Administrators Gail Posted September 25, 2016 Administrators Share Posted September 25, 2016 Some of the blame lies with our own members, and it makes relations hard all the way around. When people bulldoze others with a spirit of "rightness" and dogmatism, that is not generally well-accepted. When members focus on outward behaviours of others and try to correct them or fix them or complain about them- tell me, how long would you endure such treatment? As far as EGW goes, the early membership was far less dependent on her work and better Bible students. I understand that changed about the 1920s, where leaders and membership dubbed her work with inerrancy and infallibility, and she was no longer around to defend herself. In doing that they in essence created a pope. I am sorry that in these modern times we are left with more prejudice that we need to fight. But we need to fight the battle with the weapons of God's warfare which are not carnal but mighty. And before them all comes love. That is how God deals with us. Love, freedom of conscience, and time to allow the Holy Spirit to do its work. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Isaiah 32:17 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted September 25, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted September 25, 2016 So those of you who think that concealing the SDA sign is deceptive, was God being deceptive in Ex 5, 1 Sam 16, or Jn 7? Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outta Here Posted September 25, 2016 Share Posted September 25, 2016 God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. JoeMo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 25, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 25, 2016 Gerry: Even if we were to say that God was deceptive, that would not justify our being deceptive. To say that God was deceptive would not be a blanket justification to be deceptive everywhere, at all times. Outta Here 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauralea Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 I think there is a different way to look at it rather than just saying if it is deceptive- is it the best possible practice for us to do at this time. I guess the thing I would do is prayerfully consider the overall situation and the relevant counsel. To me the quote about not concealing who we are appears to be highly relevant. In the past I have helped rent public buildings for the beginning of a crusade for this reason. We would tell anyone who asked who we were. Quote Behold what manner of love the Father hath given unto us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted September 26, 2016 Share Posted September 26, 2016 My Partner and I were enjoying pizza night with a few of our lovely close church members and I brought up this topic. Wanting input from Real Faces that I do know are quite extensively more than their opinions. (as all are) I then had vague flashback to my home church as a kid ..that we actually did that (!)..and even had a special cover made to fit over the sign. It was a work of art made out of wood... yes thank you, My Home Church So us! The memory gets stronger every time I think back after. Of course the knee jerk reaction at our lil Pizza and Salad Party was the Church was ashamed. I brought up it was probably done to increase the people attending or at least getting a peek. Due to uhhh,, cultish judging behavior close by or unfavorable press of people and groups linked to our Church. Media etc. Then they told me that our Church (my current) did things differently. They held the meetings in a Hall then moved it to the Church at the time the Sabbath Message. neeto! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted September 28, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2016 On 9/25/2016 at 5:57 PM, Gregory Matthews said: On 9/25/2016 at 5:57 PM, Gregory Matthews said: Gerry: Even if we were to say that God was deceptive, that would not justify our being deceptive. To say that God was deceptive would not be a blanket justification to be deceptive everywhere, at all times. Gerry: Even if we were to say that God was deceptive, that would not justify our being deceptive. To say that God was deceptive would not be a blanket justification to be deceptive everywhere, at all times. Greg, I am very surprised by your response. Are you saying that on occasion God uses deception only as a matter of convenience? If we cover up the SDA sign ONLY during the pre-Sabbath presentation, that is not a blanket use of deception is it? ESV | Nu 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie. ESV | Heb 6:18 it is impossible for God to lie, If the above statements are true, then it seems to me that we must question or reexamine our ideas about what is deception/lie and what is not. As Jesus said, NIV84 | Jn 7:24 Stop judging by mere appearances, and make a right judgment.” And the right judgment, it seems to me, is to look at the heart (motive) as the Bible says. What is the reason/motive for God telling Moses to tell pharaoh that he was leading the Israelites only 3 days journey into the wilderness to sacrifice to Jehovah? What was His motive in telling Samuel not to openly declare David as the new king? Why did Jesus say that He was not going to Jerusalem and then privately go there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 28, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2016 Gerry: Please read what I said. Never did I say that God was deceptive. In the quoted post, I simply left that argument alone. I went to the next step when I said " IF . . . By the way, thank you for asking. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 28, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2016 Gerry asks below: 1) Just maybe that was the original request--to go three days journey. 2) Just maybe, if Pharaoh had let them go, they would have returned? The request of Moses may have been honest. 3) But, God knew that Pharaoh would drive then out--Exodus 6:1. 4) With the refusal to let them go and sacrifice, the plagues came. 5) The death of the first born, in the 10th plague, the people of Egypt, including Pharaoh rose up and drove the people out, as God has said. 7) Yes, God knew ahead of time that the outcome of the request would be deliverance--see Exodus 3:8. But, that does not mean that the original request to go and sacrifice was false.. Therefore, it dos not mean that God was deceptive. What is the reason/motive for God telling Moses to tell pharaoh that he was leading the Israelites only 3 days journey into the wilderness to sacrifice to Jehovah? Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 28, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2016 Gerry asked, see below: 1) Your question has several aspects. So, take your pick. NOTE: You can read about this in 1 Samuel 16: 2) David was not to immediately become the king. Saul reigned as King for some time after this. 3) Samuel actually did more than anoint David. He consecrated Jessie and David's brother's--see verse 5. 4) As future events took place, it is clear that both Saul and the people believed that David was intended to replace Saul as king. This argues against the idea that God was deceptive. What was His motive in telling Samuel not to openly declare David as the new king? Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted September 28, 2016 Moderators Share Posted September 28, 2016 Gerry asked, below: 1) I can think of a couple of incidents that might be your reference. 2) However, as you have not specified the exact Biblical reference, I prefer not to speculate. Why did Jesus say that He was not going to Jerusalem and then privately go there? Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted November 13, 2016 Author Moderators Share Posted November 13, 2016 just an update. Although the attendance was nowhere close to our expectations, we did have 3 baptisms last Sabbath. There was supposed to be two more today but came down with a bug. I believe there were supposed to be 3 or 4 coming in on profession of faith. I had to leave early for my clinic, so I wasn't there for the whole service. phkrause, Lauralea and LifeHiscost 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bimo Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The banner is not real the problem. The problem is presentation; we always start with all kind of "beast" and scary stuff. Why not start with Gods love, Problem of Sin, Jesus as only way to salvation then all the old fashion method . We are small outreach in Allentown, PA; we do this approach; church (SDA)does not like our method and we do not get positive support from them ( I mean local church ); even saying the method is wrong.. The higher hierarchy ( GC, Conference and Union ) support us and we still going strong. The name is Simplicity, check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted December 21, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 21, 2016 Bimo: The One Project begins with a center on Christ, love and salvation. Check it out, as you said. As to "simplicity:" It would be nice if you would give the actual URL that we could access. Checking it out is not easy to do as it is actually a parachurch movement that embraces many denominations. A few, as there are more, include: the Mormons, a large number of Pentacostal groups, the Church of Christ and Presbyterians. The group is so large, and unorganized, that it is not easy to determine exactly what is involved, although there are some general characteristics. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted December 21, 2016 Members Share Posted December 21, 2016 the Allentown, Pennsylvania, "Simplicity" url is http://www.simplicityoutreach.org/ Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted December 22, 2016 Moderators Share Posted December 22, 2016 Thank you Pam. It would have been a better choice for those who chose the name "simplicity" for them to have not chosen a name that is clearly connected with Pentacostal parachurch group. Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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