MASS MAILING OF GREAT CONTROVERSY

[Robert]

The draft letter of apology is a good move and well-written.  

It's terrible....Rome hasn't changed, who are you kidding?  

Instead of a possibly sending this proposed letter to Pope Francis, Pastor Wilson should have flew over to Roman and kissed the Pope's ring.

Also, addressing him has "His Holiness" is blasphemous. Have 7th-Day Adventists lost their minds? 

"His word [the Bible] has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is." [EGW]

 

 

Edited September 21, 2015 by Robert

[GayatfootofCross]

When I was a very young man, our small country SDA Church talked about  driving around the country roads and throwing 'The Great Controversy' into the driveways.

We settled on 'DESIRE OF AGES' and one or two Sabbaths in a row threw that precious book all over the rural area. We being very much Missionary minded Christians took EGW very seriously and spread them as the

leaves of Autumn!

And lots of Praying over those books that they would bring  souls to GOD.

A year before, a stranger knocked on my door giving me THE GREAT CONTROVERSY..out of the blue. God whipped my soul unto repentance on the last chapter.

I believe in our books.

 

#forever grateful

Edited September 22, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[JoeMo]

Like so many other prognostications about Biblical prophecy (including my own), only time will tell who is REALLY the AntiChrist, and the beast, and the false prophet, and the 10 horns and 7 heads, etc., etc.  I would predict that we will know much more about Pope Francis by the beginning of next week.  I'm keeping my options open.

[Robert]

 

I am guessing some have forgotten who will be "foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf" and feel that Adventists can just say what they want about Catholics, just because they are Catholics.

The problem is not the Catholic people, but the leadership, i.e., the Papacy.

[Robert]

 

If you are in communion with Christ you will place His estimate upon every human being....Who among us would dare to exclude the Pope or anyone else from this principle?

And Christ did place upon every human being the love you speak of, yet He said the following:

"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? (Matt chapter 23)

And don't forget Paul, what he said to the self-righteous Judaizers:

"Look out for the dogs (wolves in sheep's clothing), look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and  glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh..." (Phil chapter 3)

The Pope claims infallibility in faith and morals.  He claims attributes that belong to God alone.  Shall I list these?  That's the very pinnacle of self-righteousness.  It brings glory to self.  

 

Edited September 22, 2015 by Robert

[Robert]

He claims attributes that belong to God alone.  Shall I list these?  That's the very pinnacle of self-righteousness.  It brings glory to self.  

 

Here's Amazing Facts:

"We [the popes] hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."
"The pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh."

http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4992/t/who-is-the-antichrist

Edited September 22, 2015 by Robert

[8thdaypriest]

Pope Francis has come to talk about "global warming" (just an effort at wealth redistribution, thru "Cap and Trade").  No other nations will participate in C&T, so that leaves us "rich" Americans, to carry the burden - giving money to all the little "poor nations" who don't pollute the world so much...

He has also come to dis capitalism, to say how it has harmed millions. 

Really!!!@#$%^&

That's like telling all the "good Catholics" to vote for Bernie Sanders. 

And it's all for the sake of "love". 

[JoeMo]

Here's Amazing Facts:

"We [the popes] hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty."
"The pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of flesh."

http://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/study-guide/e/4992/t/who-is-the-antichrist

These quotes are from documents over 120 years old.  Hardly cutting edge.  I could quote some stuff by EGW that says some of the saints living in her time would be alive to witness the 2nd Coming.  That statement holds as much water as the pope statements above.

[GayatfootofCross]

You could never do wrong with LOVE for Others

 

No matter what faith.

[Gregory Matthews]

His Holiness:  I have a problem with addressing any human with that term.  However, in fairness, we need to be accurate in attributing a meaning to that term to the Catholic Church.

1)  It does not mean that the Pope is sinless.  Catholic doctrine is clear that the Pope is human and can sin.  It is clear that the Pope must confess his personal sin just as any other person must confess it.

2) In Catholic doctrine, that term simply indicates that the Pope is dedicated or "set apart" in a special  way for spiritual leadership.  This thinking stems from the Biblical practice of calling people "saints." 

 

[JoeMo]

 

The Pope claims infallibility in faith and morals.

 

Please show me where Pope Francis has made this claim.  True, what you say is historic catholc doctrine; but I have never see the current Pope place himself on that pedestal.

[LifeHiscost]

You could never do wrong with LOVE for Others

 

No matter what faith.

True, but when one makes an oath, for whatever organization that's designed to deceive or lead directly away from the Creators instructions, it can lead to losing ones soul by deception.

…13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds......2 Corinthians

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[GayatfootofCross]

True, but when one makes an oath, for whatever organization that's designed to deceive or lead directly away from the Creators instructions, it can lead to losing ones soul by deception.

…13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds......2 Corinthians

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

you do understand that we are all products of our cultures and society and religious influence and basically it is all we know  thru our eyes.

A good lil religious boy aspires to dedicate his life to Church (your church..their church..whatever) cause of faith and love for GOD.

And grows up in love and service to others that leads to the Head of the organization (Mormon or Baptist or Catholic or SDA).

Take an oath? yes

to deceive ? no

God knows the heart and the intent.

We have billions upon Billions in the History of the World who never knew the exact TRUTH.

God takes them where they are at.

Individually

just like he does with u

 

and again ..YOU CAN NEVER GO WRONG WITH LOVE FOR OTHERS

 

1 Peter 4:8King

⁸ And above all things have fervent LOVE among yourselves: for LOVE shall cover the multitude of sins.

 

GBU LifeHiscost

i see Jesus in His teachings and it warms my heart that he gets that

we get all kinds of things wrong in theology and how it's applied

but to see Christ in every face  is HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS SAID THAT TOO

scriptures given upon request

 

Edited September 24, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[LifeHiscost]

 

 

scriptures given upon request

 

Wouldn't hurt. And ignorance, as long as it is not deliberate is considered by God, typifying His mercy.

…16But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil. 17Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin....James 4

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[GayatfootofCross]

Wouldn't hurt. And ignorance, as long as it is not deliberate is considered by God, typifying His mercy.

…16But as it is, you boast in your arrogance; all such boasting is evil. 17Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin....James 4

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

 

o dear where did i put that lil verse..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh here it is..sorry it took so long

Matthew 25:31-46King James Version (KJV)

³¹ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

³² And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

³³ And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

³⁴ Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

³⁵ For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

³⁶ Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

³⁷ Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

³⁸ When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

³⁹ Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

⁴⁰ And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

⁴¹ Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

⁴² For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

⁴³ I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

⁴⁴ Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

⁴⁵ Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

⁴⁶ And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

...........................

it deserves it's on thread

if not a Sub Forum

Edited September 24, 2015 by GayatfootofCross

[Gerr]

(the museum of Adventistan that is)

Is that what a "Soldier in Christ's army" would do?   Hide his weapon   in  a museum?

[Gerr]

IHere is something of interest to this topic. What do others think of this "proposal?" Id like to see it happen.

http://atoday.org/a-proposed-letter-of-apology-to-pope-francis-from-the-president-of-the-general-conference-of-seventh-day-adventists.html

The SDA president to "apologize" to his "Holiness Pope Francis"?  "Holiness?"  Has the papacy renounced its claim to be God on earth?  Infallibility?  The worship of Mary and saints?   Indulgences?  Repented in sackcloth and ashes for the murder 

of millions of believers?  Accepted SOLA SCRIPTURA, SOLA FIDE,, SOLA GRATIA?  

I am appalled, shocked to see a professed SDA proposing this.  But then, I should not really be surprised that an SDA would even "wonder after the beast".  No, the papacy does not have to worry, all the PROTESTants have disappeared,

and sad to say, even a number of SDAs.  .  They have all stretched out their hand "over the abyss to clasp hands with Roman power" save the remnant.   

[Gerr]

These quotes are from documents over 120 years old.  Hardly cutting edge.  I could quote some stuff by EGW that says some of the saints living in her time would be alive to witness the 2nd Coming.  That statement holds as much water as the pope statements above.

Have ANY of the popes renounced any of these claims?

[Gerr]

I most appreciated the last line of your post here. I guess I find myself wondering just how hateful people think God wants us to be towards the pope or anyone he is associated with. Even if someone else is "wrong" we can become just as wrong by mongering hatred and bigotry. Jesus showed His Church a much better example in many ways; especially in how He addressed Judas, the man who came with a mob to kill Him. I think it is a little bit of a stretch to pronounce with too much certainty all this stuff about 5 heads, 6 heads, seven heads, or whatever. God doesnt really need our "help" and mean for us to figure out stuff like that. We can hardly manage the three words in the Bible that read like this in most versions: "Love one another." As soon as they start talking about Catholics, most Adventists I know drop that verse like a hot potatoe. We need to think a little more carefully about that and act accordingly. We are getting nowhere with all the Pope Talk.

Is it hateful and bigoted to warn people of an organization that embodies a whole host of soul-destroying teachings?  

ESV | ‎Eph 5:11 "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."

ESV | ‎Is 58:1 “Cry aloud; do not hold back; lift up your voice like a trumpet; declare to my people their transgression, to the house of Jacob their sins."

Where have all the PROTESTants gone....

"Gone to graveyards everyone,"

"When will they ever learn,, when will they ever learn."

 

Edited September 24, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo
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[Gerr]

There is quite a difference between deciding to treat everyone, Popes included, with the same respect everyone deserves and then trying to call it "stretching out the hand over the abyss to clasp hands with" whoever. I guess the "real Adventists" prefer to bring a time of trouble upon us before it is actually needed. 

If I knew that you want go to NYC but I see you headed to LA, would it be dis-respectful and bigoted for me to tell you that you are headed in the wrong direction?

To everything there is a season, but is it a time to be quiet?  

ESV | ‎Eze 3:17 “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel. Whenever you hear a word from my mouth, you shall give them warning from me.  ‎18 If I say to the wicked, ‘You shall surely die,’ and you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, in order to save his life, that wicked person shall die for his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand. 

 

Edited September 24, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo
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[Gerr]

There are a lot of Biblical references to just being quiet about what you know too. Was Jesus reaching His hands across the gulf" too when He said "Tell no man who did this?" There certainly is principle indicated here for carrying this into our modern day practice of Christianity, and to stop circumscribing everything we do with the "cry aloud, spare not" theology. That clearly is not working.

And in what context did Jesus say, "Tell no man?"

[Gerr]

The rhetoric which continually repeats such assertions is simply a way to rationalize a repeated behavior that one does not wish to change.  I am not advocating complete silence on everything, just saying it is time to be much more selective and get back to the ways that Jesus would see His people follow in witnessing. For eg, I see there is a website called "Beast Watch" or there used to be. And unfortunately what happens with such efforts to "warn" and "preach the straight testimony" is that it simply misleads and distracts people from the reality of Bible prophecy which is Jesus. There is so much aggression and emphasis on "mark of the beast rhetoric" from the "true Adventists" that Jesus is usually lost sight of. Time to turn that around.

Neither do I advocate crying aloud at all times and at all occasions, but this is not the time to be silent.

[Gerr]

says who?

And who says it's not the time?  If not now, when?  If not by Adventists, who?  

I refer you to the 3 Angels' messages of Rev 14 & 18.  

 

[Gerr]

"let not then your good be evil spoken of." Rom 14:16 KJV. If we are not alert to the implications, in our efforts to do good, we may inadvertently do harm. I refer you to the three angels message, as summed up in John 15:12

I am reminded of when the Temple was being rebuilt in the time of Haggai.  The message went out to rebuild, but some said that now was not the time.  There will always be naysayers.   If you want to keep quiet, that's your right, but let those who

think it's not the time to keep quiet herald their message.  I don't consider it love when it sees danger and fails to raise alarm because it might offend someone.  For far too long I, like many others,  have been afflicted with the malady of political correctness, too afraid to ruffle any feathers.  And what have I accomplished?  Nothing!.  When I read of Paul's missionary tours, he "turned  the world upside down" (Acts 17:6).

I find it curious that the pope has no qualms confronting and offending abortionists, capitalists, capital punishment advocates, anti-environmentalists, etc. while some want Adventists who have been given end-time messages to keep quiet and even apologize!

Edited September 25, 2015 by Gerry Cabalo
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[Gerr]

A soldier in Christ's army would be able to "win" without firing a single round. There is Bible precedent for that kind of thing when the Lord Himself struck down the threatening forces. But to be honest Gerry, just by listening to how you have talked about Jesus and your own experiences, I see a great testimony for Christ. And it has nothing to do with any kind of "warning" you may have given. Know what I mean? (1 John 1:1-3) I believe God's people will do such things in the end times. Daniel 11:32

ESV | ‎Re 18:1 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was made bright with his glory.  ‎2 And he called out with a mighty voice, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place for demons, a haunt for every unclean spirit, a haunt for every unclean bird, a haunt for every unclean and detestable beast.  ‎3 For all nations have drunk the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have grown rich from the power of her luxurious living.”  ‎4 Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues;  ‎5 for her sins are heaped high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.  ‎6 Pay her back as she herself has paid back others, and repay her double for her deeds; mix a double portion for her in the cup she mixed.  ‎7 As she glorified herself and lived in luxury, so give her a like measure of torment and mourning, since in her heart she says, ‘I sit as a queen, I am no widow, and mourning I shall never see.’  ‎8 For this reason her plagues will come in a single day, death and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for mighty is the Lord God who has judged her.”