bonnie Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 Blue Lives matter and All lives matter were not a "slogan" until the push for all black lives matter became a battle cry of sorts. No one skin color matters more than any other skin color Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 2 hours ago, lazarus said: When has this happened? Give an example. Try the Ferguson riots which destroyed countless businesses of those that had absolutely nothing to do with the death of Micheal Brown. The "protests in Dallas that ended the life of five PO had nothing whatsoever to do with the death of the man they were protesting. Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 4, 2016 Author Share Posted August 4, 2016 Much of what bonnie says here is true, but her attitude and bias in presenting it show she has no clear understanding of the black people's plight. If she truly understood the situation, she might have more of a heart, and a greater leniency toward blacks who tend to indulge and defend some who may have committed punishable wrongs. Criminals are not the only ones to receive the police officers' bullets, and black people can see that more clearly than the average white person who ignorantly believes racial prejudices have been largely stamped out. I don't have any problem in acknowledging a bias against people that kill to make a point. Criminals are not the only ones to receive the police officers' bullets, and black people can see that more clearly than the average white person who ignorantly believes racial prejudices have been largely stamped out. Then there are those that ignorantly say....... who ignorantly believes racial prejudices have been largely stamped out. Personally I believe racism is getting worse by the day. By both black and white Fueled in part by some of our elected officials. Would like to hear a touching comment from Obama about the young girl in Detroit or the nine year old here that was shot by a black gang member while sitting at the table doing homework.Maybe she could have been his daughter,except there isn't any racial mileage to that. Governor Dayton shouts racism over a recent shooting before anyone even knows what happened or that the PO that was involved was not white. Maybe while having some of the parents of recent shooting victims at the DNC he could have found a spot for those grieving parents that have lost their children by other blacks. No mileage there either. When BLM acknowledge and creates some kind of backlash against other than those killed by PO I will believe they truly have the best interest of their race at heart. Then I will believe Black Lives Matter to them,all black lives Obviously they don't mind rioting,looting and killing for a cause Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossw Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 BLM did a march in my town a few weeks ago. I live in a very diverse town where whites are the minority. Even still, the March wreaked havoc along their path. Broke all the guide lines set forth by the police, defiantly stopped traffic, picked fights with locals(BLM were bused from out of town), and attempted to go to a shopping mall to cause chaos. Definitely not peaceful and definitely did not help their cause. Now my very diverse town is angry with the movement. Good way to get credibility huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 4, 2016 4 hours ago, bonnie said: Blue Lives matter and All lives matter were not a "slogan" until the push for all black lives matter became a battle cry of sorts. No one skin color matters more than any other skin color So what does blue live matter mean? Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 4, 2016 4 hours ago, bonnie said: The "protests in Dallas that ended the life of five PO had nothing whatsoever to do with the death of the man they were protesting. BLM did not cause the violence in Fergusson. The police in Dallas said the black lives matter protest was peaceful. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 4, 2016 1 hour ago, Rossw said: Now my very diverse town is angry with the movement. Good way to get credibility huh? 8 Alabama clergymen wrote to MLK expressing the same issues you raise. MLK's response was the letter from a Birmingham jail. The struggle for justice is messy, sometimes involves violence, from the state and those who can't wait for the wheels of justice to turn. MLK provoked much anger and resentment. BLM is not the the civil rights movement of the 60's but it still has justice on its side. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossw Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 43 minutes ago, lazarus said: 8 Alabama clergymen wrote to MLK expressing the same issues you raise. MLK's response was the letter from a Birmingham jail. The struggle for justice is messy, sometimes involves violence, from the state and those who can't wait for the wheels of justice to turn. MLK provoked much anger and resentment. BLM is not the the civil rights movement of the 60's but it still has justice on its side. That begs the question of if the concerns of BLM are legitimate in the same way as the civil rights movement of the 60s. I don't think they are. What is the lifestyle being promoted in the music of the black culture of this day? It isn't a message of Christian moral values directed to the police or fellow man. It isn't of social justice. The music of the culture is hooliganism and violence for the sake of self glorification from peers. As far as deaths by police. If the police are a fixed value and the total number killed by them is a variable it doesn't matter the minority population ratio. In total they still killed more white people. it's very hard to argue discrimination in those numbers.The next variable is if the killing by the police officer was justified. How many of those killed by police were a direct result of a criminal act involving a weapon and/or non compliance? If a cop pulls a gun on me personally I guarantee you I won't be under the influence and I will comply with demands. It's that simple. All lives matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 5, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, Rossw said: That begs the question of if the concerns of BLM are legitimate in the same way as the civil rights movement of the 60s. I don't think they are. What is the lifestyle being promoted in the music of the black culture of this day? It isn't a message of Christian moral values directed to the police or fellow man. It isn't of social justice. The music of the culture is hooliganism and violence for the sake of self glorification from peers. Wow, The music of the black culture? Lol, is this like the music of the white culture? What is that music? What is that music? Are you talking about hip hop, soul, jazz, gospel? CoAspen 1 Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 5, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, Rossw said: As far as deaths by police. If the police are a fixed value and the total number killed by them is a variable it doesn't matter the minority population ratio. In total they still killed more white people. it's very hard to argue discrimination in those numbers. I really don't follow your logic here. Please say it in another way. Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossw Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Are you telling me secular rap and hip hop don't have a violent and female degrading message? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 5, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2016 24 minutes ago, Rossw said: Are you telling me secular rap and hip hop don't have a violent and female degrading message? Everybody knows that gangster rap has violence and degrading lyrics, but you said " the music of the black culture". Seems like you are saying that you think black music is just gangster rap. It is not. There is a lot of hip hop that celebrates women and is positive messages. It's like saying that the music of the white culture is Metallica!!!!! If you know anything about hip hop you'll know that gangster rappers make most of their money from suburban white kids!!!!!! What do the concerns of BLM have to do with Ganster rap? You are way off base perusing this line of argument. If you check the three ladies who formed BLM they have nothing to do with gangster rap. Lol lol!!! Green Cochoa 1 Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossw Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 28 minutes ago, lazarus said: I really don't follow your logic here. Please say it in another way. We have to be careful how we interpret statistics on police caused deaths. Looking at the break down we can't determine if the police are discriminating against blacks because, still, the majority killed were white. Breaking down to the percentage of the population for each race only highlights how violent a particular race is compared to others if we assume most police shootings ARE justified and only a small minority of shootings are not justified. Admittedly minorities have had much difficulties in society but I don't think the police themselves are the cause. I think our political system deserves much more blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 2 hours ago, lazarus said: So what does blue live matter mean? Blue Lives Matter is in direct response to the killing of police officers by black men. The difference is the Black Lives Matter react only to black "victims" killed by police. The senseless slaughter of innocent people do not get a reaction from this crowd. Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 2 hours ago, lazarus said: BLM did not cause the violence in Fergusson. The police in Dallas said the black lives matter protest was peaceful. The Dallas protest was peaceful till it wasn't http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/suspect-trooper-death-black-lives-matter-backer-article-1.2360320 ww.breitbart.com/texas/2015/08/28/black-activists-called-for-lynching-and-hanging-of-white-people-and-cops/ Suspect in trooper’s death was a ‘Black Lives Matter ... www.nydailynews.com/.../suspect-trooper-death-black-lives-matter... Suspect in Kentucky trooper’s shooting death was a ‘Black Lives Matter’ advocate in St ... was a 'Black Lives Matter' advocate who protested following Michael ... Black Lives Matter: 'Pigs In A Blanket, Fry 'Em Like … dailycaller.com/2015/08/29/black-lives-matter...blanket-fry-em-like... Aug 29, 2015 · Black Lives Matter Protesters Chant: ‘Pigs In A Blanket, Fry ‘Em Like Bacon’ [VIDEO] Shock Audio: Self-Proclaimed Black Lives Matter Activist ... www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/09/02/shock-audio-self-proclaimed... An apparent Black Lives Matter activist reportedly delivered a shocking and violently racist rant during a live Internet broadcast on BlogTalkRadio Tuesday night, ... Do black lives really matter? Glenn reads the stunning ... www.glennbeck.com/2014/12/04/do-black-lives-really-matter-glenn... Do black lives really matter? Glenn reads the stunning list of black people murdered in Chicago being ignored by activists and protesters 'Black Lives Matter' Calls for 'Fryin Pigs' at Minnesota ... politicalhotwire.com/current-events/129617-black-lives-matter... 254 POSTS FIRST POST: AUG 31, 2015 Aug 31, 2015 · You simply have no idea do you? If cops felt their lives were in ...Members banned from ... 221Thanks. Top; All; Thread: 'Black Lives Matter' Calls for … Black Lives Matter | International Socialist Review isreview.org/issue/96/black-lives-matter There have been Black Lives Matter protests in every ... called for a moratorium on ... Gurley was an unarmed Black man shot to death by an NYPD officer as he ... F*** Yo Flag Movement Calls For Black Lives Matter ... www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/09/09/fukyoflag-moveme Members of the Black Lives Matter splinter group Fuk Yo Flag are threatening violence on September 11 in videos ... After posting a recent video that called for ... Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 5, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2016 8 minutes ago, bonnie said: Blue Lives Matter is in direct response to the killing of police officers by black men. The difference is the Black Lives Matter react only to black "victims" killed by police. The senseless slaughter of innocent people do not get a reaction from this crowd. You didn't answer my question. Does it mean that only police lives matter? Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 5, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2016 Bonnie, in the civil rights movement various leading groups were accused of promoting violence or being violent. The white right wing news outlets are doing now what others did then. CoAspen 1 Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 If Black Lives Matter to the black community ,all black lives should matter. Not just the black life that will give them a little more political clout,but all black lives. Those that give them media attention and those that don't. The small black children in Detroit recently killed thru no fault of their own should cause at least as much outrage,grief and anger as the one acting in a aggressive manner towards an arresting officer. Had any of those children been killed by a white PO,you can bet there would have been a backlash. There should be the same concern for cleaning up their own back yard as taking on the Police dept. Where there has been a wrongful death,one completely uncalled for by an out of control PO there should be anger and severe consequences,but should not be reserved for just that. The literally hundreds of innocent black children and adults killed by other blacks far out number those killed by PO. Maybe just a little recognition that the black community really has a problem in that area. Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted August 5, 2016 Moderators Share Posted August 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, Rossw said: We have to be careful how we interpret statistics on police caused deaths. Looking at the break down we can't determine if the police are discriminating against blacks because, still, the majority killed were white. Breaking down to the percentage of the population for each race only highlights how violent a particular race is compared to others if we assume most police shootings ARE justified and only a small minority of shootings are not Clearly you make certain assumptions that are not necessarily supported by the data. Why are you assuming most shootings are justified? Your belief is that the police are fundamentally honest. Your believe that the judicial system fundamentally serves in the interests of the people. The justice department determined that the Furguson police department was corrupt and had racist practices. Green Cochoa 1 Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 15 minutes ago, lazarus said: You didn't answer my question. Does it mean that only police lives matter? In response to the Black Lives Matter slogan regarding PO,Blue Lives Matter does reflect police lives. That is a slogan that we would not be hearing if it weren't for the certainty of the black community that every time a black person is killed by a PO it is racism. So it of course it follows that all police officers are at risk. Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 16 minutes ago, lazarus said: Bonnie, in the civil rights movement various leading groups were accused of promoting violence or being violent. The white right wing news outlets are doing now what others did then. I see. That means the black community has clean hands and has not in many cases been responsible for or caused violence. All those white right wing news outlets are to blame. I guess that works for you,it doesn't for me. There are racists black people,there are racist white people. Yes,there are PO are racists or power trippers. There are black people that are racists and power trippers. There are criminal black people and criminal white people. Both will blame the PO Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonnie Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 This still doesn't have much to do with someone demanding punishment for someone saying All Lives Matter. Like it or not the black community doesn't have the right to dictate that a fellow student cannot use that phrase,anymore than the white community has any right to dictate that a black student cannot use Black Lives Matter Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossw Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 24 minutes ago, lazarus said: Everybody knows that gangster rap has violence and degrading lyrics, but you said " the music of the black culture". I generally do not see other cultures producing such music in such popularity. What kind of music do you think violent criminals listen to? 24 minutes ago, lazarus said: Seems like you are saying that you think black music is just gangster rap. It is not. I did not insinuate that. Only that gangster rap is generally particular to the black community. 26 minutes ago, lazarus said: There is a lot of hip hop that celebrates women and is positive messages. I disagree. Most is degrading to women with no positive message. 28 minutes ago, lazarus said: It's like saying that the music of the white culture is Metallica!!!!! Bad comparison in a couple ways. 1: In my experience Metallica is not violent. 2: I did not name a particular band but a genre. Metallica is not a genre. 33 minutes ago, lazarus said: If you know anything about hip hop you'll know that gangster rappers make most of their money from suburban white kids!!!!!! I don't think the white kids identify with the struggles and actions spoken of in the message of the music. 37 minutes ago, lazarus said: What do the concerns of BLM have to do with Ganster rap? It's hard to take the movement seriously with the glorification of violence in music. It is counter intuitive to have a particular group speaking out against violence by the police yet have another group within the same culture promoting violence. Can't have it both ways. The killings by police seem to be more of a symptom of a over all violent society than the opression of 1 particular group. I still maintain all lives matter and violence is not just particular to black people. Of course there is white supremist music out there too but I would condemn the purchasing of such garbage. If white people were motivated to violence by music with the consequence of police killing whites I would not blame the police but look at other solutions like what are the motives of such violence. I once saw a person comment that we should just get rid of the police. Is that the proper solution? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rossw Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 8 hours ago, Green Cochoa said: While there may be truth on both sides of this discussion, the discussion itself is not helpful given its present context. Black people have been murdered for no reason at a seemingly much higher ratio than white people by the police in America of late. Mostly appears that way because of the media. 8 hours ago, Green Cochoa said: For it to succeed, though, it must absolutely remain a peaceful protest. The actions of a single extremist will counteract the influence of countless peaceful protestors. For whites to start a contrasting "all lives matter" appears to many as a clear indication of disagreement with the BLM movement and its concept that "black lives matter." Ironically, the emotional implication becomes, then, that black lives don't matter, even though the semantics indicate they do. Thus, such a movement as "all lives matter" in its present context becomes a myopic endeavor from the outset, and it will not have the positive effect its founders may have anticipated--and that gives them the benefit of the doubt, for it could easily be seen as a thinly veiled protest against the black movement. I think you're absolutely right that BLM must remain peaceful but the march in my home town had an attitude of deviant defiance . That attitude is what separates them from the legitimacy of the 60's in my opinion. Yes, if the BLM was truly genuine then ALM would amount to disingenuousness but I'm not sure that's truly the case. The biggest reason I'm personally skeptical of BLM is their demands are not clear. What solutions do they provide? Do statistics support the BLM concerns? These reasons are why the ALM movement started. ALM is the pragmatic solution to a confused unclear movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D_Bishop Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 My world view is heavily influenced by my beliefs system, namely present truth. Not necessarily the stuff that floats around here. My beliefs told me long time ago that things would get progressively worse and worse until there is a time of trouble that this world has never seen. Dan 12;1. I pull my head up and look around and I see all that coming to fruition. So, I am not all that surprised with various groups in society are in conflict with one another. Rossw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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