What is the One Project and its true purpose.

[Gregory Matthews]

Reddogs:  I cannot testify as to the truth of what you have personally experienced.

I can testify as to the truth of what you imply as applicable to The One Project and the implication is not true.

You mention how EGW was slowly muted and then taken away.  For years I attended a Sabbath School class at Boulder.  It was taught, on a rotating basis by a person deeply involved with TOP, who also preached sometimes.  In his SS classes (to include discussions when he was not in charge)  and in his sermons he frequently quoted/referenced/cited Ellen White.

This was a SS class that sometimes used the Quarterly and sometimes did not.  E.G.  On one occasion a book written by a well known SDA on the life and ministry of EGW was purchased and given to every person attending the class, with no expectation that they would be required to pay for it.  A chapter in the book was discussed each week.

The church that I attended is a congregation that  has classes that purchase SDA books and study them, chapter by chapter each week.  It also has classes that focus  on  the ministry and life of Jesus Christ as well as classes that focus on the 28 fundamental beliefs of SDAs.

It is a congregation that welcomes people to its services who are not SDA and may not be Christian.  The class that I attended typically has non-SDAs attending.  One of those non-SDA persons probably knows more about what Ellen White  has written than do some SDAs.  He regularly presents to the class his understanding of what she has written.  He has attended for several years.  No, he is not ready to become a member.  However, over the years that he has attended, we have seen the influence of the ministry provided him by the congregation move him along in his growing spiritual maturity.  He is further along in  his spiritual life than he was when he first began to attend.

I am certain that    if you were to attend you could find something to criticize, something that did not live up to your standards.  So, perhaps the Boulder congregation is not for you.  If so, please do not attend it.  Do not view its services which are streamed over the Internet. Rather associate with a congregation that is able to lead you spiritually.  May the Lord bless you on yo ur spiritual journey.  But, in the meantime I  will suggest that you devote your life and ministry to a more positive approach to leading others to Christ.  The time that you are spending in presenting an organization in a negative manner that does not represent the truth, in some aspects, is not helpful.  I do believe that Christ had something to say to those who came to him with questions about some who were working a bit differently than they were working.

[Gregory Matthews]

Reddogs:  Here is a recent publication from The One Project.  It is a human statement and no  human statement is ever totally true and complete to include those that you make.  So criticize the following at will.  As I have suggested, spend more time in a positive approach to the life and needs of people in need of salvation.

The eternal keeper In thinking about different forms of “keeping" and “keepers," we might think about God as a “keeper," and remind ourselves of His “keeping," which flows forth from His love, like a river of pure water of life, to the whole human family. He is the keeper of the whole earth, "in him we live and move and have our being” (1). He is also the keeper of the whole universe. We do not often think of this. Without God and His love for mankind, mankind would not have life sustained for us now in the present, nor throughout all of eternity to come. We are dependent on God for every breath of air and every morsel of food for our whole lives, now and for all of eternity. This is true of spiritual food also. Christ is the "bread of life" given to mankind to feed our hearts and souls and spirits now, but also to keep sustaining us for all the eternal ages. He is mankind’s “keeper” forever. If no angel or human being had ever sinned, God would still be the sustainer and keeper of life for men and for angels. Sin has not changed this need by God’s creatures to be “kept” and sustained by God. Sin has only changed the extent to which God would need act in order to “keep” us for eternity. For the joy of “keeping” mankind for all of eternity to come, God, embodied in Christ, “endured the cross" (2). This was a new level of “keeping” that neither men nor heavenly angels or fallen angels ever anticipated. It was required by the nature of sin. This sacrifice of love, by God for His children—all mankind, is what is to keep the human family inside divine love for eternity; taking us into forgiven life, redeemed life and eternal life. This divine gift of love reaches to everyone throughout human history from before our births. We were loved from before our births. From before the conception of this earth in God’s mind, such a “keeping” commitment was in His heart for His future children. From before “the foundation of the world,” God’s love was the same. He would die for His creation—and God is unchanging in nature for all eternity to come. God Himself is willing to give up His own existence, if He could, to give his children life—just as loving human parents will die for their children, but God's commitment to us is even greater. Thus, "the Word became flesh" (3). Jesus said, “If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give . . .” (4). We can extend this idea by saying, “and if you, though you are evil, love enough to give up your own lives for your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give up His own life for you?”  God’s love, and His keeping, is far far greater than human love and human “keeping” and human willingness to die for our own children. The idea of God as our keeper can take us in many directions in Scripture, and this theme is found in various places throughout the Bible. "The Lord is my shepherd I shall not want" (5) is one example. This shepherd “keeps" looking for the one lost sheep, until he finds it (6). This is a rather heartwarming form of the divine "keeping." Jesus said: “‘I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep” (7). God as our “keeper" is a rich area to contemplate and focus on, and to inspire us to love each other even more, and to “keep” on loving each other. Our love for others, and our “keeping” of others, and of each other, springs from the Source of all “keeping." The whole story of redemption in Scripture reveals that God has committed himself to sustain and feed and “keep” all of His “sheep," not only physically but spiritually—for all of eternity. God’s “keeping" lasts forever. God is love and His character does not fluctuate or change throughout eternity. “Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever" (8). God’s “keeping-love” will continue, unabated and undiluted in its flowing abundance and richness, for all of eternity. Humanity is assured of safety and security for all of eternity. The depth of God’s commitment of “keeping-love” towards the human family is demonstrated even further in the fact that this love was given to all mankind while we were still enemies towards God in our minds, and enemies of righteousness, and then even further: that this forgiving love was given through the death of His own Son. This was all done so that we might live inside this divine love and “keeping”—and experience this love in our hearts (9). The death of the Son of God for the human family means that none of us will ever doubt or fear, but always be ”kept” trusting in such divine love for us, and this was needed in order for redeemed sinners to be able to trust and feel safe in God for all eternity with all fear removed.  Human keeping of friends, and even family, may fail, but this divine “keeping” will not, and has not, it has died for us, even while we were “far away” in a distant country. The prodigal son was deeply loved by his father even while he was far away from his father (10). “Christ’s love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died” said the apostle Paul (11), further indicating the Shepherd’s love for the whole human family, with none left out from the divine “keeping." We are looking at nothing less than the nature of divine love. The love of God has no wavering or flinching or varying in its desires and love for all mankind. The commitment of God, is a commitment that includes keeping and nourishing the whole human family with His divine love for all eternity to come. God’s dwelling is to be with the human family for all of eternity. “Now the dwelling of God is with men, and He will live with them . . . there will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain” (12). The Book of Revelation reveals that God in Christ the Lamb is to be “married” to the human family for all of eternity, never divorcing Himself from us nor leaving mankind for all of eternity (13). This is a sacred marriage, an unfathomable commitment indeed by the eternal God! This is what God pre-committed himself to, from, and before the creation of the world: and which he subsequently fully demonstrated by Calvary. God is not only the “keeper", and shepherd of mankind, He is also the divine shepherd of angels. His love is no less for the family of angels above than for the human family on earth below. His name (character) is above all names, and above both men’s and angels’ levels of love. God’s “keeping-love” is above all earthly “keeping”, and all earthly love, and greater than the love of even the sinless angels. “Marvel O heavens, be astonished O earth!” At his “Name," at his “character," of divine love and keeping, “every knee shall bow, both on earth and in heaven" (14). Mankind and the whole universe are to remain astonished by this love for all of eternity to come; and thrilled beyond measure, and richly nourished, and kept, and safe and joyful and rejoicing! Rejoicing for eternity in the love of God and His Son, “the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world” (15). For the joy of “keeping” mankind for all eternity the divine Son of God endured the cross—which was also evidence of the Father’s love for mankind. Jesus said, “The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life” for the world (16). What a wondrous divine Keeper mankind has to adore and worship! And to inspire all of us to love and serve each other better, and not to give up in discouragement, but to "keep on keeping on”, on the difficult pathway of life. "We have not followed cunningly devised fables" (17),  but a divine heart that has died for each of us, to “keep," and not “lose” mankind—you and me. What more can be asked for, hoped for, prayed for? The joy of those who wish to be loved and “kept” by God for eternity will know no bounds and the singing and rejoicing will be irrepressible. “Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, all that is in them, singing: ‘To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honour and glory and power for ever and ever’ ” (18). “For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd; he will lead them to springs of living water. And God will wipe every tear from their eyes” (19). Our eternal “keeper.” Scripture references (1) Acts 17:28; (2) Hebrews 12:2; (3) John 1:14; (4) Matthew 7:11 (5) Psalm 23:1; (6) Luke 15:1-7; (7) John 10:11; (8) Heb 13:8; (9) Romans 5:6-10; (10) Luke 15:11-31; (11) 2 Corinthians 5:14; (12) Revelation 21:3,4; (13) Revelation 21:2,3,9; (14) Philippians 2:6-10; (15) Rev 13:8; (16) John 10:17; (17) 2 Peter 1:16; (18) Rev 5:13; (19) Rev 7:17. Michael Dabson is a pastor who lives in Cooranbong, Australia. Thank Michael for sharing.   KEEPERS is a weekly One project devotional series exploring from a variety of angles the well-known rhetorical question, “Am I my brother’s keeper?” (Gen. 4:9). This phrase expresses a central tension in our community lives. To what extent are we our brothers’ keepers? Even more crucial, to what extent are other people our keepers? Various cultures have different attitudes toward autonomy and interconnectedness, but probably few are as conflicted about the exact definition of community, its boundaries, and its responsibilities as Western culture is. We want help, but hate advice. We value friends, but resent obligations. We enjoy affirmation and seethe at rebuke. We want community, but only when it meets our intensely parsed criteria for what we deem helpful. Don’t you dare look at me and tell me what you think I need, our attitude screams. I’ll tell you what I need and you give it to me. Then you’re my friend. Then we’re a community. And when we offer help, we expect gratitude, maybe even adoration. We like being keepers better than we like being kept, but we’re pretty poor at both. Yet existing in community is essential to our humanity. How can we balance the tensions we experience in positive ways? SHARE! Do you have a story to share related to the idea of keeping or being kept? Have there been times when other people have been your keeper with surprising results? Have you struggled with determining appropriate boundaries in your relationships with others? If you'd like to write a devotional for the One project Keepers series, email the editor.

[Unity]

Thank you Reddogs, reading everything you have written has been an encouragement.

On 12/12/2015 at 3:35 AM, Reddogs said:

Six half dozen or as we say in the islands, same dog puppy. Wake up my brother, dig deep and you will find it has morphed but is the same spirit and driving force.

 

[JoeMo]

TOP may not be for everyone.  Personally, I like it and support it.  It's time we quit looking for ways to exclude those who don't believe EXACTLY like us; and be inclusive of all who put Christ first - regardless of their indosynchratic denominational quirks.  Are we called to make all people disciples of Christ or merely denominational SDA's?  I vote for the former.

Notice I said "PUT CHRIST FIRST".  I'm not saying we as Christians should include beliefs of non-believers; yet we should love and reach out to all ALL people regardless of their faith.  Jesus died for all men and women; not just historic SDA's.  He wants all to be saved.  Once a person falls in love with Jesus and is filled with His Spirit, that same Spirit can lead us into all truth without the help of our specific denomination.  Let people develop their own relationship with Jesus rather than forcing our peculiar doctines on them as a condition of salvation.

[Gregory Matthews]

I thought for a bit as to how I might respond to 'Reddog's diatribe.  In thinking I came to the conclusion that there is a positive element to what he is saying.  His posts will potentially result in some honest people looking deeper into what The One Project really is.  They will form their opinions based upon their first-hand knowledge and not what someone has simply copied from others.  NOTE:  No specific reference here.  I am no longer even thinking about Reddogs post.

If you want to know what happens in the Boulder SDA Church and what Japhet preaches, watch the video that is streamed over the Internet.   You can find it at:  https://new.livestream.com/bouldersdachurch   The password is:  SDA7sda

I am reminded of a daily radio program that I once had.   A local pastor also had a daily radio  program.  Every day he would tell his audience what was wrong with what I had said that morning.  When the time came for me to leave, I publicly thanked him for the publicity that he had given me and how he had built my audience.

After thinking about it, I feel the same way about Reddogs.

 

 

 

 

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, jackson said:

Joemo what do you mean by putting Jesus first ? How are we to know that either we or others are really putting Jesus first? Are we just to take each other's word for this, or is there a doctrine and pattern of beliefs and behavior l that must be adhered to  for this to be true?

 

Please define what you mean by "putting Jesus first". And, if we love Him, what is required of us?j 

Very probing and thoughtful question.  Hopefully, this won't get too long.

There are two ways people try to relate to their Christian faith -  pleasing God, or trusting Him.  When we strive to please God,we diligently study His Word for His commandments and do our best to submit to them to the letter.  Our denominational doctrines strongly influence the veracity of what we believe we MUST do to be saved.  When God doesn't respond as we expect Him to, we start wondering "what more must I do to obtain God's blessing and be assured of my salvation.  It tends to be a never-ending pursuit of perfection that we never reach.  We spend more time focusing on ourselves and who we are rather than Jesus' works and what He has already done.  Focusing on what WE must do is just another form of self-centeredness.  We set our own strategy (strongly influenced by denominational doctrine) on how to "get right" with God rather than let Him show us how.

On the other hand, if we trust God at His word - that He so loved the world that He gave us His one and only Son that whoever believes that He is who He says He is and did what He said He did will have everlasting life - and live from that viewpoint, we focus on Jesus rather than self.  As we focus on Him, we develop an increasingly intimate relationship; and we find that we are changing from the inside.  Things that once were nagging problems and besetting sins are just memories.  We start to feel God's spirit and "hear" (figuratively) God's voice.  Prayer becomes a conversation rather than a one-way wish list.  Will we still have issues? Probably; but rather than obsess over our shortcomings, we revel in our trust (belief) that Jesus indeed did a good enough job on the cross to save all of us who desire salvation and trust in His deliverance; and that through that deliverance we are reconciled to God. By trusting Him to show us the way to "get right" with Him, we are pleasing Him and trusting Him to show us His destiny for us rather than choosing our own path to righteousness.

So what if they currently go to church on Sunday or eat pork?  If they truly trust in Jesus, His Spirit will either change their path in this life, or they will trust His Word and happily grant His wishes as His loving children (rather than submit to his commands as His slaves)  in the next.  What they do doesn't change the path on which Jesus has led me.  I believe that He died to save me and them and all other humans (Christian or non Christian) who ever lived.

I can't say this would be true for everyone.  It is my own experience coupled with my spiritual world view. IMHO, our job is to persuade people to love Jesus (i.e., put Jesus first) before persuading them to be SDA's.   I saw that attitude at at TOP; and I liked it.

Gregory, I have only been to one TOP event; and your hospitality greatly enhanced my positive experience.  IMO, it was the most positive SDA event I remember attending.   If I have misrepresented TOP in any way, feel free to correct me.

[LifeHiscost]

 Salvation is a series of steps that take place over the lifetime of a person.   

When I accepted Jesus as Savior, from that moment until now, some 58 years later, I have been safe to save. None of that time can I say it was because of anything good I have done, for that would be nothing more than salvation by my work, no matter how good or righteous those actions might have looked to me or to others.

6For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment...Isaiah 64

That will not change until this happens.

…16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,….....2 Corinthians 5

We are all saved by works; however those works are works of God. We will all need justification until Jesus' work in and through us becomes fully ours at this time.

…52in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP in victory.…1 Corinthians 15

Then we will be wholly sanctified.

…29so that no man may boast before God. 30But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD.".....1 Corinthians 1

As one man chose to voice himself: 

When I look at myself, I cannot see how I can be saved. When I look at Jesus, I don't see how I can be lost.  

14"As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up; 15so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.....John 3

…11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life......1 John 5

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  Hope you all are having a  

[Gregory Matthews]

JoMo:   Excellent post.

Life:

We are all saved by works; however those works are works of God. We will all need justification until Jesus' work in and through us becomes fully ours at this time.

Good post.

[aka]

Out of the fulness of his heart spoke JoeMo the testimony of Jesus.

I was edified and blessed. He lifted up Jesus as our Lord is supposed to be uplifted.

 

Revelation 12:11

And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they loved not their lives unto the death.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

The following is a short selection from a longer piece that The One Project has circulated.  I post it to show to all a bit as to what The One Project is all about.  All to many of the critics simply do not know what they are talking about and they simply rely on 2nd and 3rd hand information that is not accurate--GM, 

 

"My dad survived chemotherapy and the subsequent bone marrow transplant required to overcome leukemia. I watched helplessly as the man who was my hero was reduced to a shell with every drop from his IV. He hadn’t felt sick, but his doctors saw the dangerous level of his white blood cells in his blood work . They knew that if they didn’t root out the cancer, bringing him to the brink of a controlled death with the chemo, he would surely die. The pain on his face was excruciating. There were moments where he even questioned whether life was worth the effort. All the while we trusted the physicians and their staff as they shared his blood reports and treatment plans. Minutes ticked into hours into days into weeks into months as the treatments, pills, appointments, fears, doubts, hopes, possibilities and probabilities mounted. Family and friends rallied in support with meals, caregiving, words of affirmation and hope. Together we traversed the treacherous road to recovery. Their openness and sincerity meant more than many of them realized. Seven years later my dad remains cancer-free. My reading of Scripture connects me to the healing IV directly. Somewhere, somehow I allowed a cancer to take over my heart. I don’t always feel sick, but the Physician sees it. His medicine attacks the misconceptions and human perceptions I have allowed to metastasize in my mind, breaks down the cherished cancer of selfishness and allows the Healer to begin His restoration. Hebrews 3 describes the Bible as a “living and active” organism.  The two-edged sword cuts surgically through the tangible and intangible, the secular and sacred, the rhetoric and reality. Jesus comes alive in the pages. Truth trumps triviality. Foundational beliefs hold fast because they are anchored deep in the character of Christ Himself. Slowly, excruciatingly, the process of renewal and rebirth begins. In the midst of the therapy and the bitter pills and the appointments with Jesus our family and friends rally in support along the exasperating and exhausting journey. So while the words “read your Bible and pray” still ring true, we must look for others to encourage and be encouraged by. “Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.” (Hebrews 10:23-25) Some of you have your own polyester pastors who make you question your ability to be a part of the body of Christ. Others battle pet positions or organizational rhetoric. Still others are crushed by hard lines and oppressive church boards. A few reading this may even be the polyester pastor, position ringmaster or belligerent board member. We are urged to confess our unwavering hope and stir up good works and love in each other. Continue showing up to the table. We cannot abandon the aristocracy or the rabble. Together we sharpen, change and strengthen each other. Now is not the time to walk away. It is the time to rediscover Jesus together and lift Him up. Stop blaming God for human mistakes. Help each other start the IVs of biblical chemotherapy and allow Jesus to perform the necessary surgery in all of our hearts. The pain of healing is worth the life you gain. How do you navigate the world/church relationship and remain a strong Christian? Read your Bible and pray . . . together. Aaron Purkeypile is assistant professor of accounting at Union College in Lincoln, NE. He is married to Kerri and they have a young son. Thank Aaron for sharing.

 

[Unity]

We are saved by works. Christ's works. Works of faith.

We aren't saved by works. Satan's works. Works of the flesh.

We can be perfect.  If we sin, then we apologize. But the grace we receive from being pardoned makes those who seek love will struggle for the self control that then leads to perseverance. The feeling of guilt is a tool that God uses. Guilt helps us focus on the need to reform. The guilt only becomes self-centeredness if we rid ourselves of it by stepping outside of God's standards.

Without denominational doctrines to define a minimum standards, and church governance to maintain it, a denomination will become divided. Congregations and conferences can't ignore those that publicly break those doctrines or teach that it is acceptable to ignore them. Their is a governance process for inspecting new light. Some will decide to not follow the decisions of those in authority above them and to teach others to also rebel by word and action, but they should realize that is what Lucifer did.

By this we know Him and love Him, if we keep his commandments.  And His commandments are not burdensome. The name of Christ isn't just a magical word we pronounce out of our mouths, it is His character. We know we have Christ's promise when we exhibit his character in word and action.

[Reddogs]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2015 at 8:12 AM, Gregory Matthews said:

Reddogs:  I cannot testify as to the truth of what you have personally experienced.

I can testify as to the truth of what you imply as applicable to The One Project and the implication is not true.

You mention how EGW was slowly muted and then taken away.  For years I attended a Sabbath School class at Boulder.  It was taught, on a rotating basis by a person deeply involved with TOP, who also preached sometimes.  In his SS classes (to include discussions when he was not in charge)  and in his sermons he frequently quoted/referenced/cited Ellen White.

This was a SS class that sometimes used the Quarterly and sometimes did not.  E.G.  On one occasion a book written by a well known SDA on the life and ministry of EGW was purchased and given to every person attending the class, with no expectation that they would be required to pay for it.  A chapter in the book was discussed each week.

The church that I attended is a congregation that  has classes that purchase SDA books and study them, chapter by chapter each week.  It also has classes that focus  on  the ministry and life of Jesus Christ as well as classes that focus on the 28 fundamental beliefs of SDAs.

It is a congregation that welcomes people to its services who are not SDA and may not be Christian.  The class that I attended typically has non-SDAs attending.  One of those non-SDA persons probably knows more about what Ellen White  has written than do some SDAs.  He regularly presents to the class his understanding of what she has written.  He has attended for several years.  No, he is not ready to become a member.  However, over the years that he has attended, we have seen the influence of the ministry provided him by the congregation move him along in his growing spiritual maturity.  He is further along in  his spiritual life than he was when he first began to attend.

I am certain that    if you were to attend you could find something to criticize, something that did not live up to your standards.  So, perhaps the Boulder congregation is not for you.  If so, please do not attend it.  Do not view its services which are streamed over the Internet. Rather associate with a congregation that is able to lead you spiritually.  May the Lord bless you on yo ur spiritual journey.  But, in the meantime I  will suggest that you devote your life and ministry to a more positive approach to leading others to Christ.  The time that you are spending in presenting an organization in a negative manner that does not represent the truth, in some aspects, is not helpful.  I do believe that Christ had something to say to those who came to him with questions about some who were working a bit differently than they were working.

The retired pastor still has a membership at the Boulder church, and giving us what is happening now. Its got the same elements as the celebration church I was at, of that I can tell you. Are they exactly the same, no, but when you morph or change your form you don't stay the same but the end purpose is still the same.

[Gregory Matthews]

I notice that you do not tell us the name of the retired pastor.

However, as a member of the Boulder congregation. I believe that I  know exactly who you are talking about.

He is a man who has devoted many years of service to God and the SDA Church.  He has contributed  much to the life of the church.  He has served his church as a pastor and as an evangelist.

He has been welcomed into the Boulder congregation and to its life and ministry.  He has served as a local advisor, officially, to the Sr. pastor.  He has had a Sabbath School class that was attended by more people than some, not all, other SS Classes.  As is typical for the Boulder congregation, he has been allowed to teach in his SS Class as he wanted to do.  His most recent series was on the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA Church.  As an ordained SDA minister, he has been encouraged to develop people for baptism and to baptize them as he saw fit.  NOTE:  Any  that he saw fit to baptize would immediately be voted into membership in the Boulder congregation.

He made a public announcement, which I personally heard him make to the effect that he was going to take a break from attending the Boulder congregation and would be attending another SDA congregation, but he intended to remain a member of Boulder.  Following this public announcement, pastoral leadership encouraged him to remain in the spiritual life of the Boulder congregation, to continue teaching his SS Class and to prepare people for baptism and membership.

He chose not to do this and he became regular in attending another SDA congregation.  As I  understand it, he is now a member of this other congregation and the Boulder Church has granted his membership transfer along with their best wishes for his continued spiritual life.

During the time that he was a member of the Boulder congregation he maintained an independent ministry that was helpful to individuals within the Boulder congregation.  I know this as my wife and I personally were, on occasion, involved in this to include financial support.  This ministry had nothing to do with his change in membership, or any other issues.

His SS Class on the28 Fundamental Beliefs is just one example of the false charge that seems to imply that Boulder does not teach our historic beliefs.  I am in a position where I could say much about the situation where he decided to leave the Boulder congregation.  I have personal knowledge that did not come from others  I am not going to come to this public venue and say something critical of a man who has devoted his life as he has.  This is not the place for that.  There are some situations that are sad for everyone and should not be a part of public discussion.  That is exactly where I am going to leave it.  But, it is clear to me that you, Reddogs, do not have a clear picture of the situation.  Your understanding of this situation is incomplete and in part probably false.  But, again, I am not going to clarify this for you as you really do not have a need to know.

It is simply sad, for him and his family who have been affected by this, for the pastoral staff of the Boulder congregation who attempted to keep him in its ministry and for congregational members--some of whom remained in Boulder and some who transferred to another congregation.

The bottom line is this:  While a member of the Boulder congregation he made a positive contribution to the spiritual  life and ministry of that congregation.  He has now moved to another congregation.  There is no reason to expect that he will not continue to contribute to the spiritual life of that congregation.  He remains a retired SDA minister.  The staff and members of the Boulder congregation wish him the best  in his life in that congregation.

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

A comment was made in an earlier post that an individual went to the Conference with concerns about The One Project and it was implied  that that individual and his concerns was dismissed by the Conference.

As in the above post, I am not going to get into a public discussion.  There are some situation that should remain private between involved individuals.  But, I am going to make a comment.  I am not going to say who the complaining individual was.  But, I have read an Internet posting that individual made as to his view of a meeting which included the Conference President.

In that meeting, the Conference President met for two solid hours with an individual who had concerns about The One Project. 

The Internet posting made by that individual thanked the President for that much time and for giving careful consideration to his complaints.  E.G.  The President did not dismiss them.  The complaining individual did not agree totally with the response that the President made.  He was not satisfied as to the results of that meeting.

Folks, there is often much more involved than the critics admit.

As to the person whom I think is referenced by Reddogs, that person did meet with the Conference and had the opportunity to present his complaints.

 

 

 

[Unity]

Inclusiveness for those in disagreement is often presented as evidence that the position of an opponent is invalid. But of course if anyone were teaching and practicing compromise with the world, then they would necessarily need to be inclusive of accepting those who teach and practice truth in order to not be visibly hypocritical. That both sides are accepted is to be expected as any child would otherwise recognize such hypocrisy far before they could verbalize it. It really doesn't mean anything and is only used to placate individuals who are not yet wise in that particular maneuver of the serpent. He will present himself as an angel of light.

Jesus prayed for his disciples, “That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us.” [John 17:21.] Just before, he said, “Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.” [John 17:17.] And he had given them the promise, “When he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth.” [John 16:13.] Through the Holy Spirit, Christ will open more clearly to those who will believe on him that which he has inspired holy men to write concerning the truth. And it is thus that the unity for which Christ prayed is to be effected. We are to receive sanctification through obedience to the word and the Spirit of truth. {GW92 391.1}

We cannot surrender the truth in order to accomplish this union; for the very means by which it is to be gained is sanctificationthrough the truth. Human wisdom would change all this, thinking this basis of union too narrow. Men would effect a union through conformity to popular opinions, through a compromise with the world. But truth is God’s basis for the unity of his people. {GW92 391.2}

[Gregory Matthews]

A comment on the retired minister whom Reddogs references:  If he is who I think he is, I know him well.  He and his wife have sat in our home and at our table.  He and I have discussed issues of interest to us.

 

 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

this thread is beginning to remind me of a poorly written plot to a mystery novel that even has Perry Mason and Sherlock Holmes yawningly waiting for the denouement...

[JoeMo]

On Saturday, December 19, 2015 at 8:03 AM, Unity said:

We can be perfect.  If we sin, then we apologize. But the grace we receive from being pardoned makes those who seek love will struggle for the self control that then leads to perseverance. The feeling of guilt is a tool that God uses. Guilt helps us focus on the need to reform. The guilt only becomes self-centeredness if we rid ourselves of it by stepping outside of God's standards.

 

Guilt is also a tool used very effectively by satan to discourage us from going boldly to the Throne in our time of need to obtain mercy and forgiveness.  "since we have a great priest over the house of God,  let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water" (Heb. 10:21-22).

[LifeHiscost]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Guilt is also a tool used very effectively by satan to discourage us from going boldly to the Throne in our time of need to obtain mercy and forgiveness.  "since we have a great priest over the house of God,  let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water" (Heb. 10:21-22).

22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 23For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass: 24For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.....James 1

Asking for and submitting to the control of the Spirit of God for the accomplishment of His will and repenting upon recognition when we fall short, allows God to do His work in our heart, especially when we recognize Jesus as our best Friend and admit when we fail to do as we are prompted.

2My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 3Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. 4But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.....James 1

There is a decided difference between temptation and sinful conduct. I recall the isolated time period when gaining victories came as a result of admitting I didn't really want to go in the direction Satan chose lead me. The love of Jesus was the deciding factor.

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

[Unity]

8 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

There is a decided difference between temptation and sinful conduct.

Yes, there is a difference between temptation and practicing sin.  Practicing sin is willful sin.

^{Hebrews 10:26} For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, ²⁷ but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. ²⁸ Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. ²⁹ Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

I am shocked how we as a Seventh-day Adventist church have a knowledge of the truth, and that truth shows us what sin is, but yet we allow open sin in our church. The example I gave earlier in this thread is that excuses are made for Sabbath breaking, but those excuses have nothing to do with the spirit of the law which states that an urgent need doesn't break the Sabbath commandment. The example was a SDA pastor having made prior preparation to take a cruise on a tour boat on the Sabbath of a TOP conference meeting, and then decided to sell his tickets on the TOP Facebook page.  Cruises and tours don't address an urgent need. That behavior was willful sin.  And TOP endorses that behavior and admits that anyone who reproves such behavior "will not enjoy it at the TOP conference"!

Grace is often a word I hear at church among those who teach that it isn't our job to judge open sin. However their definition of grace is an insult to the Son of God. They crucify Him anew.

However my words shouldn't be misinterpreted, as many of those who disagree with me are often wont to, to mean that they can't go boldly to the throne for mercy and forgiveness. However that pastor, and the TOP representative, must also apologize to the individual they offended (Matthew 5:23-24). 

11 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Guilt is also a tool used very effectively by satan to discourage us from going boldly to the Throne in our time of need to obtain mercy and forgiveness.  "since we have a great priest over the house of God,  let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water" (Heb. 10:21-22).

I have never met a SDA member who didn't recognize what you are saying.  Maybe at some time before I become a church member about a decade ago there were people who didn't recognize that. I have heard stories from some old life long members who seemed to have grown up in a time where minor faults were used to punish people and the fear of hellfire was supposedly spoken too much, but I haven't heard of such stories from recent times. Although I have personally experienced severe treatment and punishment over minor faults of my own from those same old timers. So maybe there was a time where we needed to hear more about not being discouraged concerning God's grace, but if that was the case that time is past. As far as I know they might just have projected their own behaviors onto others.  In any case, in these times the message of God's grace needs to come into balance with the message of God's law. In the next verse after the Bible quote you gave:

²⁴ And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works,

We need to be stirred up to good works. Not good works that are defined by individualism, or congregationalism, because then open sin will always have excuse to reign. Authority must come from somewhere, and that is well defined and explained in the first three chapters of the Church Manual. If individuals or congretations are allowed to usurp power beyond what is delegated to them by the Church Manual, then they are hypocrites to try to reign in the open sin committed by any members. Then the message we are trying to teach through our words and actions become obfuscated by a mass of confusion and contradictions. Someday we will become blind to the message of grace.

And yes we need to be stirred up to love.  But love comes from being sanctified. Sanctification is what leads us to love.

^{2 Peter 1:5} But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, ⁶ to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, ⁷ to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. ⁸ For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. ⁹ For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

[Johann]

After reading these accouunts I went to bed. During the night I saw in a dream how we had all been invited on a tour to some beautiful islands. There was much singing and rejoicing. Those who had purchased additional oil for the voyage could on Sabbath sail further to an island where there was a better connection so we were able to receive a greater blessing as we learned more about a rich relationship with our Lord. Those deriding the special Sabbath celebration were cut off from the special blessing and the enemy had easier access to those people with his temptations.

Why did I have this dream?

[Reddogs]

On ‎12‎/‎18‎/‎2015 at 1:58 PM, JoeMo said:

TOP may not be for everyone.  Personally, I like it and support it.  It's time we quit looking for ways to exclude those who don't believe EXACTLY like us; and be inclusive of all who put Christ first - regardless of their indosynchratic denominational quirks.  Are we called to make all people disciples of Christ or merely denominational SDA's?  I vote for the former.

Notice I said "PUT CHRIST FIRST".  I'm not saying we as Christians should include beliefs of non-believers; yet we should love and reach out to all ALL people regardless of their faith.  Jesus died for all men and women; not just historic SDA's.  He wants all to be saved.  Once a person falls in love with Jesus and is filled with His Spirit, that same Spirit can lead us into all truth without the help of our specific denomination.  Let people develop their own relationship with Jesus rather than forcing our peculiar doctines on them as a condition of salvation.

Well I like things that are not good for me being a diabetic, and no matter how its made or shaped, or presented, if it has sugar, it does damage to may body. The same may be said for the spiritual formation/Las Vegas format/rock and roll/come as you are even if you continue in sin, style of worship no matter by what name it is. I can walk in and recognize it no matter how they try to cover it up, and I guarantee you the church is not following after Christ, it is another.

[debbym]

To transition from my faith being in my head, to my faith being in my relationship to the world....  and in my relationship to myself as a sinner is a huge leap.

Jesus was holy yet fully identified with, and related to,  and deeply connected with every human being however deep in the suffering of sin.  Only In Christ and through Him can this happen in our lives.

Jesus wants to be the one who is seen and is experienced in our sinful hearts and in our communities, in the church and out of the church.  Enough of preaching to the sanctified choir.

Jesus pour himself out on a lost world,  full of prayer and loaded with the power of divine love.  We must take hold of heaven and let heaven take hold of us.  Let us live in God's presence on the Sabbath, and let God's presence in us reach out to the world all week long.  It takes power, and love to be available to enter into labor for the souls of postmodern contemporary society in all it's special wounds and conditions.

We Must have more of Jesus, His wisdom, tact, mercy, hope, His intimacy with His father. Of ourselves we can do nothing.

True spirituality is hated by the  sanctimonious. Jesus was hated for mingling with the publicans and the less than pharisaical. 

[LifeHiscost]

 We Must have more of Jesus, His wisdom, tact, mercy, hope, His intimacy with His father. Of ourselves we can do nothing.    

³⁹ You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.^{...... John 5}

^{God is Love!~Jesus saves!} 

[JoeMo]

On 12/22/2015 at 4:45 AM, Reddogs said:

Well I like things that are not good for me being a diabetic, and no matter how its made or shaped, or presented, if it has sugar, it does damage to may body. The same may be said for the spiritual formation/Las Vegas format/rock and roll/come as you are even if you continue in sin, style of worship no matter by what name it is. I can walk in and recognize it no matter how they try to cover it up, and I guarantee you the church is not following after Christ, it is another.

Reddogs, I wish I had your spiritual insight.  I just don't see it that way.  Just because it is your opinion does not make it true.  If you get a blessing out of the same liturgy that our church has held for the past 150 years, by all means continue in that path!  I don't particularly feel blessed with the same liturgy, music and sermon material with which I have been fed for over 50 years.  I believe there is more to my spiritual experience than being a tea-totalling, Sabbath-keeping vegetarian looking for people who are bigger sinners than I am so I can feel good about myself.  Suffice it to say that your revelation is not my revelation.  I have pretty strict spiritual standards; they're just not the same as yours.  God has me on a different "narrow path" than you, because we are two different people with different issues.  In the end, I pray that both paths lead to the Kingdom.

On 12/22/2015 at 10:34 PM, Unity said:

I am shocked how we as a Seventh-day Adventist church have a knowledge of the truth, and that truth shows us what sin is, but yet we allow open sin in our church.

Of course there is sin in the church!    Are you implying that, as a church member, you have eliminated all sin from your life?  If so, you are the first person to do so in 2000 years!  Since when does being a believer deem you free from temptation and sin?  If there was no sin, there would be no need for a Savior!  SInce when is the church a refuge for the saints?  I thought is was a place for sinners to come and meet Jesus and be saved.  If we didn't allow (indeed LOVE) sinners; there would be no one at church (except maybe you and reddogs).  Who of us is qualified to say one sin is worse than the next?  Any sin earns you death.  You are not consigned to a deeper death for breaking the Sabbath than you are for gossiping.  Sin is sin. Period.  We ALL need a Savior or we will die the second death. Period.