whbae Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 The New Jerusalem will be populated by 144,000.00 plus those dies in Christ throughout the history of this world since the beginning of the earth. Think about it for a minute, how big is the New Jerusalem which will be located on this earth. It appears to me there aren't too many saved through each generation of this world of 6000 years! phkrause and stinsonmarri 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Kevin H Posted February 17, 2018 Moderators Share Posted February 17, 2018 Hard to answer using only original thoughts, there is an interesting quote (I'm sorry I forgot the page and even chapter) in Mrs. White's "Acts of the Apostles" that I heard read at a youth conference where it went ok, but when I got back to academy and read it there was quite an up roar among both students and faculty and I was told that either she was wrong, or that she must have been counting all the angels as well, that surely she was not talking about humans. Anyway, the 144,000 is a symbolic number, the tribes also represent different personalities. It simply means that these people have had an experience where they have held on to their love and trust in God despite all the chaos of earth going through the last seven steps of no longer being able to support life. They have followed the Bible when people give it up because they can no longer excuse away contradictions and massive copying. There will be a world wide economic cooperation to try to keep fragile life on earth going and it will appear successful, but everyone will find that to cooperate they will either need to give up some point of conscience, or that they will be tempted in using external control psychology to force others to give up some point of conscience. (Some how the idea of Sunday laws, whether they become a reality or not but will be involved with this among Christians, with other issues with the same principles for people of other groups.) Satan will impersonate Jesus and the demons will impersonate people in our quality world and encourage us to go along with the system. Everything inside of us will say that this is Jesus. The Bible will be found with the same issues that Canright found in Mrs. White's works, so why depend on these undependable works when we have Jesus, the Bible writers and even Mrs. White (who admit their errors and now has it all together) all encouraging us to give up those books, listen to them now and to go along with the system. Seeing our beloved parents and grand parents our senses will tell us that we are wrong to reject our loved ones, to cling to the Bible and to say "I'm sorry but Jesus is Satan" the 144000 are going to believe that they have rejected Jesus for the message of the Bible, but even thought they believe that they will face God's wrath for this, they still follow the message of scripture doing what is right because it is right. The number 144,000 is a number that indicates this experience. When John looks at them he sees that they are a vast mighty throng that no man can number. And so when we get to the end in the New Jerusalem and those outside the New Jerusalem; We find outside countless thousands vs. inside a vast mighty throng that no man can number. Thus to me it appears to be vast numbers in both places. Gail, GayatfootofCross and phkrause 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Glass half full or half empty....perspective. Gail and Kevin H 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulunruh Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 It's pretty big according to some calculations. The ESV and NIV versions say it is 12,000 stadia in length and width (Rev. 21:16), a stadia is 607 feet. That's something like 1,400 miles. However, the KJV and other versions say 12,000 furlongs, a furlong is about 660 feet. That makes it about 1,500 miles. Whether the city is 1,400 miles or 1,500 miles in length and width (a square base) we are looking at a city covering about 2 million square miles. (up to 2,250,000 square miles) The USA is 3.8 million square miles -- so the base of the city would occupy territory equivalent to more than half of the USA. But remember -- it's not just a square base -- it's at least 1,400 miles HIGH! . This reaches right out of the present Earth's atmosphere. Some question how the earth could maintain a proper rotation with a huge object on it protruding that far into space. If a present building were 1400, miles high, and one allows 12 feet per story, the building would be over 600,000 stories! Some think the city is in the shape of a pyramid, while others think it may be in the shape of a cube. I think a city that size would have room for a very large number of citizens! GayatfootofCross and 8thdaypriest 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Gregory Matthews Posted February 19, 2018 Moderators Share Posted February 19, 2018 I think that such talk is one reason why Christians are sometimes considered to be fools. phkrause and BlessedMan 2 Quote Gregory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Revelation chapter seven was given to answer the question asked at the end of chapter six: Who shall be able to stand at the Lord's return? The 144,000 has to be a symbolic number, referring to the character of those who will be able to stand at the Lord's return. After all, that number consists of 12,000 from each of the tribes of Israel. Since those tribes do not even exist today, virtually everyone agrees that these 12 sets of 12,000 have to be symbolic. So how can a number that consists of a combination of 12 symbolic numbers not also be symbolic? The great multitude mentioned later in the chapter is a literal presentation of the answer to the question who shall be able to stand at the Lord's return. 144,000 is symbolic; great multitude is literal. They are the SAME group! Kevin H and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Good enough ! GayatfootofCross and Gail 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 Billions n Billions will be there! Experiencing God's love for me has expanded from what man can not number (Rev 7:9) to.. a look at the Hubble Telescope (Gen 22:17) at just a sliver of the black sky! And our country homes/estates can be as large as counties! A world without seas can hold it And numerous Great Lakes can hold tons of aquatic life. God is infinite in love and housing capabilities. phkrause, BlessedMan, Kevin H and 1 other 4 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 My heart n mind soars when i think of HIM! Gail 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Whenever I lead Bible study groups, I try to be careful not to allow the conversation to digress into a discussion of the 144,000, since there are some people who ride this as a hobby horse and insist it is a literal number. Once--just once--I allowed someone to bring this up, and it destroyed the Bible study group. It was an elderly church member who brought it up. It certainly did not help the non-SDAs who were present! (Being 71 now, I guess I qualify as elderly. But just because one might be elderly, does not mean one has to be a fanatic, and refuse to listen to sound reason based on Scripture.) By the way, I am not sure what the real dimensions of the New Jerusalem will be. The measurements given in the prophecy may not mean what many think they do. The idea of the city being a cube 1400 miles high, does give me pause. 14 miles high would be more reasonable. Of course, the upper floors could be pressurized. Oh, and remember we have to leave space for the Garden of Eden to be the Central Park for the city! phkrause, Gail and Kevin H 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I suppose the New Jerusalem could be set inside a huge valley or crater, so it would not throw off the rotation of the planet. But there would still be a problem with air pressures in the various levels. It would be really useful if someone could show that the measurements given for the city in Revelation 21:16, 17 are somehow symbolic, and not literal. phkrause 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 I love talking of Heaven ...One of the things that my Partner noticed when I first started taking him to our church was we talk more of Heaven more than hell. Yes! So Gregory Mathews I had to read your statement a few times to come up with something lovely you might be really saying on this thread. Maybe you mean that weird things of the world baffles secular people? or my first thought.. the numbers that are quibbled over? Please set me straight. Gail and Kevin H 2 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 The idea of a literal number of 144,000 saved out of 7.6 billion? ..Is repugnant. The idea of a literal number of 144,000 to spread the 3 Angels message to 7.6 billion sounds daunting. So humour me for a moment .. lets go big! In the end time we will have a huge amount of people spreading the Message. We are not just talking of bible studies/seminars and passing out books. We are talking about people who God finally won our hearts for Him. Moved by this Wondrous Love! Smitten/Enamored/Dazzled! God has been courting you for quite sometime and we said Yes! Do you folks fully know what that does to you? The human heart gets abundance of? God pours His Holy Spirit into you and you become little Christs reaching people in your life. God's meek and lowly Spirit will be noticed. The love expressed in your eyes. The sacrificial nature of your spirit and actions for others will be seen. People will see the difference. The humility. They will see no judgement or condemnation. You know how attractive that will be? People will want to be around you. You could even be invited to Sinner's homes and people will hang on your every word. They see that they are included to God's ever widening Family. The Gospel..The Good News will have skin on it. Miracles and healings are promised also. Even more things than Jesus did ..cause there will be so many He is living in and working thru! Before Jesus comes this will happen All will be attracted. The world is crying out to be loved. This why I say Billions. One third of the population says Yes to God in the last days? I don't know. People will reject Him yes. But o so many will be won over by your life/message! Thousands were converted in one day once upon a time. Gail 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoAspen Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 There will be room for all that choose to be there! Really, very simple! God has no limits, only humans attempt to limit!! phkrause, GayatfootofCross, Gail and 1 other 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whbae Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 I think, if I understand correctly, the new Jerusalem will be come down to the old Jerusalem. Am I wrong? No matter where it comes down, our earth has so much space! Gail 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 The New Earth, we are told, will have no seas, only a few large lakes. Since the surface of the earth presently is 4/5 water, and the extreme latitudes are hardly habitable, with inhospitable mountains and deserts all over--and we still have a human population close to eight billion--there clearly will be room for a great many people in the New Earth. God could always make the planet even bigger if He wanted, reducing the size of the super dense iron core to preserve the same gravity. phkrause and GayatfootofCross 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 Jesus alluded to a small number who would be saved in discussing the broad and narrow way. Don't forget the situation at the time of the flood. Some estimate millions of people could have been on the earth, yet only eight people could be bothered to go into the ark. GayatfootofCross 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 6 hours ago, B/W Photodude said: o dear! So all the stars in the sky promise to Abraham and numberless multitude from every nation etc showcased was just about the thousands of generations who lived and died before the generation who see Jesus coming alive? Not pertaining to the world being lit with the 3 Angels Message at all? B/W Photodude, I appreciate your input. My little country church I grew up in romanced us as a lil band huddled in the cave together waiting for Jesus to come. ( ..and *Joyce will do the cooking) I hear you about the flood and what not. Dismal I grew up thinking small numbers. As a child I had the gut feeling they were gloating. Cause my home didn't think that way. Now, Seeing Gods love for me and others has broadened my picture. The power of the Latter Rain perfects our character of love and,of course.would be lovely and alluring to the people all around. These are the things that capture my imagination. God is Mighty to save. *I heard an Elder say that about a dear lady during this discussion(among so many) Gail 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 If you click on this you get a website of a bit of the sky(Andromeda Galaxy) then find a lil dot with the mouse and zoom in controls on the bottom. Wow God! There are possibly Millions if not Billions of Galaxies! https://www.spacetelescope.org/images/heic1502a/zoomable/ Kevin H 1 Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 The more I read, the more I discover the exceedingly sinfulness of disobedience to God. True, Abraham was told his descendants (those saved or his literal blood descendants) would be as the stars of heaven. But it is estimated that 100,000,000,000 people have lived on the earth at one time or another. Even at the very worst of only one million saved, that would still be much larger than the number of stars in the heavens as only about 3000 stars, it is said, can be seen. So, while the number saved is comparatively small, those who want to be saved will be saved. The rest do not. Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 hours ago, GayatfootofCross said: There are possibly Millions if not Billions of Galaxies! Thanks to the Hubble telescope, I have now read figures like 1 trillion galaxies. Gail and GayatfootofCross 1 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Lambert Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 I theorize that God has only barely begun to fill the universe with intelligent life. He will resume this work after the problem of sin has been fully dealt with, and we will be privileged to participate with Him in this work--since we share Christ's throne, and He shares His Father's throne. (See Rev. 3:21.) GayatfootofCross 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted February 21, 2018 Share Posted February 21, 2018 5 hours ago, B/W Photodude said: Interesting thoughts. 3,000 ! What Abraham can see with the naked eye. It seems like that promise was very small. But again to go with your thoughts ..we knowing his story ..He couldn't even have one. So it would seem plenty to him. thanku for saying Trillions of Galaxies! My heart just got bigger! That's the nice estimate of 100 Billion! Maybe I am onto something B/W Photdude. God has won your heart, I imagine. We are just ordinary people seeing an extraordinary God. [looks side to side] ..psst ..we are not the only ones! Grace and peace and joy spills over everyone we touch. I pray.. God help us All! Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Keep in mind that that is only from the part of the universe that we can see. Supposedly the edges of the universe are about 14.5 billion light years away. No one knows how big the "real" universe is. Notice how this earth gets put at the center of the universe?! GayatfootofCross 1 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeMo Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Think about it - from earth, we can only "see" 13.5 billion light-years away; no matter what direction we look. If we were anyplace else in the universe, we could only "see" 13.5 billion light years away, no matter which direction we look. In a sense no matter where you are in the universe, you are at the center, because you can only "see" for a distance of 13.5 billion light years. Light from 14 billion light years away hasn't reached us yet. Just my philosophical quantum opinion - I might be wrong. CoAspen 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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