Are the three Angels' Messages Dead or Alive?

[Martn]

On 7/7/2016 at 4:03 PM, Martn said:

 

The three angels' message (one message, three-four messengers) is so very much more than conventional SDA thinking will allow its people to see.

The glory of the message is so bright it hurts their eyes. It pains them, so they do not want to see it.

No amount of evidence will ever convince them, therefore. We cannot shine new light in old lenses (put new wine in old bottles) without cracking them.

It is enough for those who see the light to say what they see. And don't worry about the many who scoff at what is said.

Await the few who also see, uniting as they hear others say the same. Flow together, and then the movement will attract interest.

The message is about God. The true nature of God. Versus idolatrous concepts of God, like the trinity and twinity popular among Adventists today.

 

 

 

 

[Martn]

On 7/10/2016 at 6:23 PM, JoeMo said:

What particular sect of Judaism do you come from?

Presently I'm exploring Renewal, within the Orthodox stream.

A Jew from birth, born and raised, I began instruction with my grandmother, my mother's mother.

After she passed, I went my own way awhile. But, train up a child, and when he is old..., so here I am again.

An older brother, my father's firstborn son, was Mormon, and that's where I went for many years.

The Mormon idea that we can all be Gods, exactly like Jesus and the Father, made sense to me. Yet, something always seemed missing in the idea.

Until I came across several newspaper articles where the author explained that Joseph Smith had been, and remained, a unitarian. I looked into this and found that indeed he was, until the day he died.

So why aren't (most) Mormons today unitarians?

Because most are not Temple Mormons. Even the ones who are, aren't for the most part progressed very far.

There are higher teachings in Mormonism, such as reincarnation and unitarianism, not revealed to most because they aren't ready and able to hear such things.

Joseph Smith revealed that God, beyond God, is pure Spirit, pure Intelligence. This Great Spirit, embodied in all who are called God, is the one and only true God, the God of Israel. The Father and Son are called God --and so are many, many other Fathers and Sons before them, throughout the omniverse-- because God's Spirit (the First Father, First Parent) is in them, and not because they themselves actually are God.

When I heard this, I remembered my grandmother taught me the very same thing years before. But she wasn't Mormon. She was Jewish. The Jews have always known this.

Pan-en-theism (as opposed to pantheism) is a Jewish idea. Today we find it, for the most part, among very Orthodox Jews, but two or three centuries ago, it was the majority position. Only with the rise of Jewish humanism (religious atheism, actually) has the concept been lost sight of by many.

Remarkably, the only other people on earth with this same idea, for the most part, are North American Native peoples. Though we can find traces of it in Hinduism, Greek philosophy, Eastern Orthodox Christianity, and Sufism as well.

[8thdaypriest]

The angel's message is: "Fear GOD and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." 

So we are trying to define "God".  Who is God?  Is "God" one or two or three divine beings?  The Greek word translated as "god" simply means "divine being". 

There is no command to worship the "spirit".  So if "God" is the always existent, all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present "spirit" that Martn believes in, the lack of any command to specifically worship, or glorify, or serve, or pray to this  "spirit", seems strange. 

Jesus words to the woman at the well come to mind. 

NRS  John 4:23-24 "But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

It looks to me, like the supreme "God" IS "the Father".  The Father then gives of His spirit. 

Luke 11:13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (NRS)

This agrees with Paul.  1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (NRS)

God the Father has only one "begotten" Son - "brought forth" from Himself.  He has many created (and sub-sequentially indwelt) "sons". 

Proverbs 8:24-30  "When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth -- 26 when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world's first bits of soil. 27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, 28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 30 then I was beside him, like a master worker; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, (NRS)

I believe that God the Father BEGET a Son in His exact "image" before He created anything.  That begotten "son" then became the agent of His Father in creation, mediation, and redemption.

Proverbs 30:4 "Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name or His son's name? Surely you know!" (NAU)

The "hour of His judgment" is the hour of HIS judgment - the judgment is handed down by the Ancient of Days. 

The "Ancient of Days" presides as judge, at the judgment of Daniel 7:9-10.  The "son of man" is brought before HIM.  That makes "the son of man" the defendant.  He is the one being judged.  The outcome of this judgment?  Dominion of this earth is given to "the Son of man".  He then will execute judgment upon those who have opposed him - namely Satan and all his servants.

"The hour of His judgment" is that day when the Son of Man is brought before the Ancient of days.    On earth - the Little Horn will be making war with those who "keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus".  The Little Horn may actually be standing "in the holy place", demanding worship.  That "hour" has NOT YET ARRIVED. 

 

 

[hch]

21 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The angel's message is: "Fear GOD and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." 

Is this angel speaking of the Judgment Hour of the dead, living, or dispensing of God's Judgment?

 

Quote

So we are trying to define "God".  Who is God?  Is "God" one or two or three divine beings?  The Greek word translated as "god" simply means "divine being". 

There is no command to worship the "spirit".  So if "God" is the always existent, all knowing, all powerful, everywhere present "spirit" that Martn believes in, the lack of any command to specifically worship, or glorify, or serve, or pray to this  "spirit", seems strange. 

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth" John 4:24.

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" (Genesis 1:2)

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (Genesis 1:26)
 

Quote

 

Jesus words to the woman at the well come to mind. 

NRS  John 4:23-24 "But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

It looks to me, like the supreme "God" IS "the Father".  The Father then gives of His spirit. 

Luke 11:13 If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!" (NRS)

This agrees with Paul.  1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist. (NRS)

God the Father has only one "begotten" Son - "brought forth" from Himself.  He has many created (and sub-sequentially indwelt) "sons". 

Proverbs 8:24-30  "When there were no depths I was brought forth, when there were no springs abounding with water. 25 Before the mountains had been shaped, before the hills, I was brought forth -- 26 when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world's first bits of soil. 27 When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep, 28 when he made firm the skies above, when he established the fountains of the deep, 29 when he assigned to the sea its limit, so that the waters might not transgress his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 30 then I was beside him, like a master worker; and I was daily his delight, rejoicing before him always, (NRS)

I believe that God the Father BEGET a Son in His exact "image" before He created anything.  That begotten "son" then became the agent of His Father in creation, mediation, and redemption.

Proverbs 30:4 "Who has ascended into heaven and descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has wrapped the waters in His garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name or His son's name? Surely you know!" (NAU)

 

"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art My beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased" (Luke 3:22).
 

Quote

 

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, He shall testify of Me" (John 15:26).

The "hour of His judgment" is the hour of HIS judgment - the judgment is handed down by the Ancient of Days. 

The "Ancient of Days" presides as judge, at the judgment of Daniel 7:9-10.  The "son of man" is brought before HIM.  That makes "the son of man" the defendant.  He is the one being judged.  The outcome of this judgment?  Dominion of this earth is given to "the Son of man".  He then will execute judgment upon those who have opposed him - namely Satan and all his servants.

 

"For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself; and hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man" (John 5:27).

"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22).

Quote

"The hour of His judgment" is that day when the Son of Man is brought before the Ancient of days.    On earth - the Little Horn will be making war with those who "keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus".  The Little Horn may actually be standing "in the holy place", demanding worship.  That "hour" has NOT YET ARRIVED.

 

 This will take a post for itself

 

[Martn]

23 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

There is no command to worship the "spirit".

John 4:23-24 "But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such as these to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth."

It looks to me, like the supreme "God" IS "the Father". 

 

The Spirit is also called Father. Though in the Spirit's case (without form or gender) a better word, in our language at least, would be Parent.

This is such a new idea, to most SDA's, and so although the distinction between the two is in fact very clearly and repeatedly stated, probably it would require a great amount of discourse, over quite some length of time, to demonstrate sufficiently that not one, but two Fathers of Jesus are presented in Christian scripture.

One being the Spirit (First Father), the only true God, Father of all Fathers, and the other being Jesus' own personal Father (Heavenly Father), one of many heavenly fathers, of many heavenly sons, on many heavenly worlds.

The One is repeatedly described as being usually without form of any sort. While the other is repeatedly described as having bodily form just like Jesus.

Though worship is directed (for we ought never to worship anyone other than God), the Spirit in fact does not desire worship. This is not the kind of relationship God truly desires with us. God wants friendship, companionship.

Worship is for our benefit, not God's benefit. Until we mature enough to where we no longer need it and find instead the better relationship with God.

[hch]

21 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The angel's message is: "Fear GOD and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." ...

"The hour of His judgment" is that day when the Son of Man is brought before the Ancient of days.    On earth - the Little Horn will be making war with those who "keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus".  The Little Horn may actually be standing "in the holy place", demanding worship.  That "hour" has NOT YET ARRIVED. 

The Scripture you quoted "the hour of His judgment is come." Is followed by your conclusion "That "hour" has NOT YET ARRIVED."

Since the Scripture states that it IS COME and you contradict the Scripture by asserting that it "has NOT YET ARRIVED"

1) Is the Scripture right?

2) Are you more right than the Scripture that you contradict?

3) Do you understand what the Scripture is saying?

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10)

"And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be" (Revelation 22:12).

 

[8thdaypriest]

51 minutes ago, Martn said:

The Spirit is also called Father. Though in the Spirit's case (without form or gender) a better word, in our language at least, would be Parent.

This is such a new idea, to most SDA's, and so although the distinction between the two is in fact very clearly and repeatedly stated, probably it would require a great amount of discourse, over quite some length of time, to demonstrate sufficiently that not one, but two Fathers are presented in Christian scripture.

I agree. 

Isaiah 9:6 "For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (Isa 9:6 NIV) 

Jesus is our "Father" because he created everything.  But He has a Father (and God by the way).  God the being that most called "God the Father" is in fact our divine Grandfather.  In Hebrew there was no such word as "grandfather", so he is simply called "Father".  [Incidentally - when I pray - I call Him Grandfather.  I call Jesus LORD, which means "master".]

God the Father (of Jesus) is the "head of Christ" (I Cor. 1 Cor 11:3).  He is also the "God" of Jesus Christ (Rev. 1:6, Rev. 3:13 were written many year after Jesus returned to the Father's right hand.). 

[8thdaypriest]

56 minutes ago, hch said:

The Scripture you quoted "the hour of His judgment is come." Is followed by your conclusion "That "hour" has NOT YET ARRIVED."

Since the Scripture states that it IS COME and you contradict the Scripture by asserting that it "has NOT YET ARRIVED"

1) Is the Scripture right?

2) Are you more right than the Scripture that you contradict?

3) Do you understand what the Scripture is saying?

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10)

"And, behold, I come quickly; and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work shall be" (Revelation 22:12).

 

In vision, John HEARD the angel giving the message.  John was also shown many things which had not yet taken place.  Why is it not possible that John also "heard" a message which had not yet been given?  John did not "hear" a year or date. 

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, Martn said:

The Spirit is also called Father. Though in the Spirit's case (without form or gender) a better word, in our language at least, would be Parent.

This is such a new idea, to most SDA's, and so although the distinction between the two is in fact very clearly and repeatedly stated, probably it would require a great amount of discourse, over quite some length of time, to demonstrate sufficiently that not one, but two Fathers are presented in Christian scripture.

One being the Spirit (First Father), the only true God, Father of all Fathers, and the other being Jesus' own personal Father (Heavenly Father), one of many heavenly fathers, of many heavenly sons, on many heavenly worlds.

The One is repeatedly described as being without form, of any sort. While the other is repeatedly described as having bodily form just like Jesus.

Though worship is directed (for we ought never to worship anyone other than God), the Spirit in fact does not desire worship. This is not the kind of relationship God truly desires with us. God wants friendship, companionship.

Worship is for our benefit, not God's benefit. Until we mature enough to where we no longer need it and find instead the better relationship with God.

"God IS spirit" (John 4).  Therefore - when HE beget a son in His "express image" (meaning an exact copy) - that "begotten son" was also "spirit".  This is how HE could be everywhere present. 

Is it not also possible that God (the Father) and His Son, could take on form - in order to be seen and heard by finite created beings?  A photon is the smallest unit of energy.  It also has mass.  Spirit (pure energy) could take on mass.   

[Martn]

13 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Jesus is our "Father"

Literally our father, I believe. "The first" and "the last" Adam both, Alpha and Omega. We are the next generation

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, Martn said:

Though worship is directed (for we ought never to worship anyone other than God), the Spirit in fact does not desire worship. This is not the kind of relationship God truly desires with us. God wants friendship, companionship.

Worship is for our benefit, not God's benefit. Until we mature enough to where we no longer need it and find instead the better relationship with God.

I totally disagree here.  Worship IS for our benefit - yes.  It defines who we are.  I do NOT believe that finite created beings will EVER reach a place where we no longer need to worship God.  The prophecy of Isaiah 66 does not anticipate such a time, when human beings will no longer worship the LORD.

Isaiah 66:22 "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, says the LORD; so shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 From new moon to new moon, and from sabbath to sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the LORD. (Isa 66:22 NRS)

[hch]

11 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

In vision, John HEARD the angel giving the message.  John was also shown many things which had not yet taken place.  Why is it not possible that John also "heard" a message which had not yet been given?  John did not "hear" a year or date. 

Rachel,

The three angels' messages first appear in Daniel (4, 5, & 6)

They repeat in Revelation 14.

And they repeat again in Revelation 18.

After those thing that were prophesied in Revelation 18 had taken place, the Scripture is fulfilled: "the hour of His judgment is come." 

The fulfillment of Bible prophecy contradicts your conclusion "That "hour" has NOT YET ARRIVED" because though "John did not "hear" a year or date," the events are so clearly presented, that the time of the fulfillment of Revelation 18 is confirmed by recent history.  

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, hch said:

Is this angel speaking of the Judgment Hour of the dead, living, or dispensing of God's Judgment?

Rachel:  This is a judgment OF Jesus Christ, not of other human beings.  It compares with the convening of an earthly "court" to hear the judge hand down his verdict. 

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth" John 4:24.

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" (Genesis 1:2)

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness" (Genesis 1:26)  Yes - the Father said to His Son - "let us".  Doesn't imply three divine beings.

"And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven [the Father's voice], which said, Thou art My beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased" (Luke 3:22).  

We agree that the dove shape was the holy spirit - poured upon Christ.  Who did the pouring?  Answer:  His Father.  Jesus said, "The Father who dwells in me, does the works" (Jn 14:10).   Jesus said His Father was "with" Him, and "in" Him, and gave Him direction. 

"For as the Father hath life in Himself; so hath He given to the Son to have life in Himself; and hath given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of man" (John 5:27).

"For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son" (John 5:22).

OK - Father and Son.  Father GAVE to His Son - to have life in Himself.  Father COMMITTED all judgment to His Son.  Neither of these verses implies the existence of third divine being. 

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, Martn said:

The One is repeatedly described as being usually without form of any sort. While the other is repeatedly described as having bodily form just like Jesus.

    Revelation 4:11 [To the One who sits on the throne] “You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created.”

I don't see in this verse, another divine intelligence (the Spirit) existing before "the One who sits on the throne".  In this verse, the One who sits on the throne, IS the source of all life.

[Martn]

17 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Is it not also possible 

As stated, a great amount of discourse, over quite some length of time, is needed to demonstrate the many levels of Fatherhood in Christian scripture. I'm quite sure it would not be tolerated.

[8thdaypriest]

Just now, Martn said:

As stated, a great amount of discourse, over quite some length of time, is needed to demonstrate the many levels of Fatherhood in Christian scripture. I'm quite sure it would not be tolerated.

Martn, you might be surprised at the level of "discourse" that is "tolerated" here at CA.  The primary RULE is civility.  If a poster starts calling someone else a "false prophet" or a "liar" or such, THAT will get him shut down.  Profanity is also not "tolerated".  But open discussion of ideas.  Yes!  This forum exists for many reasons.  One of those reasons is for ideas to be challenged - even those today called "fundamentals" by devout SDAs. 

My website is prophecyviewpoint.com.  At my website there is a series on the nature of God - specifically why I do NOT believe our God is a Trinity of three divine beings.  I also do NOT believe our God is one divine being who manifests in three ways. 

I believe that God our Father beget another divine being - out of Himself - in His exact likeness.  That being incarnated into the womb of Mary, becoming Jesus the Christ.

[hch]

3 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

OK - Father and Son.  Father GAVE to His Son - to have life in Himself.  Father COMMITTED all judgment to His Son.  Neither of these verses implies the existence of third divine being. 

The three angels' messages is the focus of this thread.

I replied to an anti-Trinity post (by showing that the Father was present in Heaven, the Holy Spirit was present as a dove, and Christ was present on earth) which makes the point that the hour of God's judgment is also an hour to allow people to judge the reliability of God's word (the Scriptures). If the Scriptures are not rightly divided, God will be viewed in an erroneous light.

[8thdaypriest]

16 minutes ago, hch said:

Rachel,

The three angels' messages first appear in Daniel (4, 5, & 6)

They repeat in Revelation 14.

And they repeat again in Revelation 18.

After those thing that were prophesied in Revelation 18 had taken place, the Scripture is fulfilled: "the hour of His judgment is come." 

The fulfillment of Bible prophecy contradicts your conclusion "That "hour" has NOT YET ARRIVED" because though "John did not "hear" a year or date," the events are so clearly presented, that the time of the fulfillment of Revelation 18 is confirmed by recent history.  

I disagree hch.  Which is OK.  I'm giving my opinion (based in Scripture), and you are giving us your opinion.  You can quote EGW - sure, but that will just tell us that your opinion agrees with her. 

Your post tells me that you believe "the hour of His judgment" began on October 22nd, 1844.  I understand that belief - very well.  I just do not share it - for many reasons.

[8thdaypriest]

2 minutes ago, hch said:

The three angels' messages is the focus of this thread.

I replied to an anti-Trinity post (by showing that the Father was present in Heaven, the Holy Spirit was present as a dove, and Christ was present on earth) which makes the point that the hour of God's judgment is also an hour to allow people to judge the reliability of God's word (the Scriptures). If the Scriptures are not rightly divided, God will be viewed in an erroneous light.

I agree.

[Martn]

53 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Isaiah 66 does not anticipate such a time, when human beings will no longer worship the LORD.

Hosea 2:16, 17--

In that day you will call me your Mate and no longer call me your God, for I will remove the names of God from your mouth.

Exodus 33:11

[Martn]

42 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

IS the source of all life.

All the life in this realm, of course.

There are other realms.

[8thdaypriest]

3 minutes ago, Martn said:

Hosea 2:16, 17 --In that day you will call me your Mate and no longer call me your God, for I will remove the names of God from your mouth.

Exodus 33:11

I couldn't remember that wording from any translation I'm familiar with. 

CJB  Hosea 2:18 "On that day," says ADONAI "you will call me Ishi [My Husband]; you will no longer call me Ba'ali [My Master]. 19 For I will remove the names of the ba'alim from her mouth; they will never again be mentioned by name.

Israel (the 10 Northern tribes) had been worshiping Baal.  ADONAI would remove the names of the Baals (false God's) from the mouth of those who returned to Him.  And - of course  - in the NT, the New Jerusalem becomes "the bride" of Christ.  Paul says we are "betrothed" to the one who rose from the dead. 

 

At Mt Sinai, Israel entered into a covenant of marriage with the LORD.  That LORD - the one mediator - was the preincarnate Son of God. 

Isaiah 54:5  “For your Maker is your husband, The LORD of hosts is His name; And your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel; He is called the God of the whole earth.”

    Jeremiah 3:14 “Return, O backsliding children,’ says the LORD; ‘for I am married to you.”

    Jeremiah 2:1-3 “Thus says the LORD: I remember you, the kindness of your youth, the love of your betrothal, when you went after Me in the wilderness . . .”

    Jeremiah 31:32 “‘the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.’”

 

Subsequently, Israel committed adultery.  Jeremiah says the LORD gave to Israel (the 10 Northern Tribes) a "bill of divorcement" because of this "adultery".  

Jeremiah 3:8  “Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.”

    Isaiah 50:1 “Thus says the LORD: ‘Where is the certificate of your mother's divorce, whom I have put away? . . . And for your transgressions your mother has been put away.’”

 

Still later:  Judah was widowed when her "husband" died on a cross.  A "wife" is released from "the law concerning her husband" when that husband DIES (Rom 7:1-4). 

No part of the original Israel was still "married" to her LORD.  This situation necessitated a NEW (marriage) COVENANT - with Israel.  

Hence we who believe are now "grafted in" to Israel and "betrothed" to "the one who rose from the dead" (Rom. 7:4). 

    Jeremiah 31:31-33  “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD.

[8thdaypriest]

14 minutes ago, Martn said:

All the life in this realm, of course.

There are other realms.

My NT just says "You created all things."  It doesn't say "all things in this realm. 

CJB  Revelation 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven, on earth, under the earth and on the sea - yes, everything in them - saying, "To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb belong praise, honor, glory and power forever and ever!"

Only TWO beings are praised here. 

[Buzzards]

On 7/5/2016 at 5:29 PM, hch said:

How do I get rid of this ???)(*&&^%^ Quote box

 

On 7/12/2016 at 4:16 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

The angel's message is: "Fear GOD and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come." 

Is this angel speaking of the Judgment Hour of the dead, living, or dispensing of God's Judgment?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

John speaks not of those in the Grave; but those Dead in trespasses and sins

in Matthew he says

Matt.13:41

The Son of man shall send forth his angels,

and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend,

and them which do iniquity;

And shall cast them into a furnace of fire:

there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

This is an SDA Board; you know that " a furnace of fire" is not hell,

it's God letting them reap the reward of what they have chosen

there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

that is "Hell on Earth" Posters

ye shall be hungry, but my people shall eat, etc, etc, etc

Rev. 18:6

Reward her even as she rewarded you,

and double unto her double according to her works:

in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

 

[Martn]

18 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

ADONAI would remove the names of the Baals (false God's)

"Baal" is also a Hebrew word, not just a pagan word, for God.

"You will no longer call ME Baali" is what the text says.

The word, in this instance, is therefore in reference to our God.