What is the One Project and its true purpose.

[Reddogs]

Our retired pastor and many of our leaders in our church have told us about these group of pastors and others who are pushing this 'One Project' which seems aimed at the young people. And they are not saying good things about it and those who have come across it don't find much in it that is positive as it appears to be part of the 'Emerging Church' movement and connected to Spiritual Formation somehow. Has anyone come across it or have something on what its purpose is, as I can barely find anything on it.

Here is some links...
http://atoday.org/one-project-christ-centered-unity-unexplained-questions-criticism.html

http://thegreatcontroversy.info/the-one-project.html

[Gregory Matthews]

Reddogs:

Let me commend you for asking an honest question and for including the two references that you have included.  I understand your comment to be an honest question and an attempt on your part to be fair.

I will respond to your questions in a following post.

Let me give my qualifications to answer:

1) My wife and I attended the Gathering in San Diego.

2)  I am currently  a member of the congregation that has Japhet as the Sr. pastor.  While I am in the process of moving to California, for a bit less than two years I attended his weekly services.  So, I know what he preaches and the spiritual leadership that he has.

3) He is currently the Sr. pastor of the Boulder SDA Church in Colorado, Rocky Mountain Conference.

4) On the average, Japhet and I communicated, either by e-mail, or in person, two or more times a week.  Those conversations were about equally divided between discussions of The One Project and local congregational matters.  I have a very good understanding as to where Japhet is coming from as it relates to The  One Project.

5)  I have personally spoken to other leaders of The One Project as well as SDA administrators on Local, Union and General Conference level on issues related to The One Project.  Much of this is covered by confidentiality and therefore I am often unable to name names and/or cite very specific statements.

6) Simply put:  The goal of The One Project is to make Christ the center of belief and life practice of individual SDA members.  There is no other purpose.

7)  The Boulder congregation places its services on the Internet for all to view.  You may access them at:  https://new.livestream.com/bouldersdachurch

8) The password for the above is: SDA7sda

9)  If you want to see what TOP says about itself, visit their website:  www.the1projectorg

10) The leaders of TOP have written a book that tells of their founding of TOP and what it about.  For some reason, few critics seem to have read that book.  Going by memory, I think it is titled THE ONE.

11) The five major leaders of TOP are all SDA pastors.  As such they are different individuals.  Please distinguish between their individual spiritual leadership and TOP.

12) Japhet is probably the finest congregational administrator that I have ever experienced.  The weekly sermons in the Boulder congregation are planed out more than one-year ahead with scriptural passage, title and the person who will preach that Sabbath.  He typically preaches along with the other members of the pastoral staff who consist of two to three other people, along with a couple of congregational members.  Those who preach will be asked to preach on the Biblical passage for that day.

13)  Typically the Sabbath sermons come in a series.  This may be a set of Biblical chapters from either the OT or the NT, such  as lessons from the life of King David.  They may be a series on a theme such as from the life of Christ. They do include sermons on beliefs dear to SDA members.

14)  Japhet travels Internationally for TOP.  So, he is very busy.  While I could be wrong, I believe that Japhet has two International trips scheduled in the near future.

15)  One interesting comment:  Japhet has organized the Boulder congregation in a manner that is quite different from the typical SDA congregation.  In his organization, the members take the lead in every aspect of the congregational life.  They have the power and the pastoral staff is there to support them.  In addition, there is a place for every member to take leadership in the congregational life.  I will give you two examples:

a)  The Boulder congregation is reaching out to families with young children.  The mothers found it hard to keep their children  quiet during the preaching service.   So, that now comes first when they are best able to keep them quiet.  Sabbath School comes after the preaching service when the young children can be more active.

'b)  The Sabbath Service has a person who is a "Producer."  That person is totally responsible for seeing that the services take place as planned.  [NOTE:  It is not an Elder.}   One Sabbath I discovered several of  the Sabbath  School class rooms did not have chairs set up for people to sit in.  I informed the Producer for that day.  It was immediately resolved.

c)  An extra item of interest:  During the sermon, the congregation is invited to send a text message to the person preaching.  That message is immediately responded to by the preacher during the sermon.  [NOTE:  People on their cell phones may be participating in the sermon.]

16)Japhet and other leaders have personally met with people who sincerely wanted to know what TOP was all about.  As Japhet travels Internationally he has offered to meet with a major critic located in another country.  That  offer has not been accepted.  All to many of the critics have made no attempt to personally interact and dialogue with the leadership of TOP.  Yes, I know of exceptions.  But, most have not been interested in interacting with TOP leadership.  

 

I will call it quits for now.  Reddog, thank you for asking.

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Reddog has asked some questions about The One Project.  I will quote what he asked and respond with my answer and initials--GM.

"Our retired pastor and many of our leaders in our church have told us about these group of pastors and others who are pushing this 'One Project' which seems aimed at the young people."

GM: TOP is aimed as SDA members of all ages and background.  Yes is has a focus on younger people due to the fact that we are losing them.  But, it is a misunderstanding to think that the youth are the sole focus.  It is much broader than that.  Its focus is to make Christ the center of belief and life of every member.  It is attempting to reach out to  much more than just the younger  generation.

"And they are not saying good things about it. . . "

GM:  The above is a very narrow view.  Yes there are both members and SDA leaders who have some concerns about TOP.  But, there are as many who are positive about it as there are those who have some questions.  Actually  many who have some questions raise questions that are minor in nature and not of major import.  In my opinion, those who have raised major question often have not personally studied the issues for themselves.   It should be noted that this goes both ways.  I am personally aware of leadership that is supportive of TOP who is falsely implied to be negative to it.

 ".. . .and those who have come across it don't find much in it that is positive. . ."

GM:  See the above.

 ". . .as it appears to be part of the 'Emerging Church' movement and connected to Spiritual Formation somehow."

GM:   There are several things wrong with the above statement:

a) The Emerging Church movement is not a big thing in current spiritual life in the U.S.  It has come and gone.  In any case, the Emerging Church movement morphed into a variety of expressions, which is one reason why it is not a big thing today.  One might say that it lives on in some of its forms today in the U.S., but not in other forms.  

'b)  The same can be said about Spiritual Formation.

c)  People who make the above statement often quite a statement of belief made 20 years ago that does not represent the current belief of that person.  It is not fair to hold a person to a belief he held years ago but is not his current belief.

"Has anyone come across it or have something on what its purpose is, as I can barely find anything on it."

GM:  I can understand your confusion.  The critics have so filled the Internet that it is hard to find out what it is really about. Go to TOP website (listed in my post above) and read the book that they have written about themselves.
 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

By the way, I do not think that The One Project is perfect.  I have made suggestions to several of the leaders of TOP as to how they might operate.  All of my suggestions have been received and considered.  Yes, some of my suggestions have been accepted.  I am thinking right now of a major one that was accepted.  But, I consider that to be  covered by confidentiality.  There is a point where people need to be able to talk without thinking that the conversation will be posted on the Internet.

Some of my suggestions have related to administration, others have not been so related.

In any case my issues, if you want to call them that, have generally been of a minor nature.  They have not involved major issues such as the critics often charge. 

[JoeMo]

I have attended a One Project event at the Boulder, CO Church.  I agree with Greg that its sole purpose is to make Jesus the center of our worship and our denomination.  I met several SDA's there who I am sure as orthodox SDA's in high places.  There were faculty and clerical members from LOma Linda and Walla Walla; as well as staff members from the BRI and local area pastors and elders.

This was one of the first SDA gatherings I have been to in many years.  It was also one of the finest.  From my (what some would call) liberal leanings, this was a "kosher" SDA gathering, although a little more enthusiastic than most (a good thing).  People were actively engaged in the discussions rather than looking like they could hardly wait until the end.  For myself, it renewed my commitment to Adventism rather than diminished it.  I pray that the attitude and spirituality I witnessed at this event would spread all over the church!  If I could afford it, I would attend all the stateside gatherings because it was such a "booster shot" for my spirituality.  Their weekly devotionals are also very uplifting and inspiring.

As far as catering to young people, I would challenge that.  I am 66 years old; and brother Matthews is my "elder" brother (by only a few days!).  At least 1/3 of the people there were in our age bracket.

Rather than just ask others' opinion of them or just reading those articles critical of them, go to their website www.the1project.org  and see what they have to say first-hand.  I think you will be favorably impressed.

[Gregory Matthews]

Yes, in the Biblical construct where a day equals a year. 

 

 

[Unity]

From the Adventist Today article:

Quote

“Unity is mandated by God,” said Tim Gillespie

I couldn't agree more.

I find spiritualism easy to see, but difficult to describe in a way that couldn't possibly be misunderstood. Spiritualism wrapped in Adventism uses our words and cliches but applies worldly definitions and examples to them.

I encountered TOP early on and almost went to one of their meetings. I see a message with a lack of flavor and substance that reminds me of the spiritualist churches I have encountered. However I still wanted to go to a TOP meeting with a friend from my church who was going, but when I looked at its Facebook page I came across a post by an Adventist pastor that was clearly breaking the 4th commandment by selling tour boat tickets. A concerned individual had commented and I could see that at first they were ignored, and then when that hadn't worked the person was mocked.  I was incensed and contacted that concerned individual and they said a TOP official had just contacted him and said "you wouldn't enjoy it at the conference".  So if you're someone who would reprove open sin by a fellow church member, then you wouldn't enjoy it at The One Project conference.

I also have met a TOP speaker before they ever toured.  Extremely charismatic and popular. I've watched a bunch of that person's evangelism videos. It was well produced and pleasing to the eye, but after awhile I noticed I never heard the entire 3 Angels Message like I would with other Adventist evangelists.  The faith part was there in the sense that Jesus's name was mixed in with keywords like "trust", but the character of Jesus through His doctrines was left mostly untouched, and their was nothing about prophecy.  The videos were energizing if I just emptied my mind and didn't think critically about what that person was necessarily saying.  When I later came across the concept of spiritualism, my experience with that person immediately came to mind.

I have watched some videos by Project Iceberg.  I was uneasy about them naming individuals involved with TOP, but my recollection is that they spoke towards their actions rather than motivations.  And from what I recall those actions entirely consisted of TOP officials writing books that contained teachings from those who are self confirmed spiritualists.  I recollect that on a few occasions the Project Iceberg presenters said something to the effect that it's not about the motivations of members of TOP that is the issue, but the actions.  I'm almost sure that some of the viewer of the Iceberg Projects presentations will apply motivations to those actions, but that isn't on Project Iceberg. That's maybe more of an issue of SDA churches not teaching critical thinking skills or teaching that actions and motivations are not necessarily the same thing.

[Gregory Matthews]

Unity said below;

The One Project has never intended that people see it as Adventist evangelism.  If you expect this from it, you have totally misunderstood its mission and purpose.

It does not exist with the intention of converting people to Adventism.  It intends to help people who have already taken the name of Christ to understand how Christ Is the center of the focus of doctrine and life style.

The One Project does not replace Adventist evangelism.  It does not have the focus and mission of Adventist evangelism.  It should not be judged as one would rightly judge an Adventist evangelist.

No one person can do all that is required of the SDA Church.  After an Adventist evangelist brings a person into membership in the SDA  denomination, there are others who must nurture that person in the spiritual growth that must take place.  Even an Adventist evangelist does not do for a person all that is required of the SDA church today.

 

I noticed I never heard the entire 3 Angels Message like I would with other Adventist evangelists.  

[Gregory Matthews]

Unity said below:

Please explain.  It is not a violation of any commandment to sell tour boat tickets.  Some people make their living selling tickets on airplanes, boats and rental cars.

I am not being trite.  I simply do not understand your statement.

 

 I came across a post by an Adventist pastor that was clearly breaking the 4th commandment by selling tour boat tickets.

[Gregory Matthews]

Unity said below:

Yes, a One Project Gathering is not there to reprove open sin by anyone.

It has the belief that Christ is the answer and if a person has a connection with Christ that connection will result in changes in one's life.

So if you're someone who would reprove open sin by a fellow church member, then you wouldn't enjoy it at The One Project conference.

[Reddogs]

22 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Reddogs:

Let me commend you for asking an honest question and for including the two references that you have included.  I understand your comment to be an honest question and an attempt on your part to be fair.

I will respond to your questions in a following post.

Let me give my qualifications to answer:

1) My wife and I attended the Gathering in San Diego.

2)  I am currently  a member of the congregation that has Japhet as the Sr. pastor.  While I am in the process of moving to California, for a bit less than two years I attended his weekly services.  So, I know what he preaches and the spiritual leadership that he has.

3) He is currently the Sr. pastor of the Boulder SDA Church in Colorado, Rocky Mountain Conference.

4) On the average, Japhet and I communicated, either by e-mail, or in person, two or more times a week.  Those conversations were about equally divided between discussions of The One Project and local congregational matters.  I have a very good understanding as to where Japhet is coming from as it relates to The  One Project.

5)  I have personally spoken to other leaders of The One Project as well as SDA administrators on Local, Union and General Conference level on issues related to The One Project.  Much of this is covered by confidentiality and therefore I am often unable to name names and/or cite very specific statements.

6) Simply put:  The goal of The One Project is to make Christ the center of belief and life practice of individual SDA members.  There is no other purpose.

7)  The Boulder congregation places its services on the Internet for all to view.  You may access them at:  https://new.livestream.com/bouldersdachurch

8) The password for the above is: SDA7sda

9)  If you want to see what TOP says about itself, visit their website:  www.the1projectorg

10) The leaders of TOP have written a book that tells of their founding of TOP and what it about.  For some reason, few critics seem to have read that book.  Going by memory, I think it is titled THE ONE.

11) The five major leaders of TOP are all SDA pastors.  As such they are different individuals.  Please distinguish between their individual spiritual leadership and TOP.

12) Japhet is probably the finest congregational administrator that I have ever experienced.  The weekly sermons in the Boulder congregation are planed out more than one-year ahead with scriptural passage, title and the person who will preach that Sabbath.  He typically preaches along with the other members of the pastoral staff who consist of two to three other people, along with a couple of congregational members.  Those who preach will be asked to preach on the Biblical passage for that day.

13)  Typically the Sabbath sermons come in a series.  This may be a set of Biblical chapters from either the OT or the NT, such  as lessons from the life of King David.  They may be a series on a theme such as from the life of Christ. They do include sermons on beliefs dear to SDA members.

14)  Japhet travels Internationally for TOP.  So, he is very busy.  While I could be wrong, I believe that Japhet has two International trips scheduled in the near future.

15)  One interesting comment:  Japhet has organized the Boulder congregation in a manner that is quite different from the typical SDA congregation.  In his organization, the members take the lead in every aspect of the congregational life.  They have the power and the pastoral staff is there to support them.  In addition, there is a place for every member to take leadership in the congregational life.  I will give you two examples:

a)  The Boulder congregation is reaching out to families with young children.  The mothers found it hard to keep their children  quiet during the preaching service.   So, that now comes first when they are best able to keep them quiet.  Sabbath School comes after the preaching service when the young children can be more active.

'b)  The Sabbath Service has a person who is a "Producer."  That person is totally responsible for seeing that the services take place as planned.  [NOTE:  It is not an Elder.}   One Sabbath I discovered several of  the Sabbath  School class rooms did not have chairs set up for people to sit in.  I informed the Producer for that day.  It was immediately resolved.

c)  An extra item of interest:  During the sermon, the congregation is invited to send a text message to the person preaching.  That message is immediately responded to by the preacher during the sermon.  [NOTE:  People on their cell phones may be participating in the sermon.]

16)Japhet and other leaders have personally met with people who sincerely wanted to know what TOP was all about.  As Japhet travels Internationally he has offered to meet with a major critic located in another country.  That  offer has not been accepted.  All to many of the critics have made no attempt to personally interact and dialogue with the leadership of TOP.  Yes, I know of exceptions.  But, most have not been interested in interacting with TOP leadership.  

 

I will call it quits for now.  Reddog, thank you for asking.

 

Wow, that is where my retired Pastor has his home during the summer and goes to church, and that is where he saw the changes as he came back after one winter as it was drastic and not for the better. He ask the members how they could let this happen and they were basically blindsided and some had left and the others had no answer. He is coming today so I will ask him further on this.

 

 

[Reddogs]

22 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Reddog has asked some questions about The One Project.  I will quote what he asked and respond with my answer and initials--GM.

"Our retired pastor and many of our leaders in our church have told us about these group of pastors and others who are pushing this 'One Project' which seems aimed at the young people."

GM: TOP is aimed as SDA members of all ages and background.  Yes is has a focus on younger people due to the fact that we are losing them.  But, it is a misunderstanding to think that the youth are the sole focus.  It is much broader than that.  Its focus is to make Christ the center of belief and life of every member.  It is attempting to reach out to  much more than just the younger  generation.

"And they are not saying good things about it. . . "

GM:  The above is a very narrow view.  Yes there are both members and SDA leaders who have some concerns about TOP.  But, there are as many who are positive about it as there are those who have some questions.  Actually  many who have some questions raise questions that are minor in nature and not of major import.  In my opinion, those who have raised major question often have not personally studied the issues for themselves.   It should be noted that this goes both ways.  I am personally aware of leadership that is supportive of TOP who is falsely implied to be negative to it.

 ".. . .and those who have come across it don't find much in it that is positive. . ."

GM:  See the above.

 ". . .as it appears to be part of the 'Emerging Church' movement and connected to Spiritual Formation somehow."

GM:   There are several things wrong with the above statement:

a) The Emerging Church movement is not a big thing in current spiritual life in the U.S.  It has come and gone.  In any case, the Emerging Church movement morphed into a variety of expressions, which is one reason why it is not a big thing today.  One might say that it lives on in some of its forms today in the U.S., but not in other forms.  

'b)  The same can be said about Spiritual Formation.

c)  People who make the above statement often quite a statement of belief made 20 years ago that does not represent the current belief of that person.  It is not fair to hold a person to a belief he held years ago but is not his current belief.

"Has anyone come across it or have something on what its purpose is, as I can barely find anything on it."

GM:  I can understand your confusion.  The critics have so filled the Internet that it is hard to find out what it is really about. Go to TOP website (listed in my post above) and read the book that they have written about themselves.
 

 

I would disagree that the emerging church has just  'come and gone',  but as you say morphed, faded, and done most of its damage by now as it has injected its false message and spiritual formation into countless denominations including many Adventist churches through the Adventist pastors that went there. One of our pastors in our old church took all the young people up to Willow Creek and within months they were following its message and created a church that catered to "new members" but stripped of any of the truths of Adventism, I didn't catch it till they told me not to teach from Ellen White and to use others such as Max Lucado and we slowly drifted into what others came and said was 'church lite', all the form of a Adventist church, but light on any true substance, or nothing inside. It is like the old story of the frog in the pot of water, who like us sat there impervious to the changes the temperature till it reaches high heat and destroys your beliefs and spiritual nature, and it is replaced in worship with a false one.

[Gregory Matthews]

The following will give more information on TOP and the next Gathering in the U.S.  Scroll down through the post and read it all.

http://theoneproject.cmail19.com/t/ViewEmail/r/0AF5EF6D8019D2752540EF23F30FEDED/28646C30B04465542438807772DD75D1

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K.   So, you  reference some people who went to Willow Creek and what you believe happened in a congregation afterwards.

Well, you are attempting to apply a generality to TOP and TOP is not Willow Creek. 

[Unity]

On 12/4/2015, 10:58:26, Gregory Matthews said:

Please explain.  It is not a violation of any commandment to sell tour boat tickets.  Some people make their living selling tickets on airplanes, boats and rental cars.

The time for the boat ride was on Sabbath.

On 12/4/2015, 11:02:20, Gregory Matthews said:

Yes, a One Project Gathering is not there to reprove open sin by anyone.

It has the belief that Christ is the answer and if a person has a connection with Christ that connection will result in changes in one's life.

Then the command of Jesus in Matthew 18:15-17 is ignored.

[Gregory Matthews]

Thank you Unity for your explaination.

The time for the tour was on Sabbath:  O.K.  Now we have established that you were not telling us that the person was selling such on the Sabbath.  Rather, you were telling us that the tour was on the Sabbath.  So, your point is not that person who was selling was breaking the Sabbath law, but that the people taking the tour on the Sabbath was breaking the 4th commandment.  Now, in order to further understand your point, my  question is:  Are you telling us that any kind of a Sabbath tour would be breaking the 4th Commandment.  You see, you have not informed us as to the content of the tour.  I could  understand your position if you  were to tell us that the tour was of local places that produced wine and allowed tasting. 

I have attended and/or been aware of many times when at a Conference an optional tour was offered on the Sabbath.  Some of these Conferences were sponsored by denominational organizations to include the  General Conference.  In overseas locations these have included places of religious interest such as the 7-churches of Revelation.  In the United States these have included places of denominational interest such as a home where EGW lived (I took this one on the Sabbath.), places of early interest in the development of the SDA Church (These have included a Sabbath worship service in such a place.), places of local denominational interest and places of natural beauty such as national parks and forests.  I doubt that you would condemn such tours.  If I am wrong, please correct me.

Unity, in short you have made a charge, but failed to give us enough  information to individually consider it and to decide whether or not we personally agree with you.

Reprove sin: There, as Christ said, is clearly a place to reprove sin.  Biblically the Holy Spirit is in charge of that.  But, you clearly fail to understand the purpose and place of TOP.  Personally, I would rather wait to "reprove sin" until a person had come to Christ.  I would want to bring them first, to the place where they saw Christ as being the answer to their needs and human  condition.  I would first want to bring them to the place where they accepted Christ, wanted to follow Him and saw Christ as the center of all doctrine and belief.

A One Project Gathering is very short.  It typically lasts two to  four days, or even less (I have attend both.).  During that short period of time the focus is on Christ and attempting to see Christ as the answer to  the human issues that we    face and the center of our life and belief.  There is not time to point to individual sin and reprove it.  Christ comes first and must come first.  People who attempt to change their lives without Christ and on their own have failed to take advantage of the salvation that Christ offers us.

At San Diego I, for one day, led a group of 8 people in considering the message of The One Project and how it might impact on their lives.  I will maintain confidentiality in what I now say.  Six of my eight were in significant spiritual distress.  Two of them had come to the Gathering with the intention of making a decision as to whether or not they would continue to be members of the SDA Church.  Four were undergoing other significant spiritual distress in their lives.  They were hurting people.  This was not the time to quote "reprove the sins in their lives."  Rather what they needed was a new experience in Christ.  Christ was the answer and to include what may have been obvious sin.  Some knew what was wrong in their lives.  They needed relief and freedom, a way out of the mess in which they found themselves.  They needed a faith to believe that Christ was willing to lead them out of their spiritual mess.  They did not need spiritual condemnation.  Yes, in the future they might need some guidance and advice that could not be given in the short period of time at the Gathering.  They should be  commended for the money that they had spent to travel to and attend the Gathering.  [NOTE:  One person of my eight had come to the Gathering from a country outside of North, South and Central America.  S/he had spent a very large amount of money in order of obtain spiritual help.]

If you  are telling us that TOP is failing to follow the advice of Christ to reprove sin, you fail to understand the purpose of TOP, the spiritual needs of the people who attend (They are wanting a different relationship with Christ.) and you fail to understand  that a commitment to follow Christ and the leading of the Holy Spirit should be the first objective in evangelizing people.

[Unity]

33 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Now, in order to further understand your point, my  question is:  Are you telling us that any kind of a Sabbath tour would be breaking the 4th Commandment.

No

33 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

I have attended and/or been aware of many times when at a Conference an optional tour was offered on the Sabbath.  Some of these Conferences were sponsored by denominational organizations to include the  General Conference.  In overseas locations these have included places of religious interest such as the 7-churches of Revelation.  In the United States these have included places of denominational interest such as a home where EGW lived (I took this one on the Sabbath.), places of early interest in the development of the SDA Church (These have included a Sabbath worship service in such a place.), places of local denominational interest and places of natural beauty such as national parks and forests.  I doubt that you would condemn such tours.  If I am wrong, please correct me.

I would refer them to Ellen White's counsel on appropriate Sabbath behavior.  I don't have enough details to judge with.

36 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

But, you clearly fail to understand the purpose and place of TOP.  Personally, I would rather wait to "reprove sin" until a person had come to Christ.  I would want to bring them first, to the place where they saw Christ as being the answer to their needs and human  condition.  I would first want to bring them to the place where they accepted Christ, wanted to follow Him and saw Christ as the center of all doctrine and belief.

I see what you're saying, but TOP does attract quite a few Adventist members.  And the Adventist pastor was selling the tickets he could no longer personally use because he wasn't attending, so he was setting a bad example.  He would have gone on that trip.  I don't judge those who aren't church members.

49 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

If you  are telling us that TOP is failing to follow the advice of Christ to reprove sin, you fail to understand the purpose of TOP, the spiritual needs of the people who attend (They are wanting a different relationship with Christ.) and you fail to understand  that a commitment to follow Christ and the leading of the Holy Spirit should be the first objective in evangelizing people.

TOP is lead by Adventist Pastors who failed to reprove sin by another Adventist Pastor.  That is not an example of following Christ and not an example of the Holy Spirit.  If they are using that to evangelize to people then I have to question who they are really going to attract, and how many of them will end up in the Adventist Church as voting members who influence the future path of our church.  Not everyone who says Lord will be admitted into the kingdom of heaven.  And then their is example those Adventist leaders are setting for the Adventist Church members that are attending their meetings.

[Gregory Matthews]

Again, you have failed to understand The One Project.   I may be partially responsible for your misunderstand in that I have failed to communicate the facts.  I will take responsibility for that and apologize for not being clear.

1) The vast majority of  people who attend TOP Gatherings are members of the SDA Church who are looking for a different relationship with Jesus Christ and/or for a better understanding as to how Christ is the center of belief and practice. 

2) In my example, all 8  members of my group were members of a SDA Congregation and  had been members for some time.

3) I appreciate your attempt to dialogue with me on the issue of the SDA pastor selling tour tickets.  I thought that you were telling us that the tour tickets were somehow a part of the overall Gathering and were offered to all who attended.  Now it appears that some individual SDA pastor was individually selling some tour tickets that s/he could not use, at least as I understand you.

Going by memory, at the San Diego Gathering we had more than 1,000 people attend.   Many were SDA clergy to include people from the General Conference,   Union and local Conferences.  I personally know that the individuals responsible for running that Gathering were extremely busy with responding to issues that required immediate attention in order for the conference to continue.  I personally brought  an issue to their attention and they were unable to address it as it did not affect the immediate conference.  It    could be addressed for the future.  I can well imagine that they literally did not have time to address individual issues that arose among the 1,000 plus people who attended to include the many clergy.  I cannot fault them for this.  Personally I would have wished that they had addressed the issue that I brought to them.  But, with the passage of time I have come to believe that it really could not have been addressed in a timely manner and the decision not to address it was the correct one.

NOTE:  As you have failed to tell us about the nature of the Sabbath tours that the SDA pastor was selling, in my thinking, you have failed to substantiate your point.  If he was selling a tour of the Pacific Coast  Redwoods, many would  consider that to be appropriate.  You might disagree, but at least you would have  given enough information for all to make up their own minds. 

By the way I am personally aware of the general public being taking on a similar tour by a devout SDA tour guide who in his tour spoke of a God who had created the natural world that was being shown to them.  However, in this case, he did not sell the tickets that they purchased.  You might not agree with the position taken by that SDA tour guide.  At a later time in his spiritual journey, he changed his occupation.  But, he was on a spiritual journey and following the leading, as he understood it, of the Holly Spirit.  He did not need you to reprove him.    He needed people to walk with him on his spiritual journey. 

 

[Unity]

11 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

But, he was on a spiritual journey and following the leading, as he understood it, of the Holy Spirit.

That seems to be the root of your perspective and of TOP.  That is the holy spirit card.  That card allows people in the church to do anything that is culturally acceptable to their local church, even if it goes against the commands of the Bible.  It also allows culturally unacceptable behaviors to add to or even over rule Bible commands.  The modus operandi makes it acceptable to call good evil and evil good.

In the case of TOP it was reproof of open sin that isn't acceptable even though The Bible is full of such examples and instruction (ie Matthew 18:15-17).  But an Adventist Pastor who says it's OK to go on a commercial tour boat by selling spare tickets that would have been used anyway is acceptable.  Approval is shown for open sin, but disapproval for the keeping of God's command.  In the supposed name of the holy spirit, light is called darkness and darkness is called light.

Our light comes from upholding the righteousness of God in our words and actions, and that is what will attract God's children. Darkness comes from doing the opposite and offending God's children and will invite the harsh drowning curse of Matthew 18.  Verses 15-17 are meant to save us from that.  Every church claims to have faith in Jesus and the Holy Spirit, but only one church will prove it by remembering the commandments of God and have them them in their minds and hands in all that they do.

[Gregory Matthews]

That seems to be the root of your perspective and of TOP.  That is the holy spirit card.  That card allows people in the church to do anything that is culturally acceptable to their local church, even if it goes against the commands of the Bible.  It also allows culturally unacceptable behaviors to add to or even over rule Bible commands.  The modus operandi makes it acceptable to call good evil and evil good.

If the above were true,  it would apply to congregations and those who became members.  It would not apply to The One Project.

You are clearly miss-representing TOP.  Well, I can not stop you from doing such, if that is what you want to do.  TOP simply does not get into the areas that you discuss. 

[aka]

Greg speaks:

Simply put:  The goal of The One Project is to make Christ the center of belief and life practice of individual SDA members.  There is no other purpose. The vast majority of  people who attend TOP Gatherings are members of the SDA Church who are looking for a different relationship with Jesus Christ and/or for a better understanding as to how Christ is the center of belief and practice.

The One Project has never intended that people see it as Adventist evangelism.  If you expect this from it, you have totally misunderstood its mission and purpose.

It does not exist with the intention of converting people to Adventism.  It intends to help people who have already taken the name of Christ to understand how Christ is the center of the focus of doctrine and life style.

A One Project Gathering is very short.  It typically lasts two to  four days, or even less (I have attend both.).  During that short period of time the focus is on Christ and attempting to see Christ as the answer to  the human issues that we face and the center of our life and belief.

You fail to understand  that a commitment to follow Christ, and the leading of the Holy Spirit, should be the first objective in evangelizing people.

The following will give more information on TOP and the next Gathering in the U.S.  Scroll down through the post and read it all.

http://theoneproject.cmail19.com/t/ViewEmail/r/0AF5EF6D8019D2752540EF23F30FEDED/28646C30B04465542438807772DD75D1

--------------

I say:

It was faith in what Christ had done that finally gave Martin Luther the peace he so much craved.

As for us…. have we really renounced all of our self-righteousness thinking we would thereby be approved of by God?

I sense the majority of the SDA’s I personally know seek to substitute a superficial faith for uprightness of life and they think through this to obtain salvation.

Are we convicted to plead personally for the righteousness of Christ to be imputed to us?

We’re taught that we must depend wholly upon Christ for our spiritual strength to resist temptation to sin against God’s Law.

Is the mystery of dying to ‘self’ a personal reality?

Blessed is one who starts with faith in Christ’s sacrifice and merits, then goes on to live in Agape love, and love by obedience.

Then the Holy Spirit would provide the power to transform the believer into the divine image.

Have we reached the point also of exercising faith in the blood of Christ as our only means of divine pardon?

I thoroughly believe that the Son of God has died as our sacrifice and has ascended to Heaven to stand before the Father as our Advocate.

Sadly, our spiritual hearts get so harden to the presence of sinfulness around us that we know little of repentance for the sin we commit.

I see a spiritual help in faith we may be freed from the condemnation of sin by calling on the Righteousness of Christ as The One Project is promoting.

It is then through the grace of Christ we’ll be enabled daily to give obedience to the law of God.

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

I find much in what you    have posted above to agree with.  But, you have managed to say it in a way that comes across as judgmental of probably the majority of SDAs.

Salvation is a series of steps that take place over the lifetime of a person.  As a person walks that spiritual path they can have the assurance that if they were to die that day, in the merits of Christ, they would be safe to save and can spend eternity with the risen Christ.

What The One Project does  is only one step in that path.  It is not the complete  journey.  It does not claim to be.

I am reminded of the first Sabbath that my wife and I spend in a SDA congregation in Central America.  They baptized a couple whom obviously would be considered by some Adventists to not be ready for baptism.  I had expected this congregation to be more conservative.  As it was led by the Conference President, I expected it to hue a more conservative line.  In truth, the President was much more conservative.  However, in that congregation, baptism was not the end.  Over the next couple of years the congregation continued to work with that couple.  By the time that we moved back to the United States the couple had moved to a much more conservative stance. 

[Reddogs]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2015 at 10:53 PM, Unity said:

From the Adventist Today article:

I couldn't agree more.

I find spiritualism easy to see, but difficult to describe in a way that couldn't possibly be misunderstood. Spiritualism wrapped in Adventism uses our words and cliches but applies worldly definitions and examples to them.

I encountered TOP early on and almost went to one of their meetings. I see a message with a lack of flavor and substance that reminds me of the spiritualist churches I have encountered. However I still wanted to go to a TOP meeting with a friend from my church who was going, but when I looked at its Facebook page I came across a post by an Adventist pastor that was clearly breaking the 4th commandment by selling tour boat tickets. A concerned individual had commented and I could see that at first they were ignored, and then when that hadn't worked the person was mocked.  I was incensed and contacted that concerned individual and they said a TOP official had just contacted him and said "you wouldn't enjoy it at the conference".  So if you're someone who would reprove open sin by a fellow church member, then you wouldn't enjoy it at The One Project conference.

I also have met a TOP speaker before they ever toured.  Extremely charismatic and popular. I've watched a bunch of that person's evangelism videos. It was well produced and pleasing to the eye, but after awhile I noticed I never heard the entire 3 Angels Message like I would with other Adventist evangelists.  The faith part was there in the sense that Jesus's name was mixed in with keywords like "trust", but the character of Jesus through His doctrines was left mostly untouched, and their was nothing about prophecy.  The videos were energizing if I just emptied my mind and didn't think critically about what that person was necessarily saying.  When I later came across the concept of spiritualism, my experience with that person immediately came to mind.

I have watched some videos by Project Iceberg.  I was uneasy about them naming individuals involved with TOP, but my recollection is that they spoke towards their actions rather than motivations.  And from what I recall those actions entirely consisted of TOP officials writing books that contained teachings from those who are self confirmed spiritualists.  I recollect that on a few occasions the Project Iceberg presenters said something to the effect that it's not about the motivations of members of TOP that is the issue, but the actions.  I'm almost sure that some of the viewer of the Iceberg Projects presentations will apply motivations to those actions, but that isn't on Project Iceberg. That's maybe more of an issue of SDA churches not teaching critical thinking skills or teaching that actions and motivations are not necessarily the same thing.

Yes, this is what my retired pastor presented to us as the agenda and purpose of the One Project in his view. I went and sat down with him after Wednesday night prayer meeting and asked him on this issue. He said the church in Colorado had become nothing but another version of the Willow Creek model/emergent church type worship to attract and retain with entertainment and music rather than with truth and the gospel. The windows were covered and it was darkened with a spotlight on the stage and the band behind the speaker with its drums and electric instruments. Form had taken over substance and platitudes over real truth or doctrine, and my retired pastor went and asked the older members what had happened to their lovely church and what they were going to do about it and they knew but felt they just couldn't leave their church as they felt they didn't have anywhere to go, convenience and familiarity had become more important. He went to the conference and tried to raise the alarm and they didn't believe his warnings or worse didn't want to believe and he let them know should be ashamed for what was happening. Here is a good description I came across that fits what my retire pastor was telling me of what it is:

"I had made no plans to attend the One Project scheduled for February 10 and 11 in Seattle, but a mid-morning phone call stirred me from my intended Sunday morning sleep-in.  A friend on the phone urged, "I've been given two tickets to the One Project. They’re free!  Do you want to go?  Let's go! Free tickets!" That got me up and going.

Within four hours we had both put the next three days of our lives on hold and prayerfully began the drive across our freshly snow-blanketed state, eager to hear and find out what the One Project was all about. I had heard the slogans "Supremacy of Jesus" and "Jesus. All." but knew little else.

As the elevator doors opened on the Seattle Westin Hotel’s fourth floor, we were greeted with the sound of live rock music coming from the adjacent ballroom---guitars, electronic keyboard, full trap set with drums---all on overload.  My first thought was, "We’ve got to be on the wrong floor."  But no, these were our own homegrown Adventist rock musicians.  And they continued with their ‘rock,’ before, after and in between each activity during the next two days.

During registration, we were informed that all the attendees had been encouraged to read The Desire of Ages and the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John before coming.  Initially I felt unprepared, not having reread these books recently.  However, throughout the conference there was little reference to any of these books again.

The hotel ballroom, arranged with large round tables and a stage at one end, quickly filled with over 750 people.  The 2014 Seattle One Project, titled Jesus. All., subtitled "Present Truth."

Discovering “Present Truth” was to be the topic, so I began reviewing in my mind those unique beliefs revealed during the founding of our church--the sanctuary, the Sabbath, the state of the dead,  the second coming of Christ--all within the context of the three angels messages, the foundational Adventist truths I learned as a child. I began to listen for “Present Truth.”

The structure of the event included lecturers, video clips, discussion groups, and an occasional “open mic.” I quickly saw that each of these activities were overtly urging the notion of “change,” no defined change, simply change. Each video clip (about a minute in length) depicted a different person walking through beautiful nature scenes with a voiceover revealing their “dreams” for our church. During the group discussions called "recalibration," there were “trained” facilitators, guiding and refocusing conversation only toward the prepared questions assigned to each group.  Even the group discussion name “recalibration” implied “change” since only a malfunctioning machine needs recalibration.

I continued listening for an Adventist version of “Present Truth,” but instead heard a revised truth--a nebulous truth that focused on “conversation” and “dialogue,” with consensus determining direction. I heard people disillusioned with the established church structure, some seeking to deconstruct traditional worship. I heard an urging that a “narrative” truth be interpreted by “current culture.”  I heard an advocacy for a social gospel with no mention of evangelism.  I heard an urgency that we dip into “other streams” and “streams that flow both ways” for truth.  And I heard mockery of our church both in word and in tone from the platform and attendees. I heard an emergent truth..."

 

[Reddogs]

On ‎12‎/‎6‎/‎2015 at 9:09 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Again, you have failed to understand The One Project.   I may be partially responsible for your misunderstand in that I have failed to communicate the facts.  I will take responsibility for that and apologize for not being clear.

1) The vast majority of  people who attend TOP Gatherings are members of the SDA Church who are looking for a different relationship with Jesus Christ and/or for a better understanding as to how Christ is the center of belief and practice. 

2) In my example, all 8  members of my group were members of a SDA Congregation and  had been members for some time.

3) I appreciate your attempt to dialogue with me on the issue of the SDA pastor selling tour tickets.  I thought that you were telling us that the tour tickets were somehow a part of the overall Gathering and were offered to all who attended.  Now it appears that some individual SDA pastor was individually selling some tour tickets that s/he could not use, at least as I understand you.

Going by memory, at the San Diego Gathering we had more than 1,000 people attend.   Many were SDA clergy to include people from the General Conference,   Union and local Conferences.  I personally know that the individuals responsible for running that Gathering were extremely busy with responding to issues that required immediate attention in order for the conference to continue.  I personally brought  an issue to their attention and they were unable to address it as it did not affect the immediate conference.  It    could be addressed for the future.  I can well imagine that they literally did not have time to address individual issues that arose among the 1,000 plus people who attended to include the many clergy.  I cannot fault them for this.  Personally I would have wished that they had addressed the issue that I brought to them.  But, with the passage of time I have come to believe that it really could not have been addressed in a timely manner and the decision not to address it was the correct one.

NOTE:  As you have failed to tell us about the nature of the Sabbath tours that the SDA pastor was selling, in my thinking, you have failed to substantiate your point.  If he was selling a tour of the Pacific Coast  Redwoods, many would  consider that to be appropriate.  You might disagree, but at least you would have  given enough information for all to make up their own minds. 

By the way I am personally aware of the general public being taking on a similar tour by a devout SDA tour guide who in his tour spoke of a God who had created the natural world that was being shown to them.  However, in this case, he did not sell the tickets that they purchased.  You might not agree with the position taken by that SDA tour guide.  At a later time in his spiritual journey, he changed his occupation.  But, he was on a spiritual journey and following the leading, as he understood it, of the Holly Spirit.  He did not need you to reprove him.    He needed people to walk with him on his spiritual journey. 

 

They claim it is Christ they are bringing but they are bringing something else, and it clearly appears they pervert the gospel of Jesus Christ. We must be a church "rightly dividing" what is presented, in order to keep our understanding, not only of the gospel, but of the Bible itself, in proper perspective. We cannot change it to cater to the current fads or morph the "celebration style" of worship under another name to fool the people. God knows and He will judge these people who are doing this, it is at great peril to their own souls and even worse to the members who don't see what they are doing. I was in a celebration church for years and never grasped the danger till afterwards, Ellen White was slowly muted then taken away, the music with the band and drums became the driving force and focus, the doctrines became watered down till Adventism was almost no longer even part of the beliefs, and we were left open to current fads and strange doctrines, introducing another Jesus, another Spirit, another gospel. That is why we see Adventist churches where any sin, or abomination to God is now become acceptable, come in as you are was the overriding mantra we were given, but they forgot about the repent and sin no more and be saved part.  

I was young and gullible then, and Willow Creek was but a name and celebration but a style, and it has morphed and mutated. But as the saying goes.. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me, but fool me the third time, I don't think so.

[Reddogs]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2015 at 8:51 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

O.K.   So, you  reference some people who went to Willow Creek and what you believe happened in a congregation afterwards.

Well, you are attempting to apply a generality to TOP and TOP is not Willow Creek. 

Six half dozen or as we say in the islands, same dog puppy. Wake up my brother, dig deep and you will find it has morphed but is the same spirit and driving force.