Robert Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 Charity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 We look at the holocaust and say, “Boy, I don’t know how those Germans could do it.” The reason they did it is because they turned their backs to God. When Hitler turned his back to God, then you have unrighteousness. And folks, when this country turns its back to God, we in America are capable of doing exactly what Hitler did. And we are doing it to some extent, when we agree to have abortion. ...May I remind you that 55 million babies are aborted every year in the world of which 1.6 million are in this country. Investigators have found that 90 percent of these abortions are not done because of necessity, but because of convenience. Pastor Sequeira Charity 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 I like what the Apostle Paul states of those who call evil, good: "Deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds." 2 Cor 11:13-15 The real motive behind abortion, as birth-control, is not because Planned Parenthood cares about women's reproductive rights....What they really care about are their own self-interests. Translation? $$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgxzjFsn3HI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted July 17, 2016 Author Share Posted July 17, 2016 Just an added note: I do not wish to come off self-righteously on this abortion issue. After all, according to Christ, if you hate someone you are a murderer in His eyes (see Matt 5:21,22 NASB) Murder, physically or at the thought level (i.e., hate), can be forgiven because of the doing & dying of Christ. After all "there is none righteous, no, not even one." However, as Paul states, let us not use our freedom from under the curse of the law as justification to continue, as a lifestyle, wrong doing (see Gal 5:13) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charity Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 All very good responses to the abortion issue. Simply put. It is wrong. It is murder. But simply concluded - It will not stop. At least not until Christ returns. So I ask the question that came to me as I listened to Gianna - what can I do. She takes about the many support groups and services available around the country. I would love to start a home for unwed mothers who are contemplating abortion that serves also as a home for those children when they are born. I'm sure there are already homes like this out there but it is obvious that more are needed. I'm not sure where to start - but I'm sure that if this is what God wants me to do He will make it happen. But there is a practical place to start. If i know someone in that position - unwanted pregnancy and contemplating abortion - I can offer my support without coming across as judgemental or interfering. Or offer that support even after they've made the choice to have the abortion. We might not be able to stop abortion globally but we can chip away at it bit by bit locally by using a very powerful tool God has given us - love. Because we who are His children are love just as our Heavenly Father is Love. Robert 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobRyan Posted August 15, 2016 Share Posted August 15, 2016 On 7/17/2016 at 8:21 AM, Robert said: ...May I remind you that 55 million babies are aborted every year in the world of which 1.6 million are in this country. Investigators have found that 90 percent of these abortions are not done because of necessity, but because of convenience So then - that qualifies as Lev 18 - abomination for which the world will be destroyed some day - yet "If there is one sin above another" for which the world of Noah's day was destroyed - it was the current one that we are about to give Federal Funding to - the Amalgamation of man and beast. Imagine if we could go back in time - and they were to announce a 30 period for open public comment before pursuing federal funding and mandated support for abortions in the U.S. Imagine that you are now in that 30 day window - and can comment. Would you? That is where we are with the "Amalgamation of Man and best" for the remainder of this month. Quote John 8:32 - The Truth will make you free“The righteousness of Christ will not cover one cherished sin." COL 316. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aliensanctuary Posted August 16, 2016 Share Posted August 16, 2016 Perhaps all of the anti-abortionists should offer to adopt the soon-to-be-aborted babies at the Planned Holocaust Clinics. If the mothers-to-be were offered a substantial cash payment, perhaps they would not abort so they could make some real money every time they got pregnant. Quote The Parable of the Lamb and the Pigpen https://www.createspace.com/3401451 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 16, 2016 Members Share Posted August 16, 2016 "After reaching a high of over 1.6 million in 1990, the number of abortions performed annually in the U.S. have dropped to around 1.06 million a year" http://www.nrlc.org/uploads/factsheets/FS01AbortionintheUS.pdf Are there 1.06 million people in the US willing to adopt a child every year? While an increase of 1.06 million infants every year would be a tremendous boon to the Pampers and Huggies industry, as well as the ongoing increase in needed supplies, what about the ones whose families would be required to go on public assistance because they couldn't provide for the children. What about those infants born with severe abnormalities, with the attendant ongoing medical needs? Yes, those things would require an increase in medical specialty employment. And of course, there would be an increase need for more teachers. But then there would also be a need for an increase in available jobs down the line. What is needed is contraception information... (btw, I am *not* pro-abortion — but I'm also not one to close my eyes to the problems associated with the very few options espoused by the pro-life folks, either) phkrause and 8thdaypriest 2 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 9 hours ago, Aliensanctuary said: Perhaps all of the anti-abortionists should offer to adopt the soon-to-be-aborted babies at the Planned Holocaust Clinics..... I do not like your sarcasm one bit.. Apparently, in your mind, if something is an inconvenience, you toss it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 16, 2016 Author Share Posted August 16, 2016 2 hours ago, rudywoofs (Pam) said: What is needed is contraception information... Sure, but not abortion as birth control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted August 16, 2016 Members Share Posted August 16, 2016 how is abortion worse than an IUD preventing an implantation of a fertilized egg thus leading to no pregnancy? Both are preventing the birth of a possible Madam Curie, Michelangelo, Albert Einstein, Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr, etc. I feel that the abortion issue is more of a personal struggle than it is of a theological issue. When it's made into a theological issue, it seems that the views of others get imposed upon someone without due consideration of that person's situation. just my 2¢ phkrause 1 Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 17, 2016 Author Share Posted August 17, 2016 Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 11 Besides this you know the time, that the hour has come for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed. 12 The night is far gone; the day is at hand. So then let us cast off the works of darkness and put on the armor of light. 13 Let us walk properly as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and sensuality, not in quarreling and jealousy. 14 But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to gratify its desires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charity Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 Abortion is wrong. For me that is not debatable. Abortion cannot be a personal matter Just as killing isn't We just can't decide to kill someone because it personally suites us for whatever reason. We must be able to determine what's right from what's wrong. God has given us that ability. Sinful man has rejected the truth. Using contraceptive is promoting promiscuity. However it is never the same as abortion. In that case Abstaining would be also Abstaining from sex until married is God's perfect plan for us. But not even all professed Christians factor God into all aspects of their lives at all times. Nevertheless. Considering that it is God who gives life - shouldn't we leave it up to Him to control the population. Instead sinful man has taken this world and his life into his own hands and therefore God has left him up to his own evil devices. Romans 1. But don't be mistaken. God is still in control. Daniel 4: 35And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and amongthe inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? His eyes are on the righteous and will preserve them. Psalm 34. He will put an end to all this when the time is right. Sin will run its course according to God's plans and will not rise a second time. God gurantees it Regarding adopting babies poised for abortion - if God chooses to put me is that position - I trust Him - He will provide for me and those children. But even though I don't fully understand the dynamics of this existence I still trust God enough to know that He is in control of all things and whatever He puts in my path to do I can do cheerfully. He is God! He is on my side! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charity Posted August 20, 2016 Share Posted August 20, 2016 We often forget that this is God's world and we are trying to run it without Him. All our efforts will fail. Only He can fix things. And He will. In His own time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 20 hours ago, Charity said: Abortion is wrong. For me that is not debatable. Abortion cannot be a personal matter Just as killing isn't We just can't decide to kill someone because it personally suites us for whatever reason. If someone were to see a mother killing an infant they would stop her - potentially using deadly force. If someone kills an abortion doctor to stop the murder of infants he/she goes to jail. Food for thought.... Quote Using contraceptive is promoting promiscuity. Maybe...but, the unconverted are going to have sex anyway. I would rather they use contraceptives then to terminated (murder) a pregnancy. Married couples should use contraceptives if they are not ready for a child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 On July 17, 2016 at 9:42 PM, Robert said: The real motive behind abortion, as birth-control, is not because Planned Parenthood cares about women's reproductive rights....What they really care about are their own self-interests. Translation? $$$$ The same could be said about hospitals in general, including virtually all aspects of the healthcare industry: pharmaceuticals, chemotherapy (cancer is big business), surgery (talk about $$$$), the vaccine industry, medical insurance, etc. I point out the above to demonstrate why this particular argument is futile, and has no direct relationship to this topic which purports to be a "theological issue." Money can be gotten in many ways, including by Divine providence and by thievery. It has no practical bearing on "theological" issues. One might even say many pastors have only the $$$$ in mind (unfortunately, as I have found to be true in certain cases). This does not turn the ministry into a theologically-incorrect trade. On August 7, 2016 at 9:35 PM, Charity said: All very good responses to the abortion issue. Simply put. It is wrong. It is murder. Calling black white won't make it white. Is it "murder" if someone cuts off some of his own flesh in the form of his hand, or plucks out his eye, per Jesus' directions? Is it "murder" to not have as many babies as one can possibly have, respecting the "will of the flesh"? Your statement of "fact" ignores the real "fact" that the issue is not so cut-and-dried. In fact, the Bible does far more to support abortion than to oppose it. Every statement in the Bible about abortion, save one, is in support of it. The one statement which is not is vague and ambiguous in its meaning and application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 3 hours ago, Robert said: Maybe...but, the unconverted are going to have sex anyway. I would rather they use contraceptives then to terminated (murder) a pregnancy. Married couples should use contraceptives if they are not ready for a child. Here's where many go astray. They do not first stop and consider the Biblical definition for murder. Many make assumptions about what "murder" means, and fall prey to companion errors when once they have erred on its definition. Here are some questions to get started with: Did David "murder" Goliath? Did God "murder" Uzzah, Nadab, Abihu, Korah, Dathan, Abiram, the antediluvians, the Sodomites, etc.? Did God command murder in cleansing the Promised Land of the Canaanites? Does God value the life of a pre-viability fetus more than that of an accountable adult? Will all aborted fetuses go to Heaven? Having looked at those questions, one can quickly see the need for some deep study to understand Biblical meanings before jumping to definitive and conclusive answers. I hope people will take time to study for themselves, showing themselves to be approved unto God, rightly dividing the Word of Truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 13 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said: Is it "murder" if someone cuts off some of his own flesh in the form of his hand, or plucks out his eye, per Jesus' directions? Jesus is not mandating self-abuse. Jesus is speaking to the Jews heavily indoctrinated in legalism. He is trying to expose their self-righteousness. He ends by stating, "Be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." How perfect? Just as God is perfect and holy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 8 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said: Did God "murder" Uzzah, Nadab, Abihu, Korah, Dathan, Abiram, the antediluvians, the Sodomites, etc.? "God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself." "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown." "Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government." Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall come on them; so that they will say in that day, 'Haven't these evils come on us because our God is not among us?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 1 minute ago, Robert said: "God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself." "God does not stand toward the sinner as an executioner of the sentence against transgression; but He leaves the rejectors of His mercy to themselves, to reap that which they have sown." "Rebellion was not to be overcome by force. Compelling power is found only under Satan's government." Ellen White Those are well known statements. They are balanced by others. The Bible demonstrates that God does, at times, destroy. He has that right. When Mrs. White says "God destroys no man," her context is that of character. God does not force our choices, and does not cause us to sin, thus destroying our character--we do that by ourselves. Are we back to definitions? What does "destroy" mean, and how many ways can it be applied? The context of those statements from Mrs. White is frequently ignored. She does NOT, for example, use any of those statements in reference to hell, nor to any post-probationary event (e.g. the seven last plagues). The Bible says: "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are" (1 Corinthians 3:17). "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28). For those who destroy their souls, God will destroy both soul and body in hell. Ellen White acknowledges this: Parents must govern their children, correct their passions, and subdue them, or God will surely destroy the children in the day of His fierce anger, and the parents who have not controlled their children will not be blameless. Especially should the servants of God govern their own families and have them in good subjection. I saw that they are not prepared to judge or decide in matters of the church, unless they can rule well their own house. They must first have order at home, and then their judgment and influence will tell in the church. 281 {CCh 190.3} Then the end will come. God will vindicate His law and deliver His people. Satan and all who have joined him in rebellion will be cut off. Sin and sinners will perish, root and branch, (Malachi 4:1),--Satan the root, and his followers the branches. The word will be fulfilled to the prince of evil, "Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; . . . I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. . . . Thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more." Then "the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be;" "they shall be as though they had not been." Ezekiel 28:6-19; Psalm 37:10; Obadiah 16. {DA 763.4} This is not an act of arbitrary power on the part of God. The rejecters of His mercy reap that which they have sown. God is the fountain of life; and when one chooses the service of sin, he separates from God, and thus cuts himself off from life. He is "alienated from the life of God." Christ says, "All they that hate Me love death." Ephesians 4:18; Proverbs 8:36. God gives them existence for a time that they may develop their character and reveal their principles. This accomplished, they receive the results of their own choice. By a life of rebellion, Satan and all who unite with him place themselves so out of harmony with God that His very presence is to them a consuming fire. The glory of Him who is love will destroy them. {DA 764.1} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Green Cochoa said: Those are well known statements. They are balanced by others. Read: http://sinbearer.com/light_on_the_dark_side_of_god.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Green Cochoa said: the Bible does far more to support abortion than to oppose it. Every statement in the Bible about abortion, save one, is in support of it. You have lost your mind, Mr. Cochoa.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 5 minutes ago, Robert said: Read: http://sinbearer.com/light_on_the_dark_side_of_god.htm Who will say God will not do what He says He will do? "Let God be true, but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4). The Lord is coming in flaming fire to take vengeance on those sinners who know not God and obey not His gospel. And because, in His infinite mercy, He delays His coming to give the world a larger span for repentance, sinners flatter themselves [that] He will never come. {10MR 265.2} The plea may be made that a loving Father would not see His children suffering the punishment of God by fire while He had the power to relieve them. But God would, for the good of His subjects and for their safety, punish the transgressor. God does not work on the plan of man. He can do infinite justice that man has no right to do before his fellow man. Noah would have displeased God to have drowned one of the scoffers and mockers that harassed him, but God drowned the vast world. Lot would have had no right to inflict punishment on his sons-in-law, but God would do it in strict justice. {LDE 241.2} Who will say God will not do what He says He will do?--12MR 207-209; 10MR 265 (1876). {LDE 241.3} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Cochoa Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, Robert said: You have lost your mind, Mr. Cochoa.... I won't speak for my mind, but I haven't lost my Bible. I will trust my Bible over my mind any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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