What is "the handwriting of ordinances" that Christ nailed to the cross?

[Martn]

12 hours ago, jackson said:

The only law God spoke out loud to the people was the 10 Commandments.

That is not correct.

We know this because we have something you do not. Something which even early Christian leaders cited as authoritative (Acts 15:28-29), quoting parts of it (the Noachide laws) exactly as they now appear in our Talmuds, though at the time they were not written anywhere but in our hearts.

From this we know that not everything was recorded which God spoke out loud to them that day. In fact most of it was not recorded at all in any material form, but was memorized (written in the heart --something much better than stone) by the "wise ones" who were able to hear it, and passed down by them to this very day.

Moses did of course write some parts of it down, later on, as God directed him, but not most of it. Even today, nearly all of it still remains unrecorded. This, in its entirety, is what constitutes the Law. Not just what is written in the Ten or in the Torah.

Far, far more than was written on the two tables of stone. For we are plainly told that on the stones themselves were written no more than "ten words" total --each "commandment" being represented as a single word, to which God added not one word more.

In a sense, therefore, the entire Law was compressed into ten simple words. Because, what we require volumes to understand, God can say in a single word.

 

[8thdaypriest]

On 10/3/2016 at 2:00 PM, Martn said:

Read carefully, the olive tree, as it is used n Romans, refers only to the tribes of Judah, the Jews, not to the tribes of the House of Israel.

And Romans does say that only "some" of them were broken off, not most or all.

I believe Paul was using imagery from Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 11:16-17  "The LORD called your name, Green Olive Tree, Lovely and of Good Fruit. With the noise of a great tumult He has kindled fire on it, And its branches are broken. 17 "For the LORD of hosts, who planted you, has pronounced doom against you for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke Me to anger in offering incense to Baal."

In this passage the "Green Olive Tree" - planted by the LORD - was Israel (all 12 tribes). 

[LifeHiscost]

1 hour ago, Martn said:

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Martn said:

In a sense, therefore, the entire Law was compressed into ten simple words. Because, what we require volumes to understand, God can say in a single word.

 

How about these two.

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.....Matthew 22

Go is Love!~Jesus saves!

[8thdaypriest]

13 hours ago, Seventh Day said:

<<<Jesus gave up his own divine power, when He incarnated as a human being.  He became dependent upon His Father, for the indwelling, just like all of us.>>>

O NO! God help us! O NO!!

 

This has also been debated at length on other threads.  Let me just refer you to a study at my website:  http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/11-DOMINION.pdf

My understanding, is that Jesus had to overcome as a man, in order to win back the dominion of earth FOR mankind. 

Jesus said very clearly, "The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works" (NKJ).

[JoeMo]

I believe that Jesus did voluntarily leave His pre-incarnate "God stuff" in heaven when He came to earth.  Everything He did while on earth was through the power and commands of His Father.  Did He take His "God stuff" back when He ascended into heaven?  Or is His "God stuff" what we now call the Holy Spirit, or Comforter?  Jesus did say He would be with us always, even until the end of the age.  Is He with us now through His Spirit ("God stuff")?  Is what many people call the 3rd person of the Trinity actually the Spirit ("God stuff") of Christ?  I think so.  That makes me a "Twinitarian"

[JoeMo]

14 hours ago, Seventh Day said:

O NO! God help us! O NO!!

O YES! God is helping us! O YES!!  How much more could He help us than by sacrificing His own divine Son (who is also God) to pay the penalty for our sins.  If you think that Jesus did a good enough job to save us, then O YES!!  If you think that you need to add to Jesus' sacrifice to "earn" your salvation, then O NO!!

[Martn]

22 hours ago, jackson said:

what the Lord spoke to the people, was what He wrote  on the tablets

And we are told there in the Torah, in no uncertain terms, that all which was written on the tablets amounted to no more than "ten words" total --one word for each of the Ten, and to these "TEN words" God added nothing more. 

And yet, what the "wise ones" heard --in their ears (hearts)-- amounted to far more than ten words. Even what is recorded in Exodus and Deuteronomy amounts to far more than ten words only.  And there was much, much more which was heard that day than what is recorded in Exodus and Deuteronomy. Most of which remains still unpublished.

Again, This is because that which requires many words to convey in human understanding can be compressed by God into a single word. The entire Law, both published and unpublished, was encapsulated within those "ten words" which God wrote upon the tablets.

Jesus himself said that the Scribes (Hakhamim --"Wise ones" or "Sages"-- as we call them) sit in the place of Moses, and that we are to follow "EVERYTHING" therefore "WHATSOEVER" they teach (Matthew 23-1-3). Paul likewise acknowledges their authority, quoting as authoritative the Noachide laws (Acts 15:19-20, 28-29), just as they now appear in our own Talmuds, though at the time they were not published anywhere.

We who have access to these things can observe the high degree of internal consistency which validates their authenticity. And there is the added support of multiple sources among us, confirming one another.

There is, therefore, another side to the story, which we have, and unless or until you gain access to it, you really cannot sit in judgment on the matter. Which is okay, because the Law does not apply to you, except for minor parts (the Noachide laws).
 

[Martn]

4 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Everything He did while on earth was through the power and commands of His Father.

And, everything he did in the heavens before coming to earth was also by the power of the Great Spirit within him.

For it says that everything was made or done "by [dia] him. The word there, in every instance, is "dia" (through). Whenever God does something, the word for "by" is always "ek" (from), because what God does comes directly "from" God, rather than through God, unlike in the case of Jesus.

[Martn]

16 hours ago, jackson said:

Please be careful that you are not tempted to  exhibit the same feeling of "exclusiveness" that played a large part in keeping  the Jewish nation from fulfilling God's promises for them.

Although the renegade "Jews" of Judea may have had an attitude of exclusiveness, most Jews --actual Jews-- have never felt that way. Jewish missionaries were active throughout the Roman Empire, to such an extent Josephus informs us that at least 10% of the whole Roman Empire had been converted to Judaism by the time of Jesus. This continued for another 300 years until Constantine outlawed it, and only since that time have Jews become reluctant to seek converts --because Constantine and the Church forbade it on pain of death.

So successful were conversions to Judaism that nearly all Jews today descend (in part) from ancient Roman Gentile converts, as genetics tests have shown.

[Martn]

16 hours ago, jackson said:

God has kept no information necessary for salvation

Of course not.

Jews believe salvation is free to ALL, not just Jews. In fact, Jews are universalists.

That's why Judaism teaches that Gentiles are generally exempt from the requirements of the Law. Only minor parts of the Law apply to non-Jews, we believe. Because salvation --a free gift-- is not dependent on the works of the Law. Rewards are dependent on the Law, but not the gift of eternal life. Gifts and rewards are not the same thing.

It is Christians, generally, who believe they are superior to us, that salvation is limited to them alone.

[8thdaypriest]

On 10/3/2016 at 6:38 PM, Seventh Day said:

No Scripture. Unusual for you, but true. Why, if you were correct, you would have presented your Scripture.

 

But that's not where the actual problem lies. Your real problem is your free-will error.   

LOTS of Scriptures.  Too many to list them all:

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/4-An Ancient Prophecy.pdf

http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/20-Kingdom of Priests.pdf

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/1-INTRODUCTION.pdf

http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/2-THE 8TH DAY- My Journey.pdf

http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/21-The 8th Day.pdf

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/13-Judgment Day.pdf

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/14-Gog and Magog.pdf

http://prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/Book Chapters/15-Final Judgment, Lake of Fire.pdf

[LifeHiscost]

On 10/3/2016 at 11:02 PM, jackson said:

Please don't combine or confuse the 10 commandments with the Law of Moses. The former was instituted before sin and is the test of sin for all mankind. The latter was instituted because of sin,  and its sacrifices and ceremonies met their end at the cross. The law of Moses was not written in stone either literally or figuratively.

Most succinct and understandable I've ever seen it written or explained, although it's what I've believed by the reading of scripture for the most all of my Christian

experience.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!  

[Ron Amnsn]

On 10/3/2016 at 11:02 PM, jackson said:

Please don't combine or confuse the 10 commandments with the Law of Moses. The former was instituted before sin and is the test of sin for all mankind. The latter was instituted because of sin,  and its sacrifices and ceremonies met their end at the cross. The law of Moses was not written in stone either literally or figuratively.

Do you have Scripture to back up the distinctions you're making between the 10 Words and God's Law of Moses?  I realize this has been a common teaching ever since Gentile Christians stopped following the example of Jesus, but is it actually based on Scripture?

Which passage of Scripture tells us that the Ten Words will be "the test of sin for all mankind"? Likewise, which passage of Scripture tells us that the commands from God's Law of Moses such as, "Love the LORD your God with all your heart" and "Love your neighbor as yourself" will not be a test of sin for all mankind?

Also, how do you make the Ten Words separate from the scroll of God's Law of Moses on which they were written?  How would you even know what words were written on the stone tablets by the finger of God if those Ten Words had not been recorded in the Scroll of the Law?  The stone tablets did not endure in a form that is still readable by us, while the words written on the scroll did endure.

Where is the Scripture that teaches that God's Law of Moses written on the scroll was intended to be temporary, while the Ten Words of the Covenant written in stone were intended to endure?

If it were true that God's words written on stone are more enduring than God's words written in a scroll, what would that imply about God's words, commands, statutes, laws, and promises that God gave to Abraham that were not written down on anything at all?  When we consider the awesome power of each of God's words, does writing them on stone really add any significant longevity to any of God's words? The apostle Paul makes it clear in Galatians 3 that God's promises to Abraham (that were not originally written on anything at all) were still valid at the time Paul was writing, decades after the veil of the Temple had been torn.

If the Ten Words of the Covenant written on stone and protected inside in the Ark of the Covenant are eternal, why do you claim that God's Covenant with Israel written on those same stones in those same words and protected inside that same Ark is somehow not valid today?  If the Ten Words are still valid as Law, where is the passage of Scripture that teaches that the Ten Words are not still valid as a Covenant with the Israelites?

The writing of God's Law of Moses onto a scroll rather than into stone may have been a matter of logistics rather than a sign that one part of God's Law was eternal while another part was temporary.  How many stones would have been required to contain the writing of the whole Scroll of the Law?  How heavy would all those stone tablets have been to carry from Sinai through the wilderness for 40 years?.  Would there have been enough room inside the Most Holy Place to place all those stones beside the Ark of the Covenant?  Since God could presumably write in stone with his finger somewhat faster than Moses could write in stone with tools, how much time would it have taken Moses to carve all of God's commands into stone?  How long would it have taken Moses to carry down from Mt Sinai all those additional stone tablets? 

Scripture tells us that all of God's Law of Moses actually was written on stone once the Israelites reached the Land of Promise. 
"And on the day you cross over the Jordan to the land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall set up large stones and plaster them with plaster. And you shall write on them all the words of this law, when you cross over to enter the land that the LORD your God is giving you" (Deut. 27:2-3)
"And you shall write on the stones all the words of this law very plainly." (Deut. 27:8)
"And there, in the presence of the people of Israel, he wrote on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written." (Joshua 8:32)

 

[Martn]

On 10/17/2016 at 10:40 PM, Ron Amnsn said:

God's Law of Moses actually was written on stone once the Israelites reached the Land of Promise. 

"And on the day you cross over the Jordan to the land that the LORD your God is giving you, you shall set up large stones and plaster them with plaster. And you shall write on them all the words of this law, when you cross over to enter the land that the LORD your God is giving you" (Deut. 27:2-3)

"And you shall write on the stones all the words of this law very plainly." (Deut. 27:8)

"And there, in the presence of the people of Israel, he wrote on the stones a copy of the law of Moses, which he had written." (Joshua 8:32)

 

Nailed it.