Appellate Court Rules Against Florist

[Green Cochoa]

5 hours ago, CoAspen said:

If you can refuse service for a wedding cake, food, or flowers, what keeps you from withholding other services?

Remember Desmond Doss?  The "law" wanted him to bear arms and work on Sabbath.  He didn't.  But did he refuse to serve? No.  Was he found to be "withholding other services"? No.

However, as far as I'm concerned, if you can find someone who has a conscientious reason for "withholding other services," I would say their conscience trumps any other man-made command.

I know of a case where an Adventist man fell into some disrepute in his church for having been seen buying cigarettes.  Upon investigation, it was found that he was buying them as one of his job duties while working for the prison and the cigarettes were not for himself but for the prisoners.  Had it been me, I would have denied this "service" on grounds of conscience.  I would not have bought the cigarettes.  When I was working for a particular school at one point in time, my conscience prevented me from entering the movie theater with the students.  It did not prevent me from driving the bus for them for the day's activities.  I found the school management to be accommodating of my conscience.  It seems many Adventists are less accommodating of the conscience of fellow members than those in the world would be.  That is shameful.  Liberty of conscience is to be respected by all--and the law must accommodate this as well, not the other way around.  If our conscience must be shaped by the law, then we will soon have First-day Adventists.

[bonnie]

I wonder what the response by some here would be a florist or baker refusing to honor a request by the KKK celebrating a KKK rally? Do the same rules apply? Would Jesus attend,bake a cake,provide special arrangements to honor their request?

 

There are  still some that feel strongly that compliance with a law that violates what they believe is God's law,they choose God's law. They are not attempting to shut down anyone,those that scream tolerance and love at every opportunity do everything possible to ruin someone's life,reputation or business

 

I custom make incontinent products for the mentally  and physically handicapped. When I started I was totally unaware of organized groups dealing with baby and diaper fetishes. At this time I am not forced to deal with those groups but they can and do make it difficult. A great deal of money can be made catering to their fetishes. All legal and becoming more and more accepted. Just another acceptable lifestyle. I absolutely will not knowingly provide the products they require,altho I do provide similar for those in need. That is discrimination no matter how you look at it based on my personal beliefs.  These groups do hold special functions and get togethers,part of that is sharing favorite providers of baby products for those choosing to wear diapers as adults and even those wanting to "learn how to be incontinent" so they fit into the group.

Would Jesus help facilitate their celebrations? Should a florist or bakery be effectively sued out of existence for not wanting any part of that? Hasn't happened yet as far as I know but what would be the difference?

Sometime ago I turned down a very large order from a mother wishing to have me make some needed products(questionable) in very feminine diapers/patterns/ruffles and hair bows for her special needs son. She had let his hair grow and thought bows for his now pigtails would look so cute. Nothing illegal,call it discrimination/hate/bigot or whatever,I would not have any part of something like that. Doesn't affect my life or my children, but voluntarily or sued I would not do it.

Recently a member of one of these groups wanted me to make baby rompers in xl mens size. Sizable amount of money involved,requesting enough room in the seat area so when they wore them with heavily padded diapers they would waddle like a baby. Perhaps Jesus would honor the request but somehow I don't think so. And yes,I made a judgement and discriminated. Not their eternal life,I made a judgement call on their behavior and what they were requesting me to do. I would not provide decorated cakes for their occasion or provide my services as a photographer

[B/W Photodude]

11 hours ago, bonnie said:

I wonder what the response by some here would be a florist or baker refusing to honor a request by the KKK celebrating a KKK rally? Do the same rules apply? Would Jesus attend,bake a cake,provide special arrangements to honor their request?

I think what we are seeing is full blown hypocrisy on the part of the left. If it were not so, why is Ivanka Trump's line of clothing being dropped out of many stores and you would be a bit pressed to find a reason other than the hysteria over Donald Trump.

Regarding the florist, she had sold flowers to these men before and they knew her. Why they would turn on her like they did was hateful. Her refusal to make flower arrangements for a gay wedding was more than just selling something off the shelf. She would have had to personally spend time and artistic talent and endeavor to create something she found to be wrong. No one should be compelled to do something they personally find repulsive.

[bonnie]

1 hour ago, B/W Photodude said:

I think what we are seeing is full blown hypocrisy on the part of the left. If it were not so, why is Ivanka Trump's line of clothing being dropped out of many stores and you would be a bit pressed to find a reason other than the hysteria over Donald Trump.

Regarding the florist, she had sold flowers to these men before and they knew her. Why they would turn on her like they did was hateful. Her refusal to make flower arrangements for a gay wedding was more than just selling something off the shelf. She would have had to personally spend time and artistic talent and endeavor to create something she found to be wrong. No one should be compelled to do something they personally find repulsive.

There are certain words that are thrown around that are simply meant to brow beat or intimidate those that hold a different viewpoint than the left. A different viewpoint means you are a self righteous hypocrite or religious bigot. Much of that view is also held by SDA's.

To voice an opinion and act on a religious conviction is something that cannot be tolerated unless it is theirs. It spells hate.  I believe a homosexual lifestyle is morally and biblically wrong. No hate implied or felt. I resent the actions of the left to make that a civil crime.  I do not want to take part in a celebration of that lifestyle. Regardless of those, SDA's included that seem to believe it is questionable if biblically wrong or claim that Jesus would take part by attending or providing in a gay marriage.

Discrimination has become a badly abused and misused word to make others unchristian.

Whether it is voting laws,gay marriage,abortion it really doesn't matter. 

I have been having nerve conduction tests and Dr visits to prepare for carpal tunnel surgery which I had yesterday. Every step of the way,I had to show either a medicaid card and drivers license or picture ID. Also had my picture taken at the registration desk. We have a large number of minority groups in our small towns. They are all asked for same. No one screams discrimination because these people are either to ignorant or poor to have that available. Yet to vote and require only some of that is discrimination.

 

How many Muslims bakers have you heard being sued for refusing something based on their religious beliefs. We had a pork fest here not long ago with a huge cake in the shape of a pig proclaiming pork the best white meat. Should a Muslim baker have been forced to provide that or lose his business? Perhaps Jesus would have provided the cake.

 

 

[Green Cochoa]

41 minutes ago, bonnie said:

We had a pork fest here not long ago with a huge cake in the shape of a pig proclaiming pork the best white meat. Should a Muslim baker have been forced to provide that or lose his business? Perhaps Jesus would have provided the cake.

Jesus provided the demons to remove the pork from the premises.  No compromise on His part--He discriminated between unclean and clean meats.