STUDENT-BODY-VP-UNDER-FIRE-FOR-ALL-LIVES

[bonnie]

Just so hopefully you can keep a few facts straight

Yes,I believe there are racist PO

Yes I believe there are power tripping PO

Yes,I believe when a suspect is killed it should be throughly investigated and if warranted,the guilty pay the consequences

No,I don't think the numerous black on black murders needs to be stopped before a black suspect shot by police is addressed. Along with.If black lives matter I would assume that means all black lives.

No I don't think the black community should be told to shut up

No I don't think a white student should be silenced and punished because the black community didn't like what she said.

No,I don't think the shooting of PO  should be acceptable to anyone

[Green Cochoa]

28 minutes ago, bonnie said:

I don't know why the police shot him.If it is as you say without any extenuating circumstances those guilty should pay the severest consequences allowed by law.

It's refreshing to hear you admit you don't know.  Are you willing to take a look at it?  Apparently, even the police who shot him didn't know.  Why?  People have to come to grips with their own personal biases before they can hope to answer this question.

For some information on that case, you can look here:

http://www.ksat.com/inside-edition/cops-shoot-unarmed-black-mental-health-worker-who-had-his-hands-up-as-he-cared-for-autistic-man

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/07/20/black_man_shot_by_police_while_lying_on_the_ground_with_his_hands_up.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/07/21/fla-police-shoot-black-man-with-his-hands-up-as-he-tries-to-help-autistic-patient/

 

I don't think this is as isolated as you might feel.  I think these matters are underreported and/or overly biased in the slant given them to make it appear the police actions were justified.  In this case, it's just too obvious that they weren't.

[bonnie]

Do you know why the man was shot? Was he shot because he was black? Or could there have been another reason just as senseless but unrelated to race.I havent read it yet and when I do I still might not be able to answer. To you that is being biased.  As far as I see you are biased. Your "feeling" that this is common is really meaningless.   Every incidence where a black person is killed by a PO is labeled racism.

[Green Cochoa]

1 hour ago, bonnie said:

Do you know why the man was shot? Was he shot because he was black? Or could there have been another reason just as senseless but unrelated to race.I havent read it yet and when I do I still might not be able to answer. To you that is being biased.  As far as I see you are biased. Your "feeling" that this is common is really meaningless.   Every incidence where a black person is killed by a PO is labeled racism.

There is in this case, as in several others, possibly "another reason" that may be "senseless" that is totally related to racism--but would only indirectly be that of the police officers.  People have allegedly called the police saying someone had a gun when there was either no gun at all, or the gun was no threat at all.  Because the police are not smart enough to figure out prank callers and allow themselves to shoot black people like this (it's not happening to whites with any degree of regularity as it is happening to blacks), they are complicit.

And all we have is the police officers' say so that they received such a call in the first place.   In this case, it was obviously a total lie.  No one but the police had any guns.  No one was trying to commit suicide with a gun.  With the man's clear statements made to the police officers who arrived at the scene, and with his actions--all caught on video, there can be no doubt that he was NOT attempting a "suicide by cop."  He was just doing his job.

Look at the links provided, see the video for yourself, and then decide.  The fact that you seem not to know about this is evidence enough that the mainstream news has said little about it.  Yes, they have documented it.  They have not made a big deal of it, like they would have had it been a white victim. And that's where the black community has a legitimate case.  If whites don't address it in a more open-minded fashion, it will become, as it likely is for many already, a grudge--and a cause for civil disobedience.  After all, if you come to the point where, emotionally, you cannot feel that police are there to protect and serve you personally, nor your family or friends, what would you do?

 

[Rossw]

http://abcnews.go.com/US/north-miami-police-officer-idd-shooting-unarmed-man/story?id=40804459

The police were acting on reports of a person who had a gun wanting to commit suicide. According to the testimony by the officer he thought the autistic person had a gun(per reports called in) and was putting the black councelor in danger. The cop pulled the trigger with the intent of hitting the white person yet missed and hit the black councelor. 

Is this a race related shooting? I don't think so but the media loves to spin stories to support a particular narrative that sells tv time and unfortunately many get sucked into the false narrative.

We shouldnt look at anecdotal incidents put on tv as an overall trend in violence for the whole nation. Let's look at actual statistics for evidence.

[CoAspen]

Quote

Let's start looking at the big picture in the context of a falling, failing world that will soon end. Things will not get better. Thats not fatalism but reality. Just try and make the best with what we've got and there ain't much left. 

One can persist towards a goal or just hang with the crowd and have a life of 'what ifs'. What is it the ostrich does when danger is imminent, put its head in the sand. What did God say to Jeremiah after his long lament in Chapter 12: v1-4. Verse 5, if you get tired running with those around you, how can you run with horses. Things were bad, he sees no way for anything to change. God told him to persist. No change with out persistence towards the goal.

Sit around waiting for the world to collapse and then smile when God arrives when He asks 'what have you been doing'....I don't think so.

fatalism
noun=passive acceptance, resignation, stoicism, acceptance of the inevitable;

[bonnie]

17 hours ago, Green Cochoa said:

There is in this case, as in several others, possibly "another reason" that may be "senseless" that is totally related to racism--but would only indirectly be that of the police officers.  People have allegedly called the police saying someone had a gun when there was either no gun at all, or the gun was no threat at all.  Because the police are not smart enough to figure out prank callers and allow themselves to shoot black people like this (it's not happening to whites with any degree of regularity as it is happening to blacks), they are complicit.

And all we have is the police officers' say so that they received such a call in the first place.   In this case, it was obviously a total lie.  No one but the police had any guns.  No one was trying to commit suicide with a gun.  With the man's clear statements made to the police officers who arrived at the scene, and with his actions--all caught on video, there can be no doubt that he was NOT attempting a "suicide by cop."  He was just doing his job.

Look at the links provided, see the video for yourself, and then decide.  The fact that you seem not to know about this is evidence enough that the mainstream news has said little about it.  Yes, they have documented it.  They have not made a big deal of it, like they would have had it been a white victim. And that's where the black community has a legitimate case.  If whites don't address it in a more open-minded fashion, it will become, as it likely is for many already, a grudge--and a cause for civil disobedience.  After all, if you come to the point where, emotionally, you cannot feel that police are there to protect and serve you personally, nor your family or friends, what would you do?

 

There is in this case, as in several others, possibly "another reason" that may be "senseless" that is totally related to racism--but would only indirectly be that of the police officers.  People have allegedly called the police saying someone had a gun when there was either no gun at all, or the gun was no threat at all.  Because the police are not smart enough to figure out prank callers and allow themselves to shoot black people like this (it's not happening to whites with any degree of regularity as it is happening to blacks), they are complicit.

Amazing . Now the police are to blame because they are to stupid to recognize crank calls. When the call was placed to 911 it should have been obvious there was no gun or if there was this specific gun should not be considered a threat? With your extraordinary insight I hope you have shared with 911 operators and the PO how to determine crank calls and when and if a gun should be considered a threat. Obviously you would be a great asset to law enforcement. Can you explain that process here,if I called 911 and claimed my husband was threatening me with a gun what would tell them it was a prank?

Just imagine the uproar if they in their stupidity decide a call is a prank and it is not. Worse yet if a black persons life is seen to be in danger. You really need to try to educate especially 911 operators so they can determine whether to call for assistance.

 

And all we have is the police officers' say so that they received such a call in the first place.   In this case, it was obviously a total lie.  No one but the police had any guns.  No one was trying to commit suicide with a gun.  With the man's clear statements made to the police officers who arrived at the scene, and with his actions--all caught on video, there can be no doubt that he was NOT attempting a "suicide by cop."  He was just doing his job.

If this call was placed there will be a copy of the call to 911. Do you know that there isn't any ? Maybe it has been stated somewhere but so far I have not seen it. Something must have occurred to summon the police to the situation. What was it,do you know? Please share. After the fact hindsight is great. Did the police believe a gun was present? Or did they know it "was an obvious lie"? Was it an obvious lie or a mistake made by the party calling 911? If not a mistake do you have something besides your say so that the caller was obviously lying because one of the two was black. If you do please share.

Look at the links provided, see the video for yourself, and then decide.  The fact that you seem not to know about this is evidence enough that the mainstream news has said little about it.  Yes, they have documented it.  They have not made a big deal of it, like they would have had it been a white victim. And that's where the black community has a legitimate case.  If whites don't address it in a more open-minded fashion, it will become, as it likely is for many already, a grudge--and a cause for civil disobedience.  After all, if you come to the point where, emotionally, you cannot feel that police are there to protect and serve you personally, nor your family or friends, what would you do?

It has been a long time since I have read much concerning white victims. I have not read much concerning this because I chose not to. I have stopped following a lot of this after catching headlines. I know automatically what the story will portray. A "innocent black victim" dead because of a racist PO. Doesn't matter how it happened,the victim painted as a pillar of the community,just standing there and shot by a racist PO. At times it can be true,is it true as frequently as the black community and you claim it to be? I don't believe you

Taking the time to read the links you posted a few things stand out.

I can't find where a 911 call is denied. I can't find where it says the call was an obvious prank and the PO and 911 were to stupid to catch it.

you cannot feel that police are there to protect and serve you personally,

Really,then they shouldn't be calling the police to protect them. If they had not called the police to protect them while protesting the police in Dallas,5 PO would still be alive

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bonnie]

 

If you question this go ahead please and find me something that says there is a way for someone smart enough to make a distinction between prank and a real threat?

 

 

Curtis Darnell, 911 dispatcher and Chief for 28 years

6.7k Views

I agree with Roger's answers to this question and will expand on them a bit from the dispatcher perspective. Until proven otherwise, every call to 9-1-1 is viewed as an emergency. As soon as a dispatcher gathers information and an officer investigates, the process is complete. Do callers abuse the 9-1-1 system; yes. Can we know from a call and conversation that we are truly comfortable with "refusing" to respond? Almost never. Callers may be threatened by someone who can overhear them and not describe anything accurately or say things are "OK", and a sharp dispatcher has to infer about the safety of the situation purely from how a caller is talking rather than what they are saying.
Here's a great example of "erring upward" toward response as a opposed to no response; calls to 9-1-1 that are "abandoned" (no connection made, but the call registers) and 9-1-1 hang-ups (with little or no conversation). Law agencies can decide procedurally how to handle those, but almost all involve calling back to see what is going on and/or starting a law response no matter what the result of calling back is. One of the biggest challenges for dispatch centers now are abandoned or hang up calls to 9-1-1 from cell phones. We can usually determine a fairly accurate, approximate location, but without an information exchange with a caller, a law unit may just drive through the area and see what they can see. "If in doubt, send it out", has been a guiding principle in public safety that isn't going to change anytime soon. For every BS, wasteful and stupid call to 9-1-1, there are far more that initially present with little information that turn out to be a threat to someone's safety.

[Green Cochoa]

2 hours ago, Rossw said:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/north-miami-police-officer-idd-shooting-unarmed-man/story?id=40804459

The police were acting on reports of a person who had a gun wanting to commit suicide. According to the testimony by the officer he thought the autistic person had a gun(per reports called in) and was putting the black councelor in danger. The cop pulled the trigger with the intent of hitting the white person yet missed and hit the black councelor. 

Is this a race related shooting? I don't think so but the media loves to spin stories to support a particular narrative that sells tv time and unfortunately many get sucked into the false narrative.

We shouldnt look at anecdotal incidents put on tv as an overall trend in violence for the whole nation. Let's look at actual statistics for evidence.

Odd.  The black was there trying to "protect and serve" AGAINST the blue suits who were supposed to "protect and serve."  Odd.  The police officer who is well-trained in the use of his gun would allege he missed and hit the wrong man.  Odd.  The phone call apparently summoning the POs to the scene has apparently not been released to the public.  Odd.  The police believe every phone caller they hear, hook, line, and sinker--and come with guns blazing to kill the individual allegedly trying to kill himself.  Only when the victim is black.

This is not the only case.  Are you ready for some others?

I've been following the news on the racial tensions for several years running now, as I see prophecies being fulfilled.  This particular incident is far from isolated.  It just happens to be one of the more recent.  Unfortunately for the police in this case, their aim was too poor to put the black man out of his misery, thus leaving him alive and able to ask questions.  The lame response of "I don't know" was all they could answer?

Anyone trying to defend the obviously trigger-happy police in this situation is defending the kind of policing that America should never have had.

[Green Cochoa]

49 minutes ago, bonnie said:

Curtis Darnell, 911 dispatcher and Chief for 28 years

6.7k Views

I agree with Roger's answers to this question and will expand on them a bit from the dispatcher perspective. Until proven otherwise, every call to 9-1-1 is viewed as an emergency. As soon as a dispatcher gathers information and an officer investigates, the process is complete. Do callers abuse the 9-1-1 system; yes. Can we know from a call and conversation that we are truly comfortable with "refusing" to respond? Almost never. Callers may be threatened by someone who can overhear them and not describe anything accurately or say things are "OK", and a sharp dispatcher has to infer about the safety of the situation purely from how a caller is talking rather than what they are saying.
Here's a great example of "erring upward" toward response as a opposed to no response; calls to 9-1-1 that are "abandoned" (no connection made, but the call registers) and 9-1-1 hang-ups (with little or no conversation). Law agencies can decide procedurally how to handle those, but almost all involve calling back to see what is going on and/or starting a law response no matter what the result of calling back is. One of the biggest challenges for dispatch centers now are abandoned or hang up calls to 9-1-1 from cell phones. We can usually determine a fairly accurate, approximate location, but without an information exchange with a caller, a law unit may just drive through the area and see what they can see. "If in doubt, send it out", has been a guiding principle in public safety that isn't going to change anytime soon. For every BS, wasteful and stupid call to 9-1-1, there are far more that initially present with little information that turn out to be a threat to someone's safety.

It's one thing to check out the situation following a 911 call.  It's quite another to simply blaze away with bullets and put people into eternity for no reason.  Death by caller or death by police?  Police who blame the caller for their having needlessly shot an innocent black are just illegitimately trying to pass the buck and accept no responsibility.  In fact, the more I hear of how they handle those 911 calls, the less I want to ever touch that number myself, even if my life is in danger.  Why should I endanger myself yet the more?

[bonnie]

The fact is neither you or I were there.Your claims as to what happened and why really dont count.Neither do mine. It sounds as if the outcome could have been prevented. Was it racism of the caller? I have no idea but so far I dont see anything to indicate that.Was it racism on the part of the PO? Was it poor judgement? Dont know.  But neither do you. Do your accusations reflect your bias against PO and 911 and those that call for assistance? I believe it is. With your bias against 911 it is a wise choice to not involve them even if your life is in danger. It might be hard for them to operate in a manner you would find acceptable. For me, I will always be eternally grateful for both times they saved my husbands life and the time they saved mine. The professionalism and kindness would be hard to beat.Including the PO who were there in minutes and knew what to do until the paramedics arrived and took over

[Green Cochoa]

18 minutes ago, bonnie said:

The fact is neither you or I were there.Your claims as to what happened and why really dont count.Neither do mine. It sounds as if the outcome could have been prevented. Was it racism of the caller? I have no idea but so far I dont see anything to indicate that.Was it racism on the part of the PO? Was it poor judgement? Dont know.  But neither do you. Do your accusations reflect your bias against PO and 911 and those that call for assistance? I believe it is. With your bias against 911 it is a wise choice to not involve them even if your life is in danger. It might be hard for them to operate in a manner you would find acceptable. For me, I will always be eternally grateful for both times they saved my husbands life and the time they saved mine. The professionalism and kindness would be hard to beat.Including the PO who were there in minutes and knew what to do until the paramedics arrived and took over

If you don't know whether or not the police used poor judgment, I think you will never be able to know anything.  That much should have been obvious.  As for your use of the 911, doctors don't tend to pack heat, nor have trigger fingers that take life.  They prefer to save life.  I suppose their main disadvantage is the huge medical bill they charge.

[bonnie]

5 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

If you don't know whether or not the police used poor judgment, I think you will never be able to know anything.  That much should have been obvious.  As for your use of the 911, doctors don't tend to pack heat, nor have trigger fingers that take life.  They prefer to save life.  I suppose their main disadvantage is the huge medical bill they charge.

Poor judgement is a far cry from shooting someone because of his skin color.Or being complicit in racism. What is poor judgement to me sitting safely in my house can look a whole lot different to a PO that has been led to believe someone has a gun and is capable of pulling the trigger.  Can you tell me what was going thru the mind of the PO?Not your assumption but what you KNOW. I dont and it would be helpful to have first hand knowledge.Your the one that said you didnt trust 911.They dont carry guns either.As for the charge I was very grateful to pay the 1400.00 for my husbands life. It would have been cheaper but the use of sirens and high speed make it more expensive because of their insurance liability.The specialist that took care of my husband had spent 14 years in medical school to be able to do that.He certainly is worth more than a plumbers wage. Hopefully if you need medical care you can find those that give a cut rate

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

19 minutes ago, Green Cochoa said:

doctors don't tend to pack heat

actually, quite a number of physicians are armed at medical centers and in their private practices... and it may be against hospital policy, but they *still* carry them, either in a shoulder holster or ankle holster.   On a couple occasions while working in the ER, we were most grateful for that fact, as the armed presence saved lives.

[D_Bishop]

I drive by the U of H campus just about every sabbath.   I think the issue has long been forgotten. Was it solved? I doubt it.   There are many unresolved problems  facing humanity.   If racial issues in the USA was the last and only issue  plaguing humans I would be more concerned.  Truth is there are many problems just as bad or worse that humans have no clue how to fix.   The only solution I can think of is live for God, live each day, each moment as if it is your last.  Only the Lord has an answer for the problems of this world.

 

[Green Cochoa]

On August 7, 2016 at 7:55 AM, bonnie said:

Poor judgement is a far cry from shooting someone because of his skin color.Or being complicit in racism. What is poor judgement to me sitting safely in my house can look a whole lot different to a PO that has been led to believe someone has a gun and is capable of pulling the trigger.  Can you tell me what was going thru the mind of the PO?Not your assumption but what you KNOW. I dont and it would be helpful to have first hand knowledge.Your the one that said you didnt trust 911.They dont carry guns either.As for the charge I was very grateful to pay the 1400.00 for my husbands life. It would have been cheaper but the use of sirens and high speed make it more expensive because of their insurance liability.The specialist that took care of my husband had spent 14 years in medical school to be able to do that.He certainly is worth more than a plumbers wage. Hopefully if you need medical care you can find those that give a cut rate

The problem is, officers jump to conclusions that frequently result in fatalities.  See the story below for a case where a white man feels he was not murdered by the police partly because he was white.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2016/08/16/father-utterly-terrified-after-trooper-points-gun-at-his-7-year-old-during-traffic-stop/?tid=hybrid_experimentrandom_1_na&utm_term=.28baabf3b300

This kind of "experience" will become more common as time goes by, I fear.

First they came for the Native Americans, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Native American. Then they came for the Blacks, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Black. Then they came for the illegal immigrants, and I did not speak out— Because I was not an illegal immigrant. Then they came for the refugees, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a refugee. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Green Cochoa]

If you don't read the whole article in the above linked story, you should at least stop to consider the following:

"So far, more than 250 people have been shot and killed by police officers in the first three months of 2016, according to The Washington Post database on police shootings."

[bonnie]

I haven't the time right now to read the whole article  but what I did scan ,especially the last one it is obvious someone as yourself would not have jumped to conclusions.......

Unfortunately our police officers are not blessed with the divine insight of the Monday morning experts. I  know that in that number you will find the racist or power tripping PO as in any profession.  But given that at least half were white victims,why were they killed? 

The following story is interesting. Perhaps  a man suspected to be armed and with a violent history should have been asked nicely to let the PO know if he had a gun,was it loaded and did he intend to use it.  I am sure you would have. Most PO don't have the time or luxury that would require if they intend to go home to their families.  

 

[D_Bishop]

http://www.chron.com/houston/article/White-Lives-Matter-group-protests-outside-NAACP-9176142.php

 

This happened this past weekend.  That was a brazen move.  They showed up carrying confederate flags and bearing automatic rifles.  If a group from the community confronts them in a similar manner it could become very bloody.   I am not exactly sure where the Houston area naacp offices are located.  I think it is off OST, a drive in third ward.  Not that far from the Campuses of TSU,  U of H and HCC.  

We live on the NW side of town but the church we attend is in the SE.  We drove home through 3rd ward that sabbath, but didn't see nothing unusual, thank goodness.   This world is crazy.

[bonnie]

Still curious,do you think that this student should have been punished for what she said? Does she have the same rights as those that are taking hers away?

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote

http://www.chron.com/houston/article/White-Lives-Matter-group-protests-outside-NAACP-9176142.php

Quote

"We came out here to protest against the NAACP and their failure in speaking out against the atrocities that organizations like Black Lives Matter and other pro-black organizations have caused the attack and killing of white police officers, the burning down of cities and things of that nature," White Lives Matter member Ken Reed said. "If they're going to be a civil rights organization and defend their people, they also need to hold their people accountable."

If I saw a mob of rampaging blacks, or any other color of skin, who were looting and burning businesses, and my business was just down the street, I might give these guys a phone call to have them show up and keep my business, and my livelihood, from being destroyed by people with such low IQ's.

America is full of stories about how people came here penniless and made a good life for themselves through hard work and determination. Sadly, the rioters, and others of the same mind, have no vision of what could be theirs, earned by the sweat of their brows, but rather, they embrace a life of crime and become enraged when the police try to deal with the lawless mindset of people who have no hope, and no direction that would enable them live with honor. 

Quote

Still curious,do you think that this student should have been punished for what she said? Does she have the same rights as those that are taking hers away?

I think she should find a different school, one that is not so intolerant of free speech.

[D_Bishop]

There are so many inequities and injustices in this country, in the legal system.  I am talking about criminal injustice.  Whatever this student went through is not worth talking about.  Nobody is talking about it but certain people here.  this topic is nothing more than message board idle time.

[bonnie]

I wonder if this student thinks so. Is it  just her right to free speech being hindered or denied?

[lazarus]

20 minutes ago, bonnie said:

I wonder if this student thinks so. Is it  just her right to free speech being hindered or denied?

She can say whatever she wants but as a student body VP the students have the right to challenge her views and hold her accountable. If one of the VP's in my conference said the same thing I would certainly challenge it.

 

[bonnie]

43 minutes ago, lazarus said:

She can say whatever she wants but as a student body VP the students have the right to challenge her views and hold her accountable. If one of the VP's in my conference said the same thing I would certainly challenge it.

 

So BLM cannot be challenged but All Lives Matter can be? Convenient