The SDA Church Knows What Spiritual Abuse is, And Never Commits it. ?

[teresaq]

Quote

....Or that situation is so normal to you that it doesn’t seem to fall into the abusive category at all. I would have never considered my childhood church spiritually abusive if I hadn’t have moved away. It was only when I was removed from the situation that I realized that what I had considered normal was actually harming me.

Inherently, the Church doesn’t like to admit when it has done wrong, which results in its members burying their hurt. Often, this pain becomes a wedge between God and His people, and I have met many people who have walked away from their faith because it had simply been beaten out of them.

While physical forms of abuse are easy to condemn, what we need to improve on is recognizing the subtle emotional and psychological abuse. This can be an endless list of things, for instance, deeming an action sinful based on church standards rather than biblical principle or questioning the depth of someone’s salvation.

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/its-time-address-spiritual-abuse-church

God is so good in that He is multiplying exponentially articles on this topic. When I first looked for it online about  I found one or two. A couple of years later and there was more. Now God is warning everyone. If we will hear and heed. If we choose to hear and heed.  Our choice as to whether we will look deep into our souls, or not.

This refers to one of the first articles I came across:

http://www.nacr.org/wordpress/4114/spiritual-abuse-an-interview-with-jeff-vanvonderen

 

[Aliensanctuary]

Churches, denominations, and religions can and do use and abuse their power to control their members, be it mind control, brainwashing, or interference in personal lives. As I see it, all religions are human-corrupted to some extent, especially the toxic, murderous ones.

We have seen how some religions/denominations require the wearing of certain clothing that make their members easily recognizable as belonging to that particular religion. Some man, or men, decided that the female members must wear certain hats or hair covering or clothing, while the men usually have far fewer clothing restrictions, except for suspenders, maybe.

In the Kingdom of YHVH there are no man-made religions with their arbitrary rules and controls, only obedience to the Laws that will keep us safe.

[Gregory Matthews]

People commit spiritual abuse.  People who do so may be congregational members.  They may be local congregational leaders and they may be ordained/commissioned denominational clergy and leaders.

Yes, it is valid to ask the extent to which there is something in denominational belief and practice that would cause one to suggest that a denomination is guilty of spiritual abuse.

In my personal opinion, all of the above can be applied to the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.

But, that does not mean that every case can be charged to the SDA Church.  In some cases it was simply the personal mental health issues of an individual that caused the abuse and the denomination is not responsible.  As I write I am thinking of a former SDA pastor who had personal issues.  The denomination took decisive action that severed him from pastoral leadership.

But, I am, as I write thinking of two other cases.  One was by a local congregational leader and the other by an ordained pastor.  In both of these cases, I will suggest, that there is some validity in alleging that the denomination had some blame, although in one case it is more evident than the other.

I guess, my point:  The SDA Church may have some responsibility for cases of spiritual abuse, but not in all alleged cases.

As to the SDA Church, and I suppose, all other denominations:  The present issue is how is the denomination relating to such cases.

It is probably moving a bit slower than some would wish.  But, major advances are being made in denominational policy which is working down to local congregations.  The congregation where I have my membership is taking major steps to protect people and prevent some types of abuse.  NOTE:  There are several types of abuse and prevention and protection has to  take place on several levels.

In addition, I have personally witnessed major steps in dealing with the people (often women) who allege abuse.  I am thinking now of a woman who alleged abuse by a pastor living a  bout 1,000 miles from where she lived.  The Conference where the pastor worked agreed to pay the transportation expenses of the woman and a companion of her choice, to travel to the Conference HQ to talk to the leadership.  NOTE:  They felt that under the stress of the situation she needed a companion to support her.

I think of another Conference President who immediately set in motion a fair process to hear the allegations of a woman who made the charge and to deal with the pastor accused.

NOTE:  My comments come from personal experiences in dealing with such situations and the women involved.

The above contrasts with a woman, a brand new convert, who became pregnant by a local Elder and was essentially drummed out of the church.  But, this  was many years ago.  We are doing much better now.

 

Are we perfect?  Not yet, in my opinion.  But we are doing better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gail]

Gregory, I suspect that you are talking about sexual abuse, while the OP mentions spiritual abuse. While there is some overlap, I wonder if we can get some clarification here.

I think that things are better than they were, say, a generation ago.

[LifeHiscost]

5 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

 

 

Are we perfect?  Not yet, in my opinion.  But we are doing better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Not to downplay the need for all to accept the responsibility rightfully needed by all individuals involved in any set of circumstances, I just finished listening to a song pointing out that the only thing in Heaven, we the redeemed will be able to point to as our contribution to being there will be the scars in Jesus' hands.

6"And one will say to him, 'What are these wounds between your arms?' Then he will say, 'Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.....Zechariah 13

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[LifeHiscost]

[Gregory Matthews]

Sexual  abuse is only one part of spiritual abuse.  The examples that I gave included more than sexual abuse.  Spiritual abuse is more comprehensive than just sexual and incudes much more.

[GayatfootofCross]

 

>

 

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/what-not-say-someone-who-has-been-hurt-church

God / Church

What Not to Say to Someone Who Has Been Hurt By Church

6 misguided responses to spiritual abuse.

 

image: http://cdn1.relevantmediagroup.com/sites/default/files/styles/node_author/public/user/picture-363379-1428428421.png?itok=JXnMTRE0

By Jonathan Hollingsworth

April 27, 2015

Jonathan is an author, a speaker, and a recovering radical Christian. He left college at age 20 to pursue a new life as a missionary in Africa. Runaway Radical is his first book.

A few years ago, I had my first experience with spiritual abuse.

Compelled to serve God in a radical way, I dropped out of college, gave away all my possessions and moved to Africa, only to be manipulated, controlled and taken advantage of by the leaders in the mission organization.

When I got home, my pastor gave me two options: I could either lie and make up a nicer-sounding story, or I could just keep my mouth shut. Either way, I was forbidden from telling the real story, inside or outside the church.

I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. It’s one thing to be abused by people you barely know, but it’s another thing to be betrayed by someone you trusted and looked up to. I was angry and depressed, and I fell away from church for the first time in my life.

Thankfully, some of my friends understood what I was going through. Others, not so much. But what I’ve come to realize is that Christians can be pretty bad at handling spiritual abuse.

Many of the responses below I’ve witnessed firsthand. In the past, I’ve even been guilty of saying a few of these myself.

Here are a few things not to say to someone who has been hurt by their church:

 

If you’re more concerned about the church’s reputation than you are about the abuse itself, you might have your priorities mixed up.

 

1. “No Church Is Perfect.”

Instead of empathizing with those who have been hurt by a church, some Christians go right into defense mode.

They might argue that the victim just had a “bad experience.” Or, they’ll say the Church is full of imperfect people who are “only human” and make mistakes just like the rest of us.

But can we agree that these excuses only distract from the problem? No one wants to be told to “focus on all the good things the Church does” when they’ve been hurt by one. It doesn’t matter how many thousands of people have been positively affected by a church or ministry. The good experiences don’t cancel out the bad ones.

2. “Are You Working Toward Reconciliation?”

The last thing a victim of spiritual abuse needs to do is go right back into the environment that hurt them in the first place.

If someone has been attacked by a dog, would you tell them to go back and risk getting bitten again? Christians who insist on reconciliation in the face of spiritual abuse are forgetting one important thing: Abusive people can’t always be reasoned with.

Not only is it dangerous to ask a victim to make amends with their abusers, it also puts an undue burden of responsibility on the victim to come up with a solution. It’s like saying, “They’re the ones who hurt you, but now it’s your job to make it right.”

3. “I Don’t Want to Gossip.”

If a pastor or staff member is mistreating someone in the congregation, it’s not gossip for that person to talk about it. In fact, it’s not even gossip for you to talk about it.

Imagine if you found out your brother-in-law was beating your sister. Would your first response be, “That’s none of my business”? The same way domestic abuse involves a whole family, spiritual abuse involves a whole church family. The abuse may have taken place in private, but that doesn’t make it a private matter.

As Christians, if we’re going to start taking spiritual abuse seriously, we need to stop comparing it to gossip.

4. “What are Non-Believers Going to Think?”

Have you ever read a headline about a Christian going public against a church or ministry and thought to yourself, “Is this providing a good witness?” If you’re more concerned about the church’s reputation than you are about the abuse itself, you might have your priorities mixed up.

As Christians, we can get so preoccupied with how outsiders view the Church that we put appearances before the truth. When we try to control the narrative, we substitute the reality of the Church for our own ideal of the Church. All we’re showing the world is that we prefer a false witness over a bad one.

5. “Stop Being so Bitter.”

People who have been hurt by a church have a right to be angry. Not only is anger an appropriate response to injustice, it’s a healthy response if it's channeled the right ways.

So why do Christians have such a hard time letting each other express negative emotions? Why do we always have to fish for some deeper spiritual problem like a root of bitterness or unforgiveness?

 

Not only is anger an appropriate response to injustice, it’s a healthy response if it's channeled the right ways.

 

The other day I heard someone put it this way: “Religion will molest you, then accuse you of being bitter about it.” Do you see the double standard? When victims react to being hurt by someone in a church, we treat them as though there’s something’s wrong with them. This is why abusers are so often exonerated. It’s easier to justify letting the abuser off the hook if both parties are “in the wrong.”

6. “Is This Worth Dividing the Church Over?”

How it might affect the congregation should never be the deciding factor in whether or not to expose abuse.

This one especially hits home for me. When I escaped my abusive situation in Africa, my pastor wanted to sweep the whole ordeal under the rug. My silence, I was told, was for the greater good of the Gospel. It wasn’t a suggestion—it was an ultimatum. If I didn’t keep quiet, he warned, I would bring division to the entire congregation.

One of the most effective ways to silence a victim is to fill them with a false sense of guilt. The victim is led to believe that talking is only going to make things worse, and whatever happens as a result is their fault.

Certainly, exposing spiritual abuse can divide a congregation. But that’s not a consequence of the victim talking. It’s a consequence of the abuse perpetrated in the first place.

There’s one thing that’s even more important than knowing what not to say to someone who has been hurt by church. And that is, to simply listen.

Read more at http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/what-not-say-someone-who-has-been-hurt-church#uHimt1z1VFGwfiEt.99

....................................

i wish all can see this!

and take it to heart

 

 

[GayatfootofCross]

from ..

 

 

 

Posted 17 Aug 2015 (edited) · Report post

It is with a heavy heart that I share the latest info of my friend who I mentioned on the 7th and 8th post on the 1st page.

As I said He posted the OP on my FB wall.

I have been sitting with this latest for a few days now.

Now the very elderly (he 80 something and she 70 something )couple who have reached out to him when he started coming into my Church has been banned from going to our Church for three months.

The elder man is being disciplined for sharing Non SDA approved DVD's. They have warned him before. 

I liken his stuff he shares as 8th Day Priest shares. Sabbath Keeping Advents Believers and not a call to leave the SDA Church or give tithes to another. Just differences of certain end time events.

But an Elder saw The elder guy give something to the Organist (another lifetime SDA of 70 years) and he got in trouble.

I know all parties very well.

My friend is extremely upset.

It is hard to back up a Church who believes it is their Job to lord over what people read and say to each other. It is unsustainable to boot.

We all share what kind of God we serve. Whether we know it or not.

As I said it is with a very heavy heart I share this.

I don't see any recourse.

My own dear Life Buddy is out of sorts over this. He usually is very calm and easy going. As a couple- I am the loud dramatic one.

We care deeply for this old couple. They live on the other mountain and it will be a hardship to drive down to the valley.

When you look at the inner workings of the people who make these kinds of decisions. Do we see Paul talking about cuttin out a member is as horrific as cutting of a body part or do we see people being controlling and offended rhat a church member don't agree 100 percent of everything they believe.

 

To me its a culture/self rightouse problem .. not Theological.

Jesus Himself spoke of it in Rev 3

 

This  all also makes us look more like a CULT.

 

OP reference and 7th and 8th post on 1st page.

 

God bless you all.

Pray for our Church.

We can't be going around kicking people out of Church every time people don't obey us. People heal in fellowship. Not out of it.

 

 

 

[Gail]

The article brings out good and challenging points. I wonder how much of what he says translates into ALL relationships of the believers, not just those they have within the church parameters.

[Stan]

The Church does not commit abuse, individuals do.

[Gail]

True; individuals in possession of powerful positions perhaps have more responsibility here.

[bonnie]

The 

5 hours ago, GayatfootofCross said:

 

 

Posted 17 Aug 2015 (edited) · Report post

It is with a heavy heart that I share the latest info of my friend who I mentioned on the 7th and 8th post on the 1st page.

As I said He posted the OP on my FB wall.

I have been sitting with this latest for a few days now.

Now the very elderly (he 80 something and she 70 something )couple who have reached out to him when he started coming into my Church has been banned from going to our Church for three months.

The elder man is being disciplined for sharing Non SDA approved DVD's. They have warned him before. 

I liken his stuff he shares as 8th Day Priest shares. Sabbath Keeping Advents Believers and not a call to leave the SDA Church or give tithes to another. Just differences of certain end time events.

But an Elder saw The elder guy give something to the Organist (another lifetime SDA of 70 years) and he got in trouble.

I know all parties very well.

My friend is extremely upset.

It is hard to back up a Church who believes it is their Job to lord over what people read and say to each other. It is unsustainable to boot.

We all share what kind of God we serve. Whether we know it or not.

As I said it is with a very heavy heart I share this.

I don't see any recourse.

My own dear Life Buddy is out of sorts over this. He usually is very calm and easy going. As a couple- I am the loud dramatic one.

We care deeply for this old couple. They live on the other mountain and it will be a hardship to drive down to the valley.

When you look at the inner workings of the people who make these kinds of decisions. Do we see Paul talking about cuttin out a member is as horrific as cutting of a body part or do we see people being controlling and offended rhat a church member don't agree 100 percent of everything they believe.

 

To me its a culture/self rightouse problem .. not Theological.

Jesus Himself spoke of it in Rev 3

 

This  all also makes us look more like a CULT.

 

OP reference and 7th and 8th post on 1st page.

 

God bless you all.

Pray for our Church.

We can't be going around kicking people out of Church every time people don't obey us. People heal in fellowship. Not out of it.

 

 

 

Can the constant condemning of the SDA church and it's members be considered it's own type of spiritual abuse?

[GayatfootofCross]

I was always taught that the Church means the People.

Us.

[bonnie]

It does,but it is not"us" that is condemned at every post. some make. It is those "others" .If only others(us) would accept the version of scripture as those making the constant  condemning remarks want it to be understood,all would be right with their world.

"Thank God,I am not like those self righteous hypocrites that don't believe what I want them to believe".

Many accusations of spiritual abuse are made by those that want scripture to read according to their lifestyle. Anything else is spiritual abuse by "those others"

[Stan]

Church means a number of things.

Building

Institutional leadership, i.e. corporation

The invisible body of Christ

etc etc

What do you mean by Church ?

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

if the elderly man was passing out non-SDA info at an SDA church facility, that probably wasn't such a hot idea...

[GayatfootofCross]

8 hours ago, Stan said:

Church means a number of things.

Building

Institutional leadership, i.e. corporation

The invisible body of Christ

etc etc

What do you mean by Church ?

well as Ive said ..

When I hear the word "Church"

i think of people.

There was a time I thought of the Building.

..of course the context in the way the word is approached always points to A direction of Building, Institution, Leadership, or non rulemaking Peers.

My Church (my local congregation)

verses the Bigger Body of People - The Church

.

I used to mow and weed and scrub toilets and clean windows (all those windows) of the building.

So I would definitely,once upon a time, think of the Building when hearing the word Church think of a building and its upkeep.

But.. maybe cause of the Jehovah's Witnesses in my life.it was pounded into me ..to think of PEOPLE.

( they would always correct me when I say "i'm going to Church".. "umm  ..your not going to a group of people u are going to a building" )

.

Teresaq started this thread ..and I think she means people.

And this article i posted a few posts up.. gave me more pointed solid hurts of well intended words that can cut deep ..by people.

Spiritual abuse is insidious and fluid and can be very very subtle in individual in fellowship in peer pressure,attitude and ego preservation, to congregational gossip or collective judgement or very loud and demonstrative and even promoted if not commanded by people and institutionalized as a creed.

All caused by the people.

When I was selling books as a very young man ..I met alot of EX SDA's who told me horror stories ( at the time ..the town i lived in had three Congregations inside the City Limits  and small bodies of Off Shoots not far ..and two SDA Schools (1-8 and 9-12) and an Adventist owned  Health Food Store and an ABC) . I represented the Church and they unloaded. Sometimes with bitterness and sometimes just plain hurt would pour out.

Me being so young and naive I didn't understand why Ever leaving the Church (institution theology people). And deep down in my heart I fretted and wanted to save them. Have them visit my local rural ultra conservative loving personable church( 10 miles outside the City limits). Then they would come back to God.

It was good to me!

Until... my secret was exposed ..My Church stopped seeing me as one of them.

It was like night and day in one week.

I became a missionary project or a castaway. And felt immediately outside.

Was that Spiritual abuse? Very insidious and fluid.

now ..Invite the people who used to go to church who had bad  experiences with the Church (People) to my Church (People)?

Someone to save ( Mission Project) or potentially write off (a castaway?)

no no no

I experienced first hand what others were telling me.

(of course ..deep with me since 12 i knew i would be rejected if found out..but it was also family friends and society in general it also applied to)

................................................................

Flashback a lil before the scandal...

Regarding about my approach to non christians in everyday knocking on doors. I never knew what was going to open the door and invite me in.

And me sharing so eagerly the Books of LIFE.. I would share a Bible Story or two (or many) to illustrate the books and maybe sharing a wonderful principle.

Sometimes the story would click in their eyes and other times had no idea what i was talking about.

I didnt know what to do with people who didnt know the Bible in my Ministry/Work.

uggh ..My youth combined with Naivete/Innocence/Idealism  .

 

In talking with a very successful Mother of Israel/Literature Evangelist about this she gave me a KEY to sharing JESUS.

 no matter how they act to me or make known or not make known any familiarity or understanding of the Bible or difference of theology..to still  treat them as Christians

That really helped with awkwardness on my part or them after.

Hoo Ray!

We all want to feel valued no matter what our religion or non religion.

Jesus is glorified in  people being loved on being held up as Gold.

The Glory of OMNI in serving wretched sinners and washing their feet and treating like they are already written down in the Book of Life.

 "But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons and daughters of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust."

the real test of Discipleship!

.

Jesus called out the Spiritual Abusers with the harshest words ever recorded.

He did that not cause He hated them

HE did it cause He loved them and wanting to save them from peril of Everlasting death and blocking..yes Blocking the Way to others.

yeee GADS!  what a crime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spiritual abuse Blocks JESUS.

That is the worst abomination we can ever do.

 

Paul called himself as the Worse of Sinners not cause he did worst than anyone else but cause he looked upon others as not so bad as himself.

To use His words "Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves" Phil 2:3

That was so attractive to the Churched marginilized.

To be treated as GOLD!

 

The Spiritual abuse of being looked down or less than..not measuring up to the Churches ideals or theology or class or wealth or social standing or reputation.

A missionary project or a castaway.. but not quite like Spiritual Equal.

We are all the same. We all are Sinners needing a Saviour. Every moment.

 the heart of every Spiritual abuse.

not fully realizing what God proved on the CROSS for self and others!

 

8 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

On 1/7/2016 at 5:31 PM, Gregory Matthews said:

On 1/6/2016 at 9:56 PM, teresaq said:

On 1/6/2016 at 3:47 AM, Aliensanctuary said:

 

 

 

 

 

 May the JOY of the LORD be Your Strength!

 

 

.

[GayatfootofCross]

BTW i think we are all guilty..

Knowingly or not knowingly.

It is one of the things that sinners naturally do.

To alienate or to take things wrongly

[teresaq]

Amen to that! But, both defensiveness and denial will never admit to it, nor look in one's own heart. And that perpetuates all forms of abuse.

Come Lord Jesus!

[GayatfootofCross]

28 minutes ago, teresaq said:

Amen to that! But, both defensiveness and denial will never admit to it, nor look in one's own heart. And that perpetuates all forms of abuse.

Come Lord Jesus!

soooo very ugly evil true

..

In Galatians 2 we find Paul loudly rebuking Peter!

Peter! the one who walked with Jesus face to face with all that glow they basked in.

Peter! the one who denied our LORD and wept bitterly!

Peter! the one who was restored in the eyes of the Disciples.

Jesus mentioned Peter by name to tell  PETER ..THE LORD IS RISEN!

And here is Peter self conscious givin into peer Pressure knowing full well it would alienate fellow Brethren who Paul won over to JESUS!

Peter! Whose Name was not taken off the Book of LIFE when he greatly sinned again.

Amen for all of us!

Paul actually states  what Peter was afraid of..

" ..he wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore because he was afraid of what these Jewish legalists, who insisted that circumcision was necessary for salvation, would say.."

 read Galations 2:12-13

I think right there really shares much of the underlying issues in our horrid Christian Culture.

To the Faithful high up ( Peter)

To the Body of Christ  being abused ( the Gentiles ) (as well as non Christians)

And How Somebody ( Paul ) had to openly denounce it.

 

[mike drop]

 

[teresaq]

Appreciated. :)

[GayatfootofCross]

Teresaq!

thanku for a platform where we can really share

..........................................................................................................

btw

i know you know what i mean by "horrid christian culture"

the one in the main stream with the means to carry sway over large people who's theology looks nothing like JESUS!

I have found only one elderly couple face to face (among many many saints  who also love Jesus) who understands how that is mirrored.

And ministers on the internet and their Followers ( some here).

I ache for real face to face safe transparent connective fellowship.

And so does my Bubby!.

The book SERVANT GOD gives a real glimpse of this JESUS ..helping look at the scriptures in a totally new way.

That is what i believe the true Christian Culture will be as the end of days draw nearer.

It is a Supernatural outer flowing of what is going on inside!

 

# God is too Good to us to have it any other way!

 

Btw

Paul made it an issue also to protect the tender new believers!

Isn't that ..alone ..........                       enough?

 

[GayatfootofCross]

16 minutes ago, GayatfootofCross said:

 

i know you know what i mean by "horrid christian culture"

the MANY  in the main stream with the means to carry sway over large people who's theology  and FRUIT looks nothing like JESUS!

I

 

Btw

Paul made it an issue also to protect the tender new believers!

Isn't that ..alone ..........                       enough?

 

 

i NEED A BETTER PROOFREADER

[bonnie]

8 hours ago, GayatfootofCross said:

soooo very ugly evil true

..

In Galatians 2 we find Paul loudly rebuking Peter!

Peter! the one who walked with Jesus face to face with all that glow they basked in.

Peter! the one who denied our LORD and wept bitterly!

Peter! the one who was restored in the eyes of the Disciples.

Jesus mentioned Peter by name to tell  PETER ..THE LORD IS RISEN!

And here is Peter self conscious givin into peer Pressure knowing full well it would alienate fellow Brethren who Paul won over to JESUS!

Peter! Whose Name was not taken off the Book of LIFE when he greatly sinned again.

Amen for all of us!

Paul actually states  what Peter was afraid of..

" ..he wouldn’t eat with the Gentiles anymore because he was afraid of what these Jewish legalists, who insisted that circumcision was necessary for salvation, would say.."

 read Galations 2:12-13

I think right there really shares much of the underlying issues in our horrid Christian Culture.

To the Faithful high up ( Peter)

To the Body of Christ  being abused ( the Gentiles ) (as well as non Christians)

And How Somebody ( Paul ) had to openly denounce it.

 

[mike drop]

 

Peter! Whose Name was not taken off the Book of LIFE when he greatly sinned again.

As Paul Harvey used to say ,"And the rest of the story" which some always conveniently leave out to promote their own agenda.

 

Where would Peter's name be written if he had continued to deny Christ? Or if he insisted that it really might not be a sin,you know some might even find his behavior holy.

Or if he continually pointed at "those others" that were not as christian as he thought they should be