Reports are in about a transgendered person is the Elder at Hollywood SDA Church

[Rossw]

Does 1 Corinthians 6:9 not apply to us in our current time? Whether you know it or admit it the Hollywood "elder" is a man wearing woman's clothes and is effeminate. According to Paul that person will not receive eternal life which questions why he is an "elder" in the spiritual charge of others.

26 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Rossw made the followings comment:

Rossw,I do not think that you were rude in your statement, just ignorant.

The fact of the matter is that many people today do not know whether or not they are male or female.

The fact of the matter is that we often cannot genetically identify between a male and a female.

Rossw, those are facts.

I'm sorry but that is not true and those are not facts. We can genetically tell the difference between man and woman. 

In almost all cases an individual knows their gender but may choose to deny what they actually are. The denial of their gender does not change the gender.

35 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Tell me:  A person with an external male  organ and an internal female organ, may not be quickly identified as to sex.  Please tell me which you believe they are.

Statisticaly how often does this happen? If you tell me it is common or the norm then we must admit your delusional. Forgive me for the statement but the answers are clear if you don't allow society to run your life. Biblically we know the answers to these questions. 1 Corinthians 6 is clear.

If there is a y chromosome they are mail.

[Gregory Matthews]

My question to you again:  To what extent do you say that chromosomal studies should be used to decide who should be leaders in a SDA Congregation.  How do you know if a Y chromosome is present, in every case.

 

[Rossw]

Do you think God can tell a person is faking? 

The person in Hollywood isn't fooling anybody. In fact, they have been up front with their change. Having a surgical change does not change the fact the person is still male.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

thankfully, it doesn't matter whether someone is a male or female, transsexual, or otherwise, when organ donation of kidneys, heart, lungs, bone, corneas, etc, is done...

just sayin'...

 

[Rossw]

10 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said:

thankfully, it doesn't matter whether someone is a male or female, transsexual, or otherwise, when organ donation of kidneys, heart, lungs, bone, corneas, etc, is done...

just sayin'...

 

"Just sayin'" what? You haven't made any sense.

[Gregory Matthews]

Rossw, Pam is saying that when you receive an organ donation, the success of that transplant does not depend upon whether or not that organ came from a male, female, or transgender person.

You may disagree with the above.  but, that is how I understand what she said.  If you disagree, go ahead and challenge her.

NOTE:  There would be an exception.  Certainly the transplant of a uterus would likely come from a female.

 

[Outta Here]

http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency

[Outta Here]

http://www.isna.org/faq/y_chromosome

[Tom Wetmore]

@Rossw Please spend some time reading the pages that Aubrey has just provided a link to, and perhaps some time on the rest of the site they are a part of.  This topic is far more complex than you apparently realize.  It would be well to educate yourself a bit before you start concluding people here are delusional or that effected individuals just have psychological problems.

As for the genetics, what Gregory has posted is essentially correct.  I have had discussions along these lines with my biologist son who is quite knowledgable in genetics.  I have often proof read papers he has written, a fairly recent one related to this topic was about the Klinefelter Syndrome.  

[Rossw]

3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Rossw, Pam is saying that when you receive an organ donation, the success of that transplant does not depend upon whether or not that organ came from a male, female, or transgender person.

You may disagree with the above.  but, that is how I understand what she said.  If you disagree, go ahead and challenge her.

NOTE:  There would be an exception.  Certainly the transplant of a uterus would likely come from a female.

 

You stumbled on to something here.

[Rossw]

I'll read the links by Aubrey a little later but the conclusions are always the same. The topic really is simple but many like to complicate it. Without the y men are not really men and can't have kids according to a linked study above. It's really the same progressive women's movement with a slightly new spin. Men aren't aloud to be men anymore and are praised when they feminize. The Bible is very binary in nature when referring to the sexes and the effeminate are in trouble. It really is that simple no matter how much man and sin attempt to muddy it.

9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived;neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [f]effeminate, nor homosexuals,

-----------

According to 1 Corinthians 6 many here are deceived.

[Tom Wetmore]

Are you and all you do 100% masculine?

[Stan]

I like what EGW said "If we are going to err, err on the side of compassion"

 

Just sayin'

[Rossw]

3 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Are you and all you do 100% masculine?

I work on cars for a living, do the construction on my own home, love my wife and my son. Am I less of a man for nearly crying for my co-worker at his funeral on Friday? I am probably more masculine than most modern males.

This brings up another question. Why does society now shame "masculine" males?

[Rossw]

What humans did God create on the sixth day?

[bonnie]

19 minutes ago, Rossw said:

What humans did God create on the sixth day?

 

38 minutes ago, Rossw said:

I work on cars for a living, do the construction on my own home, love my wife and my son. Am I less of a man for nearly crying for my co-worker at his funeral on Friday? I am probably more masculine than most modern males.

This brings up another question. Why does society now shame "masculine" males?

Depends on how masculine and feminine are defined. Personally I have and prefer a masculine man

[Rossw]

6 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

@Rossw

As for the genetics, what Gregory has posted is essentially correct.  I have had discussions along these lines with my biologist son who is quite knowledgable in genetics.  I have often proof read papers he has written, a fairly recent one related to this topic was about the Klinefelter Syndrome.  

Interesting..."Syndrome"?...Hmm.

Can we agree a Syndrome is associated with a condition, either psychological or physical, that is not normal and is usually considered an affliction?

[Rossw]

Can an apparent man with xx chromosomes reproduce? According to a quick read on the xxy phenomenon of males they are sterile. We know sterility is not a normal condition(syndrome) otherwise we couldn't be fruitful and multiply. According to the study of male mice with xx Chromosomes they essentially were also sterile and their male offspring definitely were sterile. 

The genetics discussion is interesting but may not necessarily apply to the transgender elder from Hollywood. Looking at the facts of the elder in Hollywood it appears the person likely has a psychological syndrome. The old saying applies "walks like a duck, talks like a duck". 'He' looks and talks like a man and claims to be transgendered(surgery cannot actually change the gender)(he still looks and talks like a man). Through simple logical reasoning we know psychologically the 'elder' is a man but thinks he's a woman. This classifies 'him' as effeminate by definition which puts 'his' salvation in possible jeopardy according to 1 Cor. 6. This should disqualify 'him' from eldership. There is also no way 'he' qualifies for eldership according to 1 Timothy 3..."2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife,temperate, prudent, respectable,hospitable, able to teach,"

Does the person in Hollywood meet the requirements?

[Gregory Matthews]

Aa lot of personal speculation without knowledge of the facts.

[Rossw]

41 minutes ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Aa lot of personal speculation without knowledge of the facts.

We could play a game of 20 questions and come to logical conclusions.

[Kevin H]

4 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Aa lot of personal speculation without knowledge of the facts.

Don't forget facts are not admissible unless they are in a proof text.

[Outta Here]

/off topic

Even Paul didn't meet those requirements...nor Timothy. 

/back to the regularly scheduled arguments

[Tom Wetmore]

14 hours ago, Rossw said:

I work on cars for a living, do the construction on my own home, love my wife and my son. Am I less of a man for nearly crying for my co-worker at his funeral on Friday? I am probably more masculine than most modern males.

This brings up another question. Why does society now shame "masculine" males?

The evidence of society shaming masculine men is rather thin. 

Your personal examples do raise legitimate questions of what exactly makes any activity or occupation masculine or feminine? And why?  Working on cars for a living?  There are women who do that too.  The queen of England was a mechanic during WWII.  So is her sexual identity in question?  Does a lack of construction or home improvement skills make a man less masculine?  Is a woman with those skills less feminine? What makes showing emotion or expressing ones feelings not so masculine?

[Gregory Matthews]

Roswsw said below:

A very interesting view of the place (role) that one has in society today.

Stated as an opinion, but with a total lack of objective support.

Probably indicates that foundational basis for other statements of personal belief.

On the basis that Rossw seems to believe that the typical male equates to a normal male, he now seems to be telling us that he is not a normal male.  I am puzzled as to why he had a need to tell us this, regardless of whether or not he does believe that the typical male equates to a normal male..

I am probably more masculine than most modern males.

[Rossw]

I don't know of 1 single professional female auto mechanic. Not saying they don't exist. But for the most part they physically can not do the job.