Are these the only 2 real issues facing Adventism today?

[deedee3]

Are women pastors and homosexual and gender issues the only 2 real issues facing Adventism today?  

[Gregory Matthews]

Are they the only issues?  No, they are not.

But, there are those who are convinced that the above two issues are symptomatic of foundational issues that affect the fundamental mission given to the SDA denomination.  They believe that we cannot get to the central business that God has given us in End Time until we come into some unity in what we do on these points.  To put what is believed into a simplified statement there are those who believe:

1)  On female clergy/ordination, or however you want to state it:  God is in charge of how His message is proclaimed and who proclaims it.  Satan always attempts set up an apostate counterfit for what God has established.  God's Church in End Time must reject that counterfit as it relates to female clergy/ordination.

2)  As to homosexuality:  The Church of God in End Time has been established by God to be a refuge for  those who have reached a specific level of commitment to God and the plan by which God intends for people to live their lives.  To admit people into membership who reject such is to place the SDA denomination in a position where God will have to reject it.

 

NOTE:  Please do not misunderstand what I have said above.  I believe that the above is a fair statement as to why many people believe that these issues are fundamental to the issues that we face today as a denomination.

 

 

                       

[JoeMo]

Are they the only issues? Certainly not.  Independent ministries (those not financially dependent upon the financial support of the denomination) like TOP seem to be an issue.  At a grass roots level, the veracity of some of EGW's proclamations is an issue.  The traditional SDA view of eschatology is an issue. If one reads this forum, the divinity of the Holy Spirit is an issue.  There are lots of issues, depending on your point of view.

[pierrepaul]

Yes, there are lots of issues. With a few exceptions, the SdA church has managed to be rather flexible on theology, soteriology, hymnology and most other "-ologies", mostly because these things are handled at the local congregation level or are matters of private belief over which no church body has any authority. We have the world-wide 28 fundamentals, but the decision to accept a member is local. If my Sabbath school classes veer off official SdA teaching, it's a matter for the local church to remove me as a teacher. Music, liturgy and forms of worship are "issues", but they are also handled locally. But when it comes to ecclesiology, by the nature of the questions, they are handled at higher levels - conference, union or GC. This is what makes it a church "issue".

The church can vote Young Earth Creationism as part of the 28 at the GC, and I as a member am free to ignore the vote. The church teaches that the OT tithe carries over from the Levites to the SdA professional clergy; I am free to reject that teaching. The church can teach pope=antichrist and the US federal Sunday law and I can reject that teaching. If the church teaches a male-only clergy, I can reject the teaching, but I, as a private member, cannot go out and hire a woman pastor or appoint her conference president. Unlike issues of private belief, ordination is corporate action which makes it a public issue. And unlike music or liturgy, which is a local congregational matter, ordination is a union matter, which turns it into a matter of debate for unions and the GC.

[Gregory Matthews]

JoMo:  I agree:

PierrePaul:  You have raised points of value for consideration.

 

[Kevin H]

On ‎3‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 8:58 PM, deedee3 said:

Are women pastors and homosexual and gender issues the only 2 real issues facing Adventism today?  

I'd like to put in my 2 cents worth here, in addition to the other posts.

There is a movement in liberal churches, who question the inspiration of the Bible and maybe even the belief in God that since the Bible is just of human origins that they have no trouble with both ordaining women and membership/ordination to homosexual and gender issues.

Seventh-day Adventists do believe in God and accept the Bible as inspired. For us we need to find Biblical reasons in how to deal with the above issues. What ever stand we make on these must be molded by the Bible.

But since there are churches who have made an accepting view of these issues who are not concerned over what the Bible teaches, we have members wo look at our discussion on these issues and jump to a conclusion of "Since there are non-Bible believing churches who have embraced women's ordination and people with gender issues, if Seventh-day Adventists end up ordaining women that means that we have to no longer be a Bible believing church and we would have to join the non-Bible believing churches. " and they oppose these issues in the name of wanting to keep us as a Bible believing church. They do not understand that there are more than two choices here.

[doug yowell]

The question seems a little misleading. The question might better read, "Are these two issues the only ones that Adventism is facing today? There are many issues facing Adventism today but it seems that there is only one or two that Adventism has been willing (albeit reluctantly) to face.  

[stinsonmarri]

It truly amazes me that as SDA do not see the times we are living in. Two things have been suggested that might be the major problem in the church. Well we, like both the Kanaanites and Israel of old rejected been chosen. Oh so many of do not even realize that Kanaanites was chosen first. Gen 15:16 They had the only High Priest of THE MOST HIGH, who already had Jerusalem. David extended it! If there is a High Priest, there is a Sanctuary, is just was not mention, it didn't need too if we realize the facts! Why is so hard to believe that YAHWEH choose the Kanaanites, why would HE want all of these people destroyed if they did not know HIM? They and the Egyptians knew HIM but HE call the Kanaanites, because they were prophesied by Noah what would happen to them if they rebell. They did and the curse came into effect. However, the Bible shows clearly that many were righteous, those Amorites who assisted Abraham from the time he came to the land of the Kanaanites. Gen Chapter 20 Sodom and Gomorrah were warned when they were captured and taken away. They had to know truth because Abraham asked to spare them if any righteous people were found. They became even worst so YAHWEH brought down Everlasting Fire and the Bible say it was example for us in the latter days. Jude 1:7 The second reason is because they were Black and YAHWEH knows everything even the bigotry of men today!

Israel, had to be given the truth all over again because they had forgot. The Levitical system was created, it not in the order like Melchizedek who was the first born. All ancient people believe in this symbolical belief. Why, because the first born represented YAHSHUA and even though they went astray they kept this belief! The seventy elders of Israel was supposed to be the priesthood but they went astray after seeing YAHSHUA with their own eyes and did not die! Ex 24:9-11. It was given to the Levites because of their loyalty. Israel too. was warned that even more curses would be poured out on them! Why? Because, they were given more details of YAHWEH'S Laws, Commandments, Judgments and Statues. They also were given YAHWEH'S Holy Convocation days which included the weekly Sabbath. These days were not nailed to the cross and even EGW stated that (I am not talking about the passover it was not a day, but a supper. YAHSHUA'S Supper was instituted in it place on the evening that begin the first of YAHWEH'S Holy Convocation day)! Precepts Given to Guard Decalogue. The Signs of the Times, April 15, 1875  Our problem with EGW, we do not listen when said take the Bible, first. Kanaanite were given 430 years and Israel was given 490 years. When they themselves said: Let his blood be on us and our children, the sealed their fate. The Hebrews do not exist anymore as the Bible claim it would happen. You cannot find their DNA all those say their are Israel or Hebrew how can they be, they cannot find Hebrew DNA. The Israelis are not Hebrew, but follow the prophecy of Noah. Gen 9:37 Jepheth dwells today in all the tents of Shem!!!

The problem with both of these chosen nations is even more noticeable today in the SDA church! The one problem, not woman being ordain, but we have return to pagan roots that the Catholic Church has upgraded! We have completely ignore Ex 20:2-4 and we can't and don't keep 8-11:

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of ELOHIYM, and have the testimony of YAHSHUA MESSIAH. Rev 12:17 

And Elohiym said to Moses, EHYAH ASHER EHYAH (I AM THAT I AM); and He said, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, EHYAH (I AM) has sent me to you.

And Elohiym said to Moses again, You shall say this to the sons of Israel, YAHWEH, the Elohe of your fathers, the Elohe of Abraham, the Elohe of Isaac, and the Elohe of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is how I should be rremembered from generation to generation. Ex 3:14,15

You shall have no other mighty ones against My face. You do not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of that which is in the heavens above, or which is in the earth beneath, or which is in the waters under the earth, you shall not bow to them, and you shall not serve them; for I am YAHWEH your ELOHIYM, a Zealous El, visiting the iniquity of fathers on sons, on the third and on the fourth generation, to those that hate Me; and doing kindness to thousands, to those loving Me, and to those keeping My commandments. Do not misuse my name. I am YAHWEH your ELOHIYM, and I will punish anyone who misuses my name. Ex 20:3-7 

And in all that I have said to you take heed. And make no mention of the name of other mighty ones, let it not be heard from your mouth. Ex 23:13 

To the Law and to the Testimony! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because there is no light to them! Isa 8:20

There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof. Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them.  Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain. And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, seeing false things, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith YAHWEH ELOHIYM, when YAHWEH hath not spoken. Eze 22:25-27 

If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith the YAHWEH of Hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Mal 2:2 

For I am YAHWEH, I do not change. Because of this, you sons of Jacob are not destroyed. Mal 3:6

For I testify together with everyone hearing the Words of the prophecy of this Book, if anyone adds to these things, YAHWEH will add upon him the plagues having been written in this Book. And if anyone takes away from the Words of the Book of this prophecy, YAHWEH will take away his part from the Book of Life, and out of the holy city, and of the things having been written in this Book. Rev 22:18, 19

How can we keep the Sabbath, which was made Holy, when we do not keep and recognize, THE FATHER'S TRUE, HOLY, RIGHTEOUS NAME. Both Kanaan and the Children of Israel dishonored HIS NAME! Prov 30:3-4 ask a simple question, what is HIS NAME and what is HIS SON'S NAME! Why would YAHSHUA said this:

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43 

YAHSHUA  answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. John 10:25 

I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. John 17:6 

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Mat 6:9  Every since I have been in this church I have always questioned the name god! Since, I realize we should not be calling THE HOLY SPIRIT a ghost! I ask you why do we do this, you know ghost do not exist or do you? Every religion on this earth use the name god, where did it come from? Word Origin traces it back to Satan! All encyclopedias said that when use the word it to to invoke or conjure up. Even the Catholic encyclopedia states this and has the nerved to say that is what we should do is to invoke god!!!!! Jesus is not in the NAME of YAHWEH, the J was not in ancient time it was a Y and the Latin used the I. YAHWEH is a actual transliterated word, which means it is the same pronunciation in all languages! I know since the SACRED NAME Movement started all these different sound started popping up! YAHu or YAHwa and so on and so on. But here is the facts many are not of aware that all languages that were confounded by ELOHIYM have vowel sounds! Lot of these new so call scholar, preacher, so call religious leader do not know linguistic. Many come on the scene without studying ancient history and they truly do not understand the evidence that Ebla and Paleo History has brought to light! You just can't go off on something without doing major research. If something has been covered up like a lie, it is just like an archaeological dig! There is not one lie but several and you have to slowly meticulously with prayer and THE HOLY SPIRIT leading you to uncover the truth! The letters aleph, yodh and waw represented both vowels and consonants. It is Satan that want man to complete forget HIS NAME! By doing this we forget also the Sabbath. YOU CAN NOT KEEP IT HOLY if YOU DON'T REVERENCE HIS NAME! When you break and use HIS NAME falsely did all of the other problems of sin becomes overwhelming and then we are subjugated to Satan as slaves! I know many will reject what I have written, but it is my hope that those who are wise will awaken. We once were a peculiar people, we are not anymore. We have compromise in more ways then I can count! Come out of her my people is the cry, be not like the world. The use these unholy and profane name in cursing, merry making and more! We have invoke and conjure up Satan and he has deceived the whole world, including the SDA church!

 

 

[LifeHiscost]

11 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

 

We once were a peculiar people, we are not anymore. We have compromise in more ways then I can count! Come out of her my people is the cry, be not like the world.

 

Since the remnant church is he last church before the coming of Jesus the 2nd time, where would you suggest they go if they left It?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hWYTAMt4qI

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

 

[JoeMo]

15 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

Since the remnant church is he last church before the coming of Jesus the 2nd time, where would you suggest they go if they left It?

Salvation is not through the church; it is through faith in the grace provided to us by the death of His Son.  The SDA (or any other) Church will not get you into heaven. Faith in Yahweh will.

[aka]

Thank you, Joe, for testifying to truth that salvation does not come from being baptized in an SDA full body baptismal font or being voted into church membership, nor investing endless unpaid hours in church service.

17 hours ago, JoeMo said:

it is through faith in the grace provided to us by the death of His Son.

....and the confirmation of validation of God by His resurrection.

[LifeHiscost]

On 4/13/2017 at 7:47 AM, JoeMo said:

Salvation is not through the church; it is through faith in the grace provided to us by the death of His Son.  The SDA (or any other) Church will not get you into heaven. Faith in Yahweh will.

 

 

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, Apr 14, 2017 at 7:01 AM
Subject: Daily Reflection-"It Is Finished"

"It is Finished"

 The disciples surely thought it was finished,
that the world had gone insane.
How could the Father allow this to happen?
Was Jesus teaching all in vain?

Both Mary's surely thought it was finished,
as they witnessed their worst fears,
seeing the Man they both loved near death.
They could hardly see Him through their tears.

The high priests surely thought it was finished,
their voices rising in a victory shout,
as they watched their plan grow to fruition,
thinking their competition had been wiped out.

Pontius Pilate just wanted it finished.
To what crimes can this Man confess?
Since I can find no fault with Him,
I will simply wash my hands of this mess.

Judas conscience surely knew he was finished,
as he regretted his actions too late.
He had betrayed the only Son of God,
and his name would earn history's hate.

The thief surely thought he was finished,
receiving just punishment for his life of sin,
until a single plea, Lord, remember me,
his new home in paradise to win.

The centurion surely thought, we're finished.
What is this wicked deed we have done?
As the earth beneath his feet trembled,
Surely this Man was God's Son.

Jesus cried out, it is finished.
Yet it had only just begun.
The Father and Son were reunited.
The two deities again became one.

Christ cried out, it is finished.
But it was only just beginning.
The apostles would continue His mission.
Hearts and souls they would soon be winning.

Satan's power over us, it is finished,
since Christ played the Sacrificial Lamb's part.
Jesus gave His life for you and me.
He's become the focus of the Christian's heart.

 ~ Lanette Kissel ~

Dennis Long, BCC
Spiritual Care Director/Chaplain
Frank R. Howard Memorial Hospital

Adventist Health Home Care & Hospice Services

 His Grace, For Our Growth, and to His Glory

[LifeHiscost]

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

² God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

³ Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

⁴ But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

11 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

 

² God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

³ Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

⁴ But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

⁵ Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace....Romans 11

And what does a remnant look like. They follow the same thing Jesus taught from the beginning of His time on this earth. And what are His followers called.

The voice of joy, and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom, and the voice of the bride, the voice of them that shall say, Praise the Lord of hosts: for the Lord is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: and of them that shall bring the sacrifice of praise into the house of the Lord. For I will cause to return the captivity of the land, as at the first, saith the Lord....Jeremiah 33

And will the remnant of disciples in the last days be organized? Will they be recognized by name in that remnant? A remnant that each chooses to follow the same pathway as Jesus.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me....Matthew 16

  29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise....Galatians 3

God is Love!~Jesus saves!   

[stinsonmarri]

LifeHisCost: The Bible never called the church the remnant, but her seed. The seed is 144,000! The SDA make a false claim of the church being a remnant! It can't it is impossible because the wheat and the tare are in the church! Only those who are chosen, known even by YAHSHUA as the five wise virgins. Daniel Chapter 12 calls them wise, why Rev Chapter 14 calls them virgins. The five foolish are those in the church which is sadly the majority alive will be lost!

So, the church cannot save you - YAHSHUA saves!

 

Blessings!

[JoeMo]

11 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

The seed is 144,000! The SDA make a false claim of the church being a remnant!

My recent studies are leading me to consider that Israel is the remnant - the 144,000; 12,000 from each tribe (likely includes the wild branches grafted into the root as described in Romans 11).  These will enjoy a special closeness to the Jewish King - His inner circle so to speak.  The innumerable multitude mentioned after the 144,000 is likely the rest of us who are saved.

[LifeHiscost]

46 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

My recent studies are leading me to consider that Israel is the remnant - the 144,000; 12,000 from each tribe (likely includes the wild branches grafted into the root as described in Romans 11).  These will enjoy a special closeness to the Jewish King - His inner circle so to speak.  The innumerable multitude mentioned after the 144,000 is likely the rest of us who are saved.

⁹ Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;

¹⁰ And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

¹¹ Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

¹² Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

¹³ Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye.

¹⁴ And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness....Colossians 3

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

 

[phkrause]

13 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

LifeHisCost: The Bible never called the church the remnant, but her seed. The seed is 144,000! The SDA make a false claim of the church being a remnant! It can't it is impossible because the wheat and the tare are in the church! Only those who are chosen, known even by YAHSHUA as the five wise virgins. Daniel Chapter 12 calls them wise, why Rev Chapter 14 calls them virgins. The five foolish are those in the church which is sadly the majority alive will be lost!

So, the church cannot save you - YAHSHUA saves!

 

Blessings!

The way that I have learned this, is that the SDA church is the remnant church, but that the remnant that are still here on earth when Jesus comes to get those that are still alive, are called the remnant and they are people from all the different churches, denominations, etc.

[phkrause]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

My recent studies are leading me to consider that Israel is the remnant - the 144,000; 12,000 from each tribe (likely includes the wild branches grafted into the root as described in Romans 11).  These will enjoy a special closeness to the Jewish King - His inner circle so to speak.  The innumerable multitude mentioned after the 144,000 is likely the rest of us who are saved.

How do you figure? All but 2 tribes were left after Assyria took Israel exile! They have been gone for a few thousand years, and Benjamin has been pretty much incorporated into the tribe of Judah!!

[JoeMo]

2 hours ago, phkrause said:

How do you figure? All but 2 tribes were left after Assyria took Israel exile! They have been gone for a few thousand years, and Benjamin has been pretty much incorporated into the tribe of Judah!!

It's in the Bible!

" Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

⁵ From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,

from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,

from the tribe of Gad 12,000,

⁶ from the tribe of Asher 12,000,

from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,

from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,

⁷ from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,

from the tribe of Levi 12,000,

from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,

⁸ from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,

from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,

from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000." (Rev 7:4-8)

[phkrause]

You must know I have read that!! But can you show me where those other lost tribe's of Israel live?? I can tell you where the tribe of Judah lives! Pick a country, continent, city, state, etc., and that's a Jew not a Hebrew.

[JoeMo]

12 hours ago, phkrause said:

But can you show me where those other lost tribe's of Israel live??

They were dispersed all over the world.  I don't know a Simeonite from a Josephite from a Gentile; but God knows; and He will draw them.  I don't know how God will do it; but if He said He was going to do it, He will.

I also believe that some of those tribal members will be the wild branches grafted in as described in Romans 11.

Even before the schism between Israel and Judah ("Jews"), the Bible seems to differentiate between Judah and Israel.  Judah seems to refer to those from Judah and Benjamin ( the Southern Kingdom), and the other tribes (the Northern Kingdom) was referred to as Israel.  See 1 Samuel 11:8, 17:52 and 18:16, for example. 1 and 2Kings are full of examples of the separation between Israel and Judah, as are 1 and 2Chronicles.  God differentiates between Israel and Judah throughout OT Prophecies.  It appears that those taken from Jerusalem from the tribe of Judah were referred to as Jews upon their return to Jerusalem.  IMHO, Jews are a subset of Israel.  Of course, intermarriage between Jews, Israel, and Gentiles over the past few thousand years admittedly confuses the issue (for me, at least).

[stinsonmarri]

I am here to wake you up! Israel known as the Hebrew are no more!

YAHWEH shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from Heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. YAHWEH shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. The fruit of thy land, and all thy labours, shall a nation which thou knowest not eat up; and thou shalt be only oppressed and crushed always: YAHWEH shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other mighty ones, wood and stone. Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee: Deut 28:24, 25, 33, 36, 45, 53

YAHWEH will not spare him, but then the anger of YAHWEH and his zealously shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and YAHWEH shall blot out his name from under heaven. Deut 29:20

So many have believed a lie about Ham, that they did not read this as well:

ELOHIYM shall make out in the open act of misleading someone Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Gen 9:27

I need to explain two thing before continuing. If you notice the word enlarge is not there and should be there. Sad to say another cover up by even the Bible translators today. Ask yourself why? There are 10 verses that says enlarge but 8 of them use the exact word "rachab," in the Old Testament. But the Paleo Hebrew word "pathah" is use on for the above Scripture. What I gave you is what "pathah" should state. Secondly the Bible never use the word slavery, but servant and most have accuse Ham of being a homosexual, the father of the Black people. Interesting isn't it! Did Ham disrespect his father! Of course he did, he was the youngest and foolish! But let's read and see what really happen:

 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father, and told his two brethren without. Gen 9:22

Now how does that make you a homosexual?????? Now, Noah did not curse him but Canaan and again another lie has been sadly put on the Black people again!!! The Bible says clearly and plainly this:

And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.  And he said, Blessed be YAHWEH ELOHIYM  of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant. Gen 9:25, 26  

First of all, Canaan was only to be servants of servants to his brothers and not to his uncle's! Which were Cush, Punt and Mizarim-hello! This is true they never conquered their brothers and always had to pay tribute to them, end of story! Yes, they also never conquered their uncle's descendants either. Remember Carthage and Rome in the Punic Wars? Also, Hannibal???? They should have taken Rome Carthage was the Phonecians and their ships and military was actually more superior, but they lost! Well that shows you that Noah was a prophet and his prophecies are accurate!

Well, no that we got those facts out of the way, Japheth was to dwell in the Tents of Shem. The Medes and Persians took over Elam, Iraq and Iran and the other Semitic land. So actually Japheth children are really fighting each other! They have two religions that is bumping heads that they created Islam and Christianity. Ishmael, Abraham's son had nothing to do with Islam at all. Joktan of Shem and Cush (Kush) of Ham produced the Arabs. However, as I stated earlier as a Biblical Historian (I am not bragging just providing my credentials!), these are the facts. Indo stand for Aryan people and Indo Iranian etc. is the same thing.

Finally, the Ashkenazi's came from Gomer, Japheth son. They said very clearly the are not Hebrews and they are correct! They are Indo Europeans!!!! Israel is no more, Ashkenazi's call themselves Israelis also Zionist! Let me also state that during the time of Hezekiah many children of the 10 tribes came back and lived in and around Judea. The Bible said Israel, this word Jew comes from the Romans and when YAHSHUA came and died Israel themselves said "let HIS BLOOD be on us and our children! They were done! Stoning Stephen ended their 490 years, that's what we know from the 2300 day prophecy!!!! Plus the Judaic religion is not true anymore too! So is this Judeo-Christian concept too! 

You cannot find Hebrew DNA today, so those claim relationship for Afrikans to Europeans, yes they are related due to the intermarriage of people from the Greek and Romans world. They spread and mixed people from Mesopotamia, Afrika, Arabia throughout the world. Now before everyone come down on me just read Deut Chapter 28-30 and the other verses I gave you please. I am not racist but why I am trying to do is to unrace the SDA. We have to stop this hating making one ethnic group over all the color people. You can claim to love THE MOST HIGH and disrespecting us your brothers and sisters. We all came from Adam!!!!!! I am sick of seeing all the people of the Bible White! This is ridiculous, I am sorry but White people did not come around until the Medes and Persians, Greek and Rome etc.  The Bible of the OT deal with Shem and Ham children who intermarry throughout ancient times. Well, I have given my Biblical history lesson from the Bible so please show me from the Bible where I am wrong okay!

Happy Sabbath and be bless!

[debbym]

On 3/28/2017 at 5:58 PM, deedee3 said:

Are women pastors and homosexual and gender issues the only 2 real issues facing Adventism today?  

these are two issues facing the church today that those who post at CA have decided to discuss in this area of the forum.

other issues have been discussed elsewhere, like the issue of how righteousness by faith is viewed and understood by various leaders, the issue of legalism, and issues of how to keep the Sabbath discussed... no ...there are more and more issues.