Prophetic Inspiration

[CoAspen]

Re: Matthew 18:3......becoming as little children...

Child-like

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Incorrect context of that verse. A closer context would be milk and meat. 

Child-like is not meant to be likened to a child's understanding of things.

Hmmm, so you are disagreeing with EGW, DA 437, "The simplicity, the self-forgetfulness, and the confiding love of a little child are the attributes that Heaven values." 3T 448, "When you become as a little child, willing to be led....."

Sounds to me like she has the 'context' just right, according to EGW! Remember her?

[Rossw]

38 minutes ago, CoAspen said:

Re: Matthew 18:3......becoming as little children...

Child-like

Hmmm, so you are disagreeing with EGW, DA 437, "The simplicity, the self-forgetfulness, and the confiding love of a little child are the attributes that Heaven values." 3T 448, "When you become as a little child, willing to be led....."

Sounds to me like she has the 'context' just right, according to EGW! Remember her?

Thank you for reinforcing my point even if you are oblivious to it.

[Rossw]

It is one thing to have emotional and spiritual attributes of a child and another to limit ones self to the knowledge of a child.

[Tom Wetmore]

But maybe that is the point.  We seem to act as if knowledge and being correct are our ticket to the kingdom. We strive to be right, thinking that is righteousness.  But that isn't it at all. It is not what we know. It is who we know. Maybe just like His statement that the first shall be last and the last shall be first, to be as little children is that so many things we strive and struggle for really are not nearly as important as we might think. Maybe it is the emotional and spiritual attributes that do matter the most, regardless of the childlike knowledge of things.  God is love, not a library.

[CoAspen]

Quote

"The simplicity, the self-forgetfulness, and the confiding love of a little child are the attributes that Heaven values."

Reading EGW on the topic of what heaven values is exactly what Tom is talking about. Our knowledge does little for us, neither who are or any status we may obtain. What Christ told the disciples was/is very powerful to understanding what He wants from all of us, the trust and belief of that small child.

[Rossw]

2 hours ago, Tom Wetmore said:

But maybe that is the point.  We seem to act as if knowledge and being correct are our ticket to the kingdom. We strive to be right, thinking that is righteousness.  But that isn't it at all. It is not what we know. It is who we know. Maybe just like His statement that the first shall be last and the last shall be first, to be as little children is that so many things we strive and struggle for really are not nearly as important as we might think. Maybe it is the emotional and spiritual attributes that do matter the most, regardless of the childlike knowledge of things.  God is love, not a library.

I strive to learn and know more about that which I care deeply for. Much like getting to know my wife.

[8thdaypriest]

It seems you are asking HOW MUCH knowledge a person needs in order to be "saved". 

I think it depends upon the person, and his/her background.  I'm reading "Undeniable" by Douglas Axe (engineer turned molecular-biologist).  He became convinced of "intelligent design" through his experiments with protein sequencing.  He's been swimming upstream against the current of academic "science" (so called), for many years.  His starting point was the lab, but he went on from there to belief in the God of the Bible. 

Individuals come to "know" Jesus and the Father by many and various paths.  Their journey to "truth" begins at different places.  Archeology convinces some that the Bible is historically accurate.  The amazing complexity of biological systems convinces others.  The accuracy of the OT prophecies concerning Jesus, convinces others.  Miracles or visions convince others. 

Watching the change in the personality and character of someone who comes to know Jesus, convinces others.  (My husband became convinced by watching the change in me.  Said he would never have thought it possible that a person could change so profoundly.) 

Whatever the starting place, each one comes to trust the LORD.  We must trust because we still "see through a glass darkly".  We do not yet understand fully - just like children, therefore we must trust that our Heavenly Father will work all things together for our good. 

[Robert]

12 hours ago, CoAspen said:

.... He wants from all of us, the trust and belief of that small child.

Trust and belief in what?

Keep in mind the following:

"For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus different from the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit than the one you received, or a different gospel than the one you accepted, you put up with it well enough!" 2 Corinthians 11:4

"For false christs (i.e., another Jesus) and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." Mark 13:22

So "yes" we are to trust and believe in the Jesus as taught by the Scriptures. Otherwise we are open to deception. 

 

 

[Rossw]

8thday, you're last post is very agreeable but is not an accurate response to my intention. Of course, it's my fault if I haven't been clear. No where have I said there is saving grace in knowledge. My intent from the start is if a modern prophet did/does exist with a Biblically consistent message relevant to our time why would I limit myself from God's word?

[Tom Wetmore]

There are so many admirable qualities of children that get "matured" out of them that would be good for us to recapture for us adults. Even on the knowledge/learning issue, children are natural learners, curious, not afraid to ask questions, excited to learn something new and very teachable.

[8thdaypriest]

6 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

There are so many admirable qualities of children that get "matured" out of them that would be good for us to recapture for us adults. Even on the knowledge/learning issue, children are natural learners, curious, not afraid to ask questions, excited to learn something new and very teachable.

Here in East Texas, I find most folks are actually AFRAID to look into any view of things that conflicts with their social support group (church, family, Christian school, etc.).  They are AFRAID of being shunned or ostracized. 

[Robert]

9 minutes ago, Tom Wetmore said:

Even on the knowledge/learning issue, children are natural learners, curious, not afraid to ask questions, excited to learn something new and very teachable.

Children are impressionable.  If you train a child to believe that there's no God he/she will probably grow up to be an atheist. That's why the Scriptures tell us to "Train children in the right way, and when old, they will not stray." Proverbs 22:6 

What Christ desires is simple child-like faith in His Word instead of questioning everything we read in the Scriptures.

[8thdaypriest]

16 minutes ago, Rossw said:

8thday, you're last post is very agreeable but is not an accurate response to my intention. Of course, it's my fault if I haven't been clear. No where have I said there is saving grace in knowledge. My intent from the start is if a modern prophet did/does exist with a Biblically consistent message relevant to our time why would I limit myself from God's word?

Of course - IF the LORD empowered/inspired a prophet (or prophetess) at any point after the books we accept as Bible were printed and put together as "the Scriptures" - of course, God's people would do well to listen to that prophet.  The problem is: How do we validate the divine inspiration of such a prophet?  Was Ellen White such a prophet?  

The word translated as "prophet" means "one who speaks for another".  The Evil One has his prophets, and the LORD His prophets.  And then there are wanna-be prophets, or people who just want attention and power.  So we have to TEST the spirits.   

1.  "To the Law and to the Testimony, if they speak not according to this word . . ."  

In my opinion, some of Ellen White's visions and messages are NOT "according to this Word" (1844; "shut door"; "three beings of the heavenly Trio"; the entire Gog-Magog army made up of "the rest of the dead"). 

She also wrote many statements concerning health, which have been shown inaccurate with greater scientific discovery ("swollen heads and deformed limbs" caused by masturbation;  volcanic activity happen when the LORD causes coal and oil to burn under the earth [The Spirit of Prophecy Volume One]  pg. 810;  amalgamation of man and animal "seen in certain races of men" [Spiritual Gifts Volume Three   pg.75]. 

2.  Did the "prophet" make any predictions of events to come, that  actually CAME TO PASS?  Concerning EGW - no.  She did make a prediction which did NOT come to pass. 

“I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: ‘Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.’"  Testimonies for the Church  Volume 1 pg.131-132 (1856); Spiritual Gifts Volume 4B pg.18

    Comment:  Everyone who attended the conference has been dead for many years.

The LORD validated Elijah, Elisha, Nathan, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel and other prophets - in the eyes of the people - BY giving predictions of events to come, which events came to pass.  We have no validation of EGW, by this means.  

EGW predicted that Old Jerusalem will never be built up.  I wonder - if another Temple IS built on that Mount, will Seventh-day Adventists finally let go of Ellen White?   Such a Temple would prove her false. 

"I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time, to keep them from throwing their whole interest into the present work of the Lord, and to cause them to neglect the necessary preparation for the day of the Lord.”
                                                                      A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White, pg.62

    Note: It seems clear to me from the Bible prophecies, that a great closing work will be done for the Jews.  The final events leading up to the return of Christ are given in relation to Jerusalem.  I believe the Temple will be rebuilt and Antichrist will sit in that Temple "showing himself that he is god". 

Guess we will just have to wait to see. 

 

 

[Tom Wetmore]

1 hour ago, Robert said:

Children are impressionable.  If you train a child to believe that there's no God he/she will probably grow up to be an atheist. That's why the Scriptures tell us to "Train children in the right way, and when old, they will not stray." Proverbs 22:6 

What Christ desires is simple child-like faith in His Word instead of questioning everything we read in the Scriptures.

Simple child-like faith and questioning everything are not mutually exclusive.  And to split a hair with you, our faith is not in the words of Scripture, but rather in the One that Scripture speaks of.

[CoAspen]

If you have small children or grandchildren.........

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Simple child-like faith and questioning everything are not mutually exclusive.  

.....questioning is how they learn and to deny that is not understanding the child like mind. They learn from questions answered. It is the answers that help them along in that path of trusting and faith.

 

  The questions are not because of doubt, but rather to understand and learn. They are simple questions and they trust the answers. "Well, thats what Daddy told me!!"

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, Robert said:

If you train a child to believe that there's no God he/she will probably grow up to be an atheist. 

Sometimes they end up being powerful Christians, too.  On the other hand, some children raised in the church and a good Christian family end up being atheist reprobates as well.  People make their own choices.  I've seen plenty of examples on both sides.

[Gerr]

The most helpful discussion on inspiration for me was the introduction to the Great Controversy and a book on inspiration by a professor from Walla Walla whose name escapes me at the moment.

[Robert]

 

2 hours ago, CoAspen said:

They are simple questions and they trust the answers. "Well, that's what Daddy told me!!"

And there's the problem....Daddy might be wrong.  So again, it comes down to a child-like trust in Christ and we learn of Him through the Sculptures. 

[CoAspen]

Robert, you missed the point! Trusting in Dad is an example of innocence and love. Don't try to make it complicated!

 

[Robert]

1 minute ago, CoAspen said:

Robert, you missed the point! Trusting in Dad is an example of innocence and love. Don't try to make it complicated!

 

Also remember ignorance is bliss....Maybe question dad?  

 

[CoAspen]

[Robert]

15 minutes ago, CoAspen said:

[CoAspen]

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

5 hours ago, Gerry Cabalo said:

The most helpful discussion on inspiration for me was the introduction to the Great Controversy and a book on inspiration by a professor from Walla Walla whose name escapes me at the moment.

Gerry, are you thinking of Alden Thompson's book, "Inspiration:  Hard Questions, Honest Answers"?

[Gregory Matthews]

Or perhaps:  The Bible, Codebook or Casebook (or something like that.)