bonnie Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 (edited) BREAKING: Federal Judge Makes Stunning Order To Kim Davis Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis gestures as she refuses to issue marriage licenses to a same-sex couple in Morehead, Kentucky September 1, 2015, in a still image from video provided by WLEX. REUTERS/WLEX/LEX18.com Davis has refused to order gay marriage licenses... Randy DeSoto September 3, 2015 at 11:4 A federal judged has ordered Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis to jail for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. According to the Chicago Tribune, U.S. District Judge David Bunning told Davis “she would be jailed until she complied with his order to issue marriage licenses “The court cannot condone the willful disobedience of its lawfully issued order,” Judge Bunning said. “If you give people the opportunity to choose which orders they follow, that’s what potentially causes problems.” The Tribune also reported that “Davis said ‘thank you’ before she was led out of the courtroom by a U.S. marshal. She was not in handcuffs.” Earlier, the Christian woman told Fox News’ Todd Starnes: “I’ve weighed the cost and I’m prepared to go to jail, I sure am. This has never been a gay or lesbian issue for me. This is about upholding the word of God.” She said it would violate her beliefs to affix her signature to same sex marriage license Christian teaching on marriage originates in the book of Genesis, which Jesus affirms in the New Testament, saying: “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?’ So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.” As reported by Western Journalism, the ACLU of Kentucky filed a contempt of court motion against Davis for failing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples. On Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to stay a 6th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling requiring Davis to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples while her religious liberty case proceeded in federal court. Speaking to Starnes before appearing in federal court Thursday, Davis said, “I would have to either make a decision to stand or I would have to buckle down and leave. And if I left, resigned or chose to retire, I would have no voice for God’s word.” “I’m very steadfast in what I believe. I don’t leave my conscience and my Christian soul out in my vehicle and come in here and pretend to be something I’m not. It’s easy to talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?” she added. Davis became a Christian in 2011 after what she describes as a “sordid past,” during which she was married and divorced three times before marrying her current husband. “I had created such a pit of sin for myself with my very own hands,” she told the reporter. The clerk has received death threats because of her stand. “They told my husband they were going to burn us down while we slept in our home,” she said. “He’s been told that he would be beaten up and tied up and made to watch them rape me. I have been told that gays should kill me.” Her husband, Joe Davis, has made clear, amidst these threats, that he is a strong advocate of the Second Amendment. “I’m an old redneck hillbilly, that’s all I’ve got to say. Don’t come knocking on my door,” hesaid. Regarding the current national spotlight she finds herself in, Davis revealed her source of peace amidst the storm: “My God in heaven knows every crack, every crevice, every deep place in my heart,” she said. “And he knows the thoughts that are in my mind before I even think them. And he has given me such a beautiful and wonderful grace through all of this.” Christians over the past two thousand years have been imprisoned, and even gone to their deaths, because their beliefs conflicted with the government, including the greats of the faith like the Apostles Peter and Paul. Davis is seeking to be faithful in the times in which she lives. “I’m just a vessel God has chosen for this time and this place,” she said. “I’m no different than any other Christian. It was my appointed time to stand, and their time will come.” Edited September 3, 2015 by bonnie Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie-Jess Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) She'll be in my prayers. Please pray for her, too. The judge is trying to change her mind. Some day, this will happen to us--too, if we continue to be faithful to God--in one way or another. Read the warnings in Scripture and in sister White's writings. And what about hate crimes, or in this case threats of hate crimes/retaliation committed against her. Will the judge answer those? Threats of rape and murder are serious under normal circumstances and to be taken seriously. Will the authorities at least do something about that? Wouldn't something like that coming from someone else (such as a Muslim) be considered a terrorist threat? Why should they get away with it? They shouldn't. But, if they do, if the authorities do nothing about this, then our country is in an even sorrier state. Where's the love? Where's the respect for God's commandments, God's people, and freedom of conscience? Kim Davis can be locked up for who-knows-how-long for refusing to issue a marriage license that the couple probably could have gotten somewhere else, a judge locks her up even when the couple didn't specifically ask (or did they change their mind) for her to be locked up, and then are they going to let those threatening her life walk free? Our country is truly twisted and sick if they allow that to happen. At the very least, they should deal with these threats, too. Please keep us updated. I'd like to know if the authorities will do anything about the threats against her, because those threats against her and her husband are terrorist threats. You want christians to love and respect you (A true Christian will be full of the love of Christ, even for lost sinners and those rebelling against God, but will not sanction those sins)? Well, love and respect them, even if they don't agree with and won't sanction your lifestyle. Treat others how you'd desire to be treated. (By "you" I mean those who are talking bad about/threatening to kill Kim Davis, and everyone of a similar manner and profession.) Kim Davis was called a hypocrite, and whether or not she is is between her and God, and will be made clear at least before the unfallen universe, but those accusations are judgmental and hateful in themselves. You want respect and love, treat others with respect and love (even if you don't get the same from them). You want your beliefs respected, then respect theirs. If you can't respect theirs, at least love them and respect their rights to choose, and their humanity. If the non-straight group and their supporters want to be treated in such a manner, then they should treat others in such a manner. Christians aren't the only hypocrites out there. I see hypocrisy in this movement, too. Edited September 4, 2015 by Jessie-Jess Please forgive me of my ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 The clerk has received death threats because of her stand. “They told my husband they were going to burn us down while we slept in our home,” she said. “He’s been told that he would be beaten up and tied up and made to watch them rape me. I have been told that gays should kill me.” If this woman is an elected official, a recall vote is one way to remove her from office. It is quite clear where the malevolent spirit of the murderous God-haters comes from. When law and order no longer exist in this country, Christians, Jews, and other good people of faith must flee the killing mobs. The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2015 She was not convicted of a crime under the statute, which would have carried a specific, time limited (Even a life sentence is limited to the length of one's life.) sentence. Rather she was convicted of "contempt of court." Such a sentence has a basic sentence until compliance with the order of the judge. However, the term "until compliance" may have some limits. [NOTE: I have not researched this as it is applied to this specific case.] On this basis, It is not accurate to state that it reasonably could be a life sentence. Such a statement reflects a misunderstanding of the law. . . . it's unreasonable for the judge to make that kind of demand. A month, two months, three years, twenty years, that's not the same as "until she complies". If she continues to follow her conscience and the Bible and do what she believes will please God, then she may be in jail for the rest of her life under that order. It's unreasonable! The judge is trying to change her mind. It would be more reasonable for him to just give her a sentence in a number of weeks, months, years or whatever. Otherwise, she could be in there as long as a murderer under that kind of ruling. Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2015 The point is not that the couple could have gotten the license elsewhere. Perhaps that it true. The point is that as an elected official, her job was to provide the services to all entitled to them without discrimination. When circumstances changed so that doing so would violate her conscience, she should have resigned. . . . refusing to issue a marriage license that the couple probably could have gotten somewhere else, Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2015 Criminal sanctions are not based upon the will of a person wringed. They are based upon the law. The judge did what the law provided to be done. . . .a judge locks her up even when the couple didn't specifically ask (or did they change their mind) for her to be locked up. Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) It is probable that she can be removed from her elected office by impeachment. NOTE: In Kentucky, it's only possible to remove county clerks by impeachment through the state legislature. Neither Kim Davis nor Casey Davis have yet indicated a willingness to resign. Edited September 4, 2015 by Gregory Matthews Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) When circumstances changed so that doing so would violate her conscience, she should have resigned. I totally disagree!!!! At that rate there will eventually be no Christians in office. Edited September 4, 2015 by Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2015 In an earlier post I stated that statements as below, reflect a failure to understand the law. I have been informed that under the law she cannot be held in jail or longer than 18 months. As I said, there may be limits to the length of time that a person can be jailed for contempt of court. If she continues to follow her conscience and the Bible and do what she believes will please God, then she may be in jail for the rest of her life under that order. It's unreasonable! Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2015 Robert, it is your right to disagree with me. Thank you for making it publicly clear that you and I disagree. I am relieved that now no one will likely misunderstand and think that I agree with you. GayatfootofCross 1 Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 4, 2015 Moderators Share Posted September 4, 2015 There is an additional aspect to this story: Several of her deputy clerks agreed to issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples. The judge informed her that he would not send her to jail if she promised to allow those deputy clerks to issue such licenses. She refused his offer. Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Several of her deputy clerks agreed to issue marriage licenses to homosexual couples. The judge informed her that he would not send her to jail if she promised to allow those deputy clerks to issue such licenses. She refused his offer. I think that even if a deputy does the issuing, her name is on the license. >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Gotta love those who cheer more biblical morals like marriage. She clearly needs our support as she believe in Marriage, and to prove that she has been married 4 times. She also believes in children, she even had them when she was not married. phkrause and GayatfootofCross 2 If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 It is probable that she can be removed from her elected office by impeachment. Currently, I believe they would have to call a special session of the legislature into session to accomplish an impeachment, which I do not think there is the political will to do at this time. It would require the Democrat governor to do it and the Governors race could be adversely affected by it. The Republican candidate is a Tea party candidate which both Democrats and RINOs do not wish to see win the race. There is a historical distrust of federal government meddling in local affairs and this decision by the SCOTUS has not gone over "as well as it has" in other parts of the country. >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Gotta love those who cheer more biblical morals like marriage. She clearly needs our support as she believe in Marriage, and to prove that she has been married 4 times. She also believes in children, she even had them when she was not married. It is a good thing the Lord has help remembering as He is prone to forget in the instance of sincere repentance . This woman never condemned anyone,whether right or wrong she simply stated her convictions and was prepared to walk the walk. John 8:3-12New International Version (NIV) 3 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4 and said to Jesus, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?” 6 They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7 When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, “Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone at her.” 8 Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10 Jesus straightened up and asked her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” 11 “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” From what anyone here knows personally of this woman she did exactly that. Arwen 1 Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 however she was not Jesus here, she was the Pharisees. rudywoofs (Pam) and CoAspen 2 If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 ......and also adding to the 'nay sayers' as to the real benefits of following Christ. The theology of the Pharisees is alive and well, even with in our own church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) however she was not Jesus here, she was the Pharisees. Not sure what you mean. I didn't say she thought she was Jesus. Exactly how does she qualify for being the Pharisee. She repented and changed her life. She did not condemn anyone or call for anyone to be stoned. She has religious convictions that you and others don't have.Those religious convictions are not for someone else to agree with ,they are between the person and God. Nor should the person be ridiculed for a previous life left behind,unless of course you know personally it is a fraud. Obviously the feeling here is that because of a life she lived pre-christian she should be ridiculed for her stand according to a conscience. She certainly can't have a conscience with her past can she? That should be remembered and hammer her with it . Especially if she dares to take a stand on gay marriage that so many of you hold dear, ......and also adding to the 'nay sayers' as to the real benefits of following Christ. The theology of the Pharisees is alive and well, even with in our own church. It certainly is. This woman has not condemned,many of you have. As far as any of us know she has repented and is living a different life. If so God has forgiven but you are keeping score using her past life. She didn't call for stoning or harm to gay couples. Many "good christians here are pleased she is in jail. She has expressed no hatred or ridicule,many fine christians here or elsewhere have excelled at that. What is the defintion of a pharisee again? Is it holding a religious conviction that those that consider themselves more righteous don't share? Is it holding firm to those religious convictions? Is it daring to stand by your convictions regardless of a past life left behind? Or would a real christian by your standards refuse to have firm convictions because of your past I believe she should have resigned.That is me,I can't dictate her conscience. Obviously that job has been turned over to some. I believe she went about this the wrong way,but not because of her past Edited September 4, 2015 by bonnie Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie-Jess Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Mr. Gregory Matthews: Are you an Adventist? If you take these stands now when it comes to marriage, then what do you suggest we do when laws are passed restricting our freedoms to worship on Sabbath and/or requiring us to work on Sunday? Should we comply with the law? Should we slip into church services on Sunday just to please the law? Should we drop our church membership just to satisfy the law? You should consider carefully the stand that you seem to be taking on this matter, which is about conscience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie-Jess Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 And you're right. I did misunderstand that law. It seemed extreme and ridiculous to me. Some day Sabbath keepers will be held in contempt of court, too. What do you suggest we do, sir? Are you trying to tell us to back off and just obey the law when it conflicts with God's laws? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie-Jess Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 And what about the people threatening to kill her, to burn down her house while her and her husband are in it? Those kind of threats would be terrorist threats given by someone else. Do you think those people should be allowed to just walk free? These people go around chanting "love wins", but where is the love when those kinds of threats are made? Love of self, maybe. Toward their perceived enemies, hatred. So they are hypocrites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 this is a civll issue not a religious issue.. I still find gay activies repugnant.. this still remains a civil issue. If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie-Jess Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) Those of you who are judging Kim Davis, where do you think you are? Do you think you are standing in the place of Jesus, in the place of the woman or in the place of the pharisees, or in the place of others who picked up stones to cast at the woman? Jesus said: 7 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? (Matthew 7:1-3, KJV) But those of you who call her a hypocrite, put her in the place of the pharisees, make accusations, etc, you are doing just that: judging. You should look at your own hearts and pray and ask the Lord to reveal to you what makes you so judgmental of her and her decision and those supporting her. Can you play God? "I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings." (Jeremiah 17: 10, KJV) "The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?" (Matthew 10: 24, 25, KJV) Edited September 4, 2015 by Jessie-Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted September 4, 2015 Members Share Posted September 4, 2015 But those of YOU who call her a hypocrite, put her in the place of the pharisees, make accusations, etc, YOU are doing just that: judging. YOU should look at YOUR own hearts and pray and ask the Lord to reveal to YOU what makes YOU so judgmental of her and her decision and those supporting her. kinda looks like a judgmental statement there... Probably not such a hot idea to be calling the kettle black... Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessie-Jess Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I'm sure it does, and maybe it is. I responded in your other thread, by the way, and am reposting this here: That woman, by the way, looks familiar, and so does the lady sitting next to her. I've canvassed (literature evangelism) in Kentucky before (isn't that where she is). It's possible that I have met her. I don't remember if she was kind to me or if she was cruel, like so many other "Christians" that I have met, who don't want to hear anything other than what they believe (many Christians were also kind and understanding and helpful, too and even encouraging). If she or the lady in her office hurt me, I don't remember nor hold it against her. If she received a book from me and if I prayed for her, I don't remember, but it's possible that she has been reading our message and may be convicted by the Holy Spirit. You don't know her. Does anyone on here know her? I don't even know her, though it seems in my mind that I may have met her (I have met many people canvassing, so I do not know for sure). You don't know what God is doing on her heart. Nobody here does. I do know, however, that from what I read it seems like she is standing for what she believes is right, taking a stand on God's side. Whether she is right or wrong, no Christians should point fingers at her and call her hypocritical or whatever they call her. A Christian should at least be merciful, tolerant, understanding, and pray for her even if he or she cannot understand. For all I know, she could become a powerful leader, believing what she is doing is right, taking a stand for Sunday worship in the last days in the time of trouble. She could actively oppose us, desiring to put us to death, following her conscience, but that is not for me to judge. She could be suffering alongside us in that future time, with us, assuming that we are faithful to God's cause. Only God knows. God knows her heart, and whether what she is doing is guided by Him or instigated by the devil. Who are we to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit (Mark 12:31)? ^ I suppose the quotations from Matthew 7 and the above statement is all that I should have said on the matter. Perhaps it would have gone better? After all, I don't know the hearts of anyone here, either. I can only judge by the actions and words. But, instead of retaliating, it is better to search our hearts and see why we judge, because it does seem that we are judging. By the way: "Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." (Revelation 14:12) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15, Jesus's words) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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