Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 27, 2016 Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2016 In talking on religious subject, I have often found that people misquote the Bible. They will claim that something exists in Scripture that does not. SDAs often do that with Ellen White. Their claimed passage simply dos not exist. I will sometimes have some fun and illustrate my point by making up a quotation that does not exist, but may sound good. When I do that, I always plant some clues in my alleged quotation that indicate that it does not exist. One clue that I always plant is to give it a citation from a book/chapter that does not exist. And I usually plant some others as I really do not want people to be deceived. In actual fact, I may go years between the times that I do it. So, I do not do it very often. On the rare occasions when I do it, I usually have a specific purpose in mind. Recently, in a post on rooting out evil, I wanted to illustrate how some who act as they want to root evil out (they are willing to do great damage by tearing out the entire eye) of others come across, I posted the following: <<Isn't Present truth as is stated in the following: <<<And it shall come to pass that in End Time I shall place you on the wall to stand as a Watchman. When you see a brother drawing near with a 2 x 4 protruding from his eye, perform necessary surgery, indeed tearing the eye out of its socket if necessary. - Matthew 29:17>>> At least that is how some people act.>>> NOTE: I hope this does not violate the rule that one cannot quote in this thread. I wrote the above and if I were to post my comment on it in that thread, it would be off subject. The clues that I placed in the above included the following: 1) Matthew only has 28 chapters. It dose not have a 29th chapter. 2) No one should imagine that a Biblical writer would comment on a 2 x 4. 3) My comment as to how some people act was a clue. 4) My purpose was stated in my opening comment about Present truth, which is a phrase that comes from the developing times of our denomination. My expectation was that all would immediately it that it was not an actual quote from the Bible. But, I have been surprised as to what happens when I do this. Probably the first time I did it was in a college English class, on a final test, in writing skills. We were given a subject and expected to write on it. It could be fictionalized. It could be true. We had freedom to expand and go wherever we wanted to go. As I recall, the subject was space travel and/or travel to the moon and whether or not it would be possible. In my essay I stated that the bible had something to say about such travel. In my citation, I made up a Biblical book that did not exist. Not only did it not exist in the Bible, but, it did not exist in any of the alleged Biblical writings that came from either the Intertestmental period or from the time following the death of Christ. Well, the two people who graded my essay got into a discussion on that quotation. The first, correctly stated that there was neither such a Biblical book nor such a quotation. The second argued that while I had gotten the actual citation wrong, what I said was actually in the Bible, it was just that the person grading my essay could not find it. I have learned some lessons from this, which involves why I very rarely do it. They include; 1) It may sound right, but that does not make it true. Just because people may think that the phrase <<cleanliness is next to godliness>> is in the Bible does not make it so. When I read (hear) an alleged quotation form either the Bible or EGW, I judge it in part t by whether or not I think it sound like it was written by the alleged author. But, when I check it our, I may find that I am wrong. 2) For whatever reason, people often get it wrong. That may be innocent, but it is still wrong. We (I) should be very careful as to what we (I) accept as being Biblical, or from another. that maybe true for any quotation. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 27, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted February 27, 2016 Green: Happy Sabbath, wherever you are. May it bring a blessing to you. Green Cochoa 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 (edited) My Sabbath is well past. It was not spent in church. Most of it was spent in direct medical missionary work with a patient who was in great pain. I hope it was a blessing to this not-yet-baptized individual. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Edited February 29, 2016 by Tom Wetmore No quotes allowed... phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 28, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted February 28, 2016 I imagine that you were blessed. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellen Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Occasionally I will refer to a chapter or text in the book Hezikiah. Well It sounds like a book! Martn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted February 29, 2016 Members Share Posted February 29, 2016 OK! Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 The quote, if I am allowed to call it such and use it in a post here (I don't know), that "cleanliness is next to godliness," is stated in those exact words in Ellen White's writings. Does that make it pariah for this thread? I guess I cannot establish the fact with real proof, given the strange rules here. Blessings, Green Cochoa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 1, 2016 Administrators Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Not quite a pariah here. Just dancing on the edge. I will allow it as a response to Gregory's point that the statement in question is not in the Bible as so many people may believe. ( See how easy it is to talk about a quote without using it?) The substance of the quote is not really the point but it is more of a highlighted example of his point. If you believe it is used by EGW, you can just give us the citation of where in her writings it is used and we can look it up if we feel a need to check it out. The same goes for any other source material that you feel you need to make you own point - just give the cite and the reader can look it up if they don't know it already by heart. (For example, if you are talking about John 3:16 I suspect most here wouldn't need to look it up...) And the same for responding to anther person already in the conversation here, You can introduce your comment by saying something like "Regarding Tom's last point..." If you are only focusing on one part of another person's comment, introduce your remark similarly by say something like, "Tom, when you are speaking of tigers, it reminds me of..." and go on to make your observation about tigers or what it reminds you of. It is quite like carrying on a real face to face conversation. I should hope you don't repeat everything another person has said to introduce your response. For the record, she does of course use it a number of times, interestingly in one article including the very point that Gregory was a making that it is not in Scripture. She also indicates it is not original with her either, noting that it is a maxim, or in other words a common or well known bit of conventional wisdom. She indicates it was apparently in the Jewish Talmud. One could suspect that it may have even pre-existed even the Talmud. But of course whether it was or not in the Talmud or EGW's writings was not Gregory's point. It is not Scripture even though many believe it is. Edited March 1, 2016 by Tom Wetmore Added content and corrections of typos... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 God helps those who help themselves. When God closes a door He opens a window. Money is the root of all evil hch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 Joe, Your first is in Ellen White {LP 267.1}, differing by a the word ONLY after the word THOSE. as in "God helps those ONLY who help themselves." Your third is a misquote of the Bible which indicates that it is the love of money that is the real source of evil. says "The LOVE of money is the root of all evil" (1 Timothy 6:10). Oops…there I go, breaking the rules again by quoting. But you made me do it! Blessings, Green Cochoa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 1, 2016 Administrators Share Posted March 1, 2016 (edited) Yes JoMo, those are also good examples of common statements that are believed to be Scripture, but really are not. The last one is close to saying of Jesus and a couple other verses of Scripture but missing an essential element that really does change the meaning significantly. Edited March 1, 2016 by Tom Wetmore correction... Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Tom Wetmore Posted March 1, 2016 Administrators Share Posted March 1, 2016 Green, I will edit your post to conform to the rules to show you how it can be done. (Also read my edited post above...) It really isn't all that difficult. Really. Think normal conversation... Also the point here is not whether it is in EGW's writings, but whether or not it can be found in the Bible. Quote "Absurdity reigns and confusion makes it look good." "Sinless perfection is such a shallow goal." "I love God only as much as the person I love the least." *Forgiveness is always good news. And that is the gospel truth. (And finally, the ideas expressed above are solely my person views and not that of any organization with which I am associated.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hch Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 there ONCE WAS A WATCHMAN ON A WALL Her message was mighty They heard the unmuffled call What to do they asked? Send her to Australia- Those poor backward folks need to hear the word too. And down under she went while the home office spoke so highly of her views and went about undoing as they choose without a second thought that their actions would come to naught. And when she was laid in lavender to rest they turned from her writings with zest saying Things only by the Bible will we test Away with the rest What? Nothing left? Quote His child Henry Bible student/Author https://www.loudcry101.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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