Who is the One New Man Created on the Cross?

[Samie]

^NKJEphesians 2:13-16   ¹³ But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.  ¹⁴ For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation,  ¹⁵ having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,  ¹⁶ and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Clearly, the verses above speak of one new man created in Jesus. Who is this one new man?

[Samie]

Who is this one new man?

As I have for so many times posted in many other threads, this one new man is Jesus as the Head, Jews and Gentiles as the Body. 

Who among the Jews and Gentiles are in the Body?  For me, those whose names are in the Book of Life.  For as long as one's name is in the Book of Life, he is part of the Body of Christ.

[Samie]

Why was there a need for people to be fashioned into the body of Christ?

Justice demands the life of the sinner, for the wages of sin is death. But if the sinner himself dies for the sin he first commits, then he would have paid for the sin God hates, but God would have eternally lost the sinner He loves. And it behooved God who so loved us to make a way whereby we can both "pay" for the sin we committed and at the same time have another shot at eternal life.

So on the cross, God through Christ, created a new man: His Son the Head, Humanity - Jews & Gentiles - the Body. When the Head died, the Body died with Him (2 Cor 5:14, 15; Heb 2:9); when He resurrected, the Body was resurrected TOGETHER with Him (Eph 2:4-6; Col 2:13), born again into a living hope of life eternal (2 Pet 1:3).

His death brought us Life. By His stripes we were healed.

[Samie]

Upon the creation of the One New Man at the cross, the apostle Paul explained in the succeeding verses that the two groups - Jews & Gentiles - who were reconciled to God through the one body at the cross both became members of the household or family of God:

^RSVEphesians 2:16-20   ¹⁶ and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby bringing the hostility to an end.  ¹⁷ And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near;  ¹⁸ for through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father.  ¹⁹ So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,  ²⁰ built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone

What is this one body? Yes, the Church.  The relationship that exists between Christ and His Body - the Church, is further explained in the analogy of husband and wife:

^RSV Ephesians 5:23-32   ²³ For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.  ²⁴ As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.  ²⁵ Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,  ²⁶ that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,  ²⁷ that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.  ²⁸ Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.  ²⁹ For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church,  ³⁰ because we are members of his body.  ³¹ "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."  ³²This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church

[Samie]

The Church is the Body of Christ. Being part of the Body of Christ is being member of the household or family of God.  Membership into the family of God was brought about by what God through Christ did for humanity - Jews & Gentiles - on the cross, where Jews and Gentiles were fashioned into the Body of Christ. No requirement was imposed upon any Jew or Gentile for him to become member of the household or family of God. The Father made us all members of His family through His Son.  Now that we are members of His Family, we are expected to live lives worthy of our calling:

^RSV Ephesians 4:4-15   ⁴ There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call,  ⁵ one Lord, one faith, one baptism,  ⁶ one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all.  ⁷ But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ's gift.  ⁸ Therefore it is said, "When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men."  ⁹ (In saying, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?  ¹⁰ He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.)  ¹¹ And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers,  ¹²to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,  ¹³until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;  ¹⁴so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles.  ¹⁵ Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ

The above verses speak of growing into mature manhood and stop being children.  This simply implies that in the family of God, in the Body of Christ, in the Church, we are not all in the same level of spiritual maturity.  Yet we all are expected to live in accordance with what the Head expects the Body to do.  This simply translates to overcoming evil with good.

In the 1st Dimension of the Gospel, God made us members of His Family; in the 2nd Dimension, we are to live in accordance with the norm of His Family: overcome evil with good.

[teresaq]

Ephesians 2:16-20   ¹⁶ and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross

     I need a verse that states a body was created at the cross as this one in no way states that concept, nor implies it.

[Samie]

     I need a verse that states a body was created at the cross as this one in no way states that concept, nor implies it.

It's quoted in the OP.

[Samie]

     I need a verse that states a body was created at the cross as this one in no way states that concept, nor implies it.

It's quoted in the OP.

Not only was a body created: a new man was created. And anyone in his right frame of mind very well knows a man has a body.  And that body was created when the one new man was created at the cross.

^NKJ Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, ¹⁵ having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace

[teresaq]

Where? I know you are seeing it somewhere, but I can't see that at all. There is no place that states that this creation was at the cross instead of at the incarnation.

[Samie]

Where? I know you are seeing it somewhere, but I can't see that at all. There is no place that states that this creation was at the cross instead of at the incarnation.

Oh I can't force you to see it, Sister. Just read the verse I recently quoted Eph 2:14,15. Sorry if you can't see it there.

[teresaq]

I've read those scriptures numerous times and it isn't there. The scripture refers to Christ's physical body (person) that died on the cross. There is no reference to any sort of other body being created at that time that also died, which would be two bodies, if another one was created at the cross.

Edited October 18, 2015 by teresaq

[Samie]

I've read those scriptures numerous times and it isn't there. The scripture refers to Christ's physical body (person) that died on the cross. There is no reference to any sort of other body being created at that time that also died, which would be two bodies, if another one was created at the cross.

Yes, Jesus died on the cross for us.  That death was for each of us. And because He died for us all, we likewise died with Him:

^NKJ Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

^NKJ 2 Corinthians 5:14-15   ¹⁴ For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died;  ¹⁵and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again.

[teresaq]

If you're going to continue to jump around and not address my responses I won't be interacting with you any longer. I'm sure it won't be a loss to either of us.

 

Not to mention that such responses are insulting with the intent of putting the other person under the commenter and we know who inspires that!

Edited October 18, 2015 by teresaq

[pnattmbtc]

If the body of Christ was created at the cross, how was anyone saved before then?

[Samie]

If the body of Christ was created at the cross, how was anyone saved before then?

In exactly the same way we are saved now: through the merits of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

[Samie]

If you're going to continue to jump around and not address my responses I won't be interacting with you any longer. I'm sure it won't be a loss to either of us.

 

Not to mention that such responses are insulting with the intent of putting the other person under the commenter and we know who inspires that!

What made you to comment that way, Sister?  Did I not address your question? You said you did not see in Eph 2:14, 15 that the body died with Christ at the cross. So I provided you other verses that tell us clearly it really happened.  Scriptures proved my point. Why accuse me  of putting you down and of being inspired by whoever you have in mind?

[pnattmbtc]

In exactly the same way we are saved now: through the merits of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I agree that it is through Christ.  I don't know what you say "through the merits" of Christ, as what Scripture speaks of the "merits of Christ."?  This is an aside, though, but feel free to respond if you wish.  Back to your main question, as to what the body of Christ is, assuming that the body of Christ consists of believers, and there were believers before the cross, then the body of Christ must have existed before the cross.

[teresaq]

What made you to comment that way, Sister?  Did I not address your question? You said you did not see in Eph 2:14, 15 that the body died with Christ at the cross. So I provided you other verses that tell us clearly it really happened.  Scriptures proved my point. Why accuse me  of putting you down and of being inspired by whoever you have in mind?

We're done. LOL So done. LOL

[Samie]

I agree that it is through Christ.  I don't know what you say "through the merits" of Christ, as what Scripture speaks of the "merits of Christ."?  This is an aside, though, but feel free to respond if you wish.  Back to your main question, as to what the body of Christ is, assuming that the body of Christ consists of believers, and there were believers before the cross, then the body of Christ must have existed before the cross.

God saved us by His grace which He gave us through Christ before time began. He is not bounded by time and space. What He did for us in whatever point in time is both applicable forward and backward in human time.

^NKJ 2 Timothy 1:9-10   ⁹ [God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,  ¹⁰ but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

[Samie]

We're done. LOL So done. LOL

Ok, Sis. Thanks for your time. I am looking forward to discussing with you again anytime you so desire.

[pnattmbtc]

I agree that it is through Christ.  I don't know what you say "through the merits" of Christ, as what Scripture speaks of the "merits of Christ."?  This is an aside, though, but feel free to respond if you wish.  Back to your main question, as to what the body of Christ is, assuming that the body of Christ consists of believers, and there were believers before the cross, then the body of Christ must have existed before the cross.

Samie: God saved us by His grace which He gave us through Christ before time began.

This doesn't make sense.

He is not bounded by time and space.

God exists in time.  God is not a timeless being.  The Scriptures are full of texts which demonstrate this.  For example, if God did not exist in time, He could not think, or plan, or experience emotions, so any text which speaks of God's thinking or planning or experiencing any emotion contradicts the idea that God is timeless, if this is what you wanting to express.

What He did for us in whatever point in time is both applicable forward and backward in human time.

Not sure what you mean by this, but it appears that where we have a very large disagreement is in regards to what the problem is that needs to be fixed.  What I perceive to be the problem that needs to be fixed is that we were enemies in our own minds, alienated from God.  We need to be reconciled, or set right, or justified, or born again, or converted, or forgiven (these are all speaking of the same process), and this happens when are our hearts are melted by the love of God shining from the cross, which leads us to repentance.  We need to be transformed into the image of Christ -- by beholding we become changed -- and this can only happen during the time that we exist.

To be saved, our minds need to change; that is, how we think needs to change.  The magic all happens in the mind.

Now the *events* which shape our thoughts happened in the past, and for Abraham and the others pre-cross it was future, but the process was the same for both he and the others and us.  We are all saved by faith in Christ.

 

NKJ 2 Timothy 1:9-10   9 [God] has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,  10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, whohas abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel

The *purpose* and *grace* existed before time began, which is simply pointing to God's character.  The point being made is a simple one, which is the same as the following:

The cross is a revelation to our dull senses of the pain that, from its very inception, sin has brought to the heart of God. Every departure from the right, every deed of cruelty, every failure of humanity to reach His ideal, brings grief to Him. When there came upon Israel the calamities that were the sure result of separation from God,—subjugation by their enemies, cruelty, and death,—it is said that “His soul was grieved for the misery of Israel.” “In all their affliction He was afflicted: ... and He bare them, and carried them all the days of old.” Judges 10:16; Isaiah 63:9. {Ed 263.1} 

God's character has not changed, but is the same since time began.  What changed is that that which had not been manifest was revealed. Notice the text says "but has now been revealed".  What was revealed?  The character of God (or, in the language of the text, His purpose and grace).

We were saved, when we believed, according to the purpose and grace of God, which has always existed, but has now been revealed in its fullness through Christ.  This theme is repeated by Paul in many place in many different ways.  For example:

1 In the past God spoke to our ancestors many times and in many ways through the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us through his Son. He is the one through whom God created the universe, the one whom God has chosen to possess all things at the end. 3 He reflects the brightness of God's glory and is the exact likeness of God's own being, sustaining the universe with his powerful word.

 Here it speaks of Christ as the "exact likeness of God's own being", which, in modern English, would be "Christ perfectly represented God's character."  John has the same theme throughout the book (indeed, this is the them of John), perhaps most eloquently expressed by Jesus Himself who said, "Have I been with you so long, and you have not known Me?  When you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."

To summarize, I see to areas of lack of clarity.

1.What is the problem that God needed to fix?

2.What happens now vs. what happened in the past.

The answer to 1, is we were enemies, and need to be transformed into friends.  The answer to 2 is, what happened in the past is the supreme revelation of God's character, and what happens in the present is our believing in what God has revealed.

[Samie]

The transformation happened at the cross through Him Crucified. The reconciliation happened at the cross through Him Crucified. Everything God did for the salvation of souls all happened at the cross through Him Crucified. God has empowered us through the cross through Him Crucified. The One New Man came into existence at the cross through Him Crucified. Our names - that of Adam and Eve and all their descendants - were written in the Book of Life because of Him Crucified. What remains for us to do now is overcome evil with good. For only overcomers will not be blotted out from the Book of Life.

What you were discussing in your post is only applicable to those to whom the message of Christianity has come. To those who lived and died without personally knowing about Christ that could not be applied nor to those who died before the age of accountability. Just like Newton's mechanics vis-a-vis Einstein's mechanics. While Newton's is only applicable to speeds far, far below the speed of light and fails when velocities approach the speed of light, Einstein's is applicable for both. And I guess my position seems like the latter.

[pnattmbtc]

What is it you think happened at the cross?  Let's take a given person, we'll call him Fred.  How can Fred be taken to heaven and be happy?  I'm thinking of the following passage from The Great Controversy.

Could those whose lives have been spent in rebellion against God be suddenly transported to heaven and witness the high, the holy state of perfection that ever exists there,-- every soul filled with love, every countenance beaming with joy, enrapturing music in melodious strains rising in honor of God and the Lamb, and ceaseless streams of light flowing upon the redeemed from the face of Him who sitteth upon the throne,--could those whose hearts are filled with hatred of God, of truth and holiness, mingle with the heavenly throng and join their songs of praise? Could they endure the glory of God and the Lamb? No, no; years of probation were granted them, that they might form characters for heaven; but they have never trained the mind to love purity; they have never learned the language of heaven, and now it is too late. A life of rebellion against God has unfitted them for heaven. Its purity, holiness, and peace would be torture to them; the glory of God would be a consuming fire. They would long to flee from that holy place. They would welcome destruction, that they might be hidden from the face of Him who died to redeem them. The destiny of the wicked is fixed by their own choice. Their exclusion from heaven is voluntary with themselves, and just and merciful on the part of God. (pages 542-543)

What this points out is there must be harmony between one's character and the principles of heaven.  What I posted previously explains how this happens: as Christ is revealed, and the person responds to the Holy Spirit, the believer is transformed into the same image, so that the principles of Christ become a part of the believer's character.  Like Paul, the believer says, "Not I, but Christ", which is the principle of heaven.  And so, such a one can be happy in heaven, because his principles coincide with the principles of heaven.

How does this happen in your scenario or way of thinking? 

[Samie]

What is it you think happened at the cross?  Let's take a given person, we'll call him Fred.  How can Fred be taken to heaven and be happy?  I'm thinking of the following passage from The Great Controversy.

What this points out is there must be harmony between one's character and the principles of heaven.  What I posted previously explains how this happens: as Christ is revealed, and the person responds to the Holy Spirit, the believer is transformed into the same image, so that the principles of Christ become a part of the believer's character.  Like Paul, the believer says, "Not I, but Christ", which is the principle of heaven.  And so, such a one can be happy in heaven, because his principles coincide with the principles of heaven.

How does this happen in your scenario or way of thinking? 

I agree with you, brother. What you are discussing is simply overcoming evil with good. And to overcome evil with good is to coincide with the principles of heaven.

[pnattmbtc]

I agree with you, brother. What you are discussing is simply overcoming evil with good. And to overcome evil with good is to coincide with the principles of heaven.

I'm glad you agreed.  Do you agree that the magic happens in the mind, as I put it?  That is, overcoming evil with good can only happen as we make decisions, exercising our will.  Our decisions will only be good decisions if we "have the mind of Christ", as Paul puts it in Philippians 2.  Some versions put this as "the mindset of Christ", which is OK too, I think, as a translation.  The idea is that the "kenosis", the condescension, described by Paul (he was actually quoting a well known Christian hymn, which some scholars think was the first Christian hymn) will become the mindset of the believer, who is transformed into the same image by beholding Christ.

Before Christ came, Christ was communicated by "types and shadows" (Heb 1:1), and afterwards, there was the fullness of the revelation which Christ revealed, written down for us by inspired writers.  The principle is the same in both cases; by beholding Christ we become changed.

The cross is powerful by way of what it reveals.