GayatfootofCross Posted September 29, 2016 Share Posted September 29, 2016 http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2016/09/29/breaking-general-conference-leadership-considers-takeover-unions-ordain-women But Jesus called the disciplesand said, “You know that the rulers of the unbelievers lord it over them and their superiors act like tyrants over them. That’s not the way it should be among you. Instead, whoever wants to be great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first among you must be your slave. That’s the way it is with the Son of Man. He did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many people.” Matt 20:25-28 teresaq, Kevin H and LifeHiscost 3 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teresaq Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 It may be just me but both the American political war going on now closely resembles the political war over this issue going on in the SDA church. Should say something I would think. :( Kevin H and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote facebook. /teresa.quintero.790 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 Going to be hard for the GC to enforce their will on the American churches. They should re read our history. Americans do not like Things forced on them. We revolted against King George. We will revolt against King Ted Wilson. Stan, Kevin H and GayatfootofCross 3 Quote Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 First they will have to dismiss the union leaders. Then have a new constituency called to undo womans ordination. Since 80 percent of the vote was in favor of womans ordination this will not work. It will only backfire against the GC leadership. Stan 1 Quote Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 Jesus never forced but many christians (as shown in the OP) think GOD is a tyrant and therefore emulate this false god. My stomach turns. Kevin H 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 more http://spectrummagazine.org/article/2016/09/29/annual-council-considers-authority-document-demonizes-many-church-entities Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 A most interesting read...but we all know that Spectrum is a liberal magazine and not to be trusted! (TIC) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 spectrum may be a liberal magazine but we would not have learned of this plot by the GC to disband the unions who do not fall into line with Ted Wilsons line from any church news network. Adventist News Network would not have told us. Neither would we learn of this on Hope channel or 3ABN or any of the official channels of the church. Christopher, Unchained, Kevin H and 1 other 4 Quote Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted September 30, 2016 Author Share Posted September 30, 2016 1 hour ago, CyberGuy said: spectrum may be a liberal magazine but we would not have learned of this plot by the GC to disband the unions who do not fall into line with Ted Wilsons line from any church news network. Adventist News Network would not have told us. Neither would we learn of this on Hope channel or 3ABN or any of the official channels of the church. It is all about secrecy. In the Shadows. In the dark. Where there is no Light! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 CyberGuy...It was a joke! Read about the issue also on Adventist Today, a little less excited article but still the same conclusions. Kevin H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Good point about Adventist today. Here is the discussion on Adventist today on this issue. http://atoday.org/adventist-denominational-leaders-seek-to-deal-with-ordination-challenges/ Stan 1 Quote Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 ok. Here is the official Church reporting on this issue from Adventist News Network. Big difference in the spin here. No mention of disbanding the unions who continue to ordain women. NOTHING. This is what I mean by the church covering up or glossing over the real news story. https://news.adventist.org/en/all-news/news/go/2016-09-25/church-governance-and-unity-to-be-discussed-at-annual-council/ Stan 1 Quote Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 1, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 1, 2016 CyberGuy: There is a mention, even if small, in the document that you referenced. See, below: “During Annual Council this year we plan to discuss how best to address divergence from the current policy,” General Conference executive secretary G.T. Ng said Friday in an e-mail to members of the General Conference Executive Committee, comprised of church leaders from around the world who will gather at church headquarters in Silver Spring, Maryland, for Annual Council on Oct. 5 to 12. “Please prayerfully review these documents as they provide a foundation for these discussions.” Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted October 3, 2016 Author Share Posted October 3, 2016 We of course don't know the future in this very thing. If the Ship sinks over this ( what ever side wins or loses ) ..it will primarily because the anti Jesus spirit of resentment,unforgiveness, and punitive and vengeance that will sit in the members. Not even mentioning the Anti Jesus lordship and dictating matters of Conscience. The denomination is at stake over this spirit. No one gets everything they want in church or life ..we all deal with disappointment. Our Church was built on disappointment Sorry bad joke. I grew up surrounded by church peeps saying no matter what happens - stay on the Boat! Stay on the Boat!!!!!! Don't leave the Church.! The denomination/dogma/theology doesn't save. Jesus is the Lifeboat here. And keeping His Spirit in how we look upon others who disagree with us! May the Joy of the LORD be your Strength! # The People who have His Spirit of meek and lowly have the GOD's Authority on Earth. Christopher and rudywoofs (Pam) 2 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stan Posted October 3, 2016 Share Posted October 3, 2016 A WORD FROM EGW... "It is the desire and plan of Satan to bring in among us those who will go to great extremes—people of narrow minds, who are critical and sharp, and very tenacious in holding their own conceptions of what the truth means. They will be exacting, and will seek to enforce rigorous duties, and go to great lengths in matters of minor importance, while they neglect the weightier matters of the law—judgment and mercy and the love of God. Through the work of a few of this class of persons, the whole body of Sabbathkeepers will be designated as bigoted, Pharisaical, and fanatical. The work of the truth, because of these workers, will be thought to be unworthy of notice." She goes on to say that people of experience have a great work to do: "they are to guard the cause of God" (Evangelism, 212; taken from The Review and Herald, May 29, 1888). Tom Wetmore, Kevin H, Christopher and 1 other 4 Quote If you receive benefit to being here please help out with expenses. https://www.paypal.me/clubadventist Administrator of a few websites like https://adventistdating.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Each year in 1990 1995 and 2015 the vote gets closer and closer. At the rate the vote is growing closer Womans ordination will pass in 20 years. The Young people coming into the church believe in equality even in South American and Africa. It is only a matter of Time. The vote in 2015 was only 200 votes apart. So be of good cheer. We are slowing winning this fight for woman to be ordained. Quote Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberGuy Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 If the Unions are shut down who ordain women the GC will be coming after the conferences next who ordain women. This will be a disaster for the GC as many members will stop paying tithe but will pay the entire tithe and offering to the local church instead. Many are already doing just this. Quote Riverside CA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted October 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2016 On 9/29/2016 at 10:50 PM, CyberGuy said: Going to be hard for the GC to enforce their will on the American churches. They should re read our history. Americans do not like Things forced on them. We revolted against King George. We will revolt against King Ted Wilson. What's the "American" way? Is it not the rule of law as determined by the will of the majority? Has not the world church rejected WO in TWO sessions already? But the minority wants to impose their will on the majority. That is tyranny!!! They are causing divisions in the church! I have no problem with WO if it were voted in, but I am totally disgusted with those who are promoting schism by going against policy that has been voted on by the WORLD church. I have no problem if people keep pushing for WO, but at the end of the day, is it not one's duty to bow to the will of the majority? It would be one thing if we had a clear biblical mandate, but none exists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2016 Absent a clear Biblical mandate the will of the majority should not be imposed on others. The American way is to place boundaries on the will of the majority. The world Church has not rejected the ordination of women: 1) In SA it refused to grant Divisions the authority to decide. That is not a rejection of female ordination. 2) The world church has allowed women to be ordained as Elders. 3) The world church has not prohibited women from being ordained a Deacons and Deaconesses, both of which are being done. 4) Contrary to what many believe, there are valid points of disagreement as to the level of denominational administration that has the authority to decide questions as to ordination. 5) Some would argue for tyranny consisting of other examples of attempted control. 6) Contrary to Gerry's post above, his minority does not want to impose its will on his majority. Rather, his minority simply wants the freedom to conduct its affairs with self-determination and without having the will of others imposed on it. APL, Kevin H and GayatfootofCross 3 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators lazarus Posted October 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2016 59 minutes ago, Gerry Cabalo said: It would be one thing if we had a clear biblical mandate, but none exists. We, as a church, have boxed ourselves into a corner. In reality the GC is saying that the word "ordination" cannot be used when conferring a blessing/recognition and de facto ecclesiastical authority on a female pastor. It is acceptable when the pastor is male. The word "commission" is used for a woman. The designation "commissioned" entitles a female pastor to do all the things I can do as a male pastor except lead a conference/union etc or organize a church. This is a ridiculous situation. There is no Biblical basis for this difference in designation. There is no theological basis for the mess we are in. It now becomes a battle of wills and I pray that we can avoid the worst consequences of this. Gerry, as Gregory points out, the church ACCEPTS the ordination of women as Elders/Deaconesses. When it comes to being a female pastor it is called Commissioning but in reality it is ordination. IMHO it is a slight if hand. Quote Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence. Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted October 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2016 Agree. But in using the word "commissioning" it diminishes the role that women can have. While you may never be called to be a Conference President, you are assumed to be qualified for that role. While, solely on the basis of gender, females are assumed to not be qualified to serve as Conference President. Yet is sending us a message in China, which we are to blind to see. It just may be that our failure to listen to the message that God is giving us will result in God unwinding the tangle of administrative control in a manner that those on the front-lines will have to operate without (or diminished) support for their mission. Kevin H 1 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted October 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2016 A couple of things that bothers me is that there is Biblical evidence supporting women's ordination, but the picture presented is "We who believe in headship Theology are following the Bible and you who support women's ordination are in rebellion to the Bible." and we have gone from a church that had done careful Bible study into a church using a superficial Bible study to support Babylonian traditions. We have also been a church that agreed to unite on a few "Landmarks" and from there, as long as we were not fanatical, the permission to follow the Bible according to the dictates of our conscience. Now we are being told that we can no longer do this. That we need to be a church who are blindly obedient to the powers that be. About 200 years before Jesus Christ there started a movement among the rabbis for the Jews to STOP having women priests and rabbis. (a first question we should ask is how do you stop something unless you are doing it.). There were mixed reasons for this. First, as Jews had to deal more with non-Jews these women priests and rabbis were confused with the sacred prostitutes in paganism. But there was also a rabbi, Jesus Ben Sirach (spelling?) who's writings were so good that they were considered as a possible Biblical book and almost made it into the Bible, had a bad marriage. The equality among the Jewish husbands and wifes made it harder, so he wanted women in Judaism to have a status more like the women outside of Judaism had. The more liberal rabbis supported this idea and the conservative rabbis disagreed with it and would treat women better and would still have women rabbis. So the Jews had a conflict over this topic. The group that was against women priests and rabbis became more powerful. They were able to get added to Herod's temple something that we did not find in the Old Testament temple; a court of women where women could go no further (this put a stop to women priests). And in Numbers every Hebrew, man and woman, were required to wear a tassel with a blue thread in it. This was a reflection of priestly garment and was to remind every Hebrew that they were a kingdom of priests. While it can be used as an argument for women priests, it can also just be understood as the priesthood of all believers. However the Rabbis who wanted the Jews to stop having women priests and rabbis said that only MEN should wear this tassel and that women needed to STOP wearing this. This adding to God's word the court of women and removing the tassel from women's clothing was the beginning of replacing the word of God with the traditions of man. Women's ordination was the start of this happening which eventually lead to Jesus having to say "Your house is left to you desolate." We are following the foot prints of those rabbis who were rejecting women priests and rabbis. We are expecting a different outcome than those rabbis who rejected women's ordination back then. We think that instead of Jesus saying our house is left to us desolate, that Jesus will bless us. What do you call people who do the same thing and expect a different outcome? Tom Wetmore, Gail and GayatfootofCross 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted October 4, 2016 Share Posted October 4, 2016 Quote What do you call people who do the same thing and expect a different outcome? Would not be considered 'nice' to use the correct word/s!! Kevin H 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted October 4, 2016 Author Share Posted October 4, 2016 9 hours ago, The Wanderer said: amen, but people like that sound like some kind of alien to me. yeah it sounds alien supernatural out of this world I grew up in a church with heavy theological disagreements on other issues. The talk behind each others back sometimes was Christ like but sometimes teetering (if not rather blatant) on questioning others salvation . But we did manage to sit side by side at potluck without someone being stabbed by a plastic fork. If we cannot affirm Gods love and salvation for each other (see Jesus in every face) and that being the primary focus with heavy disagreements.. then we as a church have nothing to share with the world. Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gerr Posted October 4, 2016 Moderators Share Posted October 4, 2016 Kevin, if there was a clear statement in scripture that women can be priests or pastors, we wouldn't be having this conversation. In the absence of a clear statement, shouldn't the majority vote prevail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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