Opinion Poll of Adventists about Ordination of Women

[phkrause]

October 6, 2017:      A strong majority of Adventists support the ordination of women to the gospel ministry, including those in developing nations in Africa, Asia and Latin America. That is the perhaps surprising result of a survey conducted during the summer for Adventist Today.

https://atoday.org/opinion-poll-of-adventists-about-ordination-of-women/

[dgrimm60]

PHKRKAUSE

this  was  interesting but  I  THINK   that the 5 choices  could  have  ask questions  differently

in the survey there was  different  percentages  to the  2nd  ---3rd --- 4th  questions

dgrimm60                               

[phkrause]

9 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

and they base this on talking to just less than 1200 people from around the entire world. Sorry, but I dont buy anything that goes on such flimsy innuendo

And you have the right to disagree with the article!! I didn't post it to claim its right or wrong!!!!! I posted it because I thought it was interesting. Now as far as I know, and that's only to the churches that I've been to, if I took a survey it would be overwhelmingly for women to be ordinated!!

[LifeHiscost]

3 hours ago, phkrause said:

And you have the right to disagree with the article!! I didn't post it to claim its right or wrong!!!!! I posted it because I thought it was interesting. Now as far as I know, and that's only to the churches that I've been to, if I took a survey it would be overwhelmingly for women to be ordinated!!

I am inclined to to be in agreement. However I just read this, this morning in my morning devotions.

…26I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught. 28And now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears, we may be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming.…

5Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding....Proverbs 3

11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 13For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.....1Timothy 2

 

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[Gregory Matthews]

Please note:  The above Biblical quote does not mention ordination.

 

[JoeMo]

21 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Notice also that Paul says "I suffer not"; not that God suffers not.  Could this verse just be stating Paul's preferences rather than God's command?  I think it's possible.

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, JoeMo said:

  23 hours ago, LifeHiscost said:

But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

Acts 21:8 On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. (NKJ)

To prophesy is to speak for another.  So these women were speaking FOR the Lord.  I don't read that Paul told them to "be in silence". 

[8thdaypriest]

Consider the culture and the time.  There was NO birth-control.  A woman's first duty is to raise up her children.  If a woman is past child bearing age, then I see nothing wrong with her taking up full time ministry. 

Perhaps this is what Paul meant by "saved in child bearing". 

[LifeHiscost]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Acts 21:8 On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. (NKJ)

To prophesy is to speak for another.  So these women were speaking FOR the Lord.  I don't read that Paul told them to "be in silence". 

While thinking logically of the truth contained here, I needed some biblical verification. Thank you for bringing this verse to my attention.

God is Love!~Jesus saves! 

[8thdaypriest]

There was another aspect to this, in Paul's day and the Greek/Roman culture.  Wives were kept uneducated, and at home.  There was a class of prostitutes however, which were VERY EDUCATED.  Greek men did NOT have conversations with their wives.  Wives were for one thing only - making sons, or daughters to use as bargaining chips.  They were kept sequestered to make sure that any issue was the husbands. 

The men wanted conversation and entertainment, along with their sex, (think Geisha) and a class of educated escorts rose up to fill "the need".  When those women began to convert to Christianity, many of them were more educated than the men who were running the congregations.  And here was Paul, zealous for the reputation of the developing church.  He would not want these women to take leadership roles in those congregations. 

Going back to the wives:  What happens when women get together who have been shut up without company for some time?  Yup.  A lot of chatter.  And they were usually up in a balcony overlooking the group of men.  No wonder that Paul begged them, "Please ladies, could we have some quiet!"   hahahaha

When we apply the conditions of our own time and culture to those early congregations,  we take Paul out of context. 

There is a little book I read years ago that speaks to this.  "What Paul Really Said About Women" by John Temple Bristow.  It's very worth a read.  

Some of Paul's teaching on women was quite radical for that age.  "Love you wife AS yourself".  Seriously!  "Your body belongs to your wife."  A Roman man would have found that one really hard to swallow. 

[8thdaypriest]

What ROLE are we really talking about, which women should not fill?  Baptizing?  Preaching from the pulpit?  Administrator?  Counselor?

I mean, I would take the advice of a 70 yr old - long in faith - grandmother, OVER a newly ordained young pastor - any day! 

A woman can become a geophysicist, or a biochemist, or a US senator, but somehow, when she enters the church door, she is confined to teaching kids or other women, and is asked only to cook, or sing, or maybe do the budget. 

Over the years I have received emails - from men - telling me it is not my place to teach.   Then WHY did the Lord call me to teach?  I WAS called to teach.  I have absolutely no doubt of that.  I have taught for some 38 years now.  And I'm a woman.  And MEN read the teachings on my website. 

I wonder what Paul will say to me.  I'm sure that I will meet him one day. 

[8thdaypriest]

On 10/18/2017 at 11:26 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

Acts 21:8 On the next day we who were Paul's companions departed and came to Caesarea, and entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him. 9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who prophesied. (NKJ)

To prophesy is to speak for another.  So these women were speaking FOR the Lord.  I don't read that Paul told them to "be in silence". 

I would think SDAs would be open to a woman teaching.  They have reprinted the teachings of a woman - Ellen White - for 150+ yrs.

I don't remember that Mrs White ever baptized anyone.  So maybe that ROLE the SDAs would reserve for men. 

[8thdaypriest]

Judges 4:4 "Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, was judging Israel at that time." (NKJ)

 2 Kings 22:14 "So Hilkiah the priest, Ahikam, Achbor, Shaphan, and Asaiah went to Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe. (She dwelt in Jerusalem in the Second Quarter.) And they spoke with her." (NKJ)

Isaiah's wife was a prophetess.  Isaiah 8:3 "Then I went to the prophetess, and she conceived and bore a son. Then the LORD said to me, 'Call his name Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz;'"

Luke 2:36 "Now there was one, Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was of a great age, and had lived with a husband seven years from her virginity; "

It appears that prophesying was one ROLE that was recognized and allowed a woman.  Perhaps because the LORD made the choice, and not men.  The same would be true for "judging".  The LORD chose Deborah, and the men simply recognized the LORD's choice.

 

[8thdaypriest]

Concerning baptizing,  if a woman was imprisoned in a prison for women - THEN would it be acceptable for a woman to baptize another woman? 

[8thdaypriest]

It may be off topic here, but how much distinctive doctrine must a person accept, for that person to be baptized? 

This is the problem I ran into when searching for a pastor to baptize Hilda.  She cleaned house for me for a couple of years.  She began asking me questions about God, and progressed to some serious study.  Baptism was her idea.  She had only been sprinkled as a Catholic, and she wanted very much to be baptized. 

In my search I talked to several pastors.  Every one of them wanted Hilda to study into their distinctive doctrines, and to join their church though baptism.  She did not want to join their church.  She just wanted to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (as Peter said on the day of Pentecost).    And that was another problem, to be baptized only "in the name of Jesus".  I couldn't find anyone to do that - at least not within 50 miles of our small town.  Finally Hilda and my husband talked me into baptizing Hilda.  My husband set up a kiddie pool on the driveway, and with much prayer and thanksgiving Hilda was baptized into Christ.  I even found a baptismal certificate from CBD with those words "in the name of Jesus Christ". 

[JoeMo]

On 10/21/2017 at 10:39 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

  Finally Hilda and my husband talked me into baptizing Hilda.  My husband set up a kiddie pool on the driveway, and with much prayer and thanksgiving Hilda was baptized into Christ.  I even found a baptismal certificate from CBD with those words "in the name of Jesus Christ". 

Way to go Rachel!  You can get ministerial credentials at https://www.themonastery.org/landing/get-ordained?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjdza0JeH1wIVAxppCh0jgA_NEAAYASAAEgIlSPD_BwE.  

[8thdaypriest]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

Way to go Rachel!  You can get ministerial credentials at https://www.themonastery.org/landing/get-ordained?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjdza0JeH1wIVAxppCh0jgA_NEAAYASAAEgIlSPD_BwE.  

Joe, 

I have not considered getting  "ministerial credentials".  Klaus and I fund the ProphecyViewpoint website ($500) a month.  We cannot deduct any of that from taxable income, because ProphecyViewpoint is NOT set up as a 501C3.  We have not asked anyone to contribute.  We believe the LORD has blessed us very much, and so-far, we have not needed contributions.  We contribute to other ministries also which ARE 501C3s.

[JoeMo]

21 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I have not considered getting  "ministerial credentials". 

I was just messing with you.  YOU don't need ministerial credentials to minister to others; you have a direct spiritual gift for teaching and ministry.  That's credentials from God.

I did get my ministerial credentials because I officiated at my daughter's wedding; and other young people are considering asking me to officiate at their weddings.  It cost me all of $30.  Getting a degree from Andrews was considerably more expensive than that.

PS - they have no problems with women in the ministry.

[LifeHiscost]

On 10/21/2017 at 9:25 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

Concerning baptizing,  if a woman was imprisoned in a prison for women - THEN would it be acceptable for a woman to baptize another woman? 

Interesting thought. I would think God would accept any service done for Him by male or female that wasn't usurping another's specific calling.

God is Love!~Jesus saves!

[8thdaypriest]

21 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Joe, 

I have not considered getting  "ministerial credentials".  Klaus and I fund the ProphecyViewpoint website ($500) a month.  We cannot deduct any of that from taxable income, because ProphecyViewpoint is NOT set up as a 501C3.  We have not asked anyone to contribute.  We believe the LORD has blessed us very much, and so-far, we have not needed contributions.  We contribute to other ministries also which ARE 501C3s.

Wanderer asked why it cost so much.  The $500 is to advertise with google ads. 

[Gregory Matthews]

JoMo:  When I lived in Colorado any person who as over the age of 18, competent and a citizen of Colorado was authorized to perform weddings of people who had obtained a license to marry.

So, you did not need to spend $30 for a certificate.

NOTE:   In some States where I have lived, your $30 certificate would NOT have authorized you to do such.

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel:  Are you aware that in women's prisons, to include the female sections of prisons, there are male  guards.  It is considered a violation of anti-discrimination law to only staff female prisons with female  guards and male prisons and sections have  female guards for the same reason.

Have you not read of a male guard being prosecuted for having sex with a female prisoner?

 

 

[Gregory Matthews]

Rachel, you ask how much should a person know prior to being baptized.  This is a major and important question.  The general opinion in the SDA denomination has been that a person should know enough to become a congregational member.  In the past, people who did not adhere to this were "advised" to comply.  In the present  life of the SDA denomination people who do not comply with this generally are left alone.

My personal positon has generally been that congregational spiritual is an important part of one's spiritual life (See Hebrews).  Therefore,  I have refuse to baptize people who told me that they would not associate with a congregation.  Of course, if I were faced with a situation, such as a prisoner, who could not attend a local congregation, I would likely consider doing so.

 

[JoeMo]

6 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Lady Gaga, and Richard Branson, among others are currently "ordained."

So is Paul McCartney.

[8thdaypriest]

3 hours ago, Gregory Matthews said:

Rachel:  Are you aware that in women's prisons, to include the female sections of prisons, there are male  guards.  It is considered a violation of anti-discrimination law to only staff female prisons with female  guards and male prisons and sections have  female guards for the same reason.

Have you not read of a male guard being prosecuted for having sex with a female prisoner?

 

 

Yes Gregory.  I wasn't think of a politically correct USA prison.