STUDENT-BODY-VP-UNDER-FIRE-FOR-ALL-LIVES

[lazarus]

19 hours ago, bonnie said:

In response to the Black Lives Matter slogan regarding PO,Blue Lives Matter does reflect police lives. That is a slogan that we would not be hearing if it weren't for the certainty of the black community that every time a black person is killed by a PO it is racism. So it of course it follows that all police officers are at risk.

It's difficult to have a productive discussion if you can't see the contradictions in your position. If black lives matter means ONLY black lives matter then blue lives matter would mean the same.

[bonnie]

Yes,as used in response to Black Lives Matter, BLue Lives Matter refer to PO.   By lack of action or attention BLM make an obvious distinction.BLM when it is a black individual  killed by a PO. The circumstances don't matter,it is the instant rally cry of racism.

So many black people are killed by black people and it is totally ignored and the rage and rioting are only used when there is political advantage to be gained. Literally hundreds die needlessly every year without so much as a whimper from the BLM crowd. But don't forget,Black Lives Matter.

Blue Lives Matter regardless if the assailant is white,black or whatever.

Still haven't gotten around to the subject.

Why should saying All lives matter be grounds for a student to face this kind of punishment,anymore than those saying Black lives matter should be punished as she was?

 

[lazarus]

15 hours ago, Rossw said:

It's hard to take the movement seriously with the glorification of violence in music.

Your argument is simplistic at best. Because some black young people listen to gangster rap you can't take black lives matter seriously?

You conveniently ignored my comments about BLM founders and it seems you clearly know very little about the black community. 

I have a lot of black young people in my circle who are doctors, lawyers, engineers who support BLM and have no time for Gangster rap but will listen to positive hip hop, gospel, classical, all kinds. I wonder why you have such a one dimensional view of black young people. 

Where do you meet them of talk to them. Is it at church? In you neighborhood? Shopping?

How much contact to you have with black young people on a week to week basis?

[lazarus]

Bonnie, I honestly find it difficult to follow what you are saying. The civil rights movement was not successful because people were not offended or upset by movement. It succeeded because the people were determined and committed to their cause. 

There were white folk who deployed your kind of arguments in the same kind of spirit but there were enough white people who were open enough to hear and walk with the movement. The same is true today. 

I am glad to say there are white pastors and white members and friends who will listen and sometimes will not agree with everything but will take the journey to greater understanding. 

[bonnie]

Being determined to succeed for civil rights is a little different than the random killing of PO. Every time a black person is killed,automatic it is racism and the "poor victim" was just standing there when a PO decides to shoot him because he is black.In time a different scenero starts to emerge.

The president decides that it is because of racism and he would be alive if he were white before he or anyone else has all the facts. Our governor decides it is racism and then OOPs,the PO isn't white. 

During the civil rights movement black people were not killing each other while claiming black lives really do matter. 

Does civil rights only include those that wish to use the slogan BLM? Or do those wishing to use all lives matter have civil rights as well?

 

[Rossw]

1 hour ago, lazarus said:

  have a lot of black young people in my circle who are doctors, lawyers, engineers who support BLM and have no time for Gangster rap but will listen to positive hip hop, gospel, classical, all kinds.

You might be on to something here.

[joeb]

First, in a land where freedom of speech is a guaranteed right there sure are a lot of people who hate freedom of speech, unless of course you agree with them then you can say and do whatever you want.

Black lives matter is NOT a grass roots response coming from the black community.  It is a political organization funded by George Soros.  That relationship makes it suspect immediately. 

I find it interesting, Lazarus, that your only response to having it pointed out to you that BLM is not active in places like Chicago where blacks are murdering blacks in historic numbers is snark.  BLM does nothing to address this problem publicly.  It's the 800 lb elephant in the room and when it's pointed out the snark and cries of racism come out quickly.  Why?  It seems to me the appropriate respose for that organization to make is become very active in reducing those deaths.  Instead they run around advocating death to cops.  Really?  The cops are the ones who catch and punish the murderers of those little black kids.  The cops are the ones who protect the black community in the vast majority of incidences.    

I have a prejudice against most cops.  Don't like them or trust them most of the time because of the negative experiences I've had with a few of them.  But, some cops have done me good turns too.  They're people just like the rest of us, and most of them become police officers because they want to "protect and serve".  Are there power trippers inside that group too?  Yup.  Guys who just love to throw their weight around.  I have to say, though, in spite of my built-in prejudice, that the power trippers are a pretty small minority.  

I've known, personally, a couple of power tripper cops.  They were not liked by very many people and trusted by even fewer.  They didn't care what color a person's skin was.  They just wanted to micro manage everyone they could see, throw their weight around, and be generally obnoxious on the job.  They lived for it.  Race had nothing to do with them being jerks.  They were equal opportunity.  

Where I lived in the 70's  there was a Mexican guy I knew whose father was in the pen for murder.  The kids followed the father's example of being outlaws, but they were actually pretty nice guys if you ignored the lawlessness.  One of the local staters hated this Mexican kid for a variety of reasons: kid had a really fast car, the kid sold pot, etc....  That stater would harrass him all the time.  Now, that same stater had it in for me too.  I had a really fast car.  I sold drugs on a semi-regular basis.  That stater would harass me every chance he got.  He pulled me over one time because, and I quote, "your takeoff left a bad impression on me".   I asked if there was excessive tire noise,  the mufflers were too loud, etc...  He replied that there wasn't, but still insisted my takeoff had left a bad impression on him.  He kept me pulled over for more than a half hour on that basis alone.  It was just harassment plain and simple.   It was just him doing what he always did.

Oh, the stater got his one night.  He was out drinking one night and went looking for the Mexican kid to "teach him a lesson".  The stater was 6'4" or so and weighed around 260 lbs.  The Mexican kid was 5'8" and weighed around 130 lbs.  He cleaned that stater's clock after the stater picked the fight and threw the first punch.   The stater couldn't see out of either eye.  His nose was broken and both cheeks, his lips, and one ear were cut up. The stater disappeared for about a year and then was back doing the same old things he always had....  Didn't learn anything.

 

Back to BLM.....  I find it really interesting that BLM always wants police protection for their demonstrations.  You'd think, by their political rhetoric, that they would be scared to death of being murdered by those same cops.  The fact that they aren't is demonstrated by their death to cops chants while being surrounded by cops.   To me it shows the utter hypocrisy of their so-called movement.

 

[Rossw]

Very good post Joeb. Entertaining to read too.

[lazarus]

1 hour ago, joeb said:

I find it interesting, Lazarus, that your only response to having it pointed out to you that BLM is not active in places like Chicago

I don't have the time or inclination to response to every piece of nonsense in a post. Additionally some don't even have the strength of character to accept the error. He's a little example.

You repeated the assertion that BLM is not active in Chicago.....I think if you had though about that for a few seconds you would know that can't be right. After reading the material below can you admit you are wrong?

http://www.salon.com/2016/08/05/black-lives-matter-activists-launch-abolition-square-encampment-demanding-reparations-end-to-broken-windows-policing/

http://blacklivesmatter.com/11-major-misconceptions-about-the-black-lives-matter-movement/

1. The movement doesn’t care about black-on-black crime. The idea that black-on-black crime is not a significant political conversation among black people is patently false. In Chicago, long maligned for its high rates of intraracial murder, members of the community created the Violence Interrupters to disrupt violent altercations before they escalate. However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic, whose goal is to suggest that black people don’t have the right to be outraged about police violence in vulnerable black communities, because those communities have a crime problem. The Black Lives Matter movement acknowledges the crime problem, but it refuses to locate that crime problem as a problem of black pathology. Black people are not inherently more violent or more prone to crime than other groups. But black people are disproportionately poorer, more likely to be targeted by police and arrested, and more likely to attend poor or failing schools. All of these social indicators place one at greater risk for being either a victim or a perpetrator of violent crime. To reduce violent crime, we must fight to change systems, rather than demonizing people.

[Rossw]

6 minutes ago, lazarus said:

However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic, whose goal is to suggest that black people don’t have the right to be outraged about police violence in vulnerable black communities, because those communities have a crime problem. The Black Lives Matter movement acknowledges the crime problem, but it refuses to locate that crime problem as a problem of black pathology. Black people are not inherently more violent or more prone to crime than other groups. But black people are disproportionately poorer, more likely to be targeted by police and arrested, and more likely to attend poor or failing schools. All of these social indicators place one at greater risk for being either a victim or a perpetrator of violent crime. To reduce violent crime, we must fight to change systems, rather than demonizing people.

BLM is a very confused movement if this is the logic behind it. If all races are violent(and they are), what is special about BLM? We should be promoting ALM. Who is the BLM movement appealing to if most crime is interracial and police instigated crime is much much less frequent? 

Who is BLM blaming for the socioeconomic problems? That isn't the police's fault. For that you'd have to look much higher into political policy and not a group of people.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

1 hour ago, Rossw said:

We should be promoting ALM [rather than BLM]

but that's ignoring the problem about which the Black Lives Matter group is trying to sound the alarm...  and that wouldn't be helpful at all.

From my perspective, "All Lives Matter" is a sweetly saccharin recent colloquialism that *sounds* great, but actually minimalizes / ignores the intent of "Black Lives Matter" — because the "All Lives Matter" phrase is just an end unto itself; nothing more needs to be said or done.   It's like saying "Amen" at the end of a prayer.  "Black Lives Matter," on the other hand, is trying to address the issues of inequality that, as much as many would prefer not to acknowledge, *do* exist, *do* require immediate attention, and *do* need to be brought to the national consciousness.

"All lives matter" is a passive statement.  "Black Lives Matter" is an active statement on a big problem.  (Please don't be sidetracked by the fringe individuals who want to use BLM as an excuse to kill law enforcement officers.  Didn't anyone see the concerned outpouring by the Black Community in Dallas and elsewhere in response to the police who were assassinated?)

[Rossw]

You put words in my mouth in the quote you provided, Pam. 

I have not made mention of fringe BLM members although the fringe and the core probably aren't too different.

All the evidence BLM has presented, or even the pro BLM members here, have just provided evidence of symptoms of problems for society as a whole and not problems particular to blacks. BLM makes a general society problem into a racial problem. Follow the money. There are those who want civil unrest in order to keep the masses in their place.

Let's start looking at the big picture in the context of a falling, failing world that will soon end. Things will not get better. Thats not fatalism but reality. Just try and make the best with what we've got and there ain't much left. 

Why don't blacks believe all lives matter but continue to pigeon hole themselves into a racial hole? BLM in the name itself is divisive.

[CoAspen]

Quote

Let's start looking at the big picture in the context of a falling, failing world that will soon end. Things will not get better. Thats not fatalism but reality. Just try and make the best with what we've got and there ain't much left. 

Another FTU moment, or traditionally MTP.

[Rossw]

6 minutes ago, CoAspen said:

Another FTU moment, or traditionally MTP.

Another fragmented incomplete thought. What have I not understood? Make me understand!

Do you write incomplete fragments to everyone you disagree with?

[bonnie]

Personally I don't think most of the black community supports the militant  and violent ,However they are not the ones that do the killing of police officers or kill so many black people in places like Chicago. 

I do wonder why those families don't rise up against so much slaughter by black assailants. Those killed by police needlessly or because of racism are important and needs to stop,but their numbers are minimal compared to all the rest. 

It is a given if a white PO kills a black suspect in the line of duty it is racism. No one worries about the details and they are off and running. I am sure that there are those PO that are racists or just plain power trippers and are guilty. But we are asked to believe every event that hits the news concerning a death of a black suspect is racist as a cause. This simply is not true.

If any of the "victims" that have been in the news so much lately had been killed by a black assailant it would have been a story on the local news if that.

A black child mistakenly killed by a PO is racism pure and simple. That same child killed by a black assailant is forgotten very quickly,no Sharpton,Obama or Jessie Jackson wringing their hands.

The young boy killed in Ohio,must have been heartbreaking for the parents and in a perfect world he would still b e alive. Screams of racism were immediate and yet that was not the cause.

But no one screaming racism retracted their statement. The PO should never have been hired,he was classified as unstable by his previous place of employment,yet he slipped thru the cracks. Unstable doesn't mean racist. This 12 year old acting like a 12 year old compounded the issue by pointing a toy gun at people in a park.The gun was realistic looking. He disregarded what the PO required him to do. A 12 year old with a loaded gun can kill you as quickly as a 22 year old.In this day and age none of mine would be in a park with any kind of a gun. The mother claimed not to know that her son had it.

We had a woman here that was attacked by her ex. He had a history of beating her severely,requiring hospitalization more than once. She obtained a restraining order against him and he of course ignored it. He came after her with a knife. Somehow she managed a call to 911 and with his violent history the SWAT team was sent along with other PO. He had the knife at her throat,had already cut her and said he would kill her. He was eventually shot and killed by the SWAT team.  Of course after the fact,the SWAT team killed him because he was black and the woman whose life had been saved sued the police dept.

 

Racism has been used so frequently for all situations it really begins to fall on deaf ears. It is used as a weapon  to shut up those that disagree with you as the student in the beginning of this topic.

I have no more right to demand punishment of those saying BLM as anyone has the right to demand punishment for me because I say All Lives Matter.

[Green Cochoa]

23 hours ago, bonnie said:

I see. That means the black community has clean hands and has not in many cases been responsible for or caused violence. All those white right wing news outlets are to blame. I guess that works for you,it doesn't for me.

bonnie,

In order to receive equal and fair treatment, it should not be required that a community have first demonstrated perfection.  No perfect community exists.  It is wrong to penalize a whole community for the few scoundrels in its midst.  No one here is saying black people have not committed any crimes.  I think the whole point of BLM is that white police officers have taken the horrible attitude of "shoot first, ask questions later" with black people in some unusually unjust circumstances--circumstances that would have gotten a strong public reaction already had they occurred with whites.  Consider the recent case (two weeks ago, I think) of a black worker at a mental institution who was in the street with one of the mental patients trying to bring him back into the facility.  Officers arrived and simply started firing.  The man was hit in the leg.  Neither he nor the patient had a gun.  He had done absolutely nothing wrong.  He even had his hands up.  When the "hands up, don't shoot" slogan obviously failed, the BLM approach began.  It seems far more likely the police in that situation would have been disciplined for not following proper protocols had the victim been white.  Instead, the officer was allegedly placed on "administrative leave" (something that happens almost always when an officer's gun is discharged, regardless of the circumstances) and the story barely made the news.  Cases like this appear to be far more common in situations where the victim is black.  When the victim asked the police why he'd been shot, all they could muster in response was "I don't know."  

White folks seem able to say only the same ignorant thing: "I don't know."  It's worse to belittle the blacks in their experience of injustice by minimizing the attempt to get a needed spotlight shone on the situation in proclaiming, lamely, that "all lives matter."  As if we didn't all already know that.  In fact, I suppose a dog's life would be included in "all."  But a dog cannot measure to the life of a man.  "Black lives matter" addresses a real, genuine state of prejudice that exists toward blacks and which most white people deny.  I'd give them the benefit of the doubt in saying most whites, due to their lack of exposure to the black experience, are simply ignorant of it.  They do not know, therefore, what they are doing with something like "ALM."

Blacks know what BLM is for--and the desperate cry for attention seems only to get repulsed by the very people who should be listening: the perpetrators of the injustice.

[Green Cochoa]

22 minutes ago, bonnie said:

Racism has been used so frequently for all situations it really begins to fall on deaf ears.

You've made your deaf ears apparent and clear.  

[bonnie]

So not agreeing with you or some others makes me racist . 

[Green Cochoa]

1 minute ago, bonnie said:

So not agreeing with you or some others makes me racist . 

No.  Stopping your ears, however, might.  It's one thing to disagree while listening to the balance of both sides.  It's quite another to claim fair-mindedness while not listening.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Rossw, please don't take personally what I wrote.  My post wasn't directly specifically towards you at all.  I only quoted a brief part of what you wrote as a starting point for what I wanted to write, as I don't feel using the phrase "All Lives Matter" really gives any meaningful point of dialogue; rather, it serves as an insensitive rebuttal to those who are trying to responsibly use the "Black Lives Matter" as a tool for change in the racial social inequities that are so endemic in the US.  

[bonnie]

14 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

bonnie,

In order to receive equal and fair treatment, it should not be required that a community have first demonstrated perfection.  No perfect community exists.  It is wrong to penalize a whole community for the few scoundrels in its midst.  No one here is saying black people have not committed any crimes.  I think the whole point of BLM is that white police officers have taken the horrible attitude of "shoot first, ask questions later" with black people in some unusually unjust circumstances--circumstances that would have gotten a strong public reaction already had they occurred with whites.  Consider the recent case (two weeks ago, I think) of a black worker at a mental institution who was in the street with one of the mental patients trying to bring him back into the facility.  Officers arrived and simply started firing.  The man was hit in the leg.  Neither he nor the patient had a gun.  He had done absolutely nothing wrong.  He even had his hands up.  When the "hands up, don't shoot" slogan obviously failed, the BLM approach began.  It seems far more likely the police in that situation would have been disciplined for not following proper protocols had the victim been white.  Instead, the officer was allegedly placed on "administrative leave" (something that happens almost always when an officer's gun is discharged, regardless of the circumstances) and the story barely made the news.  Cases like this appear to be far more common in situations where the victim is black.  When the victim asked the police why he'd been shot, all they could muster in response was "I don't know."  

White folks seem able to say only the same ignorant thing: "I don't know."  It's worse to belittle the blacks in their experience of injustice by minimizing the attempt to get a needed spotlight shone on the situation in proclaiming, lamely, that "all lives matter."  As if we didn't all already know that.  In fact, I suppose a dog's life would be included in "all."  But a dog cannot measure to the life of a man.  "Black lives matter" addresses a real, genuine state of prejudice that exists toward blacks and which most white people deny.  I'd give them the benefit of the doubt in saying most whites, due to their lack of exposure to the black experience, are simply ignorant of it.  They do not know, therefore, what they are doing with something like "ALM."

Blacks know what BLM is for--and the desperate cry for attention seems only to get repulsed by the very people who should be listening: the perpetrators of the injustice.

In order to receive equal and fair treatment, it should not be required that a community have first demonstrated perfection.  No perfect community exists.  It is wrong to penalize a whole community for the few scoundrels in its midst.

Nor should it be necessary to exaggerate or add to what was said to try to make your point. There hasn't been any suggestion that a entire community demonstrate perfection.  You are right a whole community should not be penalized but this is what you find some doing by automatically assuming any encounter with black suspects by white PO is because of racism. Without fail,when a black suspect is killed racism is screamed from coast to coast before any facts are known. 

I think the whole point of BLM is that white police officers have taken the horrible attitude of "shoot first, ask questions later" with black people in some unusually unjust circumstances--circumstances that would have gotten a strong public reaction already had they occurred with whites.

With the numerous white people that are killed,there is little strong public reaction. Any time someone is killed the circumstances should be throughly investigated.Before the shouts of racism.

 Consider the recent case (two weeks ago, I think) of a black worker at a mental institution who was in the street with one of the mental patients trying to bring him back into the facility.  Officers arrived and simply started firing.  The man was hit in the leg.  Neither he nor the patient had a gun.  He had done absolutely nothing wrong.  He even had his hands up.  When the "hands up, don't shoot" slogan obviously failed, the BLM approach began.  It seems far more likely the police in that situation would have been disciplined for not following proper protocols had the victim been white.  Instead, the officer was allegedly placed on "administrative leave" (something that happens almost always when an officer's gun is discharged, regardless of the circumstances) and the story barely made the news.  Cases like this appear to be far more common in situations where the victim is black.  When the victim asked the police why he'd been shot, all they could muster in response was "I don't know."  

This is not a usual case as far as I have read. Most are dealing with a less than savory character. Having a unsavory past doesn't mean you deserve to be shot,but the behavior of the suspect and their willingness to defy the command of a PO might shed some light on the end result. And most fall into that catagory 

Hands Up ,Don't Shoot slogan was based on a lie

 

 

White folks seem able to say only the same ignorant thing: "I don't know."  It's worse to belittle the blacks in their experience of injustice by minimizing the attempt to get a needed spotlight shone on the situation in proclaiming, lamely, that "all lives matter."  As if we didn't all already know that.  In fact, I suppose a dog's life would be included in "all."  But a dog cannot measure to the life of a man.  "Black lives matter" addresses a real, genuine state of prejudice that exists toward blacks and which most white people deny.  I'd give them the benefit of the doubt in saying most whites, due to their lack of exposure to the black experience, are simply ignorant of it.  They do not know, therefore, what they are doing with something like "ALM."

What you see as belittling blacks is quite different than others see it. You are entitled to your opinion and it is just that.  As for the spotlight I would like to see it shine on all black lives lost as well as all the other senseless killing.

Of course there is prejudice,but you seem to think that is one sided. Hardly.

Blacks know what BLM is for--and the desperate cry for attention seems only to get repulsed by the very people who should be listening: the perpetrators of the injustice.

 

The black opinion is not the only one that matters,it is no more or no less important than that of anyone else.

When racism is no longer used as an excuse for every ill,every wrong,every word someone doesn't like it ,when the demand to punish a student that has the audacity to disagree with BLM is not used perhaps when someone complains of racism,those that have been hammered at every turn with that accusation would give it more weight

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bonnie]

26 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

No.  Stopping your ears, however, might.  It's one thing to disagree while listening to the balance.  of both sides.  It's quite another to claim fair-mindedness while not listening.

And making assumptions as you do ? You are in no position to determine that I have not listened to both sides because I don't agree with you. A little close minded.

At present I am not in contact with a lot of black individuals. I worked with many for a number of years.They were not  only work place friends but after work hours.  The few that really didn't get along well with either black or white co-workers were those that beat the racist drum for the slightest issue.

There were a lot of frank discussions between us after hours. And contrary to your .. fair-mindedness while not listening, both sides listened and remained friends

The black co-workers by no means rolled over and played dead just to get along.Nor did they tolerate the constant "racist" talk by the few that wanted this to be focus of everything. 

 

[Green Cochoa]

Bonnie,

You point out facts that are simply out-of-context.  No one here is denying that many murders of blacks are intraracial.  It is a problem.  It is not the problem that BLM attempts to address.  Because BLM does not address it, you claim it is not a legitimate cause.  

It is simply unreasonable of you to demand that problem B be addressed before you will listen to the facts of problem A.  It appears you turn a blind eye to problem A to the point you do not recognize it as a problem at all.

Bonnie, it's easy for a white person to _think_ he or she is being fair-minded, unbiased, and unprejudiced, without realizing the truth.  Ignorance means more than ignorance of the black situation.  Ignorance entails also an ignorance of one's own ignorance.  Usually, the more ignorant a person is, the more confident.

You speak of having had some talks with blacks.  Have you gone shopping with them?  If so, have you noticed the store personnel keeping a much closer watch on them than on you?  If you noticed, did you think this treatment was necessary or fair?  Have you been in the car with them when the police pulled them over?  Were you chagrined at the treatment you observed?  Have you been personally acquainted with black teachers, doctors, and professionals?  Have you noticed how other whites, who may not be aware of their education or status, treat them?

Here's the thing: as long as the police in America take the same blind attitude of "I don't have a problem" that you appear to be taking, the racial inequalities will persist, and blacks will be victimized at their hands.  They are denying the problem.  Yet their actions show that they are afraid of blacks.  Police fear blacks more than whites, and react with a quick trigger.  But why are they afraid?  Why be afraid of the worker in the street trying to coax the autistic patient back into the facility?  Why fear his non-existent gun when his hands are up?  Why shoot him?  Until the police, and maybe white society in general, can truly face those questions with an attitude of honesty, no change can be expected.  Without change, unfortunately, America will be driven more and more toward a class war.  It is not right nor fair for black people to just shut up about racial injustices because a few white idealists think they should address their own internal issues first.  

To take this one step further: black people are still in a state of slavery, held there by whites, in America today.  It is almost a worse form of slavery than was experienced in the past.  It is an economic servitude.  Are you aware of this?

[Geoarrge]

The number of people who are killed by police and reported as "justifiable homicide" has been about 1000 per year lately, according to the FBI.  I don't know if that's an actual sharp upturn from the ~400/yr before 2014, or a change in record-keeping procedure.    The problem is that statistically, you can probably find a case that can be spun to fuel the outrage machine once a month at least.

[bonnie]

28 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

Bonnie,

You point out facts that are simply out-of-context.  No one here is denying that many murders of blacks are intraracial.  It is a problem.  It is not the problem that BLM attempts to address.  Because BLM does not address it, you claim it is not a legitimate cause.  

It is simply unreasonable of you to demand that problem B be addressed before you will listen to the facts of problem A.  It appears you turn a blind eye to problem A to the point you do not recognize it as a problem at all.

Bonnie, it's easy for a white person to _think_ he or she is being fair-minded, unbiased, and unprejudiced, without realizing the truth.  Ignorance means more than ignorance of the black situation.  Ignorance entails also an ignorance of one's own ignorance.  Usually, the more ignorant a person is, the more confident.

You speak of having had some talks with blacks.  Have you gone shopping with them?  If so, have you noticed the store personnel keeping a much closer watch on them than on you?  If you noticed, did you think this treatment was necessary or fair?  Have you been in the car with them when the police pulled them over?  Were you chagrined at the treatment you observed?  Have you been personally acquainted with black teachers, doctors, and professionals?  Have you noticed how other whites, who may not be aware of their education or status, treat them?

Here's the thing: as long as the police in America take the same blind attitude of "I don't have a problem" that you appear to be taking, the racial inequalities will persist, and blacks will be victimized at their hands.  They are denying the problem.  Yet their actions show that they are afraid of blacks.  Police fear blacks more than whites, and react with a quick trigger.  But why are they afraid?  Why be afraid of the worker in the street trying to coax the autistic patient back into the facility?  Why fear his non-existent gun when his hands are up?  Why shoot him?  Until the police, and maybe white society in general, can truly face those questions with an attitude of honesty, no change can be expected.  Without change, unfortunately, America will be driven more and more toward a class war.  It is not right nor fair for black people to just shut up about racial injustices because a few white idealists think they should address their own internal issues first.  

To take this one step further: black people are still in a state of slavery, held there by whites, in America today.  It is almost a worse form of slavery than was experienced in the past.  It is an economic servitude.  Are you aware of this?

You point out facts that are simply out-of-context.  No one here is denying that many murders of blacks are intraracial.  It is a problem.  It is not the problem that BLM attempts to address.  Because BLM does not address it, you claim it is not a legitimate cause.  

It is simply unreasonable of you to demand that problem B be addressed before you will listen to the facts of problem A.  It appears you turn a blind eye to problem A to the point you do not recognize it as a problem at all.

 

What I find unreasonable and a little less than honest is your persistence in exaggerating what has been said. It has not even been a suggestion that police brutality or racism doesn't exist. Nor has it been said that all black on black murder needs to be stopped before acknowledging that yes problem A happens.

What I said was before screaming racism for every police incidence with a black suspect know what took place.

 

it's easy for a white person to _think_ he or she is being fair-minded, unbiased, and unprejudiced, without realizing the truth.  Ignorance means more than ignorance of the black situation.  Ignorance entails also an ignorance of one's own ignorance.  Usually, the more ignorant a person is, the more confident.

 

You seem quite confident,do you speak from experience?

 

You speak of having had some talks with blacks.  Have you gone shopping with them?  If so, have you noticed the store personnel keeping a much closer watch on them than on you?  If you noticed, did you think this treatment was necessary or fair?  Have you been in the car with them when the police pulled them over?  Were you chagrined at the treatment you observed?  Have you been personally acquainted with black teachers, doctors, and professionals?  Have you noticed how other whites, who may not be aware of their education or status, treat them?

It involved a "little" more than some talks. Yes,I have gone shopping with them many times. No,they were not watched any closer or treated any differently.

And yes,I am personally acquainted with black DR's and professionals. My husband has two highly respected wonderful very black Dr's. 

Every time I go shopping I deal with blacks. Most,not all,just like anyone else are friendly and personable. For slaves they seem to hold the same position as their white co-workers. Some are even managers

 

Here's the thing: as long as the police in America take the same blind attitude of "I don't have a problem" that you appear to be taking, the racial inequalities will persist, and blacks will be victimized at their hands.  They are denying the problem.  Yet their actions show that they are afraid of blacks.  Police fear blacks more than whites, and react with a quick trigger.  But why are they afraid?  Why be afraid of the worker in the street trying to coax the autistic patient back into the facility?  Why fear his non-existent gun when his hands are up?  Why shoot him?  Until the police, and maybe white society in general, can truly face those questions with an attitude of honesty, no change can be expected.  Without change, unfortunately, America will be driven more and more toward a class war.  It is not right nor fair for black people to just shut up about racial injustices because a few white idealists think they should address their own internal issues first.  

I think if I were a po at this time I would have a little reluctance concerning a black suspect as well. I am not all that familiar with  what happened in the incidence you reference but that is not the norm in the recent  incidences.

I don't know why the police shot him.If it is as you say without any extenuating circumstances those guilty should pay the severest consequences allowed by law.

Again,please quit ad libing as you go along. It is a little silly to say white people expect black people to just shut up when it was a white student told by blacks to shut up and then punish her for saying what they disagree with