The One Project & Paul

[Gregory Matthews]

NOTE: The name has been change to protect the innocent. 

 

For the past hour, and more, we had been discussing with Paul some services that he might be able to provide us in the home we had recently purchased.  As we reached an agreement on the services and the price, I turned to him and said:  Please keep in mind that we do no want you providing any of your services on Saturday.  Oh, you must be Seventh-day Adventists, he said..  I responded:  Yes, we are and I am SDA Clergy.  What do you know about SDAs?

 

Paul opened up and shared with us his story, in part.  He was raised SDA and graduated rom a SDA college.  His wife and children were committed, active, Adventists.  His business partner graduated from Andrews and is a former SDA who is presently writing a book on theological issues of interest to Adventists.  On an occasional basis, Paula attends a local SDA Church with his family.  Somehow, and Paul did not share, hurts happened and Paul no longer considers himself to be a SDA and he does not live by some of the standards.

 

As I looked at Paul, I said:  I would never push an agenda on you without your permission.  But, I think that you might be interested in a new movement that has arisen in the SDA church.  I then shared with him about The On  In his response he informed me  that it sounded like TOP was focused on exactly the reasons that he had once joined the SDA Church.e Project and how he might find on the Internet information about it.

 

In response I gave him a copy of FOR THE ONE and suggested that he might find it of value.  He looked through it for a moment and assured me thtat he would read it.

 

After he had left, my wife and I looked at each other dumbfounded at how God had led.

[Green Cochoa]

I'm sorry to hear that.  Truly.  "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, Green Cochoa said:

I'm sorry to hear that.  Truly.  "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

What a horrid, judgmental thing to say!   Until you have experienced a TOP gathering for yourself; you have no right to judge it or the people who participate in it.  Your way to salvation may not be the way for everyone.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

13 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

NOTE: The name has been change to protect the innocent. 

 

For the past hour, and more, we had been discussing with Paul some services that he might be able to provide us in the home we had recently purchased.  As we reached an agreement on the services and the price, I turned to him and said:  Please keep in mind that we do no want you providing any of your services on Saturday.  Oh, you must be Seventh-day Adventists, he said..  I responded:  Yes, we are and I am SDA Clergy.  What do you know about SDAs?

 

Paul opened up and shared with us his story, in part.  He was raised SDA and graduated from a SDA college.  His wife and children were committed, active, Adventists.  His business partner graduated from Andrews and is a former SDA who is presently writing a book on theological issues of interest to Adventists.  On an occasional basis, Paula attends a local SDA Church with his family.  Somehow, and Paul did not share, hurts happened and Paul no longer considers himself to be a SDA and he does not live by some of the standards.

 

As I looked at Paul, I said:  I would never push an agenda on you without your permission.  But, I think that you might be interested in a new movement that has arisen in the SDA church.  I then shared with him about The One Project and how he might find on the Internet information about it. .  In his response he informed me  that it sounded like TOP was focused on exactly the reasons that he had once joined the SDA Church.

 

In response I gave him a copy of FOR THE ONE and suggested that he might find it of value.  He looked through it for a moment and assured me thtat he would read it.

 

After he had left, my wife and I looked at each other dumbfounded at how God had led.

 

Wow, Gregory, that parallels a lot of how I came back to the church — not with TOP, but such a similar situation.  I just can't imagine God making an appointment for you and "Paul" that wasn't destined for good.

Happenings such as this just reinforce my belief that God has no boundaries or requirements that anyone needs to meet before He intervenes in their lives.

[JoeMo]

I was ready to leave the church when I joined CA several years ago after corresponding with one of the Moderators.  A person who no longer posts much engaged me privately on why I was leaving.  He went through the 28 Fundies with me; and I discovered that I had no reason to leave the denomination; just the SDA subculture culture I had been associated with.  I met some of the greatest, most open-minded, balanced SDA's ever on CA.  I also met some members of the legalistic subculture from which I was escaping; and found that many of them have great talking points and concerns as well.  I have to say that some of you out there saved me from leaving the church altogether.  I still wouldn't call myself the world's best Adventist (I have issues with the infallibility [err...I mean freedom from error] associated with EGW and disagree completely with some of her interpretations; and I'm not a Trinitarian.  But I feel more "at home" with Adventists than any other group.

[LifeHiscost]

8 hours ago, JoeMo said:

What a horrid, judgmental thing to say!   Until you have experienced a TOP gathering for yourself; you have no right to judge it or the people who participate in it.  Your way to salvation may not be the way for everyone.

¹¹ This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

¹² Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

¹³ Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus....Acts 4

6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....John 14

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!     Hope your Sabbath is a 

[Green Cochoa]

9 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

¹¹ This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

¹² Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

¹³ Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus....Acts 4

6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....John 14

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!     Hope your Sabbath is a 

Indeed, there is only one way to salvation.  Thank you for making this so clear.  The path to salvation is so clear that none need err therefrom.

Blessings,
Green Cochoa.

[LifeHiscost]

4 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

Indeed, there is only one way to salvation.  Thank you for making this so clear.  The path to salvation is so clear that none need err therefrom.

Blessings,
Green Cochoa.

My pleasure. As with you, I appreciate the peace of His presence and the more so when I see so many events indicating of His near return.

32"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; 33so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. 34"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.…Matthew 24

.....Prepare to meet your God, O Israel." 13For behold, He who forms mountains and creates the wind And declares to man what are His thoughts, He who makes dawn into darkness And treads on the high places of the earth, The LORD God of hosts is His name....Amos 4

God is Love!~Jesus saves!   May your day be Divinely fulfilling.

[Green Cochoa]

Mrs. White recommended John Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progress."  In it, many tried to take shortcuts to get into The Way.  People still presumptuously try this today.  If they can believe that "Jesus" did everything, leaving nothing for them to do, and if they can believe that "love" without "obedience" saves everyone, they have accepted one of the most specious lies of the devil.  The story of Pilgrim's Progress shows how things worked out for one of those who arrived at the heavenly gates having come another way.  Things did not end well for him.  He was cast out.  His name was not found in the Book of Life.

Those who are saved take joy in keeping God's commandments.  They do not try to find some "easier" or more agreeable way apart from that which God has prescribed.  They do not look for self-pleasing entertainments, but seek to bless others with their time and talents in the most efficient manner possible, knowing that the time is short.

I have found the Pilgrim's Progress to be very helpful in my own spiritual walk, and would like to recommend it as did Mrs. White.

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Again, as in apostolic days, persecution turned out to the furtherance of the gospel. In a loathsome dungeon crowded with profligates and felons, John Bunyan breathed the very atmosphere of Heaven, and there he wrote his wonderful allegory of the pilgrim's journey from the land of destruction to the celestial city. For two hundred years that voice from Bedford jail has spoken with thrilling power to the hearts of men. Bunyan's “Pilgrim's Progress” and “Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners” have guided many feet into the path of life.  {GC88 252.2} 

John Bunyan's books can be freely read online.  A particular character in his Pilgrim's Progress reminds me of those who have founded the One Project.

Blessings,
Green Cochoa.

[debbym]

i would add that obedience without love is useless....  faith that works by love brings the obedience of faith that comes from Jesus .

Without Jesus you can do nothing...

[debbym]

from Ellen White 1888 materials

underlining mine...

 

"The danger has been presented to me again and again of entertaining, as a people,
false ideas of justification by faith. I have been shown for years that Satan would work in
a special manner to confuse the mind on this point. The law of God has been largely
dwelt upon, and has been presented to congregations, almost as destitute of the
knowledge of Jesus Christ and His relation to the law as was the offering of Cain. I have
been shown that many have been kept from the faith because of the mixed, confused
ideas of salvation, because the ministers have worked in a wrong manner to reach
hearts. The point which has been urged upon my mind for years is the imputed
righteousness of Christ. I have wondered that this matter was not made the subject of
discourses in our churches throughout the land, when the matter has been kept so
constantly urged upon me, and I have made it the subject of nearly every discourse and
talk that I have given to the people." {1888 810.3}

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

 

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A particular character in his Pilgrim's Progress reminds me of those who have founded the One Project.

 

 

Left unsaid is which character reminds Green of the One Project founders.

I will remind all, that as I have posted multiple times in Club adventist.  Japhet, is the senior pastor of the Boulder Colorado SDA Congregation.  Their Sabbath services are streamed on the  Internet each week.  I believe that the past six months are available, but I could be wrong as to the exact amount.

Japhet does not preach every week.  Some sermons are presented by Interns AND SDA students, to include a college student.

 

[LifeHiscost]

If all would see the commandments (the Ten) as promises instead of orders from the Creator God, they could find peace in the performance.

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and Finisher of our faith.....Hebrews 12

All of the commandments that appear as negative are produced in the believer, by Him who keeps them through the inspiration of  the One Who says we can do nothing without Him. Every commandment that has a "not" in it has the Word "shall" in front as a definition of righteousness that is not of our own except as given by Jesus.

31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; 32and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free." ....John 8

…164Seven times a day I praise You, Because of Your righteous ordinances. 165Those who love Your law have great peace, And nothing causes them to stumble. 166I hope for Your salvation, O LORD, And do Your commandments.…Psalms 119

God is Love!~Jesus saves!

[Gregory Matthews]

Today it seems there is a growing belief in Adventism that by dwelling almost exclusively on the love of Jesus, searching souls will be more apt to find religion attractive.

You have missed the point, for many. 

For many, the love of Christ is the first step.  Following that, discipleship follows.  I have seen that practiced in many congregations.

In fact, that is what is practiced by many evangelists:  Convert and then disciple by the congregation.

 

 

 

[Green Cochoa]

55 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

You have missed the point, for many. 

For many, the love of Christ is the first step.  Following that, discipleship follows.  I have seen that practiced in many congregations.

In fact, that is what is practiced by many evangelists:  Convert and then disciple by the congregation.

However sincere and well-meaning such an approach may be, it is misguided.  First, Mrs. White tells us that the minister has a responsibility to teach his new converts about God's requirements, including that of tithing.  Secondly, we are living in a time when our message is that of the third angel.  What is the third angel's message? We find it in Revelation 14, starting at verse 9.

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 14:9      And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,  
 14:10    The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:  
 14:11    And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.  
 14:12    Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.  

The "commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus":  We are living in a time when virtually everyone should understand that God is love.  The lack in our society is in the behavior modification department.  God tasks His people with the duty of sounding a warning to those who do not keep His commandments.  That is the message of the third angel in verity: commandment-keeping.

Blessings,

Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

However sincere and well-meaning such an approach may be, it is misguided.  First, Mrs. White tells us that the minister has a responsibility to teach his new converts about God's requirements, including that of tithing.  Secondly, we are living in a time when our message is that of the third angel.  What is the third angel's message? We find it in Revelation 14, starting at verse 9.

1) New converts should be taught.  But, notice, in order to be a convert, one must have been taught of God's love for them, and have come to love God in return.

2) That teaching comes over a period of time.  It cannot come all at once.  I am reminded of a baptism that I witnessed in a Spanish speaking country.  A couple was baptized upon their conversion to Christ.  Over the next couple of years the local congregation actively mentored them in the Faith that we teach and the couple became what was quite conservative SDAs, which they were not at the time of their baptism.

3) We are living in a time where the evangelist who brings people (Hoy Spirit, of course) to accept Christ does/can not stay around to mentor them.  That evangelist must depend upon the local congregation to do such.

4) The One Project (TOP) has people attending their Gatherings from long distances from where the Gathering is held. It is designed to done thing, make Christ the focus of life and belief.  It does not baptize people.  Any baptisms and/or further teaching will only be done in a local congregation.

5) Who are the people who attend TOP Gatherings?  In actual fact, the majority are already baptized Seventh-day Adventists.  They have already been baptized.  They have already become members and joined the SDA Church.  They are not new converts.  They already know the SDA teachings on Daniel and Revelation.  They are coming to what is essential a revival.  Green's comment from EGW, as he cited her, pertains to new converts.  It is not related to the people who attend TOP Gatherings.  To apply her comment to such as TOP Gatherings is just another example of people taking EGW out of context and twisting what she said into something else.  Sorry Green, perhaps you have not understood the purpose of TOP Gatherings and that is the cause of your misuse of what she actually said.

 

  

[Gregory Matthews]

However sincere and well-meaning such an approach may be, it is misguided.  First, Mrs. White tells us that the minister has a responsibility to teach his new converts about God's requirements, including that of tithing.  Secondly, we are living in a time when our message is that of the third angel.  What is the third angel's message? We find it in Revelation 14, starting at verse 9.

Yes, the 3rd angel's message must be proclaimed today.  But, for some people, who have never hear the 1st and 2nd angel's message, they must come first.

 

[Tom Wetmore]

Reading the criticisms of TOP tends to confirm the ages old suspicion/criticism of Adventists by our fellow Christians that Adventism is a cult and not really Christian.  It is as if Adventists take the Christ out of Christian.   Maybe that is why we so much need TOP to reverse that. We have so easily lost sight of being Christ centered in all that we do and teach.  Adventists really do need to put Christ back into their religion - first, last, and always.   

Green and Jackson, widen your search of EGW's writings to see what she says about making Christ first, the center of our faith and life.  

[Green Cochoa]

Gregory,

Your last two posts here seem to have contradicted each other.  You cannot have your cake and eat it too.  Either the people have already heard these things, or they haven't.  Neither of your posts, however, properly disengages the church from its duty, according to Mrs. White.  What message of the Lord did she give us?  She told us nothing was to distract us from preaching the third angel's message.

She also said this:

"We shall receive the most fierce opposition from the Adventists who oppose the law of God. But, like the builders of the walls of Jerusalem, we should not be diverted and hindered from our work by reports, by messengers desiring discussion or controversy, or by intimidating threats, the publication of falsehoods, or any of the devices that Satan may instigate. Our answer should be: We are engaged in a great work, and we cannot come down. We shall sometimes be perplexed to know what course we should pursue to preserve the honor of the cause of God and to vindicate His truth."  {3T 574.2}  

 

I guess, by that, I must say I cannot come down from my work to enter this controversy further.  I can see that here on an "Adventist" forum, there is opposition to the law of God.   This has been foretold, but I wish it were not so, nonetheless.  

 

At the One Project meetings, speakers joined the movement in favor of women's ordination.  Contemplate the following from Mrs. White in relation to this:

"There is an increasing tendency to have women in their dress and appearance as near like the other sex as possible, and to fashion their dress very much like that of men, but God pronounces it abomination. "In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety." 1 Timothy 2:9.  {1T 421.3}  

"Those who feel called out to join the movement in favor of woman's rights and the so-called dress reform might as well sever all connection with the third angel's message. The spirit which attends the one cannot be in harmony with the other. The Scriptures are plain upon the relations and rights of men and women. Spiritualists have, to quite an extent, adopted this singular mode of dress. Seventh-day Adventists, who believe in the restoration of the gifts, are often branded as spiritualists. Let them adopt this costume, and their influence is dead. The people would place them on a level with spiritualists and would refuse to listen to them."  {1T 421.4}  

 

Women trying to be like men.  It is an abomination.  If people lack the discernment to understand such simple and straightforward matters, how can they be brought to see the more nuanced ones?

Consider some of the theologies of the One Project:

1. "Jesus. All."  -- But little mention is made of His law, only "love."  

2. Women's ordination -- This stands against three separate and clear votes of the General Conference in Session, our church's highest decision-making body.

3. We are saved by grace -- it doesn't matter who we are, it only matters who Jesus is.  But this contradicts the Bible.  God only saves His children, and one believes and obeys to be God's child.

4. The Investigative Judgment? -- I'm sure they don't take much stock in this belief.  Why not?

 

I may be wrong.  I've only read online the reports of others who have attended.  Please feel free to show me documentation that would counter any of these understandings.  And, if you want more information about the One Project, research the backgrounds of its founders.  "Him that hath an ear, let him hear."

 

Blessings,
Green Cochoa.

 

[Green Cochoa]

32 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Reading the criticisms of TOP tends to confirm the ages old suspicion/criticism of Adventists by our fellow Christians that Adventism is a cult and not really Chrisitan.  It is as if Adventists take the Christ out of Christian.   Maybe that is why we so much need TOP to reverse that. We have so easily lost sight of being Christ centered in all that we do and teach.  Adventists really do need to put Christ back into their religion - first, last, and always.   

Green and Jackson, widen your search of EGW's writings to see what she says about making Christ first, the center of our faith and life.  

Tom, it would appear, by your post, I should be sounding a rather different warning to the world.  "Warning! God loves you!"

Consider what Mrs. White tells our church:

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God has called His church in this day, as He called ancient Israel, to stand as a light in the earth. By the mighty cleaver of truth, the messages of the first, second, and third angels, He has separated them from the churches and from the world to bring them into a sacred nearness to Himself. He has made them the depositaries of His law and has committed to them the great truths of prophecy for this time. Like the holy oracles committed to ancient Israel, these are a sacred trust to be communicated to the world. The three angels of Revelation 14 represent the people who accept the light of God's messages and go forth as His agents to sound the warning throughout the length and breadth of the earth. Christ declares to His followers: "Ye are the light of the world." To every soul that accepts Jesus the cross of Calvary speaks: "Behold the worth of the soul: 'Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.'" Nothing is to be permitted to hinder this work. It is the all-important work for time; it is to be far-reaching as eternity. The love that Jesus manifested for the souls of men in the sacrifice which He made for their redemption, will actuate all His followers.  {5T 455.2}  

It is Jesus' love that moves His followers to go and sound the warning of the three angels' messages.  It would be unloving to refrain from giving this warning.

Consider yourself warned!

Blessings,
Green Cochoa.

[Tom Wetmore]

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It is our duty to preach faith, to present the love of Christ in connection with the claims of the law; for neither can be rightly understood without the other. In every discourse the love of God, as manifested in Christ, the sinner’s only hope, should be dwelt upon until the people realize something of its power and preciousness. If this is done as it should be, it will not be said of this people that they teach the law but do not believe in repentance, faith, and conversion. We want these subjects to be blended as God has blended them; then will the truth be presented in its completeness, not as a mere theory, but as a power that will transform the character. It will then be preached in demonstration of the Spirit and with power. Then those who have accepted the doctrines of the Bible will not be unfed; they will feel the vivifying influence of the Holy Spirit.—Gospel Workers, 227, 228 (1892). 

 

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In order to enlighten souls it is not necessary to bring up controverted points of doctrine, and thus create opposition. Christ is the center of all our faith and hope. Those who can preach the matchless love of God, those who with softened heart can lift up Jesus, and inspire hearts to give him their best and holiest affections, are doing a high and holy work. By diligence in canvassing, by faithfully presenting to the people the cross of Calvary, the canvasser doubles his power of usefulness. But while we present these methods of work, we cannot lay out an undeviating line, in which every one shall move; for circumstances alter cases. God will impress those whose hearts are open to truth, who are longing for guidance, and he will say to his human agent, Speak to this one or that one of the love of Jesus. No sooner is the name of Jesus mentioned in love and tenderness than angels of God draw near, and soften and subdue the heart. { HM August 1, 1893, par. 4 }

 

[Tom Wetmore]

34 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

Tom, it would appear, by your post, I should be sounding a rather different warning to the world.  "Warning! God loves you!"

Blessings,
Green Cochoa.

It is our duty to preach the Gospel.  That word of course means "Good News".  For a world that may doubt or have been terribly mislead about God, finding out that God does in fact love them is pretty good news, I would say.

Since you wish to rely on EGW for direction, search for what she says the 3rd angel's message is all about.  Here is a starting hint - 

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Several have written to me, inquiring if the message of justification by faith is the third angel’s message, and I have answered, “It is the third angel’s message, in verity.”—The Review and Herald, April 1, 1890. 

 

And then there is this - 

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“God so loved the world, that He gave His only-begotten Son.” He “sent not His Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through Him might be saved.” John 3:16, 17. The love of God embraces all mankind. Christ, in giving the commission to the disciples, said: “Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.” Mark 16:15. { 2TT 511.1} 

 

[Green Cochoa]

4 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

It is our duty to preach the Gospel.  That word of course means "Good News".  For a world that may doubt or have been terribly mislead about God, finding out that God does in fact love them is pretty good news, I would say.

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The third angel's message is the gospel message for these last days, and in no case is it to be overshadowed by other interests and made to appear an unessential consideration. When in our institutions anything is placed above the third angel's message, the gospel is not there the great leading power.  {CH 524.3}  

Blessings,
Green Cochoa.

[Gregory Matthews]

Green said:

Your last two posts here seem to have contradicted each other.

Not at all.  They do not contradict themselves.  I continue to stand by each of them.

I continue to say that you have missused EGW as I stated.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

On responding to Tom, Green said:

 

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Consider yourself warned! 

 

 

 

 

This is the type of personalization that Club Adventist requests that people not engage in.

It is perfectly proper for Green to advocate against Tom's theology and mine.  But, the above statement appears to me to be Green setting himself up as a judge of the person (Tom) and in a manner that I believe the Bible rejects.

It implies that Tom needed warning and that Green has properly accomplished the task of warning him.

Where is the Holy Spirit in all of this?  If God wanted to use Green to warn Tom, the Holy Spirit would have convicted Tom on Green's points and at the time of that conviction, Tom would have been warned.  But, Green dos not know whether or not the Holy Spirit has convicted him.  Only  God knows that and Green is not God.   On the other hand, if the Holy Spirit has not convicted Tom on Green's points, it can not be fairly said that Tom has been warned.  It may be that Tom needs to be so convicted.  It may be that Tom will be so convicted at a later time.  But, that will be the work of the Holy Spirit and Green cannot say that he has accomplished a task that belongs to God.