver 2 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Bravus Posted July 1, 2015 Moderators Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) //we have no reason to believe the gays in Sodom and Gomorrah we getting married and adopting children. So it is quite possible they were very narcissistic//We have no reason to believe the people in Sodom and Gomorrah were gay at all. We know they were indiscriminate rapists, we don't know anything about whether any of them were gay by orientation, or the kinds of gay people who might like to marry each other. You're drawing a long, long bow on very flimsy evidence, Shane. I think gay people are people: with all the vices and virtues of people, and probably distributed in about the same ratios. hch - right: you skip the prawns and oysters, but do you also skip haircuts and shaving and wearing clothes woven from mixed fibres? All those things are in that couple of chapters too. Here's an interesting one from Leviticus 19:33 “‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. 34 The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself,for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.How do *you* feel about 'illegals'? Edited July 1, 2015 by Bravus Stan, CoAspen and GayatfootofCross 3 Quote Truth is important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Shane Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Sodom and Gomorrah How do *you* feel about 'illegals'? That would probably take us off topic and go political fast. Personally, (if you are referring to undocumented workers) I feel very good about them. Especially when they invite me to their home and feed me. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted July 3, 2015 Moderators Share Posted July 3, 2015 No, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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