Wingnut Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I am 100% in favour of all Jesus-centred overcoming Samie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 1 minute ago, Wingnut said: I am 100% in favour of all Jesus-centred overcoming And there is no overcoming apart from Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 37 minutes ago, Wingnut said: I am 100% in favour of all Jesus-centred overcoming What does this mean? (Jesus-centered overcoming; I can go first if you want). Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 2 hours ago, pnattmbtc said: What does this mean? (Jesus-centered overcoming; I can go first if you want). For instance, praying to the Father in Jesus name for help to "forgive others their trespasses against me" - except it would sound less formal like "Fred is getting on my one remaining nerve and I am about to lay an egg so Father please keep him away from me so I don't have something far more serious to repent of". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 I am sure someone can give a better testimony than the one I just gave which the software refuses to allow me to edit :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Here is another reason why God could NEVER allow people into His kingdom on the basis of their love or overcoming. This proof is based upon His personality. What I am about to write next I write carefully and with reverence, because one should not lightly talk (nonsense) about God's personality. God has one trait to His personality which is central to my argument. Seventeen times God Himself refers to this trait of His, but I will quote only one reference. Exodus 34:14 For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God: For those who have never dated a jealous woman, let me explain what the experience is like. She is fairly obsessed with you, and obsessed that you do not see other women. If you so much as flirt with another woman, you will see a monster emerge from her sweet self. Be unfaithful and she will fly into a blind rage, slap you, cry, and take forever to get over it (not that I speak from experience ). Every day when you return home, she will want you to account for every second of your time, will want to know every detail of every woman you interacted with during the day. She will ask you what every woman wore and whether you think they are pretty or not. You will find that whatever you say will be the wrong answer. Not that God is like that. But He is a jealous God, and his "name is Jealous". I will tell you however what a jealous woman and a jealous God have in common. This scripture tells it all. Matthew 22:36-40 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. For a jealous woman, its the same. Thou shalt love HER with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment for satisfying a jealous woman. It is the one thing she has to have. Now let's suppose that you show love or overcoming - will that satisfy her. Answer: No. Not unless that love and overcoming is directed towards her. If you love someone or something else she will regard it as competing for your time and affection. Thus she will hate you for that love or overcoming. If you overcome, even just some bad habit it will leave her stone cold, unless you are picking up your socks or taking out the garbage for her. God is like that in the following regard. Let's suppose you keep the sabbath but you keep it like a real Martha. You preach a good sermon, entertain the poor at your house but don't spend time with Him, don't have the time that sabbath to pray or think about Him - this will annoy God rather than please God. A jealous woman and a jealous God want you to spend time with them. God wants you to be a Mary rather than a Martha. A jealous woman craves the time you spend with her. She loves the little things you do which prove you were thinking of her. Likewise, when you give a cup of tap water to a thirsty beggar, thinking of God and doing it with Him in mind, this pleases God more than giving up smoking because it is bad for your health. The latter overcoming is not God motivated. So why can those from all other religions and superstitions and atheistic backgrounds not do enough good, or overcome enough to be considered worthy of God's kingdom? Because they do not know Him personally. Their vain and Satan inspired religions infuriate God. Their overcoming motivated by self improvement or any other motive other than to please Him, cuts no ice with Him. So all those who have ever lived and died not knowing the God of the Bible, have not loved Him. They have not kept the first command. They have served idols and philosophies that have irritated Him. They are not His people so He is not jealous over them. The OT tells us how jealous God was over ancient Israel. When He loved them, he really loved them and blessed them. But when they turned to idols, He really, really was furious in His jealousy towards them, chasing them into captivity. God calls or woos those He chooses. They become His. He becomes jealous and possessive over them. That is how He felt about the Old Testament people of faith like Abraham. He loved them. That is how He feels about us Christians today. His kingdom is reserved for those He loves. Not the great unwashed and unsaved masses who have never known Him. And in the 8M there will come a time when the great unwashed will rise to "Hear the word of the Lord". Then He will set His affection on them, just as He has on us today who were born out of season, as His firstfruits. And nobody, but nobody slips into the kingdom by some back-door. Everyone will be called and offered the choice of loving Him or not. And God has placed before us real demon "gods" which we find in every religion today. We can set our affection on these alternate gods. God will never allow anyone into His kingdom on the basis of their love or overcoming, unless He is the object of that love and overcoming. And in pagan or atheistic cultures, their love and overcoming is not directed at God, so it is of zero worth. When cultures worship Buddha or Allah or ancestral spirits - the list of religious gods is endless - they are not worshiping him, so their worship is like smoke in His nostrils. Only those who set their affection on Him, will He gather to Himself and guard jealously for all eternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 1 hour ago, Wingnut said: Here is another reason why God could NEVER allow people into His kingdom on the basis of their love or overcoming. . . . God will never allow anyone into His kingdom on the basis of their love or overcoming, unless He is the object of that love and overcoming. And in pagan or atheistic cultures, their love and overcoming is not directed at God, so it is of zero worth. When cultures worship Buddha or Allah or ancestral spirits - the list of religious gods is endless - they are not worshiping him, so their worship is like smoke in His nostrils. Only those who set their affection on Him, will He gather to Himself and guard jealously for all eternity. And those who have set their affection on Him have overcome the evil of setting their affection on other gods. Overcomers, nonetheless. Therefore only overcomers - those whose names were not blotted from the BOL - will be allowed into His Kingdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Am just a bit comforted knowing God will not consult anybody when it comes to judging who the overcomers are. If Wingnut is to be consulted, I think many whom God through Christ had decided not to blot, will be recommended blotted out by Wingnut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 32 minutes ago, Samie said: And those who have set their affection on Him have overcome the evil of setting their affection on other gods. Overcomers, nonetheless. Therefore only overcomers - those whose names were not blotted from the BOL - will be allowed into His Kingdom. Hi Samie There are 2.2 billion Christians. The rest do not know the God of the Bible - that specific God. Therefore there is no way they can love Him. Even Judaism, without Jesus is displeasing to Him He has not revealed Himself to non-Christians or set His love on them. Their serving other Gods vexes Him. They are not saved (yet). Their overcoming is not to please Him, so it does not please Him. They will get a turn to "Hear the Word of the Lord". Religion Adherents percents Christianity 2.2 billion[3] 31.50% Islam 1.6 billion[4] 22.32% Secular[a]/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist ≤1.1 billion 15.35% Hinduism 1 billion 13.95% Chinese traditional religion[c] 394 million 5.50% Buddhism 376 million 5.25% Ethnic religions excluding some in separate categories 300 million 4.19% African traditional religions 100 million 1.40% Sikhism 23 million 0.32% Spiritism 15 million 0.21% Judaism 14 million 0.20% Bahá'í 7.0 million 0.10% Jainism 4.2 million 0.06% Shinto 4.0 million 0.06% Cao Dai 4.0 million 0.06% Zoroastrianism 2.6 million 0.04% Tenrikyo 2.0 million 0.03% Neo-Paganism 1.0 million 0.01% Unitarian Universalism 0.8 million 0.01% Rastafarianism 0.6 million 0.01% total 7167 million 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 2 hours ago, Wingnut said: God calls or woos those He chooses. They become His. He becomes jealous and possessive over them. That is how He felt about the Old Testament people of faith like Abraham. He loved them. That is how He feels about us Christians today. His kingdom is reserved for those He loves. Not the great unwashed and unsaved masses who have never known Him. 4 minutes ago, Wingnut said: Hi Samie There are 2.2 billion Christians. The rest do not know the God of the Bible - that specific God. Your problem is Scriptures say everyone was given knowledge about God. Therefore, everyone knows Him. Here again is that part of Scriptures you seemed to have wanted not to exist: KJV Romans 1:18-25 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Did you notice that these unrighteous throng knew God but refused to serve Him? Therefore, they did not overcome the evil of refusing to serve God. They are not overcomers. Their names will be blotted out from the BOL. And you will have no one in your 8M to rise and "Hear the word of the Lord". 2 hours ago, Wingnut said: And in the 8M there will come a time when the great unwashed will rise to "Hear the word of the Lord". Then He will set His affection on them, just as He has on us today who were born out of season, as His firstfruits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 13 minutes ago, Samie said: Your problem is Scriptures say everyone was given knowledge about God. Therefore, everyone knows Him. Here again is that part of Scriptures you seemed to have wanted not to exist: KJV Romans 1:18-25 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. Paul wrote that to prove Jews and Gentiles know they are sinners. Nowhere does Paul claim that they have salvation knowledge, only sin knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 8 minutes ago, Samie said: Did you notice that these unrighteous throng knew God but refused to serve Him? Therefore, they did not overcome the evil of refusing to serve God. They are not overcomers. Their names will be blotted out from the BOL. And you will have no one in your 8M to rise and "Hear the word of the Lord". Here is a different classification: lovers of God and vice versa // and the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 2 minutes ago, Wingnut said: Paul wrote that to prove Jews and Gentiles know they are sinners. Nowhere does Paul claim that they have salvation knowledge, only sin knowledge. Your contention is that there are people who don't have the knowledge about God. I just showed you the Scriptures that disprove your contention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 2 minutes ago, Wingnut said: Here is a different classification: lovers of God and vice versa // and the rest. "and the rest" are non-overcomers. They did not overcome the evil of not loving God. They will be blotted out from the BOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 4 minutes ago, Samie said: Your contention is that there are people who don't have the knowledge about God. I just showed you the Scriptures that disprove your contention. Look at Paul's logic. He says that creation is evidence of a Creator. But they reject this "knowledge/proof of God" as do evolutionists today. This is not salvation knowledge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 6 minutes ago, Wingnut said: Paul wrote that to prove Jews and Gentiles know they are sinners. Nowhere does Paul claim that they have salvation knowledge, only sin knowledge. You missed the mark again, brother: NKJ Romans 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 2 minutes ago, Samie said: You missed the mark again, brother: NKJ Romans 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. They know God like most today know God - not enough for salvation. After Darwin, even less. Did you read my long post on the whole logic of Romans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnattmbtc Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 Quote God calls or woos those He chooses. They become His. He becomes jealous and possessive over them. That is how He felt about the Old Testament people of faith like Abraham. He loved them. That is how He feels about us Christians today. His kingdom is reserved for those He loves. Not the great unwashed and unsaved masses who have never known Him. Another quote from the Spirit of Prophecy Quote "No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me." None will ever come to Christ, save those who respond to the drawing of the Father's love. But God is drawing all hearts unto Him, and only those who resist His drawing will refuse to come to Christ. (DA 387) Go to go now. Will comment later. Quote Christ exalted the character of God, attributing to him the praise, and giving to him the credit, of the whole purpose of his own mission on earth,--to set men right through the revelation of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 4 minutes ago, Wingnut said: Look at Paul's logic. He says that creation is evidence of a Creator. But they reject this "knowledge/proof of God" as do evolutionists today. This is not salvation knowledge. Knowing God is not salvation knowledge? Another miss again, brother: ESV John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 If so many know God, how come babies come as a tabula rasa? Where is this knowledge of God you claim Paul says we have? Where does it reside? I say even the youngest kid soon gets the hang of guilt. Gilt/sin knowledge is what Paul is speaking of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 9 minutes ago, Samie said: You missed the mark again, brother: NKJ Romans 1:21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Explain what "they knew of God". Hint: Folks know as much about God today as back then. Zero salvation knowledge. The religious table proves it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 1 minute ago, Wingnut said: If so many know God, how come babies come as a tabula rasa? Where is this knowledge of God you claim Paul says we have? Where does it reside? I say even the youngest kid soon gets the hang of guilt. Gilt/sin knowledge is what Paul is speaking of. You can say what you want Scriptures to have said but did not. Scriptures are clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samie Posted October 30, 2015 Author Share Posted October 30, 2015 Just now, Wingnut said: Explain what "they knew of God". Hint: Folks know as much about God today as back then. Zero salvation knowledge. The religious table proves it. Scriptures say "they knew God". I simply believe it. As to what they knew of God, you have to ask them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wingnut Posted October 30, 2015 Share Posted October 30, 2015 5 minutes ago, pnattmbtc said: "No man can come to Me, except the Father which hath sent Me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto Me." None will ever come to Christ, save those who respond to the drawing of the Father's love. But God is drawing all hearts unto Him, and only those who resist His drawing will refuse to come to Christ. (DA 387) Hi pnattmbtc She hit it on the bullseye. God has to draw us - the default is ignorance and hatred of God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.