Stan Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 This was emailed to me.. SHOULD Conference or Union growth, be reflective in the reelection of the President of either of those institutions? AND if so .... what rate, of any, should be a pass/fail??? (Not sure I would word the first one that way, but I understand the intent) Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Ask God. He'll know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darlene Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I would say that 'no' a president should not be elected on growth of membership in a union or conference. It would be good if there was growth but, it is not a good measure for re-election because there are some churches that go through their membership books and clean them up from time to time. That is an action of the local church and would affect the growth of the conference. It would be good if all churches cleaned up their books from time to time. There are dead, missing, moved, and apostisized members on local church books who should not be there. If a church has tried to locate these members 3 or 4 times and have a paper trail to support their attemps to locate them their membership can be dropped as missing. This would affect Conference membership totals so 'no' a president should not be elected on growth of membership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted February 20, 2006 Author Share Posted February 20, 2006 I agree that it needs to be more than just numbers. Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 In keeping with the "monkey wrench" philosphy , how else do you measure the worth of a conference president? Isn't he supposed to promote growth in churches/conference? Isn't he suppose to support nurture of both the spiritual AND the literal ? What about effectively nurting the churches? [wouldn't that promote a slow growth in the church?] And what about keeping the church books CURRENT? How about keeping the business of the church streamlined as in a lean mean growing machine ? Isn't he to promote the economich health of the chruch as well? Doesn't the President of the Union set the pace of the churches? Do we need Conference presidents at all??? [ , there's a topic that can derail the intent of this thread, so let's not go there ....at least not yet! ] So, what/how does one measure the worth of a conference president? Ok, is that monkey wrench big enough for ya? Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Quote: Neil D said: In keeping with the "monkey wrench" philosphy , how else do you measure the worth of a conference president? Isn't he supposed to promote growth in churches/conference? Isn't he suppose to support nurture of both the spiritual AND the literal ? What about effectively nurting the churches? [wouldn't that promote a slow growth in the church?] And what about keeping the church books CURRENT? How about keeping the business of the church streamlined as in a lean mean growing machine ? Isn't he to promote the economich health of the chruch as well? Doesn't the President of the Union set the pace of the churches? Do we need Conference presidents at all??? [ , there's a topic that can derail the intent of this thread, so let's not go there ....at least not yet! ] So, what/how does one measure the worth of a conference president? Ok, is that monkey wrench big enough for ya? But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for [the LORD seeth] not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart. 1 Samuel 16:7 Every way of a man [is] right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts. Proverbs 21:2 I think both those verses are to the point of the question. For only Abba knows why authority is given to one and not another. Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cricket Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Quote: I think both those verses are to the point of the question. For only Abba knows why authority is given to one and not another. Yep. Ask God. He'll know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Quote: Cricket said: Quote: I think both those verses are to the point of the question. For only Abba knows why authority is given to one and not another. Yep. Ask God. He'll know. Ok, so how does God communicate that clearly to His present day church ? I don't think that can be done without a lot of heart ache and hashing it out between His membership....And as it is, He is keeping a lot of this information to Himself and not letting us in on the info so that we can make some informed decisions.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Do you think He is so lacking in power that He cannot cause those to come into authority that fit with His Perfect Plan and Will without "telling" people? He called Cyrus by name 150 years prior to his birth. I'm sure Abba can make those He desires to be in authority, to be in authority. Clio Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Quote: Clio said: Do you think He is so lacking in power that He cannot cause those to come into authority that fit with His Perfect Plan and Will without "telling" people? Lacking in power, no....Communication, OTOH, seems to be lacking. After all, if you have been in contact with humanity for over 6000 years, you'd think that you would have better communications than just a book that is over 1500 years in the making.... Quote: He called Cyrus by name 150 years prior to his birth. Clio I have no problem with one man...I do have a problem with God talking to a group of people and coming to a consensus over a controverial problem...Concider the many different denominations from Catholic to Adventist and the history in between... BTW, notice I said that it was a problem...It is not insurmountable.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted February 23, 2006 Share Posted February 23, 2006 Neil, I recognize the issue you are speaking to, but in my experience, Abba is bigger than that. He just doesn't fit inside the walls of that box. NOTHING happens outside His control or ultimately fitting in with His plans. Especially in the areas He regards as His Own, like who is in a position of authority in His church. Quote A heart where He alone has first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted March 4, 2006 Share Posted March 4, 2006 Quote: NOTHING happens outside His control or ultimately fitting in with His plans. Especially in the areas He regards as His Own, like who is in a position of authority in His church. Nothing???? Even Sin??? Sorry, don't believe it. I am sure that nothing ever happens that He isn't AWARE of, but out side His plans....I think that there are lots of things...Are there alternate plans if the origional doesn't work? Sure, and right now, there are 2006 yearly alternate plans that have happened since the death of Jesus on the Cross...And that's not including the personal plans for everyone in the world. However, that doesn't get back to the issue of qualifications for a conference president. What are the qualifications? As I have asked- [:"red"] how else do you measure the worth of a conference president? Isn't he supposed to promote growth in churches/conference? Isn't he suppose to support nurture of both the spiritual AND the literal ? What about effectively nurting the churches? [wouldn't that promote a slow growth in the church?] And what about keeping the church books CURRENT? How about keeping the business of the church streamlined as in a lean mean growing machine ? Isn't he to promote the economich health of the chruch as well? Doesn't the President of the Union set the pace of the churches? [/] And when someone says " Ask God. He'll know." It just bothers me to no end that blind faith is more important than reasoned judgement over someone's qualifications and past experiences. Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted April 29, 2006 Moderators Share Posted April 29, 2006 How about growth in tithe and offerings? Tithes & offerings usually tell where a person's real treasure is. These will reflect the real growth in numbers of the faithful, and ignores those who are dropped from the books. The formula should take into account the fluctuations in the economy, of course. If the local church is stagnant, fire the pastor. If the conference, union are stagnant, I think we have no business re-electing the same ineffective people over and over again. We expect the best from professional people, business CEOs, so why should we excempt church leaders? Gerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil D Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Quote: How about growth in tithe and offerings? Tithes & offerings usually tell where a person's real treasure is. These will reflect the real growth in numbers of the faithful, and ignores those who are dropped from the books. I have a hard time believing this and let me explain why.... Many people are living from check to check, even among the middle-class Adventist. Sure, we have doctors and RNs who are making 100k+ and 50k+ per year respectively, but that is a minority in our church. There are SDA who are making gross $8/hr in high expensive areas, and are living from paycheck to paycheck and can not give to the tith to the church....I see retirees who literally must make decisions over medications and food...Tithe and offerings just aren't in the picture...desire is, but in actuallity, I just don't think so.... Quote Democracy is a device that ensures we shall be governed no better than we deserve. George Bernard Shaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beryl Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I see retirees who literally must make decisions over medications and food...Tithe and offerings just aren't in the picture...desire is, but in actuallity, I just don't think so.... <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> As a pensioner, I would say -- that is no excuse! My reason? experience, and the promise in Malachi 4:8-11. Does God test us? Oh, yes! And hHe always keeps to His promise. Yes, there are times when I, too, have been tested, but I have always found that God keeps His word. He doesn't promise us "icecream and cake", but He does promise that our "bread and water" will be sure. In other words, He will supply the necessities of life -- and I have found that He very often adds the butter. When we intentionally put God first, He will never let us down. Beryl Quote "Grace is God doing for us, in us and through us that which He requires of us but which is impossible for us to do in or for ourselves." But He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." 2 Cor. 12:9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olger Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 It would be nice if there were a mechanism for voting in a new president. Usually, constituency meetings are a rubber stamp meetings. gcw Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aldona Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Gerry Cabalo said: How about growth in tithe and offerings? Tithes & offerings usually tell where a person's real treasure is. <hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> If this was the case, then the Pharisees who emptied their bags of money into the church money-box would register as many, many times more spiritual than the widow who put in the two mites. Only God knows who is "giving their all", and who is doing it from pure motives and a cheerful heart. aldona Quote www.asrc.org.au (Asylum Seeker Resource Centre, Melbourne)Helping over 2000 refugees & asylum seekers each monthIMSLP/Petrucci Music LibraryThe Public Domain Music Score Library - Free Sheet Music DownloadsLooking for classical sheet music? Try IMSLP first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvin mccarty Posted May 7, 2006 Share Posted May 7, 2006 Well I believe that the constituency should elect the Board and the Board should hire the CEO and other office employees. Election to these positions is somewhat of a fraud and easily tainted. mel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.