Prophetic Inspiration

[8thdaypriest]

On 8/6/2016 at 2:06 PM, Gerry Cabalo said:

The most helpful discussion on inspiration for me was the introduction to the Great Controversy and a book on inspiration by a professor from Walla Walla whose name escapes me at the moment.

This is a little off the subject.  Anyone here familiar with films by Adullam Films, directed by Christian J. Pinto.  I watched "A Lamp in the Dark;  The Untold History of the Bible" yesterday afternoon.  I could have been watching a movie of Great Controversy!!  Except it was much better documented.   It went through the thousand year effort of the Catholic Church to keep the Bible from the common people.  I had forgotten (if I ever knew) that the Catholic Church killed some 50 million people.  I'm just curious about the religious background of the films producers. 

[Rossw]

3 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

  It went through the thousand year effort of the Catholic Church to keep the Bible from the common people.  I had forgotten (if I ever knew) that the Catholic Church killed some 50 million people.  

Curious if the RCC acknowledges those killings ever took place.

What media did you use to watch the film? Netflix, DVD, etc?

[8thdaypriest]

16 minutes ago, Rossw said:

Curious if the RCC acknowledges those killings ever took place.

What media did you use to watch the film? Netflix, DVD, etc?

I used our Roku device.  I was looking for something like a Bible documentary to watch on Sabbath afternoon.  I like the film so much, I ordered the DVD from amazon. 

[Kevin H]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 7:28 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

I have thought that the name "Seventh-day Adventist Church" should be changed to "The Church of the Investigative Judgment".  The whole 1844, pre-advent "investigative judgment", is really the only distinguishing feature of the denomination.  There are several others who rest on the 7th Day Sabbath, eat clean foods, baptize by immersion, believe in "soul-sleep", etc.  But SDAs are the ONLY ones who believe that an "investigative judgment" began back in 1844.  And THAT belief was hardwired into the fundamental beliefs because of belief in the "inspiration" of Ellen White.  If the "great disappointment" had come and gone without her vision of "what took place in heaven" on October 22, 1844, that doctrine might also have come and gone.  

Oops.  I guess there isn't another denomination that teaches GOD is three co-equal, co-eternal divine beings.  That makes TWO distinguishing doctrines - both hardwired as doctrine because of belief in the "prophetic gift" of Ellen White. 

The Seventh-day Adventist view of the trinity is shared by some of the eastern orthodox and apparently with the second-temple Jewish version of the trinity, and what some Old Testament scholars are saying is implied in the Old Testament. (for further study: Studies in the Great Controvery, John W. Wood, South Lancaster Village church, also repeated in many of his works. http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=37 , http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=33 , and Jim Fleming's lecture series "Lest we forget: A history of Anti-Judaism in the church")

Although we are the only church that has all the pieces together in a doctrine called "The Investigative Judgment" beginning in the mid 1800s, which is a necessary aspect of the Great Controversy and one of the two main Adventists understandings  of hell fire. The idea comes from the culture of the ancient near east and has gotten into the Old Testament but is un noticed by people who are ignorant of the Baal and other ancient near eastern religions and cultures who seem to act like the Bible occurred in a vacuum.  And others hold bits and pieces of our Investigative Judgment. No one else has put them together like  we do, but you find bits and pieces spread out among different groups and fields of study in the ancient world. I think that if our doctrine was too strange that you would not find this group believing this part and that group believing that part. You are acting like someone insisting that there is no such thing as a Bicycle, but that there are big thin tires, and peddles and gears and frame and breaks and bicycle chain etc. Which other group do you want to give up a part of their belief so that our belief will be truly unique?

 

[Kevin H]

On ‎8‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 8:44 PM, Rossw said:

Don't forget a big and important one which ties into the IJ. Jesus IS NOT our scape goat!

Rossw, you are showing your ignorance here... There are different applications of scripture. When you look at getting sin away from us indeed we agree with John the Baptist who said "Behold the Lamb of God who Scape goats the sins of the world."  But when it comes to the questions such as will the questions of the great controversy show God to be wrong or will the lies of Satan fall on him and his selfishness as the source of the sin problem? and while Jesus has thrown my sins away as far as the east is from the west, and my sin is blotted out, sadly Satan has not allowed Jesus to bear his role in our sins. How many people did Hitler kill? On the one hand not that many, but on the other hand he killed millions and shares the guilt for those who have committed those atrocities. Satan is our partner as Hitler was the partner of what those other people did. Jesus has scapegoat my role and wants to scapegoat Satan's role but Satan refuses to let him do it, so thus he scapegoats it himself.

[Rossw]

Are you implying Jesus is the scape goat of Leviticus 16?

20 minutes ago, Kevin H said:

 "Behold the Lamb of God who Scape goats the sins of the world."  

Interesting translation. Can you give the source of the quotation? A bit interesting calling Jesus the lamb of God who "scape goats" in the same sentence. 

Kevin, is Jesus Azazel?

[Kevin H]

On ‎8‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 0:48 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

Of course - IF the LORD empowered/inspired a prophet (or prophetess) at any point after the books we accept as Bible were printed and put together as "the Scriptures" - of course, God's people would do well to listen to that prophet.  The problem is: How do we validate the divine inspiration of such a prophet?  Was Ellen White such a prophet?  

The word translated as "prophet" means "one who speaks for another".  The Evil One has his prophets, and the LORD His prophets.  And then there are wanna-be prophets, or people who just want attention and power.  So we have to TEST the spirits.   

1.  "To the Law and to the Testimony, if they speak not according to this word . . ."  

In my opinion, some of Ellen White's visions and messages are NOT "according to this Word" (1844; "shut door"; "three beings of the heavenly Trio"; the entire Gog-Magog army made up of "the rest of the dead"). 

She also wrote many statements concerning health, which have been shown inaccurate with greater scientific discovery ("swollen heads and deformed limbs" caused by masturbation;  volcanic activity happen when the LORD causes coal and oil to burn under the earth [The Spirit of Prophecy Volume One]  pg. 810;  amalgamation of man and animal "seen in certain races of men" [Spiritual Gifts Volume Three   pg.75]. 

2.  Did the "prophet" make any predictions of events to come, that  actually CAME TO PASS?  Concerning EGW - no.  She did make a prediction which did NOT come to pass. 

“I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: ‘Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.’"  Testimonies for the Church  Volume 1 pg.131-132 (1856); Spiritual Gifts Volume 4B pg.18

    Comment:  Everyone who attended the conference has been dead for many years.

The LORD validated Elijah, Elisha, Nathan, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel and other prophets - in the eyes of the people - BY giving predictions of events to come, which events came to pass.  We have no validation of EGW, by this means.  

EGW predicted that Old Jerusalem will never be built up.  I wonder - if another Temple IS built on that Mount, will Seventh-day Adventists finally let go of Ellen White?   Such a Temple would prove her false. 

"I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up; and that Satan was doing his utmost to lead the minds of the children of the Lord into these things now, in the gathering time, to keep them from throwing their whole interest into the present work of the Lord, and to cause them to neglect the necessary preparation for the day of the Lord.”
                                                                      A Sketch of the Christian Experience and Views of Ellen G. White, pg.62

    Note: It seems clear to me from the Bible prophecies, that a great closing work will be done for the Jews.  The final events leading up to the return of Christ are given in relation to Jerusalem.  I believe the Temple will be rebuilt and Antichrist will sit in that Temple "showing himself that he is god". 

Guess we will just have to wait to see. 

 

 

There are other tests, but I see that you use two of the popular things that have been taught in our church for about 60 years, while the first one is pretty good, the second one is simply wrong. It was eventually pointed out to the person who wrote that list and he saw the error of his ways, but by that time his list has become traditional. But it is wrong. That is reading more into those proof texts from what they are actually saying.

The Deuteronomy text is saying that in something like Isaiah's Immanuel prophecy, if that child was not born, then the king could continue to worry about his enemies for years to come. A proper application was, I forgot the details, but Graham Maxwell tells a story about this one old lady who claimed to have a message from God and to prove it she, despite being elderly, was pregnant and was going to give birth. People asked Graham Maxwell what to do about her, Graham's response was "Wait 9 months." It is NOT telling us that each and every prophecy needs to be fulfilled. The Jeremiah text was in the context of a prophet predicting peace. Jeremiah says that the trend of prophets is to predict bad things, and that we are living in a world where things tend to go from bad to worst so that if something good is predicted and it actually comes to pass this is so unusual that it must be a miracle.

1. Prophecies are conditional upon response. They are given to either encourage us to go the right direction, or warn us if we are going in the wrong direction.

The 70th week prophecy was PARTIALLY fulfilled in the literal 70th week.  Other parts were no fulfilled and will have to cycle around again. This has confused people into thinking that the 70th week was cut off and placed at the end of time. No the 70 weeks were literal. Had all the conditions been fulfilled there would not have needed to be a second coming. Jesus would have been in the grave 3 1/2 years, sometime during those 3 1/2 years Satan could have come claiming to be Christ and worshiped in the temple. The wise would have realized this was a fulfillment of prophecy and that the true Messiah was the one they killed They would throw Satan out and Satan would gather together nations who rejected the gospel, fighting those still deciding but not bothering MOST (not all) the apostates (Edom, Moab and some of Amon), since they are his already. While he was battling south west of Israel rumors from the North and East  would have made him rush back to Israel. That rumor would be that Michael had stood up... there would have been a great eschatological  war where the nations that joined Satan against Israel and the nations that joined with Israel, and those in Israel and the nations that joined with her but who have not personally accepted the gospel would die. While some texts look like it might be caused by battle; others clarify that they are actually killed by their heart failing them as they see the Messiah is all his glory.

2.  With prophets we need to distinguish between the framework and the ideas they use to try to share that framework. The ideas and illustrations and applications may be wrong but the framework is infallible. With prophets we Need to find the Underlying Structure and see how they hold up.

In this prophecy you quoted about Jerusalem never being rebuilt. Mrs. White is dealing with dispensationalism and fundamentalism. The land of Israel was the center of the ancient world. The major trade routes from Europe. Africa and Asia had to pass through this land bridge. The Old Testament, especially Deuteronomy 4 (some of the details are filled in by other passages) gives two potential histories for Israel; either they are faithful and stay in the land and evangelize to these trade caravans and as others hear stories about this group of people who were not worshiping and trying to appease all these different gods and instead of being punished by the gods they were being blessed, making others want to look into why these atheists were being blessed and then learning the gospel which would lead to the Messianic kingdom. Or else they would be unfaithful and God would send them curses to try to get them to change. If nothing else worked they would be sent into exile where they were to share with others their unfaithfulness and God's faithfulness and thus spread the Gospel by going into all the world. If they were faithful with exile theology the exile would end in a second great exodus where the Messiah would take them home.

As we know, they were not faithful in the land. They went into exile but they were not faithful there. So they were given another 490 years of land theology. (Note: It was 490 years from David to the end of the exile.) They again were not faithful so Jesus told us to go into all the world (a return to exile theology) and as we share the Gospel with the whole world he, the Messiah will come for a glorious exodus to our heavenly home.

In trying to deflect the application of the little horn from the pope, in the counter reformation the Catholic church offered two alternatives: One was saying that the Bible was only talking about things in history and it thus has no effect on our day. Or else that it was places in the future and that the Old Testament does not describe the church age and that Israel has to fulfill land theology in exact detail and that the church has to be taken out of the way.

Mrs. White's principle is that Deuteronomy 4's land theology does not fit our day and age. We are no longer bound by the donkey and camel caravans for world wide trade. We no longer have those trade caravans passing through the ancient intersection of the world. We no longer need the merchants to bring us the news of their travels. We now have worldwide shipping and airflights that can fly over Israel. We have mass communications. God can, and we will see more of the Jews being used by God like how he used Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heshel. Whether they live in earthly Jerusalem or New York City, they still must use the methods of exile theology.

Jerusalem has not been restored as the center of the world for the trade caravans to pass through and bring rumors about these people who are not trying to appease the gods but are still being blessed. We see that the conditions for land theology has changed. This is the principle behind Mrs. White's quote. That principle has stood the test of time.

But many are going to suffer because of the false understanding of Jerusalem that Mrs. White was warning us against. The Christians are expecting Israel to be restored so they can be raptured away, and that there will be a great war in the middle east that ends with the second coming. Among Jews is the belief that there will be a great war there and the Messiah comes to end it. (and there are Jews who question this and are worried that Christians are trying to push the Jews and Muslims into a war to try to fulfill these prophecies and feel manipulated by Christians. God is working with these people). Among Muslims are people who are expecting a war in the middle east and Jesus come to stop the war and prepare the world for Mohamad's return.

All three groups are suffering from this belief. One group who is suffering even more (and time for an advertisement) is the Arab Christian community. The wall that helps keep Israel safe has cut off the Arab Christian community and makes it more difficult to get there and thus less time for tourists to help this economy. I would like to encourage you to plan a trip to Israel, and help BOTH the Jewish AND the Bethlehem Christian community. If you cannot get there (and please go) there are people who are selling the olivewood crafts. For more information on how they are being hurt and how to help please go to: http://www.anastas-bethlehem.com/about-us/ The Jewish community is also hurt because the press makes it sound much more dangerous than it actually is over there. While there are many good tours and you can go on your own, http://www.biblicalresources.net/ frequently has tours and they are very moderate.

In addition to the problems in the above paragraph; I would not be surprised if in pushing the dispensationalist/fundamentalist agenda in all the groups that the people there are pushed into a war and "Jesus" comes and stops it. Whether or not a physical temple will be built or not, in this way Satan can come and sit in the temple worshiped as God and encouraging people to accept the antichrist. (try to find, some copies still float around; the John W. Wood Last day Events series Southern New England campmeeting 1976)

Also for study may I recommend: http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=44 and http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=45 )

Thus while Mrs. White's specific application of the principle we can find an error, the principle that she was trying to teach in this is error free.

[Kevin H]

1 hour ago, Rossw said:

Are you implying Jesus is the scape goat of Leviticus 16?

Interesting translation. Can you give the source of the quotation? A bit interesting calling Jesus the lamb of God who "scape goats" in the same sentence. 

Kevin, is Jesus Azazel?

No Jesus is not Azazel, but that there are two different ways of applying the scape goat of Leviticus 16 and both are correct depending on it's context. One of these is to Azazel. But the word John the Baptist said for "Taketh away" is now known to be the Jewish reference for the scape goat. (see: http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=33 )

[Rossw]

Would My previous statement to 8thday be correct in that all other Christian denominations except SDA teach Jesus is Azazel of Leviticus 16?

Probably many SDA's believe that too.

[Rossw]

13 minutes ago, Kevin H said:

No Jesus is not Azazel, but that there are two different ways of applying the scape goat of Leviticus 16 and both are correct depending on it's context. One of these is to Azazel. But the word John the Baptist said for "Taketh away" is now known to be the Jewish reference for the scape goat. (see: http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=33 )

Your reference is a bit obscure, Kev. Are there other sources that won't cost 20? I'm interested in the book but have blown my book budget at thriftbooks.com for the month.

[Kevin H]

3 minutes ago, Rossw said:

Would My previous statement to 8thday be correct in that all other Christians except SDA apply Jesus to Azazel of Leviticus 16?

I have to confess that I was having some trouble following what you were saying in your comment. I know that there are people who accuse us of believing that it is Satan rather than Christ who saves us because we teach that Satan is bearing our sins.  But the study on Azazel helps to show that we are indeed correct in our application of the scape goat to Satan in the types of applications that we find Mrs. White doing. But that does not lessen how Jesus bears our sins away from us. this is also indicated in Psalm 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us. which referring to the two directions of the two goats on the day of Atonement. The one goat east into the sanctuary and the other west into the wilderness.

Just read your reply; I'm sorry that is the book that I can recommend. However from the Bible I can recommend Psalm 103:12, and also from the Adventist understanding of the 70 weeks of years. In John Jesus' ministry starts with the announcement that Jesus is the lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world, which is a reference to Jesus starting his ministry at the fullness of time on the day of atonement that starts the 70th week and having John the Baptist start this right on time according to our understanding on the day of atonement by referring to the scape goat, then has a 3 1/2 year ministry (bringing us to the midst of the week) where he dies on Passover and John ties together the Passover lamb with the scape goat.  

[8thdaypriest]

12 hours ago, Kevin H said:

The Seventh-day Adventist view of the trinity is shared by some of the eastern orthodox and apparently with the second-temple Jewish version of the trinity, and what some Old Testament scholars are saying is implied in the Old Testament. (for further study: Studies in the Great Controvery, John W. Wood, South Lancaster Village church, also repeated in many of his works. http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=37 , http://www.biblicalresources.net/product.cfm?product=33 , and Jim Fleming's lecture series "Lest we forget: A history of Anti-Judaism in the church")

Although we are the only church that has all the pieces together in a doctrine called "The Investigative Judgment" beginning in the mid 1800s, which is a necessary aspect of the Great Controversy and one of the two main Adventists understandings  of hell fire. The idea comes from the culture of the ancient near east and has gotten into the Old Testament but is un noticed by people who are ignorant of the Baal and other ancient near eastern religions and cultures who seem to act like the Bible occurred in a vacuum.  And others hold bits and pieces of our Investigative Judgment. No one else has put them together like  we do, but you find bits and pieces spread out among different groups and fields of study in the ancient world. I think that if our doctrine was too strange that you would not find this group believing this part and that group believing that part. You are acting like someone insisting that there is no such thing as a Bicycle, but that there are big thin tires, and peddles and gears and frame and breaks and bicycle chain etc. Which other group do you want to give up a part of their belief so that our belief will be truly unique?

 

Kevin,

I did NOT SAY that I don't believe in a pre-advent judgment.  I said I don't believe it began back in 1844 and still continues after 172 years. 

I DO believe that Jesus will go before the Heavenly court, to receive the dominion.  I just believe the Fall Feast prophecies will be fulfilled LIKE the Spring Feasts were fulfilled. 

The Passover TYPES were fulfilled within ONE SINGLE DAY.  Feast Fruits TYPES were fulfilled on ONE SINGLE DAY.  Pentecost Feast prophecies were fulfilled within ONE SINGLE DAY.   And I believe the Day of Atonement TYPES will also be fulfilled within ONE SINGLE DAY.  That's why it's called The DAY of Atonement.  Jesus will go before the Heavenly Court, receive the dominion, come out of the Temple (Heaven itself) to bless His waiting people, and banish the Scapegoat - all on the same DAY.  

Why do SDAs call it the "Investigative Judgment"?  Do you seriously believe that Jesus needs to look thru any records to figure out whose hearts belong to Him.  He said, "I KNOW My sheep."  He doesn't need any time to "investigate". 

The SUBJECT of the judgment described in Daniel 7:9-10 is Jesus Himself.  We are only involved in a secondary sense.  When Jesus is given the dominion, that dominion includes every human being within His dominion, every human who has ever lived.  At that DAY Jesus will judge those within His dominion.  He already KNOWS them. 

[Kevin H]

Good post 8thday priest. But I don't see your understanding as automatically in conflict with my understanding. As we look at how The Bible quotes itself, or how Mrs. White quotes the Bible and herself we find that they fall into 3 different categories: Exegesis (wanting to study what a text said to the original audience) Analogy (making applications of the principles to later time periods and events.) and a homiletical usage (using the words because the words describe something else perfectly even though it is not an exegesis nor even an analogy of the text.)

As for these 3 ways, prophets use the least exegesis. Most of their quotes are making analogies or a homiletical usage. Mrs.  White would tell us (not in these words, but says words that mean) that exegesis is OUR job, not hers.

Ok, so how does this relate to your post: The Bible is written very artistically and often in poetry. Poems have several layers of meaning. So with the Bible. (Now don't confuse this with Desmond Ford's belief that the exegesis can mean this and that and the other thing. No there is ONE exegesis, but there can be multiple analogies and homiletical applications.) Many, not all, of our arguments would be like arguing over Isaiah 7:14 and Matthew 1:23. Have you ever noticed how stupid Matthew looks if we were to picture Isaiah having the birth of Jesus on his mind. King Ahaz was worried about a couple of kings that were threatening him with war. Isaiah is trying to get Ahaz to trust in the Lord and was telling Ahaz that a child will be born and before the child knows right from wrong that these kings that Ahaz was worried about would no longer be a problem. If Isaiah was looking 500 years into the future, can you picture the logic: King Ahaz, you are worried about these kings, but in 500 years a baby will be born and before he knows right from wrong you will not have to worry about these kings anymore. Just hold on for only 500 years and they will no longer be a threat.

No, Isaiah was not talking about Jesus. But Matthew could take the principle of the promised child to point people to Jesus. th

Another example: We read in the Bible about the stars falling and sun going dark and moon turning to blood. We apply this to the dark day of 1798 and the meteor shower of 1833.

Exegetically the context was that the temple in Jerusalem would fall. Not one stone left upon another. Normally when a god's temple fell that god could no longer be worshiped.  And the sun, moon and stars were the false gods. Jesus was saying that when the temple to the true God falls, rather than his worship being stopped, all of these false gods will fall at the approach of the Gospel giving the good news about the true God.

So what about 1798 and 1833? We did not need to see the dark day or the red moon or a more impressive meteor shower, but they did bring people's minds to the idea that these prophecies were being fulfilled. And what we find on earth at this time was the rise of the great Missionary Societies, the Sunday School movement to both study the Bible and to finance the missionary societies, and the Bible societies. With these three events paganism was falling like it never did except in the days of the apostles. This prophecy was being fulfilled in the Mission societies, Bible societies and Sunday School movement. In Baalam's prophecy Jesus was the true star, but since the wisemen were expecting a literal star a star was given.

With the Investigative Judgment what we find is that when one of the cycles of the 2300 evenings-mornings came around that a process will begin of investigation that leads us to being able to stand in Satan's last day attack. Yom Kippur 1844 was ONE of the dates that fit the cycle, Just before this cycle started Edward Robinson had explored the holy land and his study opened the door to the rediscovery of the ancient world: Biblical Geography, archaeology, which lead to understanding the languages better (and the Rosetta Stone was also translated). Since the mid 1800s we have been able to study the Bible in a way that would make Luther and Tyndale and Wesley green with envy. This is a process where in heaven the angels and unfallen worlds are reviewing the lives of those who in one way or another claimed to accept God and they see if they truly did or not and if they did how did accepting Christ change their lives. This helps them to understand their own salvation better. And for us we entered into the age of exegesis. We did not learn everything on Robinson's trip. We had a big discovery with the Dead Sea Scrolls in the 1940s, a century into this process that began in the mid 1800s.

The investigative judgment did not begin until 1844 due to the world did not have Robinson's information nor the Rosetta stone translated until that time.  We are living in an age where we can investigate the scriptures as never before. Deeper understandings of the Bible can lead to a deeper understanding of the God of the Bible. This can lead to us loving Jesus even more. And this love and trust is what will help us get through the last days. It's taking so long because the process and the speed that we cooperate with this process.

 

 

[8thdaypriest]

Sorry Kevin.  All your big words did nothing to convince me that Jesus entered the Most Holy Place on October 22, 1844. 

And if Jesus did NOT enter the Most Holy Place back in 1844, then October 22nd was NOT the fulfillment of the Yom Kippur prophecy, and Ellen White was NOT a true prophet of Christ.

    “I was then shown what did take place in heaven as the prophetic periods ended in 1844. I saw that as the ministration of Jesus in the Holy place ended, and he closed the door of that apartment, a great darkness settled upon those who had heard, and had rejected the messages of Christ's coming, and they lost sight of him. Jesus then clothed himself with precious garments. Around the bottom of his robe was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. He had suspended from his shoulders a breastplate of curious work. And as he moved, it glittered like diamonds, magnifying letters which looked like names written, or engraven upon the breastplate. After he was fully attired, with something upon his head which looked like a crown, angels surrounded him, and in a flaming chariot he passed within the second veil."

Personally, I believe her description FITS better with the Pentecost which followed the resurrection.  On that DAY Jesus was glorified and became our High Priest in Heaven itself.  And Heaven is not divided into two "apartments". 

I believe that Jesus will go before the Heavenly Court on the last DAY of this age - to receive the Kingdom.  He will NOT be dressed in the DAILY glorious garb with bells and pomegranates. 

 

If I could have a big wish, I would want a grave to be opened in the Holy Land or somewhere Paul went.  In that grave would be a copy, or even the original manuscript of Matthew.  A letter would be found with the bones, saying the LORD told him to bury this writing, so that many years hence, when his grave is found, the world would have the TRUE Gospel. 

[Kevin H]

We have the TRUE gospel. And since the mid 1800s we have had archaeologists and linguists and historians who have been able to help us understand THIS gospel better.

[Gregory Matthews]

As many know, Club Adventist (Now Kingdom of Adventistan) is on a daily basis visited  by computer bots that select information here for use elsewhere.

The computer bots have now selected this thread for posting on the Internet.  I figure that as long as we can expect people to be coming here to read this thread, I might as well cause it to be  moved onto the 1st of our pages so all can easily read it.

 

Gregory Matthews

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