What makes God real to you?

[debbym]

how can you judge your mom? distaste for religion is not the same as distaste for God.  I can't imagine thinking myself so much like God that distaste for me would equate distaste for God.  Jesus and God have been so poorly represented i think few who think poorly of those words and names know enough of the genuine personages  to have an informed opinion of them by those experiences.  was your mom kind.  if a stranger needed help did she care?  not all have the same gift.

it is a sad commentary on the religious world, though i imagine it is richly deserved.

yet there are individuals who are shining beacons of light by their walk with God and they are not necessarily religious people.  i honestly don't think Lot was a religious man yet he sat by the gate watching for travelers coming into town to protect them, well knowing the dangers.  only God can see into the heart and  what the heart response was to the light given and if they would love heaven or not.  if you would not want enjoy heaven god would not force it on you.  He is too kind.

[JoeMo]

My hope is somewhat based on what I believe to be personal encounters with God.  I mentioned earlier about my "God experience" after my oldest son died.  A while later, after a prolonged stressful period of being jobless and on the verge of hopelessness, I was on a walk having a pity party.  A sparrow flew up and landed beside me, and just walked with me for about two blocks.  When I would stop, he would stop, and just look up at me.  When I came home, he walked up the driveway with me, and jumped on my shoe and started playing with my shoelace.  Then he jumped up on my head and sang for a while.  Then he flew off.  I couldn't help but think about "his eyes are on the Sparrow".

A little more than a year after that, after an extended painful illness and surgery, my wife was despairing, and wanted a sign from God that she would get better,  The next day - Christmas morning, we got up to find a bald eagle standing on our back porch looking into our slider, wings wide-spread.  That was enough of a sign for her.

I believe that we often don't see God working because we don't look for it; or we narrow our vision to look for things only that we have prayed for to turn out in accordance with our expectations; rather than let God get a little "creative" with a solution to our problems.  Sometimes we may think a potentially supernatural event was just a weird coincidence.

Bottom line, I have hope because I believe I have witnessed things that only God could arrange.  Not always to my liking, but God's workings nonetheless.  This all is just my opinion and experience.  I'm not trying to diminish the tribulations in anyone else's life.  I still have some pretty adverse situations I'm facing in my life.  But I also have faith or hope that this is all temporary; and that one day I will be with my Savior and this will all go away.

Someone above said tribulations are also sent to show us our strengths.  Good word!  I agree.  Unless we die prematurely, most of us may have to face the worst tribulation in the history of the planet - even worse than the flood.  It would be nice to know our strengths and weaknesses before that time comes.

[GayatfootofCross]

1 hour ago, debbym said:

 

I wasn't judging my mom.

I don't think you understand at all what I was saying..

 

[GayatfootofCross]

..Well

Closer to the Truth of the matter I never convey my thoughts well in type.

That is my fault.

I think its better that I leave my own personal heartaches and disappointments relating to what the church did to me growing up and how it manifested to my FAMILY.

I was so gullible.

I was being real with George in mind about disappointments or things not working out how we think it should.

Thank you Debbym.

As I said earlier.

Others can be authentic.

I cannot.

So back to my favorite things to talk about.

This love of GOD!

 

God thinks the best about people.

[GayatfootofCross]

3 hours ago, JoeMo said:

 

Thank you.

I cant imagine losing a child. I have one boy who is turning  34 soon enough and just got married.

Maybe I will be a Grandpappy someday all dressed in Orange!

Oh to find comfort in God's presence. In His love and concern!

I am so happy you took the lil things in your life as a sign.

You are right! We don't always see it.

I have heard over the years of other Saints seeing God in animals and birds.

Our pets.

I never thought much about if I had such an encounter.

But very recently what came to mind was something that happened long ago.

I was leading a double life. Selling books by day and going to gay bars at night.

I started drinking and smoking again.

And I remember driving home  after a night of riotous living and a giant white bird flew low and up the  front of my windshield.

Maybe the full moon was out cause it was so bright in my eyes,

My car  didn't touch it. It was elegant the way it graced up looking like it didn't have a care in the world.

Was it a dove? It was about  half the size of my windshield. Wings so wide! on the drivers side right in front of me. Almost like slow motion.

I don't know to this day.

It was strange ...I took it as an omen of my impending doom.

I thought i was gonna die that night. God giving a sign ....taking away His Holy Spirit.

I had a terrible picture of God back then.

Waiting in anticipation to gleefully throw me aside.

In the last few years and esp. in the last few months my image of God has been changing.

Not quite a Universaliist cause of choice ... but I swear God is in the business of Saving more than what I was taught.

Much more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have been taking great comfort in that.

When I had that early memory visited it was with God's presence.

Changing into something more true to His character,

He was reminding me He was still with me at my worst.

Still in love  with me.

I really didn't think He loved me even when I was a goody goody. I was working so hard on myself to try to get Him to like me.

Thank God I'm still not auditioning anymore.

God is so good. It is so important to see Him that way with whatever is going on.

Thank you for your Testimony.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gail]

I would like to believe that we all do the best we can with what we have. Certainly our corporate view of God has changed over the years, for the better, I believe; more positive and loving.

I have often regretted things said or done, and feared that the impression I left as someone who identifies with Lord Jesus did not rightly represent what I understand to be His character. Thankfully, God judges righteous judgement on the heart and not as we see.

[GayatfootofCross]

That made me laugh out loud!

unexpected  comment

.

Orange

Bow Tie

Top Hat

Cane

Gloves

Cape

and Spats!

[debbym]

i heard your review of how your religion affected your relationship to your mom, but i still heard your judging, and perhaps that was inclusive of the religiosity of that season it seems you made it current.  God takes all these things into consideration.  He knows our smallness and does not judge us, and i am certain, in His loving ways he does all he can to strengthen every right impulse and whatever response we have to the Holy Spirit.

however we are influenced by those around us, we still are not automatons, we are collections of strengths and weaknesses, and we are God's precious ones who ever we are.  we don't need to beat ourselves up.

[GayatfootofCross]

1 hour ago, debbym said:

•  
•  

I wasn't judging my mother.

As I've said You heard wrong.  .

I was judging myself.

Someone here earlier today.. told me this isn't the place to bare one's soul.

Shame on me.

I already knew that.

 

[GayatfootofCross]

39 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

 

Wow!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Gay, your post didn't strike me as judgmental of your Mom at all. 

So there's that.  

[GayatfootofCross]

9 hours ago, debbym said:

 

i drive myself crazy trying to put my thoughts in type.

besides my bad spelling and poor grammar ..i look down when i type and look up and it dont make sense and spend time correcting myself and forgetting what i was just trying to say

i also type in the dark with no cap light and my gay pinky hits cap and i have to back up and delete so it doesnt look like im yelling

It takes work to even cap the the first letter of my sentences. cause i have no cap light lol
my mind goes a million miles an hour while i struggle typing with one chicken beak
i can debate in real life, not with type
I can tell a good story in real life.
not here. they dont even make sense when i read it to myself and actually scrap the whole thing and just say a few words when i want to say more.
i leave out words and even a sentence thinking i already type it.  in my fast mind its already said
it sometimes explain my tortured syntax and  inconsistent uses of words that i use switching past present and future in this case.
if u wanna do some footwork..go to past lengthy posts in the archives  and you will see it misses so many marks
recently in one thread i said i was a universalist and i didnt notice till much later
i corrected it.
but most of my posts or threads i start I get no traction or response so  there ya go.
i just leave it.
releasing it and try not to tie myself in a bun wanting to control everything
not caring if they think im joking or serious or being to melo dramatic
maybe that's why people scratch their heads and say nothing.

in the wretched post about my mom hating God one i left out the words." I became morose "
and should have conveyed a
"what if"
and stated out loud  my spiraling down thinking accompanying the news and shock afterwords

I thought it showed

as i was typing i was emotionally going down a dark place as i iunfolded,
i put myself out there
resonating with a thing i saw on the power of becoming vulnerable and authentic in dealing with life and faith and things not working out they way we think it should
seemingly anyways
 God becomes vulnerable with us every moment.(that's another thread i would love to talk about)
i guess no one could tell i was exposing my fragile heart in all this
no one commented on that part.
just my "judging" part it seemed

I only can say My mom hated God... That was always made clear .. I will not go into detail on how that showed up all her life to me or to others.

when i type upbeat things my heart is warmed in that moment..sometimes so much i could just burst!
and conversely when i type upsetting things i feel it at that moment and can get caught up in that too.
it works like that when i talk also

I should have been in the theater.

My mom had that dream for me.

And herself.

and seeing my wretch post  again ..i would have made myself more clear on how appalling it was to me  looking back how i considered my mom as a missionary project that the church taught me to look upon people outside the church
but i definitely didnt want to wax on about that here.
i just put a crying face instead ;'(

i was taking the blame and shame if my mom wasn't saved,

Gail understood where I was coming from from what i see in her post..
No one else said anything. Or had the chance to as of yet.

..so many of my posts here have been about me seeing God different than i use to.

I grew up thinking he hated me. That was made clear to me at age 12/13. I bristle seeing that to this day.
.
there are many posts here i wish i reworded or added more details.
in my head they are there and even when i proof read i dont catch it..
im a melodramitic talker ..not a good writer
On fb i correct things I said many days later cause i would just not see it for a few days.
here i have ten minutes and cringe many times and end up thinking at my own posts.
"whatever" ..just like a few  readers do im sure

....
a little side note here on how i share
I think i take up too much of peoples time when i get longwinded
and leave parts out.
if inquired ..i dive deeper..
if summed up wrongly or misunderstood...
i feel i have no place to go in sharing and cannot defend myself.
im taking a great risk defending/clarifying myself here and now.
since i have a hard time conveying my intent
i usually make it worse
esp with people who have a jaundice eye.
it is hard to gather my bearings when i feel misunderstood

..if somone inquired i would have shown a different mood sharing how my sis and i comforted by the thief on the cross story and i would have waxed on How God saves billions,
which dont get much traction or agreement in other places on this forum

 

[GayatfootofCross]

28 minutes ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

 

Well thank you my Dear for saying that.

I was so upset I came off that way in that post.

I used to judge her like i was taught to -SHE NEEDED TO BE SAVED! .

But in the last few years I found a God that doesn't judge her or me. He just loves!

And agonize I couldn't get my mom to see this wonderful God i found as of late,

She closed me down along time ago.

I'm shattered I exemplified the wrong GAWD!

Now my mom is dead and it's too late.

thats what my post was about

 

[debbym]

1 hour ago, GayatfootofCross said:

 

 

Yes, this black and white words is such a narrow limited communication, trying to make words say what words cannot say.  i think it is really only about 1 percent of  what we are thinking and feeling when we try to communicate in writing. you expressed well the amazing growing journey you have taken and how your mom is not here to witness this journey, and how you love her.  Most of what we have known or know  is non verbal,  and most of what we think about we have never spoken.  And very little of what we have talked about we have committed to writing about.

  i am not understood or at least it it not communicated to me in my family that i am understood or felt understood by my mother or father.  That longing to connect and have fellowship and be understood and to understand,  to belong,  to be loved, and embraced by others unconditionally loved by the family of God is a divine gift.  How precious when that longing is filled, when we have peace and fellowship and love in the family of God with closeness and intimacy.  Too often we love or are loved from a distance, and  if that is all there is we settle for that.

[Gail]

Wow! I'm happy for the clarification 

I have found myself in situations that afterwards I so wished I could go back and undo. I know the shame of that realisation. I tell myself that it's easier to be careful than to have to backtrack and apologise later.

Gay, your remark about viewing people as conversion targets is one that I have heard and read from both XSDAs and Adventists who have struggled with their lack of success in the venture. It really made me think about how it feels to be treated as such (a missionary project). As a result, I backed away from my family (yes, me, too!) and tried to find ways to treat them as I would like to be treated. 

We know that we desperately want a heavenly home for the ones that mean the most to us now. We know that Jesus WON people's wherever He went. The puzzle is how to narrow the gap in the two methods.

Maybe that is why He told us to take His yoke upon us and learn of Him. And I believe that is what you are doing.

[Gail]

As I think of it, I would like to say to Geaorrge that I have been really trying to understand your dilemma. I so appreciate your willingness to explain how it is for you. 

I know it is easy for others to pinpoint the block in someone else but please don't let that discourage you. I don't know why you have had the struggle you have. I am happy that in spite of it you are here with us  

And I am happy that you have shared! 

[Bravus]

I guess my question would have to be 'which God?' That's probably just because I'm too analytical, but I also don't think I can answer the question in the OP without asking that question.

I've been watching this thread throughout its life, and refraining from posting. The reason was that, if the God in question is an interventionist God as usually described in Adventism and Christianity, my answer would have to be 'nothing'. Nothing makes that God real to me. I didn't want to post that because I thought it would bring my friends here down.

I'm not an atheist: I do think a God exists. But it is a God that is larger than our universe, and that our universe exists within. This view is described as 'panentheism'. This infinite God contains all possibilities, and does not directly intervene in our lives. When it comes to what we can observe and measure, there is no perceptible difference between how the world looks from a panentheist perspective and from a purely naturalistic perspective.

So I guess what makes God real for me is a set of beliefs and ideas, but that the God that is real for me is somewhat unlike the God worshipped by most of my friends here.

[CoAspen]

And because of that, we have tried to make Him more like ourselves in order to have some consept of who or what He is.

When ever the question is asked, I am reminded of an Episode from Star Trek about who or what God is. It was very interesting and no, I do not remeber the name of the episode.

[Geoarrge]

I am stubborn enough to keep going through the motions every day, but I'm not getting anywhere.   Every time I look at a blank page I feel the weight of responsibility to fill it with something valuable, and a sense of dread that I will have to do everything alone until I can reliably do that.  I ask God for help, over and over and over again, for so many years, and come up empty.  I understand that I might not get to have anything outside of myself to keep me going, but so far that hasn't worked too well. 

[CoAspen]

I have a feeling, Bravus, that your perception of God is not all that unlike many of the rest of us. We just may not voice it as you have!

[GayatfootofCross]

On 3/18/2018 at 11:16 AM, debbym said:

 

thank you ..I feel understood and that means a lot to me.

I have great respect for you and like to see your thoughts whereever i happen upon them.

Yesterday my mom would have been 74.

 

[debbym]

i think of the blind men all touching a different part of the elephant describing the elephant.  i think i am all of the blind men,  touching a different aspect or quality of God at different times in my life or at different places of need.  My God provides for all of my needs, and my needs vary through the day, and from the cradle to the grave.  Over the development of my life my needs are changing.  What i would draw from God is shifting, and to put all those provisions together with all those needs,  yes they draw a picture of me, in a relationship to a providing God.  I am not seeing one without the other.  Yes we see God through the lens of our being which he created with the potential of knowing him.

so many times i wept and my tears were subdued, but not immediately.  i had a season of tears flowing.  or my tummy was hungry, and i hungered, but food came.  or i hungered for God,  then as much as i could bear the Spirit came, or i hungered for wisdom, drops of wisdom came, now i am longing for more,  more of Christ in my relationships...  like Elijah sending his servant to search the sky on Mt. Carmel, and when the servant finally came back and said he  saw a small cloud Elijah said run, the rain is coming.  I believe the rain is coming.  

and when i am dying and need more time, and need more air and need relief from pain...  it may not come till the resurrection, but indeed, oh yes indeed it will come.  God is many things at many times of many needs, He is the provider, sustainer, creator, innovator, re-creator, preserver, cleanser, protector,  author,  life giver.. and more  are you alive?  are you forgiven?  do you have faith? are you holding up in a long struggle?  do you spend time surrounded by nature? are you bearing up in discouragement? are you buoyed up after a long course of more difficult days?  are you living insights gained?  are you hoping for better days?  I offer that these are lenses by which we may glimpse God by faith.

[debbym]

7 hours ago, GayatfootofCross said:

 

 

you are kind in your words.  Thank-you.

[JoeMo]

I hope I state this accurately ...

What makes God real to me is my faith in Him.  I choose to believe; and shape my worldview on that fundamental choice.  I cannot explicitly prove that  God exists"; but I believe it so strongly that it might as well be a fact to me.  Bravus asked earlier "which God?" for me it is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses - and His only begotten Son Jesus Christ.

People who do not believe in God choose to not believe in Him; and their worldview is shaped by that fundamental choice.

Bottom line (at least for me) is that God is real, whether one chooses to believe or not.

[debbym]

the exercise of faith renews the realness of God to me also.  if i let faith lay  with being exercised the reality o God can grow dim.  i believe that is why there are warnings about neglecting our salvation.  not  so good to neglect to pray and exercise faith.