Michaeneu Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 In the United States, and probably several other countries, we live is a society that is unique in how it treats marriage. In the U.S. Marriage has both a civil and a religious function. It is civil in that for a marriage to legally exist, it must be registered with a civil authority and outside of that registration it does not exist. [NOTE: For this post, I am not considering the issue of so-called "common-law marriage, which is a complicating factor.] It is religious in that a religious pronouncement of marriage may be considered to have met the requirements for registration as a civil marriage. This is not true in some countries. In some countries marriage only exists in a civil structure and religion has no function. IOW, a religious ceremony has no bearing on whether or not the marriage exists. Clergy cannot perform marriages. My wife and I, both U.S citizens were married in such a country. Following our compliance with the laws of that country, we then, as U.S. citizens, were required to travel to the U.S. Embassy and produce our civil documents of compliance with the civil law of that country, and them formally register in order that the government of the United States would recognize our marriage and therefore be subject to the marriage laws of the United States. IOW, due to our special circumstances, we had to register with three (3) different agencies of the government of the country in which we were then living and following that register with the U.S. government. At no time in this process would any document of a clergyperson been recognized. The U.S. differs form some other countries in that it has both a civil marriage and potentially a religious element. The recent decision of the U.S. Supreme Court dwelt only with the civil aspects of U.S. marriage. It did not in any way deal with the provisions under which clergy perform marriages. As it dwelt with the civil function, it was not a rebellion against God any more that it is a rebellion for certain other countries no not allow any religious function, as in the country where my wife and I married. Actually it denies the divine aspect of the institution that predated government or the state and will ultimately be used to destroy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 7, 2015 Author Moderators Share Posted September 7, 2015 Michaeneu, judges who do not uphold the law get over ruled by an appellate court. If this happens very often the judges may be removed. A knowledgeable judge who wants to rule for a person, can generally find a way to do so. I personally had this happen to me in a case that did not involve religion. The judge issued a very favorable ruling that directly affected me and in a manner that the other side did not want to appeal. However, I expect that time will come when judges may have to resign rather than issue the decisions that they might be required to make. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michaeneu Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Michaeneu, judges who do not uphold the law get over ruled by an appellate court. If this happens very often the judges may be removed. A knowledgeable judge who wants to rule for a person, can generally find a way to do so. I personally had this happen to me in a case that did not involve religion. The judge issued a very favorable ruling that directly affected me and in a manner that the other side did not want to appeal. However, I expect that time will come when judges may have to resign rather than issue the decisions that they might be required to make. I think everyone here grasps the inevitability of just such an act by a lower magistrate or in this case the Kentucky clerk. I'm sure she grasps the ultimate outcome is that they will find a way to impeach her if she doesn't succumb to the mischief of the courts. They won't be able to hold her interminably. More fittingly, the attention that she has drawn over the issue will awaken God's elect that the beast and the false prophet are disenfranchising God's people from public offices for their final rebellion. I respect her actions and believe she is being used by God, while others unfortunately sleep. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 ... believe she is being used by God, while others unfortunately sleep. In what way is she being used by God? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 I don't think they are going to stick this one back in the bottle very easy. I will be very surprised if there is not a lot more challenges. I believe the gay community attacking to many with loss of reputation and business is going to experience a pushback There were thousands of supporters coming from as far away as Texas. After all the hub bub and placing her in jail they seem to have figured out a way in that "the licenses issued Friday were altered to remove Davis’s name. They now say they are issued in the office of “Rowan County, Rowan County County Clerk.” They did manage to create a cause to be supported rather than take this course. One that had already been taken successfully in another state to safeguard the beliefs of all. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 She could have 'spoken' for the God she Believed in, people do that all the time. The issue here, as I have said before, is not religious freedom but about Gay issues. RF is being used in a dishonest manner. It is bordering on trying to remove separation of church and state for ones own personal belief/interpretation of the Bible. Yes, people are gathering on her side, but with out understanding what the precedent would be if Government sided with her. It would be de facto siding with a religious belief. People would not want the government siding with any Muslim belief to the detriment of another group. Don't fall back on the idea this is an Christian nation, we are a secular one and it should be, as that is the only way to ensure RF for everyone. The God of the Bible does not force belief on anyone. Mankind through its(Bible) written history have tried that but it is not Gods way. Following the God of the Bible can only be voluntary, or Satan wins. That is his accusation since Eden. We have a choice, follow the law of the land/job/position or not. If a person feels it is a violation of their belief, than they can honor their God by leaving what ever requires a violation of their conscious. To refuse and want the government to allow them to refuse to perform a part of their function does not honor God, but rather continues the misunderstanding of Him. Tom Wetmore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 She could have 'spoken' for the God she Believed in, people do that all the time. The issue here, as I have said before, is not religious freedom but about Gay issues. RF is being used in a dishonest manner. It is bordering on trying to remove separation of church and state for ones own personal belief/interpretation of the Bible. Yes, people are gathering on her side, but with out understanding what the precedent would be if Government sided with her. It would be de facto siding with a religious belief. People would not want the government siding with any Muslim belief to the detriment of another group. Don't fall back on the idea this is an Christian nation, we are a secular one and it should be, as that is the only way to ensure RF for everyone. The God of the Bible does not force belief on anyone. Mankind through its(Bible) written history have tried that but it is not Gods way. Following the God of the Bible can only be voluntary, or Satan wins. That is his accusation since Eden. We have a choice, follow the law of the land/job/position or not. If a person feels it is a violation of their belief, than they can honor their God by leaving what ever requires a violation of their conscious. To refuse and want the government to allow them to refuse to perform a part of their function does not honor God, but rather continues the misunderstanding of Him. I agree she should have quit but another state managed this nicely before it became an issue. She did not make any attempt to force her belief. She wanted the freedom to follow hers.You don't agree with that,it does not make her dishonest. She didnt make any attempt to force them not to marry according to her beliefs. She refused to have her name on something that she is profoundly against. Not sure about where you live but here legal decisions are made all the time safe guarding the Muslim faith, many times being hired knowing the requirements and then saying OOPs I can't,I am going to sue. Just as the Muslim stewardess believes she should not be asked to choose between her religion and her job,Kim Davis claims the same. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Wolfe Posted September 12, 2015 Share Posted September 12, 2015 I suppose to follow along, a Muslim, Jew or Adventist should, if they work in a grocery store refuse to let people purchase pork or other unclean products. it is interesting that in the baptism vows we just don't have to sell tobacco or alcohol not unclean meats GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonmarri Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the YAHWEH thy ELOHIM. Thou shalt not seethe a kid in his mother's milk. Deut 14:21 KJV Never eat any creature that dies naturally. You may give it to the foreigners who live in your cities, and they may eat it. You may also sell it to foreigners who are visiting. But you are people who are holy to YAHWEH your ELOHIM. Never cook a young goat in its mother's milk. Deut 14:21 GW This is what the Bible stated and not allowing anyone to eat unclean meat. No one was to eat unclean meat. We was to show heath at all times and this is what was given. Please would should not misquote Scriptures. To me this whole thing is very simple render ELOHIM the things belonging to HIM and to Cesar what belongs to him! Just like Ben Carson, when you join to work in government you will be required to follow the government. I do not agree with the article because she should have quit her job and trust in ELOHIM to get her another one. She as Ben who I know want fame over the Word. We should not participate in politic for this very reason. There is a lot a president will have to do that will go against ELOHIM and homosexuals have rights to choose. That why ELOHIM had this country to allow freedom of choice and not force. Republican speak out of a two fork tongue, against Islam but act just like them. They want religion rights only for themselves and no one else. We all must choose and I choose YAHWEH! Trump was chosen to show the truth about the Republican party and not surprising to me for all of this mess! Blessings! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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