Why have we allowed strange music and noise and dancing in our worship?

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, make a joyful noise unto the Lord!

[LifeHiscost]

On 11/10/2015, 11:47:29, Jeannieb43 said:

Unfortunately, most young people these days are accustomed to seeing music performed on TV, where the singer holds a hand mic close to his/her mouth, and the camera zooms in on his/her face; there are drums and guitars in the background, keeping up a steady rhythmic beat accompaniment.   So when they come into church they are unprepared to listen actively to music without a "beat" and to watch/listen to music with calming, quiet lyrics.  So it begins to look like the TV studio, in our churches these days.  I don't blame the pastors; they're only trying to "meet people where they are" in terms of musical sophistication.

 

I only appreciate a church which has a "contemporary" service PLUS a "traditional" service.   For some of us older folk, especially those of us who are classically trained musicians, the musical portion of the service needs to be something which evokes spirituality, and during which we can communicate silently with our God.     There's no single solution to this problem.   But if I were raising children today I would insist that they be trained in classical music, both instrumental and vocal, so they can contribute to a traditional church service as they grow up.  They'll find a much longer-lasting satisfaction in that type of music, IMHO.

A solution to the reality, if there is one, is a continuous reading of the Word and relying on the promises, most especially those that help us see the difference between ourselves and a holy God. I spent probably fifteen years in Adventist effort striving to serve the only God of the created universe and still didn't understand this principle.

13 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. ² And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. ³ And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,^[a] but have not love, it profits me nothing.

⁴ Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; ⁵ does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; ⁶ does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; ⁷ bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

⁸ Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. ⁹ For we know in part and we prophesy in part. ¹⁰ But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

¹¹ When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. ¹² For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

¹³ And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.....1 Corinthians 13 emphasis mine  LHC

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Gerr]

Personally, I prefer services that do not assault my hearing.  Three years ago, we attended one of the DC churches. The volume of the amplification was so intense I had to cover my ears.

[Stan]

The lower the quality, the louder they make it to compensate. I often reflect on the style Jesus may have used for the Sermon on the Mount..

[debbym]

it is my opinion that sensual music and sensually oriented sermons and programs are described as the offerings or worship of Moab.  usually it is just a segment, one song to two... not the whole service.  and yes sometimes it can be very loud.  Indeed the message may be sent home with emotional impact.

It is the power of the Holy Spirit attending a service that makes it powerful and viable to reach the heart.  it is not the music video style performance with swinging hips and shimmering clothes and stylized make-up.  And yes it does come into SDA church services, and when it happens it unfolds quickly,  happens, hits you like a brick, and you didn't allow it as a church member it is not your decision to have it happen.  So the title of this thread is tricky.

the conference president didn't allow it and choose it, and usually it is due to the program design of one or two people out of hundreds maybe thousands of people... who were totally sincere and moved by the song or style... and honestly just wish to bless the church and sometimes to reach the unchurched...

all things are pure to the pure..

i am not knocked out of the water when it happens....  i consider the sincerity of those  pulling the church service together, and make the most out of the presentations... which i often do for the sermon and everything else that happens in the church experience.  i can become so distracted by how things are being done as to miss the blessing, or i can be so full from breakfast that i start dozing and can't stay awake during a droning sermon and miss the blessing... and when the service is so lively i cant sleep it can be so dramatic and loud and wild that i miss the intended blessing.

I may speak up to someone but in the past it has been after the drummers have left our group and are not doing the presentations anymore.  i found when you know these persons closely often they were people who were emotionally venting during the service seeking to find their emotional balance and the heightened drama in the service was really expressing their feelings.  If anyone came down on them they would likely not be able to even keep coming to church.  It would be like judging and condemning them and denying them honest expression.  Indeed our services are not therapy sessions in this way....  i think when people are wounded they sometimes live just finding their feelings expressed in everything... i lived way.. and i wound out of this by prayer, and bible memorizing,  meditation, and study and more prayer, and a spiritual community that loved me and did not judge me or condemn me, and even included me as i was.  Our group,  i believe follows this loving way towards others.

musical artists are often speaking for the multitudes, and some really try to be the poet and send a thought provoking message home to bring change and help people through their pain, or bring connection for those who feel fragile and disconnected like teenagers...   and kids and others like them can be profoundly moved by music, and the stoics and very unemotional people can be profoundly touched by music also... it can be very powerful.  and well chosen music is often the punch of the whole service to send a message home to the heart.  so...i do understand when people choose music that emotionally speaks to them... and some people cant get that message because they are so distracted by the trappings that come with the words...

consider these words of a music listener to this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sp7PS_UN8Lo

couldn't stop listening to this song every time my parents fought, which was almost every night. Now they're getting divorced and this song has helped me through a lot of the process. I had it on loop the day my parents told us they were divorcing, and the day that my grandma passed. Long story short, just listening to PTX has given me a sense of comfort, and shown me that I can get through this. I know they probably won't see this, but, Thank you SO much for everything!!!

Reply · 451 

[JoeMo]

very insightful post, deb.  As a lifelong musician and praise leader, I can relate.  I'm a big fan of contemporary music; including putting a contemporary twist on old hymns.

The video you linked to is a fine example of a deeply spiritual "contemporary" song that moves the heart and blesses the soul.  It made me cry; but hey - as I get older I cry more easily.

This is another song that is currently blessing me tremendously "I Touched the Sky My Knees Hit the Ground"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h38L1LPRzU

[lazarus]

2 hours ago, Stan said:

The lower the quality, the louder they make it to compensate. I often reflect on the style Jesus may have used for the Sermon on the Mount..

Conversely, in some churches it is believed that low volume, low energy, low interest is quality. It is clearly not. God likes loud too!! Sometimes there's a temptation to make our preferences God's preferences.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

even the old hymns can sometimes be inappropriate in church... Consider:

A preacher was winding up his temperance sermon with great fervor:

"If I had all the beer in the world, I'd take it and throw it into the river."

And the congregation cried, "Amen!"

"And if I had all the wine in the world, I'd take it and throw it in the river."

And the congregation cried, "Amen!"

"And if I had all the whiskey and demon rum in the world, I'd take it all and throw it in the river."

And the congregation cried, "Hallelujah!"

The preacher sat down.

The song leader stood up very tentatively and announced: "For our closing song, let us sing hymn #365, 'Shall We Gather at the River.'"

[debbym]

1 hour ago, rudywoofs said:

 

"And if I had all the whiskey and demon rum in the world, I'd take it all and throw it in the river."

And the congregation cried, "Hallelujah!"

The preacher sat down.

The song leader stood up very tentatively and announced: "For our closing song, let us sing hymn #365, 'Shall We Gather at the River.'"

rofl  gasp rofl

[phkrause]

I must've had the same Minister preaching that same sermon at my church a number of years ago!!

[LifeHiscost]

On 11/28/2015, 10:56:37, Gerry Cabalo said:

 

      150       Praise the LORD! 

      Praise God in his Temple! 
      Praise his strength in heaven! 
      2      Praise him for the mighty things he has done. 
      Praise his supreme greatness. 

      3      Praise him with trumpets. 
      Praise him with harps and lyres. 
      4      Praise him with drums and dancing. 
      Praise him with harps and flutes. 
      5      Praise him with cymbals. 
      Praise him with loud cymbals. 
      6      Praise the LORD, all living creatures! 

      Praise the LORD! 

American Bible Society. (1992). The Holy Bible: The Good news Translation (2nd ed., Ps 150:1–6). New York: American Bible Society.

When one is consistently reading the Word, asking God to enable him/her to pull out of the Word the direction which He wishes us to follow, He has promises He can be depended upon to keep, revealing where He wants us to end up.

26Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying, 27"Behold, I am the LORD, the God of all flesh; is anything too difficult for Me?".....Jeremiah 32

  The will of God will never lead you where the grace of God cannot keep you 

 

When I look at myself, I don't see how I can ever be saved. When I look at Jesus, I don't see how I could ever be lost. 

God is Love!  Jesus saves! 

[Gregory Matthews]

Strange music:

1)  What is strange to one person may not be strange to another.

2) I have lived in Asia and in Central America.  Music that is strange to one culture may not be strange to another culture.

3) I have family members who are former SDA, totally gave up on religion and are now on a spiritual journey but have not arrived at the end of the road.  If I can ask them to attend SDA services and they do so, I must attend services of their choice.

Last night I attended a Christmas concert with them by a metro-area mega church.  Out of respect for me, they supplied my wife and me with ear-plugs which we immediately placed in our ears. The music was loud.  I have never experienced in a SDA congregation that had drums and more what I experienced at that concert that night.  I strongly suspect that those who criticize SDA congregations for drums and loud music have never attended such and therefore do  not know that such SDA congregations really do not mimic what is happening outside the SDA Church.

4)  However, regardless of the loud music, the words to the hymns that were sung were traditional, conservative praise to God and the Christ who has provided salvation for all.  At the end of the service there was a 10 minute call  to accept Christ.  [NOTE:  Of  the 90 minute concert, about 45 minutes was devoted to preaching.]  That was to be expected as  this megachurch has a call after every service.

5)  It should be noted that during the call we were told that if a person did not feel that God was calling them to unite with this church, they would help  them to find a Christian church that was more appropriate to what they believed God was calling them to do.

5)  Something over a year ago, I attended with family a Sunday morning service at one of the congregations of this megachurch.  (Yes, they have several megachurch locations in  this metro area.)  The service was part of a 10-week series on the NT book of James.  I noted that the sermon generally followed the SDA Lesson Quarterly which was also on the book of James and the sermon that day generally followed the quarterly for the preceding week!  The announcement for the following weeks of preaching on James generally followed the coming lessons in the Quarterly.

6)  At the end of that service, the preacher, speaking to the several thousand in attendance, gave a call to accept Christ.  As I said, they do that after every service.  But, he added something extra.  During the 15 to 20 minute call,  he went into detail to tell that people that a call to accept Christ always included a call to action on the part of the individual both to change in life-style and to work to evangelize others.

 

[debbym]

 

22 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Strange music:

1)  What is strange to one person may not be strange to another.

2) I have lived in Asia and in Central America.  Music that is strange to one culture may not be strange to another culture.

5)  It should be noted that during the call we were told that if a person did not feel that God was calling them to unite with this church, they would help  them to find a Christian church that was more appropriate to what they believed God was calling them to do.

5)  Something over a year ago, I attended with family a Sunday morning service at one of the congregations of this megachurch.  (Yes, they have several megachurch locations in  this metro area.)  The service was part of a 10-week series on the NT book of James.  I noted that the sermon generally followed the SDA Lesson Quarterly which was also on the book of James and the sermon that day generally followed the quarterly for the preceding week!  The announcement for the following weeks of preaching on James generally followed the coming lessons in the Quarterly.

6)  At the end of that service, the preacher, speaking to the several thousand in attendance, gave a call to accept Christ.  As I said, they do that after every service.  But, he added something extra.  During the 15 to 20 minute call,  he went into detail to tell that people that a call to accept Christ always included a call to action on the part of the individual both to change in life-style and to work to evangelize others.

 

Praise God, when the disciples complained about others who were talking to others about HIm, Jesus told them forbid them not.

[Gregory Matthews]

Exactly.

People are not perfect.  What people do is not perfect.

There are people who recognize that we are falling short in accomplishing our mission.  They are trying.  Some of their efforts will fail and some will succeed.  In any case, God is in charge and God will lead.