Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship?

[Reddogs]

It seems our worship services have began to include rock and roll music, drumming, and dancing in many of our churches to say nothing of the clapping, applause. You go on Sabbath Morning, and the drums are on the pulpit along with electrified instruments of every kind and then Stadium or theater sound systems to amplify them further. My wife and I had to leave one church as the speakers were bigger than my car and hung right above us and you can imagine how loud they had them. We went to the Spanish churches thinking they would be more conservative, but they are building their churches with the same seating and huge booming speakers that cant be for the preaching of the word, but certainly to wake the dead in my opinion. Then the unseemly and provocative dancing, we just came from a Camporee where the young people were "shaking" and "swinging" parts of their bodies best left unsaid and pumping and cheering on the others to join in during Sabbath and vespers. Needless to say our club didn't budge, and our kids stayed reverent, and I couldn't sing a word I was so stunned at the behavior from the pulpit/stage. Have we so lost our way that anything is permissible during worship, is there any reverence left in our churches or are we bringing the next generation to Led Zep and Grateful Dead concerts in our worship service.

Whats happened to Christian principles and worship, to say nothing of the warnings from SOP...

A Bedlam of Noise Which Confuses the Senses. --The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit never reveals itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit’s working.
No encouragement should be given to this kind of worship. The same kind of influence came in after the passing of the time in 1844. The same kind of representations were made. Men became excited, and were worked by a power thought to be the power of God. --Letter 132, 1900, to S. N. Haskell. (Published in Selected Messages, Book 2, pp. 36, 37.)

Music Acceptable if "Properly Conducted," Made Satan’s Snare. --The Holy Spirit has nothing to do with such a confusion of noise and multitude of sounds as passed before me last January. Satan works amid the din and confusion of such music, which, properly conducted, would be a praise and glory to God. He makes its effect like the poison sting of the serpent.

Those things which have been in the past will be in the future. Satan will make music a snare by the way in which it is conducted. God calls upon His people, who have the light before them in the Word and in the Testimonies, to read and consider, and to take heed. Clear and definite instruction has been given in order that all may understand. But the itching desire to originate something new results in strange doctrines, and largely destroys the influence of those who would be a power for good if they held firm the beginning of their confidence in the truth the Lord had given them. --Letter 132, 1900 to S. N. Haskell. (Published in Selected Messages, Book 2, pp. 37, 38.) (Emphasis Supplied)

These [in Indiana] were carried away by a spiritualistic delusion. --Evangelism, p. 595.

 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Stephen Haskell was sent to the Muncie, Indiana, camp meeting of 1900 to file a report on the music.  He wrote:  “We have a big drum, two tambourines, a big bass fiddle, two small fiddles, a flute and two cornets, and an organ and a few voices. They have Garden of Spices as the song book and play dance tunes to sacred words.” (Ella Robinson, S. N. Haskell Man of Action, p. 168.)

If you look at the Garden of Spices songbook, it has such dastardly hymns as "He Leadeth Me," "Jesus Lover of My Soul," "Holy, Holy, Holy," and "Onward, Christian Soldiers."  https://archive.org/stream/gardenofspicesch00nels#page/32/mode/2up

I personally enjoy loud booming pipe organ music in church... just can't beat "For All the Saints" or Handel's "Messiah" on the WWU College Church organ with Dr. Melvin West doing his magic!!!

[whbae]

it certainly has changed!  The manner of keeping the Sabbath has been changed.  The behavior of the people in  the church during the worship hour has been changed.  There is not reverence in the church any more.  Mrs. White wrote that as we enter the sanctuary we should sit quietly and meditate about out savior.  People  sit in the sanctuary look around who are here and get up shake hands in middle of the worship service as though this is the part of worship service.  I do not think it will get better any time soon as the Satan works hard.

[GayatfootofCross]

36 minutes ago, whbae said:

  There is not reverence in the church any more.  Mrs. White wrote that as we enter the sanctuary we should sit quietly and meditate about out savior.  People  sit in the sanctuary look around who are here and get up shake hands in middle of the worship service as though this is the part of worship service.  I do not think it will get better any time soon as the Satan works hard.

 This is directed for all into this thread.

Not you, Whbae. You bring up a very good point represented in many fellow Christians.

 here is a thought infused with  ..uhhh ... irony and thoughts from the other side.

......................................................................................

Is that why nobody seems to care when a visitor walks in? All contemplating  the Saviour? I think we need a sign at the entrance. It will help the visitors to understand why no friendly faces and no one reaching out to get to know people.

Jesus managed to contemplate His Father and go out of His way to welcome Sinners at the same time.

let's reflect that!

E.G.W represents her culture very well.

Jesus reflects the Eternal  perfectly.

Praise HIM!

.........................................................

ok carry on

 

[Tom Wetmore]

To one person, making a joyful noise unto the Lord and shouting to the Lord seems but a bedlam of noise to those whose hearts are out of tune with what is really happening. Recall the out of tune perception of some at Pentecost...

it is a bit hard to know exactly what cacophony of sounds were actually present to result in it being described as a bedlam of noise.  Just like we cannot know exactly what the music to which the Psalms were set sounded like.  We tend to ascribe our own tastes on such things and make some broad assumptions for our own frame of reference.  The description sounded to me like a situation where all kinds things were happening at once and poorly performed without much apparent musical ability. Musical instruments essentially used as noise makers.

And, Reddog, it it has hardly become like a Led Zep (sic) or Grateful Dead concert in any sense.  

Hope you can find a quiet little church to suit your tastes...  In the meantime, consider that many do find a very meaningful blessing from contemporary music.  

[Reddogs]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2015‎ ‎11‎:‎26‎:‎15‎, rudywoofs said:

Stephen Haskell was sent to the Muncie, Indiana, camp meeting of 1900 to file a report on the music.  He wrote:  “We have a big drum, two tambourines, a big bass fiddle, two small fiddles, a flute and two cornets, and an organ and a few voices. They have Garden of Spices as the song book and play dance tunes to sacred words.” (Ella Robinson, S. N. Haskell Man of Action, p. 168.)

If you look at the Garden of Spices songbook, it has such dastardly hymns as "He Leadeth Me," "Jesus Lover of My Soul," "Holy, Holy, Holy," and "Onward, Christian Soldiers."  https://archive.org/stream/gardenofspicesch00nels#page/32/mode/2up

I personally enjoy loud booming pipe organ music in church... just can't beat "For All the Saints" or Handel's "Messiah" on the WWU College Church organ with Dr. Melvin West doing his magic!!!

I think you missed the point, you can sing a song to give glory to God or you can do it for self or to excite and stir the carnal nature. Think Andraé Crouch with all the kids hips aswaying and bumping and grinding, that's what we saw up on the stage.......

[Reddogs]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2015‎ ‎12‎:‎57‎:‎57‎, whbae said:

it certainly has changed!  The manner of keeping the Sabbath has been changed.  The behavior of the people in  the church during the worship hour has been changed.  There is not reverence in the church any more.  Mrs. White wrote that as we enter the sanctuary we should sit quietly and meditate about out savior.  People  sit in the sanctuary look around who are here and get up shake hands in middle of the worship service as though this is the part of worship service.  I do not think it will get better any time soon as the Satan works hard.

Reverence in most of our churches now is seen as a drag, a turn off, boring, to be avoided at every point. But we have been warned..

We have abundant reason to maintain a fervent, devoted spirit in the worship of God. We have reason even to be more thoughtful and reverential in our worship than had the Jews. But an enemy has been at work to destroy our faith in the sacredness of Christian worship. 5T page 496.

[Reddogs]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2015‎ ‎2‎:‎36‎:‎21‎, Tom Wetmore said:

To one person, making a joyful noise unto the Lord and shouting to the Lord seems but a bedlam of noise to those whose hearts are out of tune with what is really happening. Recall the out of tune perception of some at Pentecost...

it is a bit hard to know exactly what cacophony of sounds were actually present to result in it being described as a bedlam of noise.  Just like we cannot know exactly what the music to which the Psalms were set sounded like.  We tend to ascribe our own tastes on such things and make some broad assumptions for our own frame of reference.  The description sounded to me like a situation where all kinds things were happening at once and poorly performed without much apparent musical ability. Musical instruments essentially used as noise makers.

And, Reddog, it it has hardly become like a Led Zep (sic) or Grateful Dead concert in any sense.  

Hope you can find a quiet little church to suit your tastes...  In the meantime, consider that many do find a very meaningful blessing from contemporary music.  

When the women begin to shake and bump to the rhyme up on the pulpit, then it does become a Shaka Khan concert... 

[Reddogs]

Worship, in many Adventist churches has become more about pleasing man than God, loosing the prime focus of worship. In their attempt to attract and retain their unconverted youth and the “unchurched,” they claim to want to attract, some in church leadership have picked up these strange music to use in their worship.

Ellen White prophesied that shortly before the coming of Christ, leaders would bring worldly patterns for the worship services. She wrote: “The things you have described as taking place in Indiana, the Lord has shown me would take place just before the close of probation. Every uncouth thing will be demonstrated. There will be shouting, with drums, music, and dancing. The senses of rational beings will become so confused that they cannot be trusted to make right decisions. And this is called the moving of the Holy Spirit” (Selected Messages, bk. 2, p. 36,

[Reddogs]

22 minutes ago, Reddogs said:

When the women begin to shake and bump to the rhyme up on the pulpit, then it does become a Shaka Khan concert... 

My bad........"Chaka Khan "

[Tom Wetmore]

19 hours ago, Reddogs said:

I think you missed the point, you can sing a song to give glory to God or you can do it for self or to excite and stir the carnal nature. Think Andraé Crouch with all the kids hips aswaying and bumping and grinding, that's what we saw up on the stage.......

Or maybe it was you that missed the point, or to be more precise, misinterpreted and misrepresented the point of the  music in question.  Let's unpack what you just said.  The first assumptive charge that you can sing a song to give glory to God or you can do it for self - has nothing to do with genre of music. A hymn singer can just as easily sing for self as you seem to ascribe to the ones you were observing singing a style of music that you apparently neither understood nor liked.  And with all sincerity, a person can sing a modern song with modern instrumental accompaniment  making a loud and joyful noise to the Lord all with the purpose and  pure motive  to give Glory to God.  Ones motives in performing any genre of music are not readily apparent.  The only person's motive accessibly to you as the nonparticipating observer is yours and yours alone. Think about what your frame of mind was at that moment in time.  Was it seeking to praise or honor God or to bring glory to God? Or was it to be a critical spectator, looking to find fault, looking at others with a spirit of murmuring and complaining?  Who was in control of your thoughts?

Whose carnal nature on the occasion in question was excited and stirred? Were the kids' movements on the stage really crudely sexual as you described it?  Really? Do you honestly think they had any sexual motive, excitation or intent in there minds?  Or were your adult perceptions and thoughts of the movements of those kids what was crudely sexualized?  Seems more than a little creepy and perverted that you would see them that way, don't you think?  Whose carnal nature exactly was excited that such ideas so easily came to mind?  

 

[Reddogs]

2 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Or maybe it was you that missed the point, or to be more precise, misinterpreted and misrepresented the point of the  music in question.  Let's unpack what you just said.  The first assumptive charge that you can sing a song to give glory to God or you can do it for self - has nothing to do with genre of music. A hymn singer can just as easily sing for self as you seem to ascribe to the ones you were observing singing a style of music that you apparently neither understood nor liked.  And with all sincerity, a person can sing a modern song with modern instrumental accompaniment  making a loud and joyful noise to the Lord all with the purpose and  pure motive  to give Glory to God.  Ones motives in performing any genre of music are not readily apparent.  The only person's motive accessibly to you as the nonparticipating observer is yours and yours alone. Think about what your frame of mind was at that moment in time.  Was it seeking to praise or honor God or to bring glory to God? Or was it to be a critical spectator, looking to find fault, looking at others with a spirit of murmuring and complaining?  Who was in control of your thoughts?

Whose carnal nature on the occasion in question was excited and stirred? Were the kids' movements on the stage really crudely sexual as you described it?  Really? Do you honestly think they had any sexual motive, excitation or intent in there minds?  Or were your adult perceptions and thoughts of the movements of those kids what was crudely sexualized?  Seems more than a little creepy and perverted that you would see them that way, don't you think?  Whose carnal nature exactly was excited that such ideas so easily came to mind?  

 

Yes, I agree, any song can be taken and done rather than for the glory of God, for self. But some songs through the words or music of the beat lend themselves to even worse, and those are being brought in. There was a difference in the kids, some came up to give wonderful spiritual and uplifting messages, but others just wanted to do their own thing with no restraint especially in the singing. Our kids saw it and so did our counselors as we discussed it later, so don't try to accuse and pin it on my perception,  and we had to leave that service and have our own worship service.

When I told one of the ladies on the pulpit at my church about the swaying of the hips, she basically said she would do what she felt like, and at the Camporee the kids were pumped up to level of excitement by those up on the pulpit and the music that can only be compared to a Rolling Stone or Black Sabbath concert Sabbath morning and for vespers. But then maybe that is how you think worship should be...do you

[Aliensanctuary]

Although there is no real Temple Sanctuary at this time where people can come into the physical presence of the LORD, most religions make some sort of attempt to represent it in their church buildings. Now, Jesus had to throw out the merchants who were creating marketplace bedlam in the Temple courts, and perhaps if he walked into one of the church services described above, he might knock over drum sets and guitar amps and stare down the dancers until everything was so quiet you could hear a pin drop, or perhaps not.

We should realize that church services were created by men who may or may not FEAR the LORD, but the real Sanctuary points us to the real Kingdom. There might be some mind-blowing music to dance by, and there might not, in the Kingdom of the Stars. Today, maybe some feel closer to the LORD in a party atmosphere while others prefer quiet reverence in their worship. If a person is repulsed by the music and dancing in church, they should find other like-minded individuals and join them for worship in small groups in their homes or in nature.

Quote

I personally enjoy loud booming pipe organ music in church... on the WWU College Church organ...

Not to mention the Darth Vader Memorial Organ at the PUC mega-church. (The organ pipe arrangement in the front of the church resembles the head of Darth Vader.) The powerful pipe organ music does tend to catch one's attention. If only all of the sick and starving children and people of the world could listen to the majestic chords of a church pipe organ, then they would feel better.

[Tom Wetmore]

Which goes to show you that you really can't satisfy everyone when it comes to subjective matters of taste...  

I am convinced that some people simply live to judge others experience, to criticize, find fault, no matter what the issue, large or small, important or not.

[GayatfootofCross]

1 hour ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Which goes to show you that you really can't satisfy everyone when it comes to subjective matters of taste...  

I am convinced that some people simply live to judge others experience, to criticize, find fault, no matter what the issue, large or small, important or not.

Very Very true!

in Secular circles it pumps us up and the mind is a washed with feelings of superiority (even for a small moment or longer)

in Religious circles it gives a sense of being closer to God or status of arriving Sainthood (superiority again)

It is learned in too many Christian circles and feeds itself upon our natural sinful hearts.

We have SDA religious sermons based on it. On TV even. Whole Ministries thriving on it.

It may feel good to dictate what is right and holy according to our tastes and culture and how we think read into peoples hearts..but JESUS is not lifted up in the process.

I could just cry.

The Devil sold me a bunch of bads..and told me " this is what it is to be a good little christian "

Some still buy into it.

Very repugnant..looking back!

 

 

[JoeMo]

I agree with AS' post.  If you dont like the (insert your own dislike - music, semons, culture, pastor, head elder, carpet color, etc.) in the church you're attending, find a church you like, or support the church your in regardless of your preferences.  I guarantee that you will never find a church where you agree with 100% of what is going on; especially if you are looking for things that don't fit your personal "model" of a true believer or organization.

I personally see nothing wrong with getting emotionally involved in worship.  I like contemporary Christian music a lot.  It makes me feel closer to God.  If I wast to raise my hands, jump up and down and spin around, and "shake like I've been changed" (see Mercy Me YouTube video if you're unfamiliar with that expression), I will.  I think we are supposed to get excited during worship.  Look at the scenes of heavenly worship in Revelation.  To me, it more closely resembles a Spirit-filled charismatic service than the usual quiet somber quiet one sees in a traditional caucasian SDA service.

[Tom Wetmore]

I am and  for 25+ years have been a member of a very traditional large (1500+) Adventist Church.  The music and worship format some might even describe as "high church", or a significant amount of classical religious music or music in that style.  The platform is dominated by an impressive pipe organ, a high quality concert grand piano and a full choir loft, all of which are used regularly and on special occasions an orchestra, string or brass ensemble.  Congregational singing is traditional hymns.  Special music  is fairly traditional and is high quality and well performed, often by professional musicians.  The program format  is fairly traditional.  The regular seating seats roughly half the membership and each Sabbath is usually full.

I also attend regularly another nontraditional Adventist Church that is a little over half the size (800). It doubled in size under the leadership of the now retired senior pastor that introduced the current worship format. It still leads the conference in baptisms.  It has very contemporary Christian music with a lengthy praise service  that precedes the sermon.  It has the full modern music instrumentation/amplification equipment.  They also have praise/worship dancers that choreograph their fluid movements, banners and streamers with the music. (Nothing remotely sexual about it.) The program format is informal. The have a consistent "come as you are, just come" philosophy.  The atmosphere is vibrant and very friendly.  I often refer to it as "happy church". The congregation and attendees are very diverse on all demographic categories.  A unique part of this church is like most Adventist churches, about half of the membership attends week to week, but the actually attendance is always at least equal to the full membership number.  That means that half who attend are not even members.  Yes, there are the typical Adventists "tourists" checking out this unique Adventist church, but a significant percentage of the regular attendees are not Adventists.

I love both churches.  I am blessed by each.  The music of the contemporary church touches my soul more deeply and more frequently than the traditional hymns and classical religious music of the first church where I am a member.  I like both styles of music.   On a good week when I attend both services I am most happy.  I have a well rounded and richly blessed Sabbath worship experience.  

[Jeannieb43]

Unfortunately, most young people these days are accustomed to seeing music performed on TV, where the singer holds a hand mic close to his/her mouth, and the camera zooms in on his/her face; there are drums and guitars in the background, keeping up a steady rhythmic beat accompaniment.   So when they come into church they are unprepared to listen actively to music without a "beat" and to watch/listen to music with calming, quiet lyrics.  So it begins to look like the TV studio, in our churches these days.  I don't blame the pastors; they're only trying to "meet people where they are" in terms of musical sophistication.

 

I only appreciate a church which has a "contemporary" service PLUS a "traditional" service.   For some of us older folk, especially those of us who are classically trained musicians, the musical portion of the service needs to be something which evokes spirituality, and during which we can communicate silently with our God.     There's no single solution to this problem.   But if I were raising children today I would insist that they be trained in classical music, both instrumental and vocal, so they can contribute to a traditional church service as they grow up.  They'll find a much longer-lasting satisfaction in that type of music, IMHO.

[Aliensanctuary]

Here's a rendition of an old hymn by a Japanese boy and girl onstage. They do catch one's attention.

https://www.facebook.com/merchi.ratunuman/videos/791386107654224/?fref=nf

[Reddogs]

21 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Which goes to show you that you really can't satisfy everyone when it comes to subjective matters of taste...  

I am convinced that some people simply live to judge others experience, to criticize, find fault, no matter what the issue, large or small, important or not.

I think you may be right.....

"Whose carnal nature on the occasion in question was excited and stirred? Were the kids' movements on the stage really crudely sexual as you described it?  Really? Do you honestly think they had any sexual motive, excitation or intent in there minds?  Or were your adult perceptions and thoughts of the movements of those kids what was crudely sexualized?  Seems more than a little creepy and perverted that you would see them that way, don't you think?  Whose carnal nature exactly was excited that such ideas so easily came to mind?   "

[Reddogs]

14 hours ago, Jeannieb43 said:

Unfortunately, most young people these days are accustomed to seeing music performed on TV, where the singer holds a hand mic close to his/her mouth, and the camera zooms in on his/her face; there are drums and guitars in the background, keeping up a steady rhythmic beat accompaniment.   So when they come into church they are unprepared to listen actively to music without a "beat" and to watch/listen to music with calming, quiet lyrics.  So it begins to look like the TV studio, in our churches these days.  I don't blame the pastors; they're only trying to "meet people where they are" in terms of musical sophistication.

 

I only appreciate a church which has a "contemporary" service PLUS a "traditional" service.   For some of us older folk, especially those of us who are classically trained musicians, the musical portion of the service needs to be something which evokes spirituality, and during which we can communicate silently with our God.     There's no single solution to this problem.   But if I were raising children today I would insist that they be trained in classical music, both instrumental and vocal, so they can contribute to a traditional church service as they grow up.  They'll find a much longer-lasting satisfaction in that type of music, IMHO.

But why are the leaders and pastors on the pulpit encouraging and bringing the "theater/rock stadium" experience right into our churches. Do they think that is how they will keep the young, they are sadly mistaken...

[Reddogs]

16 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

I am and  for 25+ years have been a member of a very traditional large (1500+) Adventist Church.  The music and worship format some might even describe as "high church", or a significant amount of classical religious music or music in that style.  The platform is dominated by an impressive pipe organ, a high quality concert grand piano and a full choir loft, all of which are used regularly and on special occasions an orchestra, string or brass ensemble.  Congregational singing is traditional hymns.  Special music  is fairly traditional and is high quality and well performed, often by professional musicians.  The program format  is fairly traditional.  The regular seating seats roughly half the membership and each Sabbath is usually full.

I also attend regularly another nontraditional Adventist Church that is a little over half the size (800). It doubled in size under the leadership of the now retired senior pastor that introduced the current worship format. It still leads the conference in baptisms.  It has very contemporary Christian music with a lengthy praise service  that precedes the sermon.  It has the full modern music instrumentation/amplification equipment.  They also have praise/worship dancers that choreograph their fluid movements, banners and streamers with the music. (Nothing remotely sexual about it.) The program format is informal. The have a consistent "come as you are, just come" philosophy.  The atmosphere is vibrant and very friendly.  I often refer to it as "happy church". The congregation and attendees are very diverse on all demographic categories.  A unique part of this church is like most Adventist churches, about half of the membership attends week to week, but the actually attendance is always at least equal to the full membership number.  That means that half who attend are not even members.  Yes, there are the typical Adventists "tourists" checking out this unique Adventist church, but a significant percentage of the regular attendees are not Adventists.

I love both churches.  I am blessed by each.  The music of the contemporary church touches my soul more deeply and more frequently than the traditional hymns and classical religious music of the first church where I am a member.  I like both styles of music.   On a good week when I attend both services I am most happy.  I have a well rounded and richly blessed Sabbath worship experience.  

Yes you can go that route, but the road to hell is paved with what some think is good intentions, I think the Crystal Cathedral was over 20,000 before the wheels came off.

[Reddogs]

17 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I agree with AS' post.  If you dont like the (insert your own dislike - music, semons, culture, pastor, head elder, carpet color, etc.) in the church you're attending, find a church you like, or support the church your in regardless of your preferences.  I guarantee that you will never find a church where you agree with 100% of what is going on; especially if you are looking for things that don't fit your personal "model" of a true believer or organization.

I personally see nothing wrong with getting emotionally involved in worship.  I like contemporary Christian music a lot.  It makes me feel closer to God.  If I wast to raise my hands, jump up and down and spin around, and "shake like I've been changed" (see Mercy Me YouTube video if you're unfamiliar with that expression), I will.  I think we are supposed to get excited during worship.  Look at the scenes of heavenly worship in Revelation.  To me, it more closely resembles a Spirit-filled charismatic service than the usual quiet somber quiet one sees in a traditional caucasian SDA service.

The Pentecostalist have such a service and are one of the biggest religions in the world, do you think the Gospel and Gods truth is being spread by them. Hmmmm... 

[Reddogs]

On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2015‎ ‎4‎:‎47‎:‎17‎, Aliensanctuary said:

Although there is no real Temple Sanctuary at this time where people can come into the physical presence of the LORD, most religions make some sort of attempt to represent it in their church buildings. Now, Jesus had to throw out the merchants who were creating marketplace bedlam in the Temple courts, and perhaps if he walked into one of the church services described above, he might knock over drum sets and guitar amps and stare down the dancers until everything was so quiet you could hear a pin drop, or perhaps not.

We should realize that church services were created by men who may or may not FEAR the LORD, but the real Sanctuary points us to the real Kingdom. There might be some mind-blowing music to dance by, and there might not, in the Kingdom of the Stars. Today, maybe some feel closer to the LORD in a party atmosphere while others prefer quiet reverence in their worship. If a person is repulsed by the music and dancing in church, they should find other like-minded individuals and join them for worship in small groups in their homes or in nature.

Not to mention the Darth Vader Memorial Organ at the PUC mega-church. (The organ pipe arrangement in the front of the church resembles the head of Darth Vader.) The powerful pipe organ music does tend to catch one's attention. If only all of the sick and starving children and people of the world could listen to the majestic chords of a church pipe organ, then they would feel better.

SOP gave us the warning....""Music, when not abused, is a great blessing; but when put to a wrong use, it is a terrible curse. It excites, but does not impart that strength and courage which the Christian can find only at the throne of grace while humbly making known his wants and with strong cries and tears pleading for heavenly strength to be fortified against the powerful temptations of the evil one. Satan is leading the young captive. Oh, what can I say to lead them to break his power of infatuation! He is a skillful charmer, luring them on to perdition. --Testimonies, Vol. 1, pp. 496-497.

Music has occupied the hours which should have been devoted to prayer. Music is the idol which many professed Sabbath keeping Christians worship. Satan has no objection to music if he can make that a channel through which to gain access to the minds of the youth.

Anything will suit his purpose that will divert the mind from God and engage the time which should be devoted to His service. He works through the means which will exert the strongest influence to hold the largest numbers in a pleasing infatuation, while they are paralyzed by his power. When turned to good account, music is a blessing; but it is often made one of Satan's most attractive agencies to ensnare souls. When abused, it leads the unconsecrated to pride, vanity, and folly. When allowed to take the place of devotion and prayer, it is a terrible curse.

Young persons assemble to sing, and, although professed Christians, frequently dishonor God and their faith by their frivolous conversation and their choice of music. Sacred music is not congenial to their taste. I was directed to the plain teachings of God's word, which have been passed by unnoticed. In the judgment all these words of inspiration will condemn those who have not heeded them. --Testimonies, Vol. 1, pp. 585-586.

"Rightly employed, . . . [music] is a precious gift of God, designed to uplift the thoughts to high and noble themes, to inspire and elevate the souls.

It is one of the most effective means of impressing the heart with spiritual truth...

As a part of religious service, singing is as much an act of worship as is prayer. Indeed, many a song is prayer. --Education, pp. 167, 168.

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[Tom Wetmore]

54 minutes ago, Reddogs said:

Yes you can go that route, but the road to hell is paved with what some think is good intentions, I think the Crystal Cathedral was over 20,000 before the wheels came off.

Missing the point...