more LGBT Staying in Church

[bonnie]

 

 

 

 

 

What does the Bible say about homosexuality?

 

by Matt Slick

The Bible doesn't speak of homosexuality very often. But when it does, it condemns it as sin. Let's take a look.

• Leviticus 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
• Leviticus 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."
• 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
• Romans 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned in the Bible. It undermines God's created order when He made Adam and Eve, a man and a woman, to carry out His command to fill and subdue the earth (Genesis 1:28). Homosexuality cannot carry out that mandate. In addition, homosexuality undermines the basic family unit of husband and wife which is the God-ordained means of procreation. Again, homosexuality cannot do that. And, believe it or not, it is also dangerous to society. (See Is homosexuality dangerous?)

Homosexuality has a heavy judgment administered by God Himself upon those who commit it and support it.

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error," (Romans 1:26-27).

As a result of being "given over," they can no longer see the error of what they are doing, will not seek forgiveness, and will not repent. They will then die in their sins and face God's righteous condemnation. We, as Christians, do not want this judgment to fall upon anyone.

But, their rebellion against God does not stop there. Those who are judged by God this way also promote it and condemn others who don't approve of their behavior.

" . . . and, although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them," (Romans 1:32).

So, in their "hearty approval" of homosexuality, they encourage others to accept their practice, and so their sin and rebellion against God spreads. This means they will reject Christ's redemptive work on the cross. Without Jesus, they will have no forgiveness. Without forgiveness, they will have no salvation. Without salvation, there is only damnation in eternalHell. We don't want this for anyone.

Persecution of the non-politically correct?

The Bible's view of homosexuality is not politically correct . . . and this is a concern. Will the Bible soon be considered hate speech by the moral-less majority? There is already significant social pressure being put on the American populace to accept homosexuality as normal and healthy.  Homosexuality is promoted in movies, television, magazines, schools, etc. The social re-engineering is well underway. Yet, statistically only 3% of the population are homosexuals.2Christians, on the other hand, occupy a far higher percentage, 70%3 yet they are not fairly represented in the media. Instead, Christians are routinely portrayed as bigots, narrow-minded idiots, hypocrites, and worse. Why? Because there is little tolerance and equality from the left for those who disagree with them.

The social attitude of America is slowly being engineered to accept liberal sexual behavior while condemning and silencing those who disagree. Since behavior follows belief, what is to stop our increasingly liberal society from acting on its silence-the-opposition attitude and becoming more and more harsh in its dealings with Christians? Nothing. In fact, there are increasing calls to get Christians kicked off social networks for speaking out against homosexual marriage. Silence the Christians! In workplaces, many Bible believers are told to go through sensitivity training in favor of the LGBT community even though such "sensitivity training" is highly offensive to them. If they don't go, they can be fired. It seems that sensitivity must be shown towards the homosexuals but never towards the Christians. This hypocrisy is blatant and dangerous.

And then there are the lawsuits. They are on the increase. Will homosexuals attend churches for the purpose of asking pastors to perform a wedding, and then when they are refused, they sue? Will they seek out Christian owned businesses and ask to have a cake baked, a wedding photographed, or music played at their homosexual wedding and then file a lawsuit when Christians who are holding to their religious convictions refuse to comply? It is already happening, and such legal attacks are on the increase. (This has already happened in Colorado and Oregon where bakers were fined up to $150,000 for refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding).

In light of this, we should look at history to see what politically correct momentum can do inand to a society. Think of Nazi Germany and the Jews or communist Russia and its persecution of dissenters in the 1900s. History is full of examples of how those in politically correct power oppress those who don't agree with them. 

[GayatfootofCross]

even understanding a smidgen of these things will help decompress the issue on both sides.

The Christians (or not) inside of the Church and the people (Christian or not) outside who's hearts are looking for a God that loves them.

 

God want's us to reflect Him in his dealings with us.

Do we know how God really deals with us?

We are worse than we think

God is better than we think.

 

 

 

[bonnie]

1 hour ago, GayatfootofCross said:

even understanding a smidgen of these things will help decompress the issue on both sides.

The Christians (or not) inside of the Church and the people (Christian or not) outside who's hearts are looking for a God that loves them.

 

God want's us to reflect Him in his dealings with us.

Do we know how God really deals with us?

We are worse than we think

God is better than we think.

 

 

 

The only understanding that seems acceptable to some of the homosexual lifestyle is God really doesn't see it as wrong. Many articles are posted,Jimmy Carter has come to believe he was wrong in being against gay marriage or the gay lifestyle. A host of other "christians".  When the time comes for each to give an accounting I don't think God will accept,"Well Jimmy Carter said"

 

The only "sin" of these.. Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom 

that is defended or God's word is questioned is the homosexual lifestyle. Maybe we have it wrong and we misunderstand what God really meant concerning adulterer's,idolaters,thieves etc .

It isn't accepting a fallible human being as we all are. It is the demand we see it as biblically acceptable

 

 

 

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

Here's a half an hour of time well spent to get a perspective from someone whose been there, done that for anyone who feels they could learn from a biblical perspective, and well presented.

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[Stan]

We actually interview him on here a few years ago.  Thanks to Shane....  Think it was this guy..

[GayatfootofCross]

9 hours ago, Stan said:

We actually interview him on here a few years ago.  Thanks to Shane....  Think it was this guy..

I adore Ron Woosley.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/That-Kind-Never-Change-They/dp/1563841754/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1451898978&sr=1-1&keywords=that+kind+can+never+change

link to buy his book under a pseudonym Victor J. Adamson

I highly recommend it!

God gave him a mighty testimony!

I love it!

God works with you where you are at!

 

# http://comingoutministries.org/

 

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Now a Bit of a Word Study that Many (Gay or Not) Christians are looking into

Is Arsenokoitai Really that Mysterious?

Article ID: JAI013 | By: C. Wayne Mayhall

•  

This article first appeared in the Practical Hermeneutics column of the Christian Research Journal, volume30, number06 (2007). For further information or to subscribe to the Christian Research Journal go to: http://www.equip.org

---

“Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites…will inherit the kingdom of God” (1Cor.6:9 NKJV).

Not long ago I was designing an ethics course for a small Christian college when I had the opportunity to interview Reverend Robyn Provis of All God’s Children Metropolitan Community Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota, on the topic of homosexuality and the Bible. Reverend Provis adamantly remarked on several occasions in the interview that a sure-fire way to halt interfaith dialogue in its tracks-one of the most underhanded tactics evangelicals use to justify their position-is the use of what she called the “clobbering” verses of Scripture.

Theologians Douglas Stuart and Gordon D. Fee suggest that “the recognition of a degree of cultural relativity is a valid hermeneutical procedure and is an inevitable corollary of the occasional nature of epistles.”¹They offer guidelines²for distinguishing between ideas that are relative to any given culture and ideas that are transcendent of culture and normative for Christians (and non-Christians). One of those guidelines as stated consists of documenting ideas-or the particular use of a word or phrase-about which the New Testament (NT) has a consistent witness and those about which it does not. The following is an application of this guideline to one crucial Greek word, arsenokoitai, which appears in one of the most popular so-called clobbering passages, 1Corinthians6:9-10.

Dirty Old Men? Theologian Mel White³ agrees that the Greek word arsenokoitai, used for “homosexual” in 1Corinthians6:9, seems to refer to same-sex behavior. He argues that Greek scholars don’t know exactly what it means, however, and that this simple detail is a big part of this tragic debate.⁴

He explains, “Some scholars believe Paul was coining a name to refer to customers of ‘the effeminate call boys.’ We might call them ‘dirty old men.’ Others translate the word as ‘sodomites,’ but never explain what that means.”⁵

According to White, in 1958, a translator for the New Amplified Bible set historical precedent by translating this “mysterious” Greek word into English as the word “homosexuals,” even though no such word exists in either Greek or Hebrew. It was that translator, according to White, who “placed the word homosexual in the English-language Bible for the very first time.”⁶

White blames this bad translation for the inability of many NT scholars today to make the proper, culturally relevant application of this passage in 1Corinthians. He adds, “In the past, people used Paul’s writings to oppress women and limit their role in the home, in church, and in society. Now we have to ask ourselves, ‘Is it happening again? Is a word in Greek that has no clear definition being used to reflect society’s prejudice and condemn God’s gay children?'”⁷

So what is the proper contextual meaning of this mysterious Greek word? The convincing argument from history that Paul is putting forth, White says, is a condemnation of the “married men who hired hairless young boys (malakois) for sexual pleasure just as they hired smooth-skinned young girls for that purpose.”⁸

In light of this interpretation of the meaning of arsenokoitai, White concludes with an emotional appeal: “Responsible homosexuals would join Paul in condemning anyone who uses children for sex, just as we would join anyone else in condemning the threatened gang rape in Sodom or the behavior of the sex-crazed priests and priestesses in Rome. So…this passage says…nothing about homosexuality as we understand it today.”⁹

Not Such a Mystery. Clinical psychologist and theologian Stanton L. Jones¹⁰ admits that White effectively invokes “the mystery of arsenokoitai,” the unusual word Paul uses in 1Corinthians6:9 and 1Timothy 1:10 that is commonly translated “homosexual sin.”¹¹This, however, is not such a mystery, he argues, and its unraveling reveals a more complex picture of Paul’s use of Leviticus.

Leviticus18:22and 20:13 forbid a man lying with another man as one would with a woman. Leviticus was originally written in Hebrew, but Paul was a Greek-educated Jew writing to Gentiles in Greek, the common language of the day, and probably was using the Greek translation of the Old Testament available in that day, the Septuagint, or LXX, for his Scripture quotations.

The Greek translation of these Leviticus passages condemns a man (arseno) lying with (koitai) another man (arseno); these words (excuse the pun) lie side-by-side in these passages in Leviticus. Paul joins these two words together into a neologism, a new word (as we do in saying database or software), and thus he condemns in 1Corinthians and 1Timothy what was condemned in Leviticus.

Jones believes, then, that the most credible translation of what Paul is condemning in 1Corinthians6:9 is a person doing exactly what Leviticus condemns: engaging in homosexual sex (a man being a “man-lier”). Far from dismissing the relevance of Leviticus, Paul is implicitly invoking its enduring validity for our understanding of sexual sin, and drawing on it as the foundation of his teaching on homosexual conduct. He is saying, “Remember what it said not to do in Leviticus18:22and 20:13? Don’t do that!”

Sparse and Ambiguous Evidence? Theologian John H. Elliott, Professor Emeritus of Theology and Religious Studies at the University of San Francisco, has written one of the most thorough studies of 1Corinthians6:9-10 to date.¹² He concludes that “nothing in 1Corinthians, or for that matter in any other biblical writing, speaks directly of the biological or psychological condition of homosexuality or homosexual ‘orientation’ as this is understood today and as it concerns believing Christian gay persons intent on worshipping and serving God.”¹³

http://www.equip.org/article/is-arsenokoitai-really-that-mysterious/

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

Oh I think I might have to state the obvious here.

Oh dear!

If one were to look at the Thread Title.. One might figure out that the pro homosexual or homosexuality theology is put up  to help people to understand what Gay Christians are studying and finding in the Bible in context of History, Culture, and Translation.

I don't think it would there would be mass paradigm  shifts here.

 

QUEERS are included at the Table of JESUS.

No one can now tell them otherwise now!

It might help people understand why they make their way to the Table after the horrors since antiquity.

Meanwhile there needs to be both Forgiveness and Grace extended to both sides

 

We are all worse than we think and ..

God is better than we Think also!

 

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

 

  We are all worse than we think and ..

God is better than we Think also!

 

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

[GayatfootofCross]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/kimberlyknight/2015/12/franklin-graham-is-right-there-is-sin-in-homosexuality/

Franklin Graham is right, there is sin in homosexuality

December 3, 2015 by Kimberly Knight 123 Comments

The other day Franklin Graham, in a self-righteous, power-coveting, ignorance-laced, fear-inducing rant on Facebook garnered over 147,000 likes, 58,000 shares and 18,000 comments by with a post about the sin of homosexuality.

And after much soul searching, prayer and study I’ve decided it’s time for me to tell the truth about the sin of homosexuality.

Now hang on, I’m not saying what you may think I’m saying or what the Franklin Fundiepants might hope I’d be saying.

Not even close.

The sin of homosexuality is being in the closet.

The sin of homosexuality is others expecting us to remain in the closet.

Furthermore – those who fear, loath, reject and shun LGBT children of God are actively participating in sin. Those who insist that I deny a core aspect of how God created me (or try to teach me to loathe myself), are actively participating in sin. And most importantly, those who deny me a seat at God’s table, are actively, egregiously participating in sin.

Let me explain.

As it turns out, there’s no such thing as sins – a list of what not to touch, what not to eat, what not to do and who not to love.

No – there is only sin, which is being in a state of separation from others, self and God.

Over half a century ago Christian theologian and philosopher Paul Tillich wrote and preached a sermon called You Are Accepted.

Let’s dive right in…

“Do we realize that sin does not mean an immoral act, that “sin” should never be used in the plural, and that not our sins, but rather our sin is the great, all-pervading problem of our life? Do we still know that it is arrogant and erroneous to divide men by calling some “sinners” and others “righteous”? For by way of such a division, we can usually discover that we ourselves do not quite belong to the “sinner,” since we have avoided heavy sins, have made some progress in the control of this or that sin, and have been even even humble enough not to call ourselves righteous…

…this kind of thinking and feeling about sin is far removed from what the great religious tradition, both within and outside the Bible, has meant when it speaks of sin…

…sin is separation. To be in a state of sin is to be in the state of separation. And separation is threefold: there is separation among individual lives, separation of a man from himself, and separation of all men from the Ground of Being.”  Tillich, The Shaking of the Foundations

When I was in the closet, I was separated from others (mamma, daddy, Aunt Nancy and Uncle Jimmy, friends and my community), I was separated from myself (with guilt, disgust and seeping self-loathing) and separated from God (who sure as hell couldn’t love me in the state I was in).

But there is good news. Coming out is holy!

“…separation among individual lives…” begins to dissolve when we come out to, bring our whole, true selves, to others.

Some folks will accept us, some will reject us. Eventually, I got my mamma back, but my Uncle Jimmy chooses to remain in a state of separation. The key is that we are honestly, fully giving ourselves in a way that separates no part of our truth.

“…separation of self from self…” ends when we come out to and learn to love ourselves.

Over time and with years of soul-searching, prayer and study I have not only been reconciled with myself, I have learned to love the body, mind and spirit I have been given in this lifetime.

“…and separation from the Ground of Being” is replaced with grace when we love God with our whole hearts, minds and souls, and our neighbors and ourselves.

Coming out has been a long, ongoing, daily process. It involves an iterative acceptance of who God created me to be, saying to those I love and to the world around me, “here I am, just as God created me, how can I help?” Both of these moves have, for me, been grounded in a palpable love for God and finally an acceptance of God’s unparalleled grace.

But really, I can’t say it better than Tillich, so let us return to his sermon. I pray that you can hear it. Really hear it.

“He who is able to love himself is able to love others also; he who has learned to overcome self-contempt has overcome contempt for others. But the depth of our separation lies in just the fact that we are not capable of a great and merciful divine love toward ourselves…In our tendency to abuse and destroy others, there is an open or hidden tendency to abuse and to destroy ourselves. Cruelty to others is always also cruelty towards ourselves.”Thus, the state of our whole life is estrangement from others and ourselves, because we are estranged from the Ground of our being, because we are estranged from the origin and aim of our life. We are separated from the mystery, the depth, and the greatness of our existence.”

He later goes on to say:

“Grace is just as difficult to describe as sin…In grace something is overcome; grace occurs “in spite of” something; grace occurs in spite of separation and estrangement. Grace is the reunion of life with life, the reconciliation of the self with itself. Grace is the acceptance of that which is rejected. Grace transforms fate into meaningful destiny; it changes guilt into confidence and courage.”

Hang in there, here’s the crux of the matter…

“Grace strikes us when we are in great pain and restlessness. It strikes us when we walk through the dark valley of a meaningless and empty life. It strikes us when we feel that our separation is deeper than usual, because we have violated another life, a life which we loved, or from which we were estranged. It strikes us when our disgust for our own being, our indifference, our weakness, our hostility, and our lack of direction and composure have become intolerable to us. It strikes us when, year after year, the longed-for perfection of life does not appear, when the old compulsions reign within us as they have for decades, when despair destroys all joy and courage.

Sometimes at that moment a wave of light breaks into our darkness, and it is as though a voice were saying: “You are accepted. You are accepted, accepted by that which is greater than you, and the name of which you do not know. Do not ask for the name now; perhaps you will find it later. Do not try to do anything now; perhaps later you will do much. Do not seek for anything; do not perform anything; do not intend anything. Simply accept the fact that you are accepted!”

If that happens to us, we experience grace. After such an experience we may not be better than before, and we may not believe more than before. But everything is transformed. In that moment, grace conquers sin, and reconciliation bridges the gulf of estrangement. And nothing is demanded of this experience, no religious or moral or intellectual presupposition, nothing but acceptance.”

 

So let’s recap -

Sin is a state of separation from others, self and God. Thus, hiding from others, ourselves and God in the dark and lonely closet that denies a beautiful and blessed aspect of our sacred worth, is sin.

Coming out is grace.

Coming out is holy.

My ardent prayer is that you can accept yourself, that you can present your whole self to others, that they will embrace you with love and in so doing, with and through others, you will experience the amazing grace of God as you present your whole self to the Ground of Being. 

You are accepted.

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

The worst decisions I made in my life was cause I was trying to be what I was not to be.

[LifeHiscost]

  No – there is only

sin,

which is being in a state of separation from others, self and God.   [/quote]

Is there other reasons as well for God putting these instructions in His Word?

20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins.....James 5

 

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.....Ezekiel 18

 

²³ Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

²⁴ And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.....Ezekiel 37

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.....1 John 3

 

There is only one gift of the Holy Spirit that solves our sin problem. It's called repentance. Upon that gift being received we are able to be cleansed with the blood of Jesus.

 

re·pent·ance

rəˈpentəns/

noun

noun: repentance; plural noun: repentances

1. the action of repenting; sincere regret or remorse.

   "each person who turns to God in genuine repentance and faith will be saved"

   synonyms:

   remorse, contrition, contriteness, penitence, regret, ruefulness, remorsefulness, shame, guilt "her lack of repentance angered them"

 

And since we can do , according to the Word, nothing without Him even the holy life after the cleansing, is a result of His power.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:....Ephesians 2

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!     

 

[GayatfootofCross]

If only the Church can understand this

 

[LifeHiscost]

 

When it's easy to feel sorry for yourself and you can find nothing besides others to blame your troubles on, think on these things, epecially the clip spreads the balm of Gilead the most to you. You'll know which one when you see it.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!   

[LifeHiscost]

The one that brought the most tears was on Gaither Southern Gospel Music, 110/706, How beautiful Heaven Must Be, Gen Forcet, GaitherVevo.

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[GayatfootofCross]

 

 

 

 

 

The Seventh-day Adventist Church and Transgender People

 

17 January 2016 | Jared Wright

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In the United States, 2015 was a landmark year for transgender people.

After becoming the first openly transgender person to be nominated for a Primetime Emmy Award for her work in Orange is the New Black, Laverne Cox in 2015 became the first trans woman to be memorialized with a wax statue in Madame Tussauds wax museum, based in London—a significant accolade among many for Cox. In 2015, the Amazon series Transparent, about the family of a man who has long identified as female, became the first show produced by Amazon to win a major award and the first streaming video service series to win a Golden Globe for Best Series. Trans man Aydian Dowling was the Men’s Health Reader's Choice pick for the title of the Ultimate Men's Health Guy in 2015. And Caitlyn Jenner appeared on countless magazine covers, and became a household name in 2015.

Within the last year, the Seventh-day Adventist Church has had its own awakening concerning transgender people. From late 2014 to late 2015, trans people became not only a topic of serious discussion within the denomination, but also the subject of multiple position statements, a film project, several articles—even a talking point for the first Seventh-day Adventist candidate for President of the United States. For the first time, transgender people showed up on Adventist radar in a significant way.

How transgender people featured in Adventist discourse within the last year has varied widely.

OFFICIAL STATEMENTS

In October 2014, the Biblical Research Institute’s Ethics Committee authored a statement on “transgenderism,” a phrase not often seen in scholarly literature, but one gaining popularity among Evangelicals. The statement addressed “sex-change surgery” in particular, saying “the question of sex-change surgery (also called sex reassignment surgery) challenges the Church with sensitive questions.”

The statement addressed believers who opt to undergo gender reassignment surgery, saying “we recognize the uniqueness of their existential situation and the limitation of our knowledge in such issues,” adding that “from a biblical perspective the human being is a psychosomatic unity. This means that sexual identity cannot be entirely independent from one’s body as is frequently asserted.”

The statement also suggested that “In some cases, sex-change surgery may be motivated by a sophisticated desire for homosexual activity. Undergoing sex-change surgery in order to satisfy the homosexual urge to have sex with a person of the same sex would violate the ethical and moral biblical principle of sexual activity being limited to heterosexual marriage.”

The statement also addressed transgender people who convert to Adventism, and trans people who want to be married.

In October 2015, the Seventh-day Adventist Theological Seminary at Andrews University issued a statement entitled “An Understanding of the Biblical View on Homosexual Practice and Pastoral Care," which referenced transgender people, but aside from one sentence—“In addition, various alternate sexualities, including homosexuality, bisexuality, and the variety of transgender identities have become increasingly mainstream”—the document dealt exclusively with homosexuality.

On November 2, 2015, the North American Division of Seventh-day Adventists approved a statement on human sexuality that, like the BRI’s statement, essentially professed agnosticism concerning transgender people. The NAD statement said, “While the Seventh-day Adventist Church has formulated teachings on gender and sexuality that may have a bearing on issues related to transgenderism, the Church has not yet articulated an official position applying these teachings to the issue. The complex nature of transgenderism calls for further discussion before recommendations can be made for the Church.”

ARTICLES

Another Adventist approach to relating to transgender people in 2015 came by way of telling trans people’s stories—primarily in articles on this website. My March 2015 article on Teagan Widmer, a successful, self-taught software engineer and the creator of the Refuge Restrooms app, was the first article (as far as I know) in a Seventh-day Adventist journal documenting a story of a trans person.

In June, Alita Byrd interviewed an Adventist employee who, in the process of coming out as a trans woman, was also transitioning out of Adventist employment. The interviewee, who declined to be named, said that she had no intention of leaving the Adventist Church.

POLITICAL TALKING POINT

Retired neurosurgeon Dr. Ben Carson, arguably 2015’s most famous Seventh-day Adventist, has made some strong statements about transgender people in his bid for the Republican nomination for President of the United States. Writing for Sojourners, Andrews University graduate Eliel Cruz traced the Adventist Church’s complicated history with homosexuality from Colin Cook’s controversial, church-funded “Homosexuals Anonymous” in the 1970s to Carson’s statements about homosexual and transgender people in his 2015-2016 presidential run. Writes Cruz, “Carson, a renowned neurosurgeon, has compared same-sex marriage to bestiality and pedophilia. He even suggested segregating bathrooms for the transgender population since it was unfair to make non-trans individuals uncomfortable. And this week, Carson referred to trans individuals as “abnormal” and said they should not be given “extra rights.”

FILM PROJECT

The 2015 film project “Enough Room at the Table,” directed and produced by Daneen Akers and Stephen Eyer, who also created the film “Seventh-Gay Adventists,” provided another first for Adventist trans people. Enough Room featured a weekend dialogue in which 12 Adventists from around the United States including pastors, educators, parents, and LGBT+ Adventists, all from from differing theological paradigms, experiences, and perspectives, came together as strangers to talk with one another. One of the participants, trans woman Rhonda Dinwiddie, provided some of the film’s most deeply poignant moments as she shared her story with the group. The project is the first Adventist-created story featuring a transgender individual. It debuted at the Spectrum UltraViolet Arts Festival, and is available for $.99 as a digital download. The DVD of Enough Room will be available soon.

YOUTUBE ATTACK VIDEO

Just last week, Rhonda Dinwiddie found herself at the center of another visual project—a YouTube video attacking her, the Hollywood Seventh-day Adventist Church, its pastor, and that conference’s administration. In the summer of 2015, Dinwiddie was ordained as an elder at the Hollywood Church (another denominational first). As part of a series of church-life conversations at Hollywood, elder Kirsten Salvador interviewed Dinwiddie in December 2015. That video was uploaded to Hollywood’s YouTube channel on December 15.

The video caught the attention of Andrew and Hilari Henriques, who operate the independent Adventist website prophesyagain.org. The couple posted a 33-minute video in response, attacking Dinwiddie, the Hollywood Church, its pastor, Branden Stoltz, and the Southern California Conference where Hollywood is located. The Henriqueses expressed outrage and called for firings. “I believe somebody has to be held accountable for what is going on at Hollywood,” Andrew Henriques said, looking into the camera. He called for punishment for the church’s pastor, its ministerial director, and conference president Velino Salazar. The video launches into a lengthy excursus on biblical texts dealing with wickedness and with sexuality.

I spoke with both Kirsten Salvador and Rhonda Dinwiddie about the video and how the Hollywood Church was responding to the attack.

Salvador said that the Hollywood Church did not want to respond in a reactionary way, knowing that God can work transformatively through negative situations like the one created by the attack video. She said that the team of elders at Hollywood and the pastor had all been supportive of each other after the video went viral, creating a small firestorm on social media.

“We do not want to feed the flame, but this affords us an opportunity to do something positive,” Salvador said. She said that Dinwiddie, in addition to having thick skin, has a “gentle, kind, compassionate spirit.”

Although within the last year the Seventh-day Adventist Church has begun acknowledging and discussing transgender people in serious ways, the denomination still more often than not talks about trans people rather than listening to them. To continue reversing that trend, I wanted Rhonda Dinwiddie to have the last word, to be able to speak for herself, and not simply be spoken about.

Here are her responses to my questions about this incident:

What does it mean to you to be part of a community that not only welcomes you, but also recognizes your desire to take part in ministry by making you an elder?

My community is, simply, my friends. They come in all shapes, sizes, colors, religions, political ideologies, personal philosophies and sexual and gender identities. I care about all of them, whether they are inside or outside of my Christian community, the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. My local church community is my family . . . my spiritual home. Each member is very important to me. I was asked to become an elder because of my mindset and what I already do, not to set something new into motion. I find love and security in knowing that my church family has recognized my consecration to it by my choosing to serve as soon as I could find my place to do so.

What was your response to the YouTube video from "Prophesy Again," which, though part of the same Worldwide Adventist family, in name at least, was such a completely different approach to you and your being an elder than the Hollywood Church's approach?

That video and what the hosts presented sickened and saddened me. They chose to complain, criticize, condemn and judge the people of my church without ever trying to contact or interview any of us. They showed no interest in learning anything new . . . only interest in using what they already “knew” and in using the Bible and EGW’s writings to propel aspersions against us.

In what ways has the congregation at Hollywood responded on a personal or interpersonal level to the attacks from people like those in the video?

My co-leaders think things through carefully and seek counsel from one another and from leadership within the Conference, Union and Division. We do nothing hastily or in anger. Hatred was no stranger to any of God’s people in Bible times. We should consider ourselves no different, and we are expected to be the recipients of it.

Now, you were a key part of the dialogue process that went into Daneen and Stephen's "Enough Room at the Table" film project. What do you hope that project will accomplish in the Adventist Church?

I am hoping that the films Seventh-Gay Adventists and Enough Room at the Table will be shown in every SDA church on Planet Earth and that they will engender deep conversations within each of their congregations. We need to be a church of question askers, not a church of answer providers spoon feeding all from a silver platter. The diversity of human life must be acknowledged and accepted as a very natural part of life. Hateful discrimination based on any artificial divisions of humans must dissolve through mutual love and respect for one another. Jesus gave us only one Great Command: that we love one another. It is only this, if anything, that can usher in the end of time.

What do you think people—Adventists or otherwise—might be prone to misunderstand about you as an individual, and about transgender people more broadly?

I would guess that a large majority of people, the world over, believe that transpeople are perverts or sex addicts or child molesters etc, etc. Nothing could be further from the truth. We are simply people born with a an unusual condition wherein the brain’s sense of gender does not correspond with the body’s physical gender. Such people need education, and there is plenty available for those who really want to know and understand.

And when it comes to the full range of sexual identities from asexual to pansexual and everything in between, what would you hope the Seventh-day Adventist Church's attitude or response would be to people across the wide spectrum?

I hope that the worldwide Seventh-day Adventist Church will talk publicly with us rather than to or about us without our public participation. Until now, we have been relegated to “it” or “they” rather than “we” or “us.” We have been ostracized and excluded from virtually all conversations. This is what needs changing first and foremost. Then the possibilities will come for true care, understanding and acceptance of sexual and gender variant people. And, I would love to see this happen before my passing.

The last thing that I would very much like to see happen is church-wide, truly open, prayerful and fervent Bible study where all of the supposed proof texts that are used against us are thoughtfully weighed according to their ancient languages and the cultures/societies and textual contexts in which they were used rather than taking them simply at their face value. Study means STUDY, not the most casual, automatic and literal a Victorian reading that many radical extremists are inclined to.

 

Jared Wright is Managing Editor of SpectrumMagazine.org.

http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2016/01/17/seventh-day-adventist-church-and-transgender-people

...........................................................................................................................................................................................................

 

here is the video referred to in the article

video link

[CoAspen]

Most interesting article.

[GayatfootofCross]

love hearing Queer Christians of all faiths...

I want to hear more about JESUS in their lives..that and Community of Faith!

.............................................................................

 

Photographer Eliel Cruz was looking to put a face to LGBT communities of faith and humanize them. Though you certainly wouldn’t know it by reading Queerty, the last pew religion report shows there are more LGBT people of faith than none believers.

His first batch of shots features Christians, mostly in the millennial range, drawing from across gender and race spectrums.

Take a look below as each shares a bit of their story: 

 

[LifeHiscost]

It doesn't make this any different.

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.....Leviticus 18

 

Nothing can change me from being a sinner except Jesus. But to infer that what God is responsible for is the abominable condition of my fallen condition, is tantamount to spitting in the face of what He promises to do for the repentant soul.

 

² And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

³ Give us day by day our daily bread.

⁴ And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but  deliver us from evil ...Luke 11 underlined mine  LHC

 

9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness....1 John 1

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

my story matches his in so many ways...

God has been with me thru all of it without Community.

I don't wish that on anyone else.

 

 

 

 

Kevin Garcia

January 19, 2016

 

 

I Tried to Pray the Gay Away and It Nearly Killed Me

Trigger warning: In this article I talk very frankly about alcohol abuse, suicide, and depression. Please read at your own discretion. Thank you.

//

I’ve met a lot of different people in the past seven months since coming out. Many of them also went through reparative therapy programs. We often joking about trying to “pray the gay away” and what a silly concept it is. And then I realize that there are many people out there who are still trying this. People are desperate to believe that there is a way to change their sexual orientation because they believe that they are broken in some way.

Unable to reconcile their faith and sexuality and/or gender identity, there are many who fall into depression, some who lead double lives, struggle with addiction in silence, and even some who are driven to take their own life.

As I reflected on my history with reparative therapy, and my own attempts at suppressing my sexual orientation, I realized that as much as I make light of this situation, that belief that it was possible for me to change my sexual orientation was more than destructive. It was deadly.

I tried to pray the gay away and it nearly killed me.

//

It was snowing that night. I remember that quite clearly. I remember looking at the red door on my house and thinking how lovely it was. I remembered every single Christmas gathering and birthday party, and I remember thinking, Wow… I’m going to miss this.

The house was no longer a home though. Dad had gone. My brothers were now living in different states. Probably a product of my sin. I was the one, with my homosexual attractions, who had let sin into our home. And that sin had infected everything. You have to do this. It’s the only way to make things right.

I had plotted it out for months at this point. I had silenced my thoughts about the consequences of what would happen to my family and friends. They’ll be fine, I’m sure. Sad, but they’ll get over it.

My foot slowly pressed the gas and I began to pull away from my house for what I believed to be the last time.

Our neighborhood was a golfing community. Golf cart paths weaved throughout and at the very front was a lake. It was beautiful in the moonlight. There was a part of me that thought about driving my car into that lake. It was dramatic and poetic, as was my nature. I saw the movie playing out in my head:

Careening across the field, slowly sinking into the freezing water, letting its icy cold fingers embrace my limbs and lungs and just drifting off into a sweet nothingness. And then opening my eyes to see the golden gates of Heaven, feeling the embrace of my Savior…

But it would probably be my luck that, in my attempts to attempt such a poetic end, the lake would be too shallow and I’d end up having to explain to the tow truck driver and my mother how my car ended up stuck in the lake.

That would be embarrassing.

Jesus, if I can’t stop my body from sinning, I’ll end my sinful body and come see you. I trust that you’ll forgive even this. That’s what I prayed.

Driving past the lake I giggled a touch at the foolish notion. No, what I was doing was a much better way. Much more my style.

I got to the bar, ordered a top shelf triple gin and tonic, and began talking to strangers. I wanted to know about their lives. Most were students, some were in Greek life, some were just locals like me. We danced to the terrible pop music that was playing. I took some shots, had another triple, and let my mind get blurry and dark.

What a good way to end. Beautiful strangers. Quality booze.

Not feeling anything.

When the lights started to come on, I knew it was my cue. Closed up my tab, stumbled out the door. Everything was going fine.

That was fun. I’m ready now. I was going to get in my car, turn the key, get on the highway, and probably crash and die. Maybe I’d fall asleep at the wheel. Maybe I’d crash into a tree. I didn’t know. I didn’t care. But I was ready.

And as I was walking to my car, I blacked out. I have this small blip of memory of someone. I think I knew them but I’m not sure. And next thing I know I’m waking up in my bed. My keys are on the nightstand. I look out the window. My car is parked on the street. Not a scratch on it.

…How am I alive? This wasn’t supposed to happen.

//

It had been ten years of trying to pray the gay away. Ten years of trying to fix myself. Ten years of struggling to grasp why I was gay and why God would allow this to happen to me—a Christian. I had been to therapists and group meetings and even went around the world as a missionary, hoping that through these acts of penance, God would grant me freedom from what I was feeling.

These unwanted homosexual attractions were something I viewed as separate from me. They were a cancer to be cured, a tumor on my heart to be cut out. I was terrified to share my torment with many people because I was ashamed. I was told that if I just prayed the right prayers, if I fasted, if I did the “heart work,” that maybe, hopefully, God would grant me the grace to overcome these temptations.

But nothing ever worked.

Not therapy, not prayer, not getting “demons” cast out of me, not fasting, not group confessions, not holy oil, nothing. For ten years I was convinced it was something wrong with me. It had to be me. I wasn’t ever going to be good enough for God because I wasn’t strong enough to overcome this trial.

This warped view of myself distorted my logic. It caused me to view my life as invaluable. It pushed me to take my life because a life full of this, what I saw as a horrible pattern of sin, a terrible addiction that I couldn’t hope to overcome, was not worth living.

So I tried.

I tried to kill myself because I saw my heart as incontrovertibly damaged.
I believed my soul as marred beyond any hope of healing.

And it didn’t work.

After that night at the bar, when I woke up in my bed with the world’s worst hangover, I asked God why he kept me alive. And it was almost like a light came on in my head, like a candle in the darkest room. What the hell was I thinking?

I knew something had to change. I knew that there had to be a different way of looking at this.

Praying the gay away nearly killed me and, if I hoped to live at all, something had to change. Click To Tweet

That’s when I began reading medical journals on sexual orientation. I began exploring new kinds of theology, new ways of talking about God that I never knew were possible. I read stories of people who had walked what I’d been through. I was amazed. Something else was possible. More than that, I didn’t just have to survive, but I had an opportunity to actually thrive in this life.

The next year was still a struggle as I worked out my personal theology, but the biggest thing I look at as a clear indicator of God’s will for my life and for other people who struggle with their sexual orientation or gender identity is this:

Jesus said we’d know a tree by its fruit. So what is the fruit of your life? Is what you are doing bringing you life or death?

As I worked to suppress and change my sexual orientation, continually being met by failure, I internalized those failures as being my fault. I believed God was displeased with me, that I wasn’t doing enough, that I couldn’t change.

What what was the fruit of that labor?

Literal death. I wanted to kill myself and nearly did.

So if the way of Jesus is supposed to lead us to life, I am convinced that trying to correct my orientation is not in line with the heart of Christ as it lead me to a place of death.

And this just isn’t my story. There are thousands of LGBTQ+ individuals who can tell you that the same self-hate I experienced also drove them to similar places. And enough is enough.

No more.

No more stories of people being pushed to the brink of taking their life because they can’t fix themselves.
No more transgender individuals throwing their lives away because of familial rejection.
No more marriages that are torn apart because one partner hoped and prayed and believed that a heterosexual marriage would heal them of something that is naturally a part of who they are.

No more death.

There is a better way. And it starts with embracing good science and psychology. It starts with hearing people’s stories and believing them.

God has set me free to live a life that is abundant and full of His glory. You can look at just the past seven months since I came out and see that depression, suicidal thoughts, and much of my negative self-talk has fled because I am standing in the truth. I feel like a whole new person. And I cannot and will not go back to a shame-filled, half existence when I know there is so much life to live.

The teaching that one has to change their sexual orientation in order to be in right relationship with God is wrong, dangerous, and is killing people.

There is research to support this, science to back this up, and countless stories from people like me who have survived reparative therapy practices and teachings from conservative leadership.

Regardless of where God leads an individual in this matter, we have to begin to embrace people where they are, and give them to the freedom to wrestle through their theology, and land where they feel closest to God. That could be celibacy. That could be staying faithful in a mixed orientation marriage. That could be embracing progressive theology and pursuing a same-sex relationship.

But don’t lie to people and tell them the have to fix themselves before they come into a full relationship with God.

We must choose the way that leads to life, and show others that path when they have lost their way.

 

---

 

 

 I know that this is an incredibly heavy subject, and I thank you for reading. I know this story is just one of thousands. If you, or someone you know, needs help, ask for help. 

For free, safe confidential support for LGBTQ young people, you can contact The Trevor Project. You can also call them at 866-488-7386.

I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. Is this also a part of your story? What would you say to an LGBTQ+ person who is struggling with simply just holding on to life? 

http://www.thekevingarcia.com/i-tried-to-pray-the-gay-away-and-it-nearly-killed-me/?utm_source=theKevinGarcia.com+Subscriber+List&utm_campaign=d12078a9fb-RSS_Feed_2_15_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0e0792d07e-d12078a9fb-314954953

[LifeHiscost]

On 1/20/2016 at 10:04 AM, GayatfootofCross said:

my story matches his in so many ways...

God has been with me thru all of it without Community.

I don't wish that on anyone else.

 

 

 

 

Kevin Garcia

January 19, 2016

 

---

 

 

 I know that this is an incredibly heavy subject, and I thank you for reading. I know this story is just one of thousands. If you, or someone you know, needs help, ask for help. 

For free, safe confidential support for LGBTQ young people, you can contact The Trevor Project. You can also call them at 866-488-7386.

I’d love to hear your thoughts in the comments below. Is this also a part of your story? What would you say to an LGBTQ+ person who is struggling with simply just holding on to life? 

http://www.thekevingarcia.com/i-tried-to-pray-the-gay-away-and-it-nearly-killed-me/?utm_source=theKevinGarcia.com+Subscriber+List&utm_campaign=d12078a9fb-RSS_Feed_2_15_2015&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_0e0792d07e-d12078a9fb-314954953

    The teaching that one has to change their sexual orientation in order to be in right relationship with God is wrong, dangerous, and is killing people. 

How would that fit into this instruction from the Word?

They stumble because they do not obey God’s word, and so they meet the fate that was planned for them.

9But you are not like that, for you are a chosen people. You are royal priests,^f a holy nation, God’s very own possession. As a result, you can show others the goodness of God, for he called you out of the darkness into his wonderful light.

10“Once you had no identity as a people;

now you are God’s people.

Once you received no mercy;

now you have received God’s mercy.”^g

11Dear friends, I warn you as “temporary residents and foreigners” to keep away from worldly desires that wage war against your very souls. 12Be careful to live properly among your unbelieving neighbors. Then even if they accuse you of doing wrong, they will see your honorable behavior, and they will give honor to God when he judges the world.^{....1 Peter 2}

^{God is Love!~Jesus saves!} 

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

I’m Gay at a Conservative Christian College

Posted Feb 21 2014 by Anonymous with 631 Comments

 11.1K 739 53 14.1KGoogle +7

This article was published in a student-run newspaper at a right-wing Christian University. After making significant changes to its doctrinal statement, ousting many of its staff and faculty, and relieving a gay student from all his ministry opportunities—despite his commitment to being single and following the community covenant—the University appears hostile for other students who also experience same-sex attraction. The writer has asked to remain anonymous to protect his identity.

Medieval author Christine de Pizan had some choice words for the conspiracies of her time—after all, blaming women for corruption in society and oppressing them as a result of such blame did not line up with her own observations of the female “race.” In The Book of the City of Ladies, Pizan argues that “Even if some wicked women have done evil things, it still seems to me that this is far outweighed by all the good that other women have done and continue to do.” Furthermore, she says, “This should prove to you that not all men’s arguments are based on reason, and that these men in particular are wrong.” I have utmost empathy for Pizan, because people like me are also mischaracterized and thrown to the curb far too often—thanks to individuals acting in “the name of God and the Bible.”

The fact is that I’m gay. No, I’m not nor have I ever been in a relationship with another guy. I’m not writing to change your political or theological perspective on the issue, either. Instead, I want to stand up against the mischaracterization that we (the gay community) receive all the time in places like my school. You say, “dude, I’m not condemning you at all—but the gay community is an endorsement of a sinful lifestyle! Don’t identify with it.” Exactly my point. In the same manner of Pizan’s time, when women as a collective were ignorantly thought to have corrupt motives, the Church today does not even try to understand the gay community. Historically speaking, people fear what they don’t know—anything that looks different. And I believe that’s our problem. We look threatening, and it brings a whole host of mischaracterization.

Related: The F Word

This mischaracterization puts me into a constant state of fear, not only at school but also at home. My parents have no idea that I don’t like women, but I cannot tell them. In a meeting with Christopher Yuan (a well known author and speaker) last year, he suggested I “test the waters” and talk about the issue before coming out. So I did. I told them that I had met a gay kid at my school (sort of true) and that I was helping him by serving as an accountability partner (also sort of true). In reality, though, I am that gay kid. Their response, you ask? They told me to get away from him—simply because he might “make me gay” too. My mother also said that she “couldn’t believe gay people were at a Christian school. He must be sneaking out at night to have promiscuous sex! That’s what gay people do, after all.” I nearly began to sob—how could they say such things about their own son, knowing or not? How could they be so ignorant? The point is that Conservative Christianity doesn’t get a bad reputation for believing gay sex is a sin. Conservative Christianity gets a bad reputation because it refuses to understand the gay community.

From the outside, all that Christians see are a bunch of men in speedos dancing at pride parades; they see a group that wants to corrupt families and turn against God. They don’t ever stop and think, “Why do they host pride parades?” They refuse to think that, gasp, gay people might actually desire genuine love and families to raise—not sex, sex, and more sex. Worst of all, they refuse to see how lonely I am. I do not believe I was designed for singleness. I know what the classic response is. “But singleness is a blessing! 1 Corinthians 7:8b says, ‘It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do.’” That is correct, but don’t forget verse 9b: “for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.” Do you understand the incredible, God-given, natural urge within me to have intimacy with another human being? Do you understand that one day, on my death bed, I will be in the hospital and breathing my last few breaths—and will glance around the room only to discover that no one is there? No husband ever existed, no children raised, no family legacy to leave behind. This… this is not natural.

The gay community isn’t an evil effort to destroy morals and God. The gay community is made up of thousands of people, just like me, who desire love and unity through marriage. As I said before, I don’t want to change your views theologically or politically. What I want to change is the flawed and ignorant fear towards the gay community. When you see a pride parade, understand that gay people are told throughout their entire lives that they are scum. Pride is an event for gay people to feel normal and… “not scum.” I’m not endorsing everything that happens, and I personally don’t like those parades. I’m simply explaining that you mustn’t live and act out of fear toward the gay community. When we ask you to legalize gay marriage, we aren’t secretly plotting to get rid of morals and destroy families. Actually, at a time when you straight folks are divorcing more than ever, we’re the ones asking to get married! Like Pizan argues about women, I must argue that gay people have done far more good than bad. It’s well known that gay folks often find themselves in human rights campaigns, feeding the homeless, and caring for the community in general. Are you sure we’re destroying society?

Related: It is Time for the American Christian Church to Surrender the Gay Marriage Fight, Apologize, and Share Love

At the end of the day, I’m not actually for or against gay marriage (at a personal level). I’m still figuring that out—and studying scripture first. But I’m in danger. When the university administration chooses to strip a gay student of all his leadership and ministry positions (and he ends up at a nearby state school) because he’s not sure what he believes on the issue, that’s a problem. It means that for the rest of my time at school, my status is on the line. I have to live in fear of my own “Christian” community and what they might do to me. They fear us because they think we’re parasites. They think we’re in a massive plot to destroy your morals and theology. In their ignorance, they act. And thanks to those actions, I must fear. And in my fear, I am deeply broken. I leave you with this question: If Jesus was in charge of my school, would he endorse a religious bubble built on codes and regulations that strip people of their ministry and leadership opportunities—even their fate at the school—for questioning the validity of such positions? Would students like me have to live in fear?

- See more at: http://www.redletterchristians.org/im-gay-conservative-christian-college/#sthash.2rJzYETQ.dpuf

http://www.redletterchristians.org/im-gay-conservative-christian-college/

[GayatfootofCross]

Here is another piece of the puzzle why GAY CHRISTIANS have a deeper understanding.

 

 

There are so many more examples.

Just as God welcomed each of you where you at and move you closer to the Truth (HIM).

He does the same for your local Church

He does the same for a nation.

He is relational and asks us to be the same with one another.

 

[LifeHiscost]

On 1/3/2016 at 4:18 PM, GayatfootofCross said:

even understanding a smidgen of these things will help decompress the issue on both sides.

The Christians (or not) inside of the Church and the people (Christian or not) outside who's hearts are looking for a God that loves them.

 

God want's us to reflect Him in his dealings with us.

Do we know how God really deals with us?

We are worse than we think

God is better than we think.

 

 

 

 

Every moment I spend fixing my gaze on any depravity of fallen humanity or satans' hold on mankind, including my own, which satan is ever ready to dish out, just that much of the righteousness of Christ is more difficult to see.

 

18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord....2 Corinthians 3

 

32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”...John 12

 

⁷ Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and against you; pray to the Lord that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people.

⁸ Then the Lord said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” ....Numbers 21

 

¹¹ Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all....Colossians 3

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

 

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

1 hour ago, phkrause said:

I agree Kdogae86! I had the same thought, but didn't want this thread to get into a heated debate, because of many misunderstandings!! I personally think the title could've been "More Sinners are staying in Church." Just my opinion.

 

And to all ..

This sub forum is here for the express purpose of sharing experiences of a very specific kind of sinner.

Very unique and just as close to the heart of God as all sinners are.

And going by all the non gay or un outed gays (SILENT?) posts here ...ummm... needs some serious education.

IMHO

May the Joy of the LORD be all peoples strength here.

 

I am making a new thread on why I call myself a Gay Christian.

[CoAspen]

My sex is male, it defines who I am...in part, a very large part!!!

I do so love pronouncements of the 'more informed'.....

Quote

Again, anyone who wears their sexuality on their sleeve is deluded in perversion and sin.

Did someone just set their self up as the source of "truth"? 

I not afraid of who I am! I'm male, NW European descent and proud of it!

If a  person wants to hide their sex, go for it! Just don't expect the rest of us to be like that person.

[CoAspen]

Oh, and if you don't like that we have a thread for gay issues....don't read it! By all means avoid it!!!