Prophetic Inspiration

[8thdaypriest]

57 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

To be clear, I do not use Mrs. White as an infallible reference because I don't believe everything she says.  Also, quoting Mrs. White to non SDA's is useless - they don't even know her, much less consider her a prophet.

Someone earlier asked for examples of things that Mrs. White says that I do not find in scripture. Here are just a few.

Day for a year principle applying to all prophecy; not just the judgment passages in Numbers and Ezekiel.  If it did, why doesn't Mrs. White say the millennium lasts 360,000 years rather than 1,000?

Jesus did not enter the Most Holy Place in 1844; He did it when He ascended to His Father.  Read the Book of Hebrews.

The papacy is not the antichrist; and the end-time church is not Rome.  See Revelation 17:10 Rome was "the Kingdom that is" in John's time; and cannot be the ned-time king.

The end-time issue will not be the Sabbath; it will be much broader than that.  It will be "who do you worship - the beast or the Messiah?

I could go on and on; but I worry about offending others.

BLOOD SPRINKLED BEFORE THE VEIL DAILY

    “The most important part of the daily ministration was the service performed in behalf of individuals. ... By his own hand the animal was then slain, and the blood was carried by the priest into the holy place and sprinkled before the veil, behind which was the ark containing the law that the sinner had transgressed.  By this ceremony the sin was, through the blood, transferred in figure to the sanctuary.”  Patriarchs and Prophets, p.354

    NOTE: Blood was not carried into the Holy Place on a daily basis.  There were two occasions when blood was carried into the Holy Place and sprinkled before the veil.  First: the blood of the sin offering for a priest. (Leviticus 4:3-12); Second: the blood of the sin offering for the whole Israelite community (Leviticus 4:13-21).

[8thdaypriest]

57 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

To be clear, I do not use Mrs. White as an infallible reference because I don't believe everything she says.  Also, quoting Mrs. White to non SDA's is useless - they don't even know her, much less consider her a prophet.

Someone earlier asked for examples of things that Mrs. White says that I do not find in scripture. Here are just a few.

Day for a year principle applying to all prophecy; not just the judgment passages in Numbers and Ezekiel.  If it did, why doesn't Mrs. White say the millennium lasts 360,000 years rather than 1,000?

Jesus did not enter the Most Holy Place in 1844; He did it when He ascended to His Father.  Read the Book of Hebrews.

The papacy is not the antichrist; and the end-time church is not Rome.  See Revelation 17:10 Rome was "the Kingdom that is" in John's time; and cannot be the ned-time king.

The end-time issue will not be the Sabbath; it will be much broader than that.  It will be "who do you worship - the beast or the Messiah?

I could go on and on; but I worry about offending others.

Here is an example of statements that contradict each other.

TEMPTED BY SATAN FOR FORTY DAYS   or   TEMPTED BY SATAN AFTER 40 DAYS OF FASTING

“As soon as the long fast of Christ commenced, Satan was at hand with his temptations...Satan told Christ ...that it was not necessary for him to endure this painful hunger and death from starvation”
(Redemption of the Temptation of Christ, p. 37 1874 Edition).

“As soon as Christ began his fast, Satan appeared as an angel of light, and claimed to be a messenger of heaven. He told him it was not the will of God that he should suffer this pain and self denial”
(Christ Our Saviour p. 45. 1 Selected Messages p.273).

“Forty days He was tempted of Satan” (Early Writings p.155).

    NOTE: According to these first three statements, Satan came to tempt Christ at the beginning of His forty day fast in the wilderness.  In the following statement, Satan appears after the forty days of  fasting are completed. This is consistent with Scripture which does not say that Christ was tempted for forty days, only that Satan came to tempt Him after He was very hungry.

    “When Jesus entered the wilderness, He was shut in by the Father’s glory...But the glory departed, and He was left to battle with temptation. For forty days he fasted and prayed... Now was Satan’’s opportunity. Now he supposed he could overcome Christ” (Desire of Ages p.118)
 
    “After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.” ... “The tempter came to him and said, ‘If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread’” (Matthew 4:2-3 NIV).

[8thdaypriest]

Two divine beings - Father and Son - for the first 50 years of her ministry, then three divine beings for the last 20.

 

Little children in the New Earth with "wings".   (Question:  Why are they STILL little children after the millennium?)  So humans will become a new species - with wings??

 

CHRIST RAISED HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD

“He who said, ‘I lay down my life, that I might take it again,’ came forth from the grave to life that was in himself.  Humanity died: divinity did not die.  In his divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death” (The Youth’s Instructor, August 4, 1898 pr.1)

  NOTE: Scripture is very clear.  The Father raised His Son from death.  Christ did NOT come forth from the grave by His own power.  And He was in fact - dead.  (Acts 4:10, Acts 13:30, Acts 17:31, Romans 4:24, Romans 6:4, Romans 8:11, Romans 10:9, Galatians 1:1, Ephesians 1:17-20, 1Thessalonians 1:10, 1Peter 1:3)

 

There are many other statements that brought me to DOUBT the inspiration of Ellen White. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

See if you think Mrs White is consistent in her interpretation of Zechariah's vision - specifically concerning the "golden oil".  How is it conveyed to humans?

THE GOLDEN OIL represents the Holy Spirit.

“The oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit (Zechariah 4 quoted).”      Christ’s Object Lessons pg.406

“The oil with which the wise virgins filled their lamps represents the Holy Spirit.  (Zechariah 4 quoted)
                                Review and Herald 07/20/97

“The golden oil, representing the Holy Spirit, is communicated to God’s servants by the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”  Review and Herald 01/25/98

“These heavenly messengers empty the golden oil out of themselves . . .”
                                Review and Herald 4/20/97

“Unless God shall work through the two olive-trees, his witnesses, causing them to empty from themselves the golden oil through the golden tubes into the golden bowls, . . . “          Review and Herald 09/14/97

“From the two olive-trees, the golden oil was emptied through golden pipes into the bowl of the candlestick, and thence into the golden lamps that gave light to the sanctuary.  So from the holy ones that stand in God’s presence, his Spirit is imparted to human instrumentalities that are consecrated to his service.”
                                Review and Herald 03/02/97

“Through the golden pipes, the olive-branches empty the golden oil out of themselves.  These olive-branches are the anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.  Through them the Holy Spirit is communicated to the churches.  Thus heaven and earth are united.”   Review and Herald 05/16/99

NOW CHANGE: Rather than the Holy Spirit, the oil now represents "the word".

“. . . and the Holy Spirit fulfils his office work to empty the golden oil into the golden bowls, . . . “
                                Review and Herald 10/07/09

“The Holy Spirit’s office work is to empty the golden oil into the golden bowls . . .”
                                Review and Herald 04/20/97

“As we consecrate ourselves to God, the Holy Spirit will impart to us the holy oil . . . “
                                Review and Herald 05/16/99

“The word itself must be as represented, the golden oil, emptied from the two olive trees that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.  This is the baptism by the Holy Spirit with fire.”     Bible Commentary Vol. 4, pg.1180

“The gracious utterances of the word are the holy golden oil, emptied from the two olive branches into the hearts ...”                                General Conference Bulletin 04/01/99

Here the oil represents grace.

“By the holy beings surrounding His throne, the Lord keeps up a constant communication with the inhabitants of the earth.  The golden oil represents the grace with which God keeps the lamps of believers supplied.  
                                Bible Commentary Vol. 4 pg.1179

  COMMENT:  The writer is not consistent in her interpretation of the imagery of Zechariah’s vision.  Which interpretation are we to believe, and quote, and hold up as equal in inspiration to the Scriptures?

[Green Cochoa]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

1) To be clear, I do not use Mrs. White as an infallible reference because I don't believe everything she says.  Also, quoting Mrs. White to non SDA's is useless - they don't even know her, much less consider her a prophet.

2) Someone earlier asked for examples of things that Mrs. White says that I do not find in scripture. Here are just a few.

3) Day for a year principle applying to all prophecy; not just the judgment passages in Numbers and Ezekiel.  If it did, why doesn't Mrs. White say the millennium lasts 360,000 years rather than 1,000?

4) Jesus did not enter the Most Holy Place in 1844; He did it when He ascended to His Father.  Read the Book of Hebrews.

5) The papacy is not the antichrist; and the end-time church is not Rome.  See Revelation 17:10 Rome was "the Kingdom that is" in John's time; and cannot be the ned-time king.

6) The end-time issue will not be the Sabbath; it will be much broader than that.  It will be "who do you worship - the beast or the Messiah?

I've added numbers to the above so I can comment on each point individually.

1) I work among Buddhists.  One could just as easily say quoting the Bible to them is useless as they know nothing of it, much less consider it inspired.  The interesting thing is, when I quote either the Bible or Ellen White to them, they accept it at face value, and far more respectfully than many Adventists.

2) All of these are in scripture.

3) There are THREE times possible when looking at prophecies in the Bible: literal (day-for-day); day-for-year; and day-for-millennium.  Context must be used to indicate which of the three applies to a particular time.  Two texts give us the formula for day-for-year, as you alluded to: Ezekiel 4:4-6 and Numbers 14:34.  There are also two texts providing the day-for-millennium principle: Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8.  The "millennium" that you refer to Mrs. White speaking of actually comes from the "day-for-millennium" principle, and it would be senseless to make an application of "day-for-year" on top of the day-for-millennium already applied.

4) As I understand this one, this is an error that comes in with the not-inspired version of the Bible and similar modern "translations" which have added to the Word of God.  Mrs. White was correct.

5) I think you're looking too literally at verb tenses.  Prophets sometimes even wrote about future events using the past tense because they had been revealed to them.

6) I might agree on this, and I think Ellen White does too.  The Sabbath, however, will be a particular test of that obedience that will come up before all for a choice.  Those who choose not to keep the true Sabbath will thereby show whom they worship.

[Green Cochoa]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

See if you think Mrs White is consistent in her interpretation of Zechariah's vision - specifically concerning the "golden oil".  How is it conveyed to humans?

THE GOLDEN OIL represents the Holy Spirit.

“The oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit (Zechariah 4 quoted).”      Christ’s Object Lessons pg.406

“The oil with which the wise virgins filled their lamps represents the Holy Spirit.  (Zechariah 4 quoted)
                                Review and Herald 07/20/97

“The golden oil, representing the Holy Spirit, is communicated to God’s servants by the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.”  Review and Herald 01/25/98

“These heavenly messengers empty the golden oil out of themselves . . .”
                                Review and Herald 4/20/97

“Unless God shall work through the two olive-trees, his witnesses, causing them to empty from themselves the golden oil through the golden tubes into the golden bowls, . . . “          Review and Herald 09/14/97

“From the two olive-trees, the golden oil was emptied through golden pipes into the bowl of the candlestick, and thence into the golden lamps that gave light to the sanctuary.  So from the holy ones that stand in God’s presence, his Spirit is imparted to human instrumentalities that are consecrated to his service.”
                                Review and Herald 03/02/97

“Through the golden pipes, the olive-branches empty the golden oil out of themselves.  These olive-branches are the anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.  Through them the Holy Spirit is communicated to the churches.  Thus heaven and earth are united.”   Review and Herald 05/16/99

NOW CHANGE: Rather than the Holy Spirit, the oil now represents "the word".

“. . . and the Holy Spirit fulfils his office work to empty the golden oil into the golden bowls, . . . “
                                Review and Herald 10/07/09

“The Holy Spirit’s office work is to empty the golden oil into the golden bowls . . .”
                                Review and Herald 04/20/97

“As we consecrate ourselves to God, the Holy Spirit will impart to us the holy oil . . . “
                                Review and Herald 05/16/99

“The word itself must be as represented, the golden oil, emptied from the two olive trees that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.  This is the baptism by the Holy Spirit with fire.”     Bible Commentary Vol. 4, pg.1180

“The gracious utterances of the word are the holy golden oil, emptied from the two olive branches into the hearts ...”                                General Conference Bulletin 04/01/99

Here the oil represents grace.

“By the holy beings surrounding His throne, the Lord keeps up a constant communication with the inhabitants of the earth.  The golden oil represents the grace with which God keeps the lamps of believers supplied.  
                                Bible Commentary Vol. 4 pg.1179

  COMMENT:  The writer is not consistent in her interpretation of the imagery of Zechariah’s vision.  Which interpretation are we to believe, and quote, and hold up as equal in inspiration to the Scriptures?

You grasp at straws. 

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Him,and without Him was not anything made that was made."

"God" and "the Word" are synonymous.  Mrs. White does not contradict herself.

[Rossw]

I guess 8thdaypriest has something to say!?

[JoeMo]

12 minutes ago, Rossw said:

I guess 8thdaypriest has something to say!?

8thdaypriest is one of the smartest and well-studied people on this forum.  You would do well to seriously consider what she posts.  You would also do well to visit her bible study website at www.prophecyviewpoint.com.

[Green Cochoa]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

CHRIST RAISED HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD

“He who said, ‘I lay down my life, that I might take it again,’ came forth from the grave to life that was in himself.  Humanity died: divinity did not die.  In his divinity, Christ possessed the power to break the bonds of death” (The Youth’s Instructor, August 4, 1898 pr.1)

  NOTE: Scripture is very clear.  The Father raised His Son from death.  Christ did NOT come forth from the grave by His own power.  And He was in fact - dead.  (Acts 4:10, Acts 13:30, Acts 17:31, Romans 4:24, Romans 6:4, Romans 8:11, Romans 10:9, Galatians 1:1, Ephesians 1:17-20, 1Thessalonians 1:10, 1Peter 1:3)

 

There are many other statements that brought me to DOUBT the inspiration of Ellen White. 

Again, you have failed to take into consideration the full message in the Bible.

Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.  No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. (John 10:17-18, KJV)

Jesus doesn't mince words.  There's no reason for Him to say He had the power to do something that He could not have done because "He was dead."  As Mrs. White says, divinity did not die.  Is it possible to truly kill God?  If it were, that would make the "immortal" into "mortal," wouldn't it?  Personally, I believe such is impossible.

[Rossw]

11 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

8thdaypriest is one of the smartest and well-studied people on this forum.  You would do well to seriously consider what she posts.  You would also do well to visit her bible study website at www.prophecyviewpoint.com.

I do appreciate her posts and know she's well studied. Just too tired at the moment to go through her posts.

Just recognize her input is very respectable but there is no obligation of agreement.

 

[CoAspen]

Good rebuttal!!

[Kevin H]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

To be clear, I do not use Mrs. White as an infallible reference because I don't believe everything she says.  Also, quoting Mrs. White to non SDA's is useless - they don't even know her, much less consider her a prophet.

Someone earlier asked for examples of things that Mrs. White says that I do not find in scripture. Here are just a few.

1. Day for a year principle applying to all prophecy; not just the judgment passages in Numbers and Ezekiel.  If it did, why doesn't Mrs. White say the millennium lasts 360,000 years rather than 1,000?

2. Jesus did not enter the Most Holy Place in 1844; He did it when He ascended to His Father.  Read the Book of Hebrews.

3. The papacy is not the antichrist; and the end-time church is not Rome.  See Revelation 17:10 Rome was "the Kingdom that is" in John's time; and cannot be the ned-time king.

5. The end-time issue will not be the Sabbath; it will be much broader than that.  It will be "who do you worship - the beast or the Messiah?

I could go on and on; but I worry about offending others.

Some of what JoeMo is trying to say in the above is not clear so would make it harder to discuss. But I would like to try to discuss these issues and numbered them to make it easier to follow:

1. The day-year principle is based on the ancient world's cyclic thought and the application of this found in Leviticus 23 as well as scattered throughout the book of Deuteronomy. If you can get the book "Before Philosophy" by Henri Frankfort and others; university of Chicago press 1946 you can have a better understanding of the issue. When Joachim of Flore was away on the crusades in becoming aware of the middle eastern culture he became aware of the cyclic thought including the day-year application. We do NOT use the day-year application at every time we run into the word "Day" or a time frame. For example, a typical Greek term for "A short time" is to say that something happened in an hour and in a day. Thus we misapply the principle when we try to figure out the time of the plagues and fall of Babylon in Revelation. Other times the Bible is talking about specific literal days within an already day-year framework. And there are times where it simply talking about days.

The day-year principle is when you deal with cyclic situations and from the Leviticus/Deuteronomy the cycles are that a day equals a literal day, the two growing seasons, either fall to spring or spring to fall, so a literal half year. A full year, and a difference between Leviticus and Deuteronomy is that Leviticus would have a 7 year period. Deuteronomy doesn't.

I'm sorry but day-thousand year is NOT one of these. The text in Psalms and Peter is only talking about the vastness of God that a thousand years is only a moment to him. It is a misapplication to read more into the texts than this. And NO there is not a corresponding verse saying "Leviticus and Deuteronomy forgot to include the day=thousand years when it gave the other cyclic equivalents." Also, the word thousand has not always meant numbers. It started out meaning a family unit or a military unit which frequently consisted of around 10 people give or take a few. It was only when an army increased their basic unit from approximately 10 people to a hundred times more that we got the large number out if it. Also, with the millennium, we are again getting into the popular culture of the day. Teachers were sometimes to give quick answers by "Standing on one foot" or they might have plenty of time to make sure that there was a more detailed answer in which to have a thousand years to deal with the answer. The millennium is where we have enough time to have all our questions answered and understood. and for Satan and the demons If after 750 years these goals are all reached Jesus won't say to us "Ok, we have 250 years to twiddle our thumbs, but if you come up with anymore questions feel free to ask." on the other hand if it's new years eve at the end of 999 years and we are still asking questions Jesus is not going to look at his clock and say "Come on and hurry up, we have to return to the earth in a few hours, I can take your question and your question but the rest of you will have to stop asking we've run out of time. "

[Green Cochoa]

29 minutes ago, Kevin H said:

I'm sorry but day-thousand year is NOT one of these. The text in Psalms and Peter is only talking about the vastness of God that a thousand years is only a moment to him. It is a misapplication to read more into the texts than this. And NO there is not a corresponding verse saying "Leviticus and Deuteronomy forgot to include the day=thousand years when it gave the other cyclic equivalents." Also, the word thousand has not always meant numbers. It started out meaning a family unit or a military unit which frequently consisted of around 10 people give or take a few. It was only when an army increased their basic unit from approximately 10 people to a hundred times more that we got the large number out if it. Also, with the millennium, we are again getting into the popular culture of the day. Teachers were sometimes to give quick answers by "Standing on one foot" or they might have plenty of time to make sure that there was a more detailed answer in which to have a thousand years to deal with the answer. The millennium is where we have enough time to have all our questions answered and understood. and for Satan and the demons If after 750 years these goals are all reached Jesus won't say to us "Ok, we have 250 years to twiddle our thumbs, but if you come up with anymore questions feel free to ask." on the other hand if it's new years eve at the end of 999 years and we are still asking questions Jesus is not going to look at his clock and say "Come on and hurry up, we have to return to the earth in a few hours, I can take your question and your question but the rest of you will have to stop asking we've run out of time. "

Kevin,

You haven't looked at the full evidence on this.  Mrs. White highly commends William Miller as a good student of the Bible.  He addresses all three times as I have above.  As I do not know how, and as this leads into a separate topic, please start another thread on "prophetic time" and I will discuss this further with you.  As an attention-grabber, William Miller calls you a "wiseacre."   

[Gregory Matthews]

Kevin said below, in regard to the OT Hebrew word:

My comment is tangential to the main focus of this thread, but he raises an interesting point.

He is correct in what he said.

It is on this basis that one cannot compute with Biblical certainty the actual numbers of the Children of Israel who departed Egypt.  The number may have been far less than commonly thought.

 

Also, the word thousand has not always meant numbers. It started out meaning a family unit or a military unit which frequently consisted of around 10 people give or take a few.  It was only when an army increased their basic unit from approximately 10 people to a hundred times more that we got the large number out if it.

[Kevin H]

9 hours ago, Green Cochoa said:

Kevin,

You haven't looked at the full evidence on this.  Mrs. White highly commends William Miller as a good student of the Bible.  He addresses all three times as I have above.  As I do not know how, and as this leads into a separate topic, please start another thread on "prophetic time" and I will discuss this further with you.  As an attention-grabber, William Miller calls you a "wiseacre."   

I'm sorry Green but Leviticus 23 and Deuteronomy are clear on the Hebrew cycles. Unless you can give evidence of Leviticus 23 and Deuteronomy either being completely wrong, or that the writer neglected for one reason or another one of the cycles the day-thousand years, I am going to have to follow Leviticus 23 and Deuteronomy. Those two sources actually are talking about the Hebrew cycle. Neither the Psalm nor Peter text say that they are talking about the cycles as Leviticus 23 and Deuteronomy do. I am hesitant to read into a text what we do not find there in either words, linguistic or cultural context. When you have two quotes and one of these say "I am specifically talking about this issue" and the other has a pretty poetic phrase but does not give in the context of "I'm talking about this issue" we have to accept the "I'm talking about this issue" quote is the definitive quote.

Yes, William Miller was a good student of the Bible. But while is Principles were correct, he did not always have enough information to have all his applications correct. Don't forget using his methods but not having the information he concluded that the Millerites that were keeping Saturday as the Sabbath were wrong, and also as we have what he taught about the seals and trumpets over history, he had a similar application of the Plagues. We have given up his teachings of the plagues.

[Green Cochoa]

10 hours ago, Kevin H said:

I'm sorry but day-thousand year is NOT one of these. The text in Psalms and Peter is only talking about the vastness of God that a thousand years is only a moment to him.

I will address this single error here, as it relates to the topic of inspiration, but then I will respectfully ask that you open a thread on prophetic time to continue discussion there, lest this thread be closed down like the last one where you persisted within the thread in discussing an off-topic question with me.

With the above snippet I would remind you of one crucial concept: God did not have the Bible written for His own benefit.  If to Him time were only a moment, why would He bother to tell us?  The Bible is for us.  There would be no point in telling us that a day is as a thousand years AND a thousand years as a day if it had no application for us.  There must necessarily be a reason, and a good one, for God to inform us of this A = B and B = A formula.  God did not inspire the prophets to tell us things for which we have no application.  "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for . . . ."

[8thdaypriest]

Maybe the better question would be:  Do I - does anyone, NEED Ellen White's writings in order to be saved?  I would say - NO.

Do I - does everyone, NEED the Scriptures in order to be saved?  I would answer YES.

[Rossw]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Maybe the better question would be:  Do I - does anyone, NEED Ellen White's writings in order to be saved?  I would say - NO.

Do I - does everyone, NEED the Scriptures in order to be saved?  I would answer YES.

At the most basic infantile level, true.

Please note, not meant as obtuseness.

[JoeMo]

22 hours ago, jackson said:

Daniel 9:24-27 is a beautiful, encompassing, prophecy of the mission of Jesus, the Messiah. Including his anointing, his mission, his death,  the end of the ceremonial law, and the termination of the dispensation of the Jewish nation..

I have to agree with you that the "Seventy sevens" are 70 weeks of years.  Most SDA and non SDA theologians agree with this.  However,  I have to disagree with you on the identification of the "Messiah" or "Anointed One".

First of all, lets look at the verses:

"24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

First of all, the capitalization in the term "the Anointed One" was added by the translators.  It is not in the original Hebrew.  The original Hebrew mentions "an anointed one" - not necessarily Christ.

Secondly, you will notice how the 70 weeks is broken into three different time frames Seven,"sevens", 62 "sevens", and one "seven".  I infer that the 70th week is broken off from the other 69.

Lastly, whoever this "anointed one is, he puts an end to sacrifice and sets up the abomination of desolation  until the end comes upon him.  Jesus did NOT set up the AoD; and His "end" never came - just a short pause before a glorious eternal life. 

[8thdaypriest]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

"24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

First of all, the capitalization in the term "the Anointed One" was added by the translators.  It is not in the original Hebrew.  The original Hebrew mentions "an anointed one" - not necessarily Christ.

Secondly, you will notice how the 70 weeks is broken into three different time frames Seven,"sevens", 62 "sevens", and one "seven".  I infer that the 70th week is broken off from the other 69.

Lastly, whoever this "anointed one is, he puts an end to sacrifice and sets up the abomination of desolation  until the end comes upon him.  Jesus did NOT set up the AoD; and His "end" never came - just a short pause before a glorious eternal life. 

I have to agree that the one who "will confirm a covenant with many for one seven" - is NOT Christ.  Yes, "he will put an end to sacrifice and offering".  But he will ALSO "set up an abomination that causes desolation".  That is NOT JESUS!!! 

[8thdaypriest]

On 8/4/2016 at 4:58 PM, Rossw said:

At the most basic infantile level, true.

Please note, not meant as obtuseness.

"Unless you become like little children, you will not see the Kingdom of God."

Glad to be child-like. 

[8thdaypriest]

I have thought that the name "Seventh-day Adventist Church" should be changed to "The Church of the Investigative Judgment".  The whole 1844, pre-advent "investigative judgment", is really the only distinguishing feature of the denomination.  There are several others who rest on the 7th Day Sabbath, eat clean foods, baptize by immersion, believe in "soul-sleep", etc.  But SDAs are the ONLY ones who believe that an "investigative judgment" began back in 1844.  And THAT belief was hardwired into the fundamental beliefs because of belief in the "inspiration" of Ellen White.  If the "great disappointment" had come and gone without her vision of "what took place in heaven" on October 22, 1844, that doctrine might also have come and gone.  

Oops.  I guess there isn't another denomination that teaches GOD is three co-equal, co-eternal divine beings.  That makes TWO distinguishing doctrines - both hardwired as doctrine because of belief in the "prophetic gift" of Ellen White. 

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

20 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

"The Church of the Investigative Judgment".

I can just see it now.  Instead of "SDA", we would have, "COTIJ".... and everyone would call it "the Cottage cheese" church.

[Rossw]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

"Unless you become like little children, you will not see the Kingdom of God."

Glad to be child-like. 

Incorrect context of that verse. A closer context would be milk and meat. 

Child-like is not meant to be likened to a child's understanding of things.

[Rossw]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I have thought that the name "Seventh-day Adventist Church" should be changed to "The Church of the Investigative Judgment".  The whole 1844, pre-advent "investigative judgment", is really the only distinguishing feature of the denomination.  There are several others who rest on the 7th Day Sabbath, eat clean foods, baptize by immersion, believe in "soul-sleep", etc.  But SDAs are the ONLY ones who believe that an "investigative judgment" began back in 1844.  And THAT belief was hardwired into the fundamental beliefs because of belief in the "inspiration" of Ellen White.  If the "great disappointment" had come and gone without her vision of "what took place in heaven" on October 22, 1844, that doctrine might also have come and gone.  

Oops.  I guess there isn't another denomination that teaches GOD is three co-equal, co-eternal divine beings.  That makes TWO distinguishing doctrines - both hardwired as doctrine because of belief in the "prophetic gift" of Ellen White. 

Don't forget a big and important one which ties into the IJ. Jesus IS NOT our scape goat!