GayatfootofCross Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) What's your point????? What does "not that many years ago" mean to you? 5, maybe 10? or maybe even 15!! I have been a SDA for nearly 50+ years, I have never, at least not at the churches I have attended, seen one member disfellowshipped because of divorce. I have known a few, and when I say a few I mean like 3 that had divorced and on there own decided not to return, because of guilt of being divorced. oh boy! phkrause Hello. GBU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't even know what to say about your experience with Divorce. Talk to the generation before us. They can tell you the social stigma of divorce. As I said o boy to you! Danny Shelton got divorced and got plenty of heat and had to step down. and that was very few years ago! WhatEv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uhhh.. Did you know in the generation the Ladies started bobbing their hair- people thought the end was near? hard to imagine now huh now Divorce is common scriptures for not cutting the Women's hair will be provided upon request .......................... I think u missed my entire point It's ok I see a pattern here. Edited June 29, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 oh boy! phkrause Hello. GBU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't even know what to say about your experience with Divorce. Talk to the generation before us. They can tell you the social stigma of divorce. As I said o boy to you! Danny Shelton got divorced and got plenty of heat and had to step down. and that was very few years ago! WhatEv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uhhh.. Did you know in the generation the Ladies started bobbing their hair- people thought the end was near? hard to imagine now huh scriptures for not cutting the Women's hair will be provided upon request Divorce has what to do with the gay marriage ruling,other than to deflect from a lifestyle you seem to enjoy. Perhaps start a topic on women bobbing their hair. Has absolutely nothing to do with He calls an abomination DreamWeaver, 8thdaypriest, B/W Photodude and 1 other 4 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 (edited) oh boy! phkrause Hello. GBU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't even know what to say about your experience with Divorce. Talk to the generation before us. They can tell you the social stigma of divorce. As I said o boy to you! Danny Shelton got divorced and got plenty of heat and had to step down. and that was very few years ago! WhatEv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uhhh.. Did you know in the generation the Ladies started bobbing their hair- people thought the end was near? hard to imagine now huh now Divorce is common scriptures for not cutting the Women's hair will be provided upon request .......................... I think u missed my entire point It's ok I see a pattern here. Indeed there is a pattern. I have said it before,this tactic is the same my boys used to try. At least they were young kids. If one found himself in trouble it didn't take long to try to shift the focus to the wrongdoing of his brothers.Anything to prevent a discussion and focus on their current behavior. In time they learned it did not take away the consequence of their wrongdoing. The only way their tactic would have had value is if their father and I said the wrongdoing of their brother's was okay. The "sin" being dealt with didn't have anything to do condoning other behavior,nor was it necessary to run thru a list of sins we found as objectionable Edited June 29, 2015 by bonnie Naomi and DreamWeaver 2 Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 "In a way it’s a modern-day parable – those who preach tolerance are the least tolerant of all." http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/06/29/tolerance-vs-pride-spit-on-by-parade-goers-catholic-priest-has-this-message.html Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted June 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 30, 2015 oh boy! phkrause Hello. GBU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't even know what to say about your experience with Divorce. Talk to the generation before us. They can tell you the social stigma of divorce. As I said o boy to you! Danny Shelton got divorced and got plenty of heat and had to step down. and that was very few years ago! WhatEv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uhhh.. Did you know in the generation the Ladies started bobbing their hair- people thought the end was near? hard to imagine now huh now Divorce is common scriptures for not cutting the Women's hair will be provided upon request .......................... I think u missed my entire point It's ok I see a pattern here. As a fourth generation SDA I must say that divorce is certainly not the ideal situation. OTOH there have been people who divorced long before my entrance into this world. People who remained in the church and were treated with respect. Now, you can't put every divorce into the same category, there are reasons that a divorced person may have been sanctioned due to unacceptable behavior. As for Danny Shelton's divorce, there were many extenuating factors involved with the divorce. Numerous individuals seemed to feel it was their responsibility to share information which often was based on limited or no truth. As for women bobbing their hair .................... hey friend, go for it, make it an issue .... phkrause 1 Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 As a fourth generation SDA I must say that divorce is certainly not the ideal situation. OTOH there have been people who divorced long before my entrance into this world. People who remained in the church and were treated with respect. Now, you can't put every divorce into the same category, there are reasons that a divorced person may have been sanctioned due to unacceptable behavior. As for Danny Shelton's divorce, there were many extenuating factors involved with the divorce. Numerous individuals seemed to feel it was their responsibility to share information which often was based on limited or no truth. As for women bobbing their hair .................... hey friend, go for it, make it an issue .... LOL! Naomi! Well only when Reba McEntire bobbed hers was it a Scandal from what I've heard. She grew it back! Ever read 'Cheaper by the Dozen' by the Gilbreths (a fond memoir of their American family in the 1920's)? The almost grown daughters were threatened with being put in a convent if they ever even considered cutting off their glory, by their father. The Church were up in arms about it back then. Sermons against it and Public Denunciations Like Divorce. Like perhaps ... uhh.. Gay Marriage now? Maybe many straight people will always think of gays as different from them..therefore forming a union always be an issue? . In my short life, in my Church- I watched Christian Parents get upset if one of the adult children going to marry a a divorced person. Ever been to a Bill Gothard seminar? A total spiritual break Down of family that never recovers fully. Yes? No? I even heard testimonies of people who got divorced and shunned (cant have a person who used to be married now looking at what else is available) then had to go to a new church. So now let a few generations pass with Gay Marriages and you will see Good Christian People type .."Im so and so years old and never saw a church problem with it!" ??? I think Christ will come before then. My whole point in bringing all this up is God is growing His Church! #there are a few Sects from our Church that can tell you how evil it is when a women does not let her hair grow long -I know people. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) As a fourth generation SDA I must say that divorce is certainly not the ideal situation. OTOH there have been people who divorced long before my entrance into this world. People who remained in the church and were treated with respect. Now, you can't put every divorce into the same category, there are reasons that a divorced person may have been sanctioned due to unacceptable behavior. As for Danny Shelton's divorce, there were many extenuating factors involved with the divorce. Numerous individuals seemed to feel it was their responsibility to share information which often was based on limited or no truth. As for women bobbing their hair .................... hey friend, go for it, make it an issue .... Yeah that Divorce thing with Danny hit me up hard. I watched them all before that moment holding hands together looking .. so ..so heterosexual. I'm still so old fashioned. I had to seek GOD in that when it happened. And I am not even the one he divorced! ..or remarried ! Edited June 30, 2015 by GayatfootofCross Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted June 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 30, 2015 Yeah that Divorce thing with Danny hit me up hard. I had to seek GOD in that when it happened. And I am not even the one he divorced! Well, there appears to be something good that came our of Danny & Linda's divorce .... you had to seek GOD Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Well, there appears to be something good that came our of Danny & Linda's divorce .... you had to seek GOD Yes good point! I seek him every time I get wrecked! Or joyed up! Coming to Danny's Divorce God showed me a few things I never thought of before. It was in the Bible all this time. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Naomi Posted June 30, 2015 Administrators Share Posted June 30, 2015 Well Gay you obviously have had more time than I to keep up with all the issues in our church and in the entertainment field. I will say this about that is that for many years I lived in the same small town as Reba McEntire therefore much of her life became public information. As for cutting her hair, Reba is an entertainer and her income is derived from her music and personal image. I would find it surprising if a SDA pastor used her hair cut as their Divine Worship topic. But who knows, strange things are happening As for Christian parents getting upset over their child considering marrying a divorced person. This does not apply just to Christians. Non Christians often object to their child considering marriage to a divorced person. A young person who is divorced often has a ready made family which presents many issues. The baggage is greater and second marriages often result in divorce. That is a completely different set of issues to be considered and as parents we want only the best for our children. phkrause 1 Quote If your dreams are not big enough to scare you, they are not big enough for God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; GayatfootofCross says this! uh hum... Naomi, Well my mother appears so shallow and star gossip is th :)e only thing she talks about as a bonding agent. I hear it all. I'm not even into country music. well Who could resist Dolly Parton and Linda Ronstadt.of the 1970's? . and Thank you for the important point of Parents looking out for their Hearth. I myself have a chip off the ole Block who is 31. Watching him navigate is a little overwhelming sometimes. And I was thinking particular of a case i saw way too close with no children involved or anything like that. It was against God's original plan for heterosexuals that was at stake in their lives and was made to know that everytime. It got winded. It got dirty. and they did not marry. The Mother of Israel was happy. I guess. I saw other things but from further away. . To get real personal for just a moment. Naomi.I took everything in as it was Godsend. As a young zeolot for the LORD.. I hung on their words I look to Christians on how to be at my young age. I was talking about Marriage with this very beautiful former model now new SDA young Lady. We were starstruck! My head was in the clouds and started talking marriage after a few weeks. (ugh) ...then She told me she is Divorced. ! I knew I couldn't stay in fellowship with the people I admired most in that Church If I were to Marry her. I run with a rough crowd! BTW I think we are all happy about that now! She found me on FB! Oh the stories we shared! She is now with Hubby # 4 or 5? ( the other two were from my church! ) And before me there was her husband then whats his name got with her and swooped then divorced again again and got married again to that exhipster feller. But I digress! thank you for giving me a chance to explore my stake in it in front of everyone . # It is not gossip when a tragically beautiful new SDA Young Lady Model comes out of nowhere and dates three of your finest young christian men in a row in your Small SDA Country Church.Two she marries and the other one's gone gAY! It is History! Edited June 30, 2015 by GayatfootofCross idont knowwhat happened! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 June 29, 2015Some Advice on Same-Sex Marriage for US Church Leaders From a Canadian On Friday, the US Supreme Court ruled that same-sex couples can now marry in all 50 states, setting off a flurry of reaction by Christians and virtually everyone else on social media and beyond. Ed Stetzer wrote a helpful background post to the shift in opinion that led to the decision and included links to a number of other leading articles in his post. The social media reaction ranged from surprising to predictable to disappointing to occasionally refreshing. I write from the perspective of a pastor of an evangelical church in a country where same sex-marriage has been the law of the land for a decade. That does not mean I hold any uniquely deep wisdom, but it does mean we’ve had a decade to process and pray over the issue. I hope what I offer can help. It’s my perspective. My fingers tremble at the keyboard because my goal is to help in the midst of a dialogue that seems far more divisive than it is uniting or constructive. There will be many who disagree with me, I’m sure, but I hope it pulls debate away from the “sky is falling/this is the best thing ever” dichotomy that seems to characterize much of the dialogue so far. The purpose of this post is not to take a position or define matters theologically (for there is so much debate around that). Rather, the purpose of this post is to think through how to respond as a church when the law of the land changes as fundamentally as it’s changing on same-sex marriage and many other issues. Here are 5 perspectives I hope are helpful as church leaders of various positions on the subject think and pray through a way forward. 1. The church has always been counter-cultural Most of us reading this post have been born into a unique season in history in which our culture is moving from a Christian culture to a post-Christian culture before our eyes. Whatever you think about history, theology or exactly when this shift happened, it’s clear for all of us that the world into which we were born no longer exists. Viewpoints that were widely embraced by culture just decades ago are no longer embraced. For some this seems like progress. For others, it seems like we’re losing something. Regardless, things have changed fundamentally. But is that really such a big deal? For most of the last 2000 years, the authentic church has been counter-cultural. The church was certainly counter-cultural in the first century. Even at the height of ‘Christendom’ (whenever that was), the most conservative historians would agree that Christianity as embraced by the state was different than the authentic Christianity we read about in scripture or that was practiced by many devout followers of Jesus. Being counter-cultural usually helps the church more than hurts it. Being counter-cultural usually helps the church more than it hurts it. Click To Tweet If you think about it, regardless of your theological position, all your views as a Christian are counter-cultural and always will be. If your views are cultural, you’re probably not reading the scriptures closely enough. Regardless of your theological position, all your views as a Christian should be counter-cultural. Click To Tweet We’re at our best when we offer an alternative, not just a reflection of a diluted or hijacked spirituality. 2. It’s actually strange to ask non-Christians to hold Christian values As the Barna Group has pointed out, a growing number of people in America are best described as post-Christian. The majority of Canadians would certainly qualify as having a post-Christian worldview. The question Christians in a post-Christian culture have to ask themselves is this: Why would we expect non-Christians to behave like Christians? If you believe sex is a gift given by God to be experienced between a man and a woman within marriage, why would you expect people who don’t follow Christ to embrace that? Why would we expect people who don’t profess to be Christians to: Wait until marriage to have sex? Clean up their language? Stop smoking weed? Be faithful to one person for life? Pass laws like the entire nation was Christian? Seriously? Why? Why do Christians expect non-Christians to behave like Christians? Why? Click To Tweet Most people today are not pretending to be Christians. So why would they adopt Christian values or morals? Please don’t get me wrong. I’m a pastor. I completely believe that the Jesus is not only the Way, but that God’s way is the best way. When you follow biblical teachings about how to live life, your life simply goes better. It just does. I 100 percent agree. I do everything I personally can to align my life with the teachings of scripture, and I’m passionate about helping every follower of Christ do the same. But what’s the logic behind judging people who don’t follow Jesus for behaving like people who don’t follow Jesus? Why would you hold the world to the same standard you hold the church? First, non-Christians usually act more consistently with their value system than you do. It’s difficult for a non-Christian to be a hypocrite because they tend to live out what they believe. Chances are they are better at living out their values than you or I are. Jesus never blamed pagans for acting like pagans. But he did speak out against religious people for acting hypocritically. Think about that. Non-Christians usually act more consistently with their value system than Christians do. Click To Tweet 3. You’ve been dealing with sex outside of traditional marriage for a LONG time If you believe gay sex is sinful, it’s really no morally different than straight sex outside of marriage. Be honest, pretty much every unmarried person in your church is having sex (yes, even the Christians). I know you want to believe that’s not true (trust me, I want to believe that’s not true), but why don’t you ask around? You’ll discover that only a few really surrender their sexuality. Not to mention the married folks that struggle with porn, lust and a long list of other dysfunctions. If you believe gay marriage is not God’s design, you’re really dealing with the same issue you’ve been dealing with all along—sex outside of its God-given context. You don’t need to treat it any differently. By the way, if you don’t deal with straight sex outside of marriage, don’t start being inconsistent and speak out against gay sex. And you may want to start dealing with gluttony and gossip and greed while you’re at it. (I wrote more here about how to get the hypocrisy out of our sex talk in church.) At least be consistent…humbly address all forms of sex outside of marriage. The dialogue is possible. (Andy Stanley offers a great rationale for sex staying inside marriage here.) We have that dialogue all the time at our church. And people are grateful for it. We also talk about our greed, our gluttony, our jealousy and our hypocrisy as Christians. It’s amazing. Jesus brings healing to all these areas of life, including our sex lives. If you don’t talk about straight sex outside of marriage, don’t talk about gay sex. Click To Tweet 4. The early church never looked to the government for guidance Having a government that doesn’t embrace the church’s values line for line actually puts Christians in some great company—the company of the earliest followers of Jesus. Jesus spent about zero time asking the government to change during his ministry. In fact, people asked him to become the government, and he replied that his Kingdom is not of this world. The Apostle Paul appeared before government officials regularly. Not once did he ask them to change the laws of the land. He did, however, invite government officials to have Jesus personally change them. Paul constantly suffered at the hands of the authorities, ultimately dying under their power, but like Jesus, didn’t look to them for change. Rather than asking the government to release him from prison, he wrote letters from prison talking about the love of Jesus Christ. Instead of looking to the government for help, Paul and Jesus looked to God. None of us in the West are suffering nearly as radically as Jesus and Paul suffered at the hands of a government. In fact, in Canada and the US, our government protects our freedom to assemble and even disagree with others. Plus, it gives us tax breaks for donations. We honestly don’t have it that hard. Maybe the future North American church will be more like the early church, rising early, before dawn, to pray, to encourage, to break bread. Maybe we will pool our possessions and see the image of God in women. And love our wives radically and deeply with a protective love that will shock the culture. Maybe we will treat others with self-giving love, and even offer our lives in place of theirs. Maybe we’ll be willing to lose our jobs, our homes, our families and even our lives because we follow Jesus. That might just touch off a revolution like it did two millennia ago. Perhaps the government might even take notice, amazed by the love that radical Jesus followers display. Instead of looking to the government for help, Paul and Jesus looked to God. Click To Tweet 5. Our judgment of LGBT people is destroying any potential relationship Even the first 72 hour of social media reaction has driven a deeper wedge between Christian leaders and the LGBT community Jesus loves (yes, Jesus died for the world because he loves it). Judgment is a terrible evangelism strategy. People don’t line up to be judged. Judgment is a terrible evangelism strategy. People don’t line up to be judged. Instead, they flee. Click To Tweet If you want to keep being ineffective at reaching unchurched people, keep judging them. Judging outsiders is un-Christian. Paul told us to stop judging people outside the church. Jesus said God will judge us by the same standard with which we judge others. If you want to be ineffective at reaching unchurched people, judge them. Click To Tweet Paul also reminds us to drop the uppity-attitude; that none of us were saved by the good we did but by grace. Take a deep breath. You were saved by grace. Your sins are simply different than many others. And honestly, in many respects, they are the same. People don’t line up to be judged. But they might line up to be loved. So love people. Especially the people with whom you disagree. Love people. Especially the people with whom you disagree. Click To Tweet Those are a few of the things I’ve learned and I’m struggling with. The dialogue is not easy when culture is changing and people who sincerely love Jesus sincerely disagree. I think there’s more hope than there is despair for the future. The radical ethic of grace and truth found in Jesus is more desperately needed in our world today than ever before. Is the path crystal clear? No. But rather than being a set back, perhaps this can move the church yet another step closer to realizing its true mission. I was tempted to close comments off on this post, but I will leave them open just to see if we can continue the discussion constructively and humbly. Rants and abusive viewpoints (on either side) will be deleted. Show grace. Respect those with whom you disagree. If you want to leave a comment that helps, please do so. But please spend at least as much time praying for the situation and for people you know who have been hurt by this dialogue as you do commenting on this post, on others like it or on your social media channels. Maybe spend more time praying, actually. That’s what we all really need. And that’s what will move the mission of the church forward. Related How Sex, Love and Marriage Are A Lot Like LeadershipDecember 13, 2013In "Leadership" 5 Things Every Church Leader Can Learn from the Mark Driscoll SituationAugust 27, 2014In "Leadership" How To Reach Unchurched People Who Don't Think They Need GodMay 10, 2013In "Connexus" Did you find this post helpful? Did you like this post? Never miss another one again by subscribing! Post navigation CNLP 042: The Enterpreneurial Church Leader–An Interview with Brady Shearer 5 Early Leadership Mistakes I Made (That You You Don’t Need To) Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Christians who refuse to cater to gays can also now potentially be sued by gay activists and incarcerated by the government; and faith-based organizations that out of conscience (right or wrong) can lose thie tax-free status and/or any federal grants or contracts if they refuse service to gays (i.e., the door has been opened for legal persecution of Christians who are simply following what they believe to be God's word). You, being a believer, may not partake in those activities; but we both know there are anti-Christian gay activists that are chomping at the bit for this opportunity. While I may not agree with those who would refuse service to gays, I am adamantly against restricting the religious liberty of those who are simply following what they see as God's Word. This ruling adversely impacts a helluva lot more people than an opposite ruling. The market place could just as easily sorted this out. This is also one more reason to persecute Muslims. How many mosques do you think will open their doors to gay weddings? As I read this and other posts I've made on the subject, it would be easy to assume that I am anti-gay. I am not. I am anti-government mandated morality. Those who believe that homosexuality is an abomination have the same rights as those who believe otherwise. When the government has to tell us what is moral and what is not, I can't help but conclude that the Body of Christ thus far has failed in the great commission. To me it matters not whether the government is mandating gay marriage or Sunday observance; the government has no right to mandate its moral code on me - only God has that right. When the government usurps God's authority, they are setting up the beast power. Thing is, in Matthew 28 Jesus says that ALL authority in heaven and earth belongs to Him. How much authority does that leave for satan? NONE! How much authority does that leave for satan's minions who appear to be running the planet now? NONE!! Legalizing gay marriage is not the problem - it is only a symptom of the true problem - government mandating and redefining morality (setting up a state religion?). It is true that satan is roaming around like a hungry lion, seeking whom he can devour. Why? Because he knows he has but a short time. His time is almost at an end; and soon we shall see the King of Glory take the dominion which His authority grants Him. Look up! Your redemption draweth nigh! 8thdaypriest and Naomi 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8thdaypriest Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I remember - back in the 70's - the sex free-for-all s, they called "love ins". The song, "What the World Needs Now, is Love, Sweet Love" came out. "Love" was defined as not criticizing the sexual behaviors of others. It was called the "sexual revolution". It absolutely CHANGED this nation, and the world. But fornication was not declared a "right" by SCOTUS, nor were fornicators declared a protected "class". Nor was anyone punished with fines or loss of tax exempt status for preaching against fornication. The word "fornication" in the Bible, means "unlawful sexual behavior". The LAW which defines lawful and unlawful sexual behavior is God's Law. With the man-made laws protecting LGBT and their behaviors, everything has CHANGED again. Persecution is here, and will become worse and worse and worse. This man-made law, will be used as a wedge and a hammer against those who believe in the Law of God. The "separation of church and state" has been used as a wedge, to abolish the teaching of "intelligent design" in the public schools. The only acceptable science is Godless science. Those who find science supports "intelligent design" cannot receive accreditation or funding grants, and most often loose their academic positions. The SAME will become true of anyone teaching against LGBT practice. We see a WAR very systematically waged against those who believe in God and are obedient to His Word. SDAs all thought "sunday laws" would bring about persecution. No one - 25 years ago, could have imagined that gay "marriage" and a protected LGBT class, would bring persecution of those who preach the Word of God. Wow! Quote 8thdaypriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8thdaypriest Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I am actually in favor of a "flat tax". No tax deductions - period. No graduated scale. Everyone (rich and poor) just pays 10% on their entire increase. Businesses and investors CAN subtract losses from their income, to calculate their "increase". Quote 8thdaypriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) A short time ago I read a few articles by gay activists stressing how important the legalizing of gay marriage was to the gay and lesbian agenda. Once it was declared a right the real work in the churches could begin to obtain full equality with straight members. Best achieved by overwhelming churches with attendance by "Godly,christian committed married couples". Large numbers of gay couples living an exemplary life would be in a position to sway the thinking and ban on membership in conservative churches. Gays and lesbians can only obtain full equal rights when they are accorded the same privileges that straight couples are. Now some churches are beginning to express the same concerns about the impact on their congregations and the ability to hold to their stated beliefs. Many SDA's will never see it coming in the interest of "loving acceptance" of the gay lifestyle The gay agenda is hardly the harmless little fuzz ball it appears in only wanting to marry the "one they love". The gospel is to change the sinner. Not change the gospel to suit the sin i Edited June 30, 2015 by bonnie Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 AlfonzoRachel gives his opinions on the liberal and gay issues! ZoNATION: Gotcha! Now I'm Gonna Pray the Gay Outta You! Naomi 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Thank you for sharing. B/WPhotodude! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I used to work with two nurses that repeatedly got into a heated discussion... Mertice would say, "If the girls would only keep their skirts down..." And Helen would reply, "If boys would only keep their zippers zipped..." One day when Mertice and Helen were rehashing this contentious topic, A co-worker, Lynn, asked if I had figured out why Mertice and Helen were so sure of their facts Lynn explained: "Mertice has 3 sons and Helen has 3 daughters." Isn't it interesting how this topic reminds me of that? GayatfootofCross and Naomi 2 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeHiscost Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Why do Christians expect non-Christians to behave like Christians? Why? [/quote] …13for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them,…Romans 2 …19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.…Romans 1 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 This site has an interesting video by a rabbi who tells it straight. http://conservativetribune.com/rabbi-chilling-warning/?utm_source%3DEmail&utm_medium%3DShareButton&utm_campaign%3DESSB Naomi 1 Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted July 2, 2015 Author Share Posted July 2, 2015 6 Ways Christians Lost This Week July 1, 2015 / johndpav We who call ourselves Christians lost a great deal over the past few days, though it’s probably not in the way you might think. 1) We lost the chance to be loving. So many professed followers of Jesus spent the last week on the attack, desperately fighting a battle long after it had already been decided. Instead of simply looking for ways to personally affirm our faith in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision, too many of us frankly just lost it. We spit out vitriol and we cursed strangers and we lamented America’s demise and we threatened with Bible verses and we treated others with contempt. Our response to the LGBT community and those who support them wasn’t compassion and decency and peacemaking, it was sour grapes, damnation, and middle fingers. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:35 2) We lost the chance to be good neighbors. Rather than using the events of this past week as the springboard for conversation with people around us; as a way to build relationship with those who may not share our beliefs or our worldview, we pushed them further away. We used our social media profiles and our workplaces and our cul-de-sac chats to create distance between us and those who disagree with us. We stood on principles and we walked all over people. We became really difficult to live with and be around. He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” Luke 10:27 3) We lost the chance to be Good Samaritans. We could have looked around at the hurt generated this past week; at the deep sadness so many LGBT people and their loved ones felt at being the center of such violent arguments and the horrible aftermath of them. We could have responded with mercy and gentleness, seeking to be the binders of the wounds. Instead, far too many of us stood on our soap boxes and rubbed salt deeply into them. We basically walked past those who were down—and we kicked them hard on the way. “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” Luke 10:36-37 4) We lost the opportunity to show how big God is. With all the fatalistic sky is falling rhetoric and raw-throated “The End is Near” prognostications, what so many Christians did for the watching world was inadvertently paint the image of a God who is hopelessly on the ropes; not all-powerful, not all-knowing, not at all able to withstand the slightest changes in our world. We completely neutered God by horribly overstating the circumstances and crying wolf yet again. “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 5) We lost the chance to reflect Christ. Let’s be honest: some of us really dropped the ball this week on both sides of the discussions. Many of us crusaded on social media or staged tirades from the pulpit or spewed hatred across dinner tables. We argued and petitioned and boycotted and protested, and we did just about everything but leave people with the sweet, restful essence of Jesus. We instead left them a Christ devoid of compassion or kindness or love, and we ensured that many who previously saw all Christians as judgmental, hypocritical jerks—felt completely correct in those assumptions. Faced with people who disagreed with us, we talked about them, shouted at them, yet failed to listen to them. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Matthew 5:16 6) We lost people. We gave those who live outside of our faith tradition, very little reason to move any closer. By choosing to be rude and argumentative and hateful, we made Jesus fairly irrelevant; an option not really worth considering. Make no mistake, the eyes of the world were fully on the American Church this week, and too much of what they saw was a pretty lousy testimony to a God of love. Many people looked at the rotten fruit of our faith and simply turned away for good. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! Matthew 18:7 This stuff should simply break our collective hearts. All of us who claim Christ need to do some honest, invasive personal reflection. Regardless of our feelings about the Supreme Court’s decision, it’s clear that Christians lost far more valuable things than a 5 to 4 vote this week; things that we better fight like Hell to get back. About these ads Share this: Facebook10K+ Twitter97 Google Pinterest10 Reddit Print Email Post navigation ← Somewhere After The Rainbow (Moving Beyond Profile Pics) Leave a Reply Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6 Ways Christians Lost This Week July 1, 2015 / johndpav We who call ourselves Christians lost a great deal over the past few days, though it’s probably not in the way you might think. 1) We lost the chance to be loving. So many professed followers of Jesus spent the last week on the attack, desperately fighting a battle long after it had already been decided. Instead of simply looking for ways to personally affirm our faith in the wake of the Supreme Court’s decision, too many of us frankly just lost it. We spit out vitriol and we cursed strangers and we lamented America’s demise and we threatened with Bible verses and we treated others with contempt. Our response to the LGBT community and those who support them wasn’t compassion and decency and peacemaking, it was sour grapes, damnation, and middle fingers. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.” John 13:35 2) We lost the chance to be good neighbors. Rather than using the events of this past week as the springboard for conversation with people around us; as a way to build relationship with those who may not share our beliefs or our worldview, we pushed them further away. We used our social media profiles and our workplaces and our cul-de-sac chats to create distance between us and those who disagree with us. We stood on principles and we walked all over people. We became really difficult to live with and be around. He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” Luke 10:27 3) We lost the chance to be Good Samaritans. We could have looked around at the hurt generated this past week; at the deep sadness so many LGBT people and their loved ones felt at being the center of such violent arguments and the horrible aftermath of them. We could have responded with mercy and gentleness, seeking to be the binders of the wounds. Instead, far too many of us stood on our soap boxes and rubbed salt deeply into them. We basically walked past those who were down—and we kicked them hard on the way. “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?” The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” Luke 10:36-37 4) We lost the opportunity to show how big God is. With all the fatalistic sky is falling rhetoric and raw-throated “The End is Near” prognostications, what so many Christians did for the watching world was inadvertently paint the image of a God who is hopelessly on the ropes; not all-powerful, not all-knowing, not at all able to withstand the slightest changes in our world. We completely neutered God by horribly overstating the circumstances and crying wolf yet again. “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” John 16:33 5) We lost the chance to reflect Christ. Let’s be honest: some of us really dropped the ball this week on both sides of the discussions. Many of us crusaded on social media or staged tirades from the pulpit or spewed hatred across dinner tables. We argued and petitioned and boycotted and protested, and we did just about everything but leave people with the sweet, restful essence of Jesus. We instead left them a Christ devoid of compassion or kindness or love, and we ensured that many who previously saw all Christians as judgmental, hypocritical jerks—felt completely correct in those assumptions. Faced with people who disagreed with us, we talked about them, shouted at them, yet failed to listen to them. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Matthew 5:16 6) We lost people. We gave those who live outside of our faith tradition, very little reason to move any closer. By choosing to be rude and argumentative and hateful, we made Jesus fairly irrelevant; an option not really worth considering. Make no mistake, the eyes of the world were fully on the American Church this week, and too much of what they saw was a pretty lousy testimony to a God of love. Many people looked at the rotten fruit of our faith and simply turned away for good. Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to stumble! Such things must come, but woe to the person through whom they come! Matthew 18:7 This stuff should simply break our collective hearts. All of us who claim Christ need to do some honest, invasive personal reflection. Regardless of our feelings about the Supreme Court’s decision, it’s clear that Christians lost far more valuable things than a 5 to 4 vote this week; things that we better fight like Hell to get back. About these ads Share this: Facebook10K+ Twitter97 Google Pinterest10 Reddit Print Email
LifeHiscost Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 6 Ways Christians Lost This Week July 1, 2015 / johndpav {quote] If given the choice to be hateful or silent, silence is always the best option. 7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth....Isaiah 53 32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth...Acts 8 God is Love! Jesus saves! Quote Lift Jesus up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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