Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[hch]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

If one were to take your predictions at face value and follow where they lead you would indeed be predicting the hour. Like I said so far history shows a 100 percent failure rate for this kind of thing

Wanderer,

Since I am only sharing what I have found by prayerful Bible study, it is not accurate to label them as "my predictions" What truly amazes me is that so many folks are so against what is so clear to me from God's word. So quick to reject it and so slow to study it from God's word to see if those things are true or not.

[CoAspen]

So, if you and JoeMo are not talking about the same thing....what are you talking about? He gave you the correct location. Are simply goig to move it about to suit your 'prophecy'?

[CoAspen]

Quote

What truly amazes me is that so many folks are so against what is so clear to me from God's word. So quick to reject it and so slow to study it from God's word to see if those things are true or not.

You are assumeing they didn't study it. What will be your comment when they say they have studied it and can find no correlation with your results?

When ever someone disagrees with you, the comment is they haven't reallly studied or are blind.

 

[hch]

8 hours ago, CoAspen said:

So, if you and JoeMo are not talking about the same thing....what are you talking about? He gave you the correct location. Are simply goig to move it about to suit your 'prophecy'?

Some things are difficult to understand.

[hch]

8 hours ago, CoAspen said:

You are assumeing they didn't study it. What will be your comment when they say they have studied it and can find no correlation with your results?

When ever someone disagrees with you, the comment is they haven't reallly studied or are blind.

 

The Scriptures say that we have a more sure word of prophecy.

And in the Scriptures there are examples like Hananiah vs Jeremiah, and the Jews vs Jesus

With our historical insight, we can look back to see who was right and who was wrong in these instances

But on the eve of Christ's Advent, we'll have to wait a while longer before it is evident

who are the wise that understand and who are the foolish

But historically, it has been rare to find God in the majority opinion

Most often that which seems so wrong to the majority is exactly what God was trying to tell them

[JoeMo]

12 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

What truly amazes me is that so many folks are so against what is so clear to me from God's word.

 

4 hours ago, hch said:

Some things are difficult to understand.

So which is it?  Is it "so clear" or "difficult to understand"?  I don't understand (at least I can't see what your seeing) when I look at the Bible passages you have given as texts to study.

[hch]

16 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Hmmm. Whats that got to do with what I said about Russia? You give satan too much credit. I wonder what would happen if in our message we gave JESUS this much credit?

The discussion was...

On 9/19/2016 at 0:33 AM, The Wanderer said:

There has been trouble from/with Russia for many years now. That is certainly nothing new at all.

 

Satan is a masterful enemy. He is only too willing and able to confuse our understanding of Scripture.

My point was that Russia was trouble from the North in Daniel 11:44  "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many."

It is endtime specific and will get a severe reaction from Mr. Obama. And you said it was basically "nothing new under the sun."

[hch]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

 

So which is it?  Is it "so clear" or "difficult to understand"?  I don't understand (at least I can't see what your seeing) when I look at the Bible passages you have given as texts to study.

JoeMo,

Thank you. I have been studying this since before 1997 and have the big picture in my mind with numerous pieces to the puzzle and it comes together so easily. It is simple in some ways.

For instance:

Daniel 2 relates to the kings of Babylon. And their fall to the next king (Darius).

The translators sealed the meaning of Daniel 2 by translating the word that appears as KINGDOM in our English Bibles

instead of having it read kingly authority, realm, or reign as it does in Ezekiel.

"Thou (King N) art this head of gold and after you shall come another reign (your son EM) and a third reign from your land (ara is not inferior, it is earth the next time it appears in the text)"

Daniel 2 is commonly applied to the kingdom of Babylon. In Daniel 4 "Thou (King N) art this ...tree" uses the same terminology, but is applied to the king (reign) and not the kingdom. If it was applied to the kingdom, we would know that endtime Babylon receives a deadly wound that is healed, the sin problem is limited to 7,000-years, and so much more.

Daniel 7 makes it clear that the beasts depict kingdoms. Thus Daniel 7 enlarges and repeats Daniel 2 to include a kingdom application. But Daniel 7 begins with sea-beasts and Heaven disregards the sea-beasts to explain earth-kings.

Earth and sea are different. In Daniel 7, SDA evangelists make sea symbolic and earth literal. The same symbols are used in Revelation 13 Lion, Bear, Leopard, a beast with no description but its horns (2 instead of 7) -- sea and earth which are both symbolic. There is no difficulty explaining the meanings of the Lion, Bear, Leopard, and the sea, but the symbolic earth in Revelation 13 is not the literal earth in Daniel 7.  And the beast with no description but its 2 horns in Revelation 13 is not the beast with 7 horns in Daniel 7. There is a problem with our understanding.

That is evident when Heaven explains that the 4 beasts in Daniel 7 are earth-Kings and we immediately change the earth kings back to sea-beasts (kingdoms) and ignore Heaven's interpretation rather than to see that the translators did not understand the vision because it was sealed until the time of the end and the endtime meaning trumps the earlier meaning that was incomplete because it was written into the prophecy in the 1612 KJV before the prophecy was unsealed and opened after 1798-1844.

Knowledge has increased, but not everyone is increasing their understanding to keep pace.

That is the easy stuff. God sealed the vision in Daniel 7 and allowed the translators to use the word kingdom that did not align with Heaven's interpretation to allow Daniel 7 to remain sealed until such time as God unsealed the vision.

Chittim is a little more difficult.

Is God designating a location or designating the people that live in that location?

The location of Chittim is Cyprus. But the people that lived in Cyprus in Daniel's day were the Greeks. The Greeks conquered the know world all the way to Persia. So in the endtime are the ships from Chittim: from Cyprus or what had once been a Greek enclave? 

The Western Roman Empire broke up into 10 sections and the papacy's allies toppled 3 Arian kings in that area. The Eastern Roman 'Empire also broke up into 10 sections and the United States and its allies have fell 2 Islamic powers (Afghanistan and Iraq) in that area. Cyprus is in the former Western Roman Empire.

One question that I had to settle what is the 3rd Islamic power to fall? Cyprus is not a major power. It is Greek and Turkish not with a majority Islamic population and it is in the former Western Roman Empire. So at this point I look at Iran and compare the prophetic history of the toppled kings in the Western Roman Empire. Iran is in the former Eastern Roman Empire, it is Islamic, and it has been a thorn in the side of the USA for 30-years.

Hope that helps

[hch]

On 9/19/2016 at 4:04 PM, JoeMo said:

There is not a place in Iran called Chittim, but there is a place in SE Cyprus named Chittim.   Cyprus is in the Mediterranean Sea; Iran has no coastline on the Mediterranean.  Iran does have coastline on the Caspian Sea and the Persian Gulf; and has naval/military bases in those islands.  I Googled Cyprus-Iran, and could find no place in ancient history where Persians ever occupied Cyprus.

JoeMo,

It wasn't the Persians that occupied Cyprus, it was the Greeks from the Mediterranean that conquered Persia.  

[hch]

3 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

First of all; one would have to deny history that is well verified to hold your opinion re Russia. History shows many and constant conflicts between the US and Russia. Daniel 11:44 cannot be pinned down to a specific  geographical location such as your post  is trying to do.  A much better context than just one verse is needed as well:

 Even when just combining these two texts one can see there is no way to make it say "Obama" or "Russia." Because of verse 45 we can see that whatever is meant by "the north," it is destroyed. I think that is different from what you are saying, or am I a little out on that still?

The simple answer: much of the history in Daniel 11 is to be repeated (see SOP). 

But there is a specific endtime application to which the prophecy is speaking.

Daniel 11 begins with the 3 kings in Persia (Cyrus, Darius & Artaxerxes)

It ends with Christ standing for His people in 1844 (12:1 chapter divisions were added after it was written)

Thus Daniel 11:2 - 12:1 spells out the 2300-years from 457 BC to 1844.

In 1844, Revelation 10 kicks in "Thou must prophesy again" that is the 2300-year prophecy is to be repeated

Much of the history is repeated but not the time for the Angel (Christ) said "time shall be no longer" (2300 years no more)

Thus Daniel 11 repeats at verse 11:6 (in the end of years -- just past 1844)

The king of the north at that juncture is Great Britain (it kept the Ottoman Empire from collapsing in 1840) 

and the King of the South is France (It invaded Egypt in 1798)

And the daughter of the king of the South is the papacy (a woman is a church and France took control of it in 1798)

From there Daniel 11 can be followed to our day.

it took me years to find some of the historical events

A child's book "Caesar to Churchill" gave me a piece of the puzzle that I had prayed for -- ever so long.

And on another occasion the Lord directed me to the US passport site that tells what shots we need to go abroad.

And there it was -- a piece of history that had escaped my search for weeks.

Much prayer, books piled from the floor to the ceiling many times over and an internet connection that required hours of searching (8-18 hrs a day for weeks on end)

But God's promise is "seek and ye shall find" God is true to His word. 

Our superficial understanding of Daniel and Revelation is lacking, when we despirately need solid food

 

[LifeHiscost]

3 minutes ago, hch said:

The simple answer: much of the history in Daniel 11 is to be repeated (see SOP). But there is a specific endtime application to which the prophecy is speaking.

Our superficial understanding of Daniel and Revelation is lacking, when we desperately need solid food

 

4But you, brothers, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief. 5For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness.… 1 Thessalonians 5

I'm satisfied that text is referring to those who have become friends with Jesus.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!        

[hch]

7 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

4But you, brothers, are not in the darkness so that this day should overtake you like a thief. 5For you are all sons of the light and sons of the day; we do not belong to the night or to the darkness.… 1 Thessalonians 5

I'm satisfied that text is referring to those who have become friends with Jesus.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!        

LifeHiscost

That is true. The word of God also states:

Hosea 4:6  "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

So when the light moves if God's people do not continue to stay close to Him and remain in the light, they will be left in darkness and be in danger of being destroyed.

[JoeMo]

hch,

Thanks for you expository on Daniel.  I could actually follow your logic there.  Not that I agree with it (I am a futurist; not a historicist); but I could follow it.  I still fail to see how Obama fits into all that.  Rather than beat a dead horse, I'm gonna wait until after the election to see if O-bummer is still in power.  If he is, I'll buy your book.  If he's not, I anticipate that you will either issue a retraction or a revision of your current position.

[LifeHiscost]

5 hours ago, hch said:

LifeHiscost

That is true. The word of God also states:

Hosea 4:6  "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."

So when the light moves if God's people do not continue to stay close to Him and remain in the light, they will be left in darkness and be in danger of being destroyed.

Because the enemies of the gospel are constantly whispering insults and lies at individuals it only seems wise to me to be constantly reading the Word, that a person can not only know all of the Fathers' promises available for them but also will be able to identify without hesitation, the intrusive efforts to sidetrack the one(s) desiring the compassionate care of Jesus and His angel, as well as other members of the body of Christ who make themselves available for His purposes of mutual safety and security.

It appears totally evident that the Holy Spirit is being withdrawn from our world, and many who are alive today will still be alive to witness the reality of Jesus' return. Praise God!

…16Rejoice at all times. 17Pray without ceasing. 18Give thanks in every circumstance, for this is God’s will for you in Christ Jesus.… 1 Thessalonians 5

…19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! 21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints. Amen.…

Revelation 20

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[hch]

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

hch,

Thanks for you expository on Daniel.  I could actually follow your logic there.  Not that I agree with it (I am a futurist; not a historicist); but I could follow it.  I still fail to see how Obama fits into all that.  Rather than beat a dead horse, I'm gonna wait until after the election to see if O-bummer is still in power.  If he is, I'll buy your book.  If he's not, I anticipate that you will either issue a retraction or a revision of your current position.

JoeMo,

I understand your predicament. Sight vs faith. I'll pray for you.

[hch]

1 hour ago, The Wanderer said:

 

"See SOP" does not cut it. Have you ever looked up dictionary definition of that word?  The book of Daniel and The Revelation are about a people who know God and pass thst on to others. A bible based people. Nothing to do with Popes or presidents. This "people as shown in the Bible have nothing but testimonies of Christ in their heart. See 1 john 1:1-3

I did. lol

[JoeMo]

12 minutes ago, hch said:

I understand your predicament. Sight vs faith. I'll pray for you.

I also understand your predicament - fantasy vs. reality.  I'll pray for you.

[Martn]

30 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

your predicament - fantasy vs. reality

Almost all of religion (in all religions) is mere fantasy.

Not all of religion, of course, but almost all.

Which is precisely why the people trapped in that sort of thinking cannot be reasoned with.

It's fully obvious to everyone not trapped in it, but not to the one who is trapped.

[Martn]

4 hours ago, JoeMo said:

you will either issue a retraction or a revision

I'm betting on revision.

History shows us the people who do this will seldom if ever stop. They alter their position a little and then go right out and do the same thing all over again.

And again, and again, and again.

[JoeMo]

hch,

I stumbled on a book you may want to look at.  It's called "The Final Roman Emperor, the Islamic Antichrist, and the Vatican's Last Crusade" by Thomas Horn and Chris Putnam.  They made the same prediction that you made about Pope Benedict; and that Pope Francis may indeed be the last Pope.  I'm not saying I believe that; but you have some company in the prophetic world.

[hch]

4 hours ago, JoeMo said:

hch,

I stumbled on a book you may want to look at.  It's called "The Final Roman Emperor, the Islamic Antichrist, and the Vatican's Last Crusade" by Thomas Horn and Chris Putnam.  They made the same prediction that you made about Pope Benedict; and that Pope Francis may indeed be the last Pope.  I'm not saying I believe that; but you have some company in the prophetic world.

Where did you get your info that they predicted that Pope Benedict leave office? The online info that I read does not mention it. 

[LifeHiscost]

4 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Thst. Sop Thing alwayd makes me cringe. Lol. Glad u got a sense of humor ?

Just because this century has more sophistication as well as capacity for selling to one's own benefit, doesn't mean a loving God has decided we have no need for those closest to him, such as the prophets, to aid His faulty children in more recent years, Especially when taking this into consideration.

…29I know that after my departure, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock. 30Even from your own number, men will rise up and distort the truth to draw away disciples after them. 31Therefore be alert and remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.… Acts 4

BTW this below may prove to be of interest, especially as one sees the day approaching.

http://arstechnica.com/science/2016/09/scholars-use-x-rays-to-read-ancient-biblical-text-for-the-first-time/

…24And let us consider how to spur one another on to love and good deeds. 25Let us not neglect meeting together, as some have made a habit, but let us encourage one another, and all the more as you see the Day approaching. ..Hebrews 10

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  …    

[hch]

12 hours ago, JoeMo said:

hch,

I stumbled on a book you may want to look at.  It's called "The Final Roman Emperor, the Islamic Antichrist, and the Vatican's Last Crusade" by Thomas Horn and Chris Putnam.  They made the same prediction that you made about Pope Benedict; and that Pope Francis may indeed be the last Pope.  I'm not saying I believe that; but you have some company in the prophetic world.

JoeMo,

I researched it some more. They do say that they predicted the resignation of Pope Benedict before he resigned, so I am not the only one. But they did not use Bible prophecy to come to that understanding and they have not mention of President Obama's role in endtime events. In fact they have some strange connection to aliens and the supernatural world.

For every truth there is a counterfeit.

[LifeHiscost]

20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. Genesis

This above is a comment by Joseph and is an example helping to keep any wishing to follow the straight and narrow, from going overboard to keep themselves there. Much mischief could be avoided if we put our confidence in almighty God's care for us.

1 Corinthians 13:7

Love bears up under anything and everything that comes, is ever ready to believe the best of every person, its hopes are fadeless under all circumstances, and it endures everything [without weakening].

 

Isaiah 41:10

Fear not, for I am with you; Be not dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you, Yes, I will help you, I will uphold you with My righteous right hand.’

 

G'day mates!

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves!

[JoeMo]

hch,

I haven't read the book yet; I just read the little sample on Amazon.  I didn't say I believed what was in the book; I just thought it was interesting that the authors had arrived at the same conclusion (concerning popes at least) as you did.  That being said, I will likely read the book; it comes highly recommended by many people whom I respect.

As far as their " strange connection to aliens and the supernatural world", you must be referring to their dreams and visions.  Didn't EGW have dreams and visions?  Yes.  Was she connected to aliens - no.  Was she connected to the supernatural world?  Yes (arguably).  Were other prophets in the Bible connected to the supernatural world? Absolutely.  A connection to the supernatural world could be a gift of the Spirit; not a bad thing.  Just because they didn't mention Obama or reach the same conclusion you reached by a different method doesn't mean they are wrong.  Why are you so hesitant to even consider others' viewpoints?