Do You Think Campmeetings are Outdated

[Ellen]

With internet, You Tube, Television, intercontinental travel so available, traveling to a site to worship together seems unnecessary.  Some have reduced to 1 day, some one weekend. 

When I was younger only the largest cities had really good speakers besides the pastor of each church.  Camp meeting would bring in evangelists and great orators who would make it 'can't miss' occasion.

What is your experience?

 

[aka]

It comes down to what motivates one to even want to show up at a camp meeting.

We need to analyse what rewards one has being a participant or spectator.

1. We see again loved ones who moved away from our district

2. We give our kids exposure to fun and folic with unknown sda kids (who might even teach them privately about illicit pleasures)

3. The teen-agers in their assembly tent gets to listen to various bands banging on the drums as loud as they wish

4. The feel of SDA family being a larger unit than the local church helps promote a broader perspective

5. Now is yet another chance to give money for "whatever" the management is asking for

6. One might even listen to an inspirational devotional sermon (if you're lucky)

7. Packing up the family for the long trip to the campgrounds seems more holy and indeed more economical then a cruise-ship trip to the Bahamas

8. After all, the majority of SDA's are conditioned into a 'sheep-herd mentality'.

They go with the flow and gather where gatherings are gathered. 

 

[JoeMo]

Hi aka, Interesting post; although I can't tell if you liked or disliked camp meetings.  Maybe you were showing the pros and cons - which is good!

I was an adult before I became an SDA; so I have no early memories of camp meeting girlfriends or "adventures" while the adults were listening to a sermon.  My kids (especially now that they are adults) tell stories of camp meeting escapades that I will never be able to un-hear. 

My first camp meetings were in the Texico Conference.  They were pretty awesome.  There were always world-class speakers, classes, music, and food.  three days of fun and fellowship!  When we moved away from New Mexico, camp meeting (as well as ingathering and investment activity) kinda fell by the wayside for us big-city folks.  The rural areas still have pretty well attended one-day camp meetings.  As Ellen said, the current era of electronic communication and social media connects us all in a way, but it's not the same as face-to-face contact.  I still occasionally attend big SDA events (like (ToP when it's in town or the first few meetings of big evangelical outreaches.)  One of the things that "bugged me about camp meetings was the emphasis on buying your Sabbath "meal tickets" before sundown on Friday.  It always seemed like trading U.S. Government script (illegal to use on Sabbath) for special "SDA script" (legal to use on Sabbath).  To me it was the equivalent of using a credit card at a restaurant on Sabbath; so technically you weren't paying for your meal until the credit card statement was due.

Speaking of out-of date practices, along with camp meetings, are city-wide or region-wide evangelistic series outdated (at least in North America)?  The last couple of them I have attended were just about 100% SDA's and just a very few potential converts; and the few who were baptized usually left the church after a few months.  For me, one-on-one evangelism seems more successful.

[aka]

9 hours ago, JoeMo said:

For me, one-on-one evangelism seems more successful.

Way-ta-go! That's the truth. It's also my vision of proper outreach with lasting effects when a true conversion takes place.

You used a very apt description of the analogy between Government script and meal-ticket buying before Sabbath hours. I liked that.

For the sake of being polite I try not to downgrade established customs of this denomination. So far be it for me to downgrade the habits of camp meetings as they are right now. However, I firmly believe that this new generation of young adults should come together to their own pow-wow for writing up a new revamped agenda of how camp meeting ought to be organized and executed.

[phkrause]

15 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Speaking of out-of date practices, along with camp meetings, are city-wide or region-wide evangelistic series outdated (at least in North America)?  The last couple of them I have attended were just about 100% SDA's and just a very few potential converts; and the few who were baptized usually left the church after a few months.  For me, one-on-one evangelism seems more successful.

And why do you think that those baptized left? From my experience it had nothing to do with the meeting per say!! Because after the meetings is when the one to one is the most important! I remember when living and going to evangelistic meetings back in the 60's in NYC. The pastor, these were meetings for the Jewish people in NY, would get a good number of Jews and others baptized and within months the Jewish ones would be gone, but the others would still be there!! It seemed that our members would mingle with the non Jews, but not with the Jewish ones. Just as any evangelistic meeting ends, that's when the one to one takes over! So if no one keeps up with that individual fellowship, than the evangelistic series definitely loses its meaning and seems outdated. To me its that fellowship, be it one on one or in that big meeting, that's missing!!

[JoeMo]

10 minutes ago, phkrause said:

Just as any evangelistic meeting ends, that's when the one to one takes over! So if no one keeps up with that individual fellowship, than the evangelistic series definitely loses its meaning and seems outdated.

Exactly!  That is where mass evangelism falls apart - it's not the evangelist's fault or the denomination's fault.  Newcomers see all this fellowship and love and "glitter" during the series; and then the local churches (which means us individuals) fail to pick up the ball!  Then there are those who feel they must "educate" new members in the ways of the church - warning them of jewelry and make-up and women in pants and bringing chicken to a pot luck.  Plus, the affluent and the gregarious are "adopted" more easily than the shabby, quiet, and shy people.

In my way of personal evangelism, I usually become friends first by doing little things for people and taking time to develop some sort of relationship.  Then I discretely work in witnessing.  Some people could care less; but many are eager to discuss spiritual matters once the subject is breached.  I even had a "Book" (aka Bible) Club here at work for a few years.  My goal is to bring people to Jesus - not necessarily Adventism.  I do invite them to church; but if they don't want to go or go and don't like it, I don't press the issue (except maybe to go to church with them sometimes; putting on the pressure to reciprocate).

Bottom line is, most people aren't that interested in what you have to say until you show them how interested you are in them as people.  That way, religious conversations tend to stay conversations between friends instead of arguments between strangers.

[aka]

19 hours ago, JoeMo said:

"Bottom line is, most people aren't that interested in what you have to say until you show them how interested you are in them as people.  That way, religious conversations tend to stay conversations between friends instead of arguments between strangers."

That's quite right. You obviously understand what makes people 'tic'.

I'm always amazed that the Jehovah Witness folk get people baptized and join their community. I consider them even more legalistic in fishing for persons than the SDA's are. Do new converts actually stay in that community because of the doctrines or because they made a friend among them?

[Gregory Matthews]

As to Campmeeting:

*   The old style of 10-day campmeeting is expensive.  Further, the people attending typically do not represent the membership of the sponsoring Conference. Typically they may be retired people for all over the U.S. who travel in their Camper from place to place attending multiple Campmeetings.

*   New week-end type of Campmeeting is often simply just a social-get-together on Sabbath.

[JoeMo]

5 hours ago, aka said:

I'm always amazed that the Jehovah Witness folk get people baptized and join their community. I consider them even more legalistic in fishing for persons than the SDA's are. Do new converts actually stay in that community because of the doctrines or because they made a friend among them?

JW's are masters of one-on-one evangelism.  They faithfully go door-to-door passing out literature and inviting people to in-home Bible Studies and church.  People who "take the bait" are frequently invited to members' homes for dinner and parties (an much as JW's party).  I was on the verge of being baptized as a JW when I was turned on to the Sabbath.  They had no satisfactory answers as to how Sabbath got changed to Sunday; so I eventually became an SDA.  JW culture is similar to SDA culture; so I still count JW's as friends; and am always cordial to them when they come to the door.  I even had one in my Bible Study at work!  She became a sold-out Jesus freak after about a year in our study - went totally charismatic.

 

I personally don't think younger people have the stamina or time for a 4 to 6-week, 5 or 6 nights/week commitment to a traditional SDA evangelistic event.  I also don't think younger people are as interested in a denomination as they are in Christianity on a more global basis.  I don't try to turn people on to Adventism when I witness; I try to turn them on to Jesus.

[Kevin H]

Just got back from campmeeting. Yes, they continue until Saturday Night but taking a day to do things around the house before returning to work Friday.

I find both campmeeting and Fellowship of Christian magician's conference amazing. We have heard some excellent speakers, and these past couple of years the New York conference has been having seminars that is more focused on training for the church and community. We had the National Guard come in telling how we can help with disasters, and a 2 day seminar on keeping the church safe. (One thing I found interesting is there is now a sign between say church leaders, the "OK" sign only upside down to be 911 to let them know that they need to call 911.) Along with this church leaders should think before hand as to how pacifistic they are and to assign emergency roles based on comfort  levels.

And of course there is the reunion of old friends and making new friends.

Sadly, this year due to my mom's stroke and not knowing how she'd do traveling, and the neighbor helping my sister when we are away, we decided to miss the Fellowship of Christian Magician's conference. Those days my heart was there (fortunately the late show staff posted some of the videos they made for the late show).  The computer helps, but there is something about being at both places in person. f

(And may I recommend you to join the Fellowship of Christian magican's and attend at least one conference to see how you like it. While it started out for magicians it has grown. They now have chock drawing, face painting, juggling, ballooning, puppets, ventriloquism, drama/mime/story telling, clowning, as well as magicians. The classes for adults include learning/improving your art, how to run a business with the art, and of course how to use your art to share Jesus. For children they have a program called "Kids Wow" where they teach about these different arts and how to use it to share Jesus.  My prayer is for some young parents to bring your children there for "Kid's Wow" and for you to both learn some of these arts and help our with "Kids Wow" and bring back what you learn to have  "Kid's Wow" sessions at Campmeetings, as well as in Vacation Bible Schools. Our kids deserve the chance to learn these art forms and how to use them to share their faith.)

[aka]

My faith in Jesus as my redeemer leaves no space for deception in any form. 

Magicians are using tricks of their trade to produce an illusion in my head that what I am seeing is truth when it is not.

Watching magicians often enough will desensitize my understanding of known truth learned from the material world's rules and regulations.

We have OT verses warning us not to get involved with necromancer, wizards, sorcerers, witches, fortune-tellers and the like. To get involved means 'sin' in the eyes of God in heaven.

Entertaining as most magicians are, their illusions are just an soft entry drug along the road to hardline Occultism. 

 

[CoAspen]

Quote

...... will desensitize my understanding ....

Glad to see that you are speaking about yourself and not making a blanket statement about the effects for others. As for myself it does not work that way, I can differentiate between reality and make-believe. Have not been able to find any correlation data for illusions being a....

Quote

...soft entry drug along the road to hardline Occultism. 

I do remember that EGW had similiar ideas about reading 'fiction novels' saying that reading those would desensitize the reader into a loss of emotions when the real happened. Not correct for me.

[Kevin H]

Until recent years what we call "magic" as in the performing arts was considered a form of Juggling. The magic the Bible warns against are things where people are doing things such as casting spells, reaching out to a supernatural power etc. What people like the Fellowship of Christian magicians do is like other ways to illustrate stories. And these illusions are only one art form of study in Fellowship of Christian Magicians. Others include Chock drawings (I remember growing up in church we had a lady who did wonderful chock drawings and I wish we had more young people who can do this art form.) face painting, juggling, ballooning (Is that deception since they fool you into making the balloons look like different objects?) puppets, ventriloquism, clowning, drama/mime/storytelling, as well as illusions.

HMS Richards Jr. was quite an accomplished magician in the entertainment form and his father a big fan of magicians.

[aka]

1 hour ago, Kevin H said:

HMS Richards Jr. was quite an accomplished magician in the entertainment form and his father a big fan of magicians.

ahhhh, interesting. I didn't know that. None the less, I don't like being fooled or led astray by illusionists.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

My Dad was a magician, and so is my brother (who is an SDA minister).  My cousin is a professional magician.  

there's a big difference in *knowing* that you're watching an illusion by a magician, vs. being "led astray" by someone (or an entity) who has ulterior motives in wanting you to believe a lie.  Magic (legerdemain) isn't *Magick*...

But I realize some do not enjoy the art of magic.  Just as I despise April Fools Day — but with AFD, one doesn't know if someone's kidding you or not.

[Gregory Matthews]

Campmeeting, it means different things to different people.  To me, I always think of the Central California Conference Campmeeting a Soquel, California.  That is the one that we always attended.

The following story is true, but I was not involved in it in any way.

I am reminded of a teen who would find her/him-self alone in a tent at Campmeeting.   She/he would hit the beach during the day at Santa Cruz.  While she/he was at the beach, he/she would rent the tent out to teen couples on an hourly basis.

NOTE:  I am intentionally attempting to prevent the identification of the person involved.  Any comments as to the parents of the teen would be inappropriate and wrong.  Therefore, I ask that no comments about the parents be made.   The actual situation was very complex.  If such comments are made, I will remove them.  All responsible people simply did the best that they could under the actual circumstances and the situations that people were in.

So, why am I telling this story?  In my family, we spent 10 days at the Soquel Campmeeting every year.  It was just something that we did.  On weekends, I remember the thousands of people who came in for Sabbath services.  I have many memories.  I remember the mentally ill people who came.  I have many memories.  As a clergyperson, I remember being involved in Campmeeting in the Potomac Conference--to include the cost in funding and other resources to have Campmmeeting.  But, as a teen at Soquel, I really do not remember substantial spiritual enrichment.

I will tell you a story of my involvement at a Potomac Conference Campmeeting.  I was placed in charge of the candy sales in the store.  I was not overly impressed with the importance of that position, but I understood it to confer upon me the full authority to conduct the sale of the candy in whatever manner I chose to do.  So, when a kid would come in with his tightly clutched dollar bill and want to purchase some candy,  I would offer to bargain with her/him as to the amount of candy that I would sell for the dollar.  Soon the word got out and the kids were descending upon me in mass all wanting to purchase some candy.  I sold the entire candy supply out in one day.  I was now no longer needed to sell candy.

  

 

 

 

[LynnDel]

I still enjoy campmeeting. Some of the best have been at various Feasts of Tabernacles held at that time of the year. I don't know why, but it seems the best sermons are by given at  campmeetings.

I also went to Soquel for quite a few years, staying in the tents on the hillside. My young daughters enjoyed it, too, but when I observed the spirit and antics of the teens attending, I vowed I would not take my girls there when they were older, and I didn't.

Not many people can tolerate sitting for hours listening to sermons. Lately we tend to sit in our RV and listen to the sermons that are broadcast from the main tent, if that is available. We enjoy fellowship with friends we seldom see at any other time.

Not many leaders know how to attract teens to spiritual things, especially at camp meeting when the availability of friends and socialization seems to overshadow all. It's a huge dilemma.

[aka]

LynnDel,

I just love a.....        

 

 

[Gail]

I am currently at Camp. We still do the 9-day long style. My feet don't like Camp very much.

[Gail]

The fires are a couple hours north of us. The evacuated towns were 100 Mile House and Williams Lake, but I think that the all-clear has been given to residents of both to return. I know that some of the evacuees came down to Camp here for a few days.

We don't have any smoke here, which is nice.

[aka]

5 hours ago, Gail said:

"I am currently at Camp. We still do the 9-day long style. My feet don't like Camp very much."

Here's a solution: 

You'll be the envy of the crowd at camp as they watch you whiz by with the greatest of ease from tent to tent and meeting to meeting. 

[phkrause]

On 7/26/2017 at 2:59 AM, aka said:

Here's a solution: 

You'll be the envy of the crowd at camp as they watch you whiz by with the greatest of ease from tent to tent and meeting to meeting.