Disciple of YHWH Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 The Lord God Yahweh is one Lord, not three. Eph 4:4-6 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Deut 6:4 4 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: Isa 44:24,6,8 24 Thus saith the Lord, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the Lord that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. James 2:19 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 1 Corinthians 8:6 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Yahshua is the Lord God Yahweh. The holy spirit of Y.H.W.H the one true God says, Yahshua the Christ is the Son of God. Luke 3:22 22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. Matthew 3:16-17 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Also the Apostle Peter called Christ Yahshua the Son of God in, Matt 16:16 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. Thomas called Christ Lord and God in, John 20:28 28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Yahshua called himself God in, John 8:58 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 10:29-30, 36-38 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. John 17:11, 21-22 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: Yahweh says Yahshua is his son and calls Yahshua God. Hebrews 1:2-8 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high: 4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him. 7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Yahshua says that the father dwelleth in him, and that he and the Father are one. John 14:9-11 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Yahshua is the Image and the fulness of the Godhead(Yahweh) bodily. Collosians 1:14-15 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Collosians 2:8-9 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. Romans 8:29 29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Yahweh says a son will be born, and that sons name will be God with us, the Mighty God, and the everlasting Father. Matt 1:22-23 22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, 23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. Isaiah 9:6-7 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this. John 5:43 43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. The Lord God Yahweh is the Father(Yahweh) The son(Yahshua) and the holy spirit. And he is one(The Father, Yahweh). 2 Corinthians 3:13-17 13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: 14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. 15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. 16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away. 17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. John 15:26 26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: Phillipians 2:5-12 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. 12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 1 Timothy 3:16 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. john 1:1,14 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Gal 3:20 20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. 1 Timothy 2:3-5 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 1 John 5:7-8 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 Corinthians 8:6 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. Eph 4:4-6 4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. There is not a trinity, the Lord God is One not three. The son Yahshua is the Father Yahweh as the son. The Holy spirit is the Spirit of the Father Yahweh as the Holy spirit. And the Father Yahweh is the Father Yahweh. All three exist at the same time and all three are the Father Yahweh. There are different administrations that perform different operations but it is the same God Yahweh(the Father) that worketh in all. Great is the Mystery of Godliness. On earth water is the best example we have to try and explain the mystery of Godliness. Water can exist in three forms liquid solid and gas, but in all three forms it is still water. So to is the Lord God the father the son and holy spirit in all three forms he is still one God(Yahweh) not three separate beings. This is in no way a perfect example and does not fully explain the mystery of Godliness, it is only the best example we have in nature. The Trinity is a Satanic doctrine that comes not from the bible but from False teachings given at the council of Nicaea. The first Christians had the fullness of the Gospel delivered unto them by the Holy spirit and by the Apostles. The Trinity is not found any place in the bible, only the belief and fact that there is only One God. Even the devils believe there is only One God(James 2:19) and Tremble. Declared all the counsel of God(Acts 20:26-28) Be mindful of the words spoken by the prophets and the commandments of the Apostles and Christ(2 Peter 3:1-2, 15-18) Keep the sound words given by Paul(1 Timohty 1:13-14) Fully known the Doctrine, continue in things learned(2 Tim 3:10, 14-15) Laws of God (Rom 13:2,9-10) Stablish according to the Gospel and preaching of Christ(Romans 16:25-27) Fully preached the Gospel of Christ(Romans 15:19,29) Acknowledge things spoken as commandments of the Lord(1 Cor 14:37) Gospel received by Revelation of Christ(Gal 1:6-12) Christ the same today yesterday and tomorrow, so to is the word of God the same. (Hebrews 13:8-9) Keep the Commandments given by Christ(John 14:21,23, Matt 28:20) Holy word of God is of no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20-21) They did not believe in the Trinity since it wasn't even a thought until more than 60-90 years after Paul's death and even then it was only supported by sects of people that had strayed from the True Christian faith/Doctrine and was only a partial form of the trinity doctrine introduced by the Catholics. The Trinity was not supported by more than a minority of People(claiming to be Christians) until the Council of Nicaea when Constantine gave it his support 325 Ad. Then in 384 ad it came to the Final form most know it as today. The trinity is not supported by Scripture, by the Apostles, or by the Words of Christ. It is a False doctrine introduced by Ministers of Satan. If you disagree do not simply provide Lip service saying "your wrong" or "no proof here" but prove all things by the word of God alone. 1 Thess 5:21 21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. 2 timothy 3:16-17 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works. 2 timothy 4:1-2, 5 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. May the Truth and light of the Lord God Yahshua the Christ Guide you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Greetings Disciple of Yahweh, On 6/2/2018 at 4:00 PM, Disciple of YHWH said: There is not a trinity, the Lord God is One not three. The son Yahshua is the Father Yahweh as the son. The Holy spirit is the Spirit of the Father Yahweh as the Holy spirit. And the Father Yahweh is the Father Yahweh. All three exist at the same time and all three are the Father Yahweh. There are different administrations that perform different operations but it is the same God Yahweh(the Father) that worketh in all. Great is the Mystery of Godliness. Is what you have stated above and in your whole thread, a form of Oneness Pentecostalism? I could respond to all that you have posted, but we most probably agree in some passages above. I do not agree with the Trinity, but I believe that there is one God the Father, and I believe that our Lord is the Son of God. I believe that Jesus was born a human with God the Father as his father and Mary his mother Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:35, John 1:14, 3:16. Thus I can agree in part with your title "There is no Trinity", but I believe that there is one God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of YHWH Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 18 minutes ago, TrevorL said: Greetings Disciple of Yahweh, Is what you have stated above and in your whole thread, a form of Oneness Pentecostalism? I could respond to all that you have posted, but we most probably agree in some passages above. I do not agree with the Trinity, but I believe that there is one God the Father, and I believe that our Lord is the Son of God. I believe that Jesus was born a human with God the Father as his father and Mary his mother Matthew 1:20-21, Luke 1:35, John 1:14, 3:16. Thus I can agree in part with your title "There is no Trinity", but I believe that there is one God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Kind regards Trevor Well brother, there are many differences between the doctrine I presented and Oneness Pentecostalism(even just from what I have read so far) though it is hard to understand a lot of what they are trying say is God's Nature. For instance I read that they believe that Christ is not subordinate(from what I can tell) to Yahweh. Which is true in part. Christ is Yahweh as the Son Yahshua(different administration) his power obviously comes from the Father Yahweh(since he is Yahweh only in a different Administration) but Christ puts himself into the Position of Servant, thus becoming servant/subordinate to the Father Yahweh. Great is the Mystery of Godliness brother, I can only scratch the surface of God's Nature in that they are all one God Yahweh in different administrations performing different operations. Scripture I know is Clear about that much. If I'm reading what you believe correctly(you can correct me if I'm wrong) you believe: 1. Christ is just the son of God, not God himself? 2. That Yahweh and Mary conceived him and he became Flesh? Am I getting that right brother, if I am wrong I apologize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, 5 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: If I'm reading what you believe correctly(you can correct me if I'm wrong) you believe: 1. Christ is just the son of God, not God himself? More or less, yes. There is only one God, Yahweh, God the Father. Jesus is a distinct being, the Son of God by birth, also he is the Son of God because of his moral character, he was full of grace and truth, and he was the Son of God in a greater sense when God raised him from the dead and gave him immortality and all power in heaven and earth. 5 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: 2. That Yahweh and Mary conceived him and he became Flesh? Yes, I do not believe that Jesus existed before he was conceived and born. The child born was a human, the son of Mary and with God the Father as his father. He was and still is a man not a God-man. He has now been glorified and is now seated at the right hand of God Psalm 110:1 and this shows his distinction from God the Father. Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B/W Photodude Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 2 hours ago, TrevorL said: Yes, I do not believe that Jesus existed before he was conceived and born. Probably Jesus was just kidding when He told the rabbis that before Abraham was "I am". He said the same to Moses. The rabbis took offense and try to injure Him over this one. But why take the rabbis serious anyway?! JoeMo, GayatfootofCross and phkrause 3 Quote >>>Texts in blue type are quotes<<< ***************************************************************************** And therefore as a stranger give it welcome. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy. --Shakespeare from Hamlet ***************************************************************************** Bill Liversidge Seminars The Emergent Church and the Invasion of Spiritualism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 4 hours ago, TrevorL said: Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, More or less, yes. There is only one God, Yahweh, God the Father. Jesus is a distinct being, the Son of God by birth, also he is the Son of God because of his moral character, he was full of grace and truth, and he was the Son of God in a greater sense when God raised him from the dead and gave him immortality and all power in heaven and earth. Yes, I do not believe that Jesus existed before he was conceived and born. The child born was a human, the son of Mary and with God the Father as his father. He was and still is a man not a God-man. He has now been glorified and is now seated at the right hand of God Psalm 110:1 and this shows his distinction from God the Father. Kind regards Trevor "Indeed, God did not SEND His Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world MIGHT BE SAVED through him". John 3,17 The Son was already the Son & the Father was already the Father prior to the Son being "sent" into the world. What you are espousing is simply the creature Christ doctrine of the early Seventh Day Adventists - essentially making Christ a Gollum that was powered by "on loan power" from the Father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 Greetings B/W Photodude and Gustave, 6 hours ago, B/W Photodude said: Probably Jesus was just kidding when He told the rabbis that before Abraham was "I am". He said the same to Moses. The rabbis took offense and try to injure Him over this one. But why take the rabbis serious anyway?! The same term “I Am” is found in John 8:24,28 and is translated as “I am he”. In all three occasions this is not quoting Exodus 3:14. Exodus 3:14 (KJV) “I AM” would be better translated as “I will be” as per Tyndale and the RV and RSV margins. 4 hours ago, Gustave said: "Indeed, God did not SEND His Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world MIGHT BE SAVED through him". John 3,17 The Son was already the Son & the Father was already the Father prior to the Son being "sent" into the world. Jesus was sent into the world at the beginning of his ministry when he was 30, not at the age of 2, 12 or before he was born. Please note how the word "world" is used by Jesus in John 17. Compare how Isaiah was sent in Isaiah 6:8-10 and his message which is a framework or anticipation of Jesus being sent and his message. 4 hours ago, Gustave said: What you are espousing is simply the creature Christ doctrine of the early Seventh Day Adventists - essentially making Christ a Gollum that was powered by "on loan power" from the Father. This is an interesting assessment and expression, but it ignores who Jesus actually was, a human but with fullness of character, the Son of God, full of grace and truth. By making him a Deity, most people completely override and replace his humanity, his need to learn, his prayers and his sufferings, and his remarkable teaching and humility, even though they are forced to say he had two natures, without being able to grasp how this is in any way feasible. Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 TrevorL, Hebrews 1,2 says that "The Son" existed prior to the world being created. "By whom He also made the world". 1st John 3,8 says that the Son "appeared". "For this purpose, the Son of God appeared, that he might destroy the works of the devil". & of course John 1, 1 which explicitly states; "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God & the word WAS God". It's in the context of THAT we read Verse 14; "And the Word WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us (and we saw His Glory, the glory as it were the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth" God became man WITHOUT ceasing to be God - that is the historic Christian Faith. Have you read what Jesus told Mary and Joseph after they caught up with Him in the temple? Who's business, at that early age, did Jesus say He was attending to? The early SDA's taught a Gollum Christ, one that ONLY had power on loan from the real God, sort of like a Drivers License. Along with this unfortunate teaching comes the peccability of Christ doctrine which was also taught with great velocity by the early SDA's, just as it had been taught by Arius the heretic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of YHWH Posted June 4, 2018 Author Share Posted June 4, 2018 18 hours ago, TrevorL said: Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, More or less, yes. There is only one God, Yahweh, God the Father. Jesus is a distinct being, the Son of God by birth, also he is the Son of God because of his moral character, he was full of grace and truth, and he was the Son of God in a greater sense when God raised him from the dead and gave him immortality and all power in heaven and earth. Yes, I do not believe that Jesus existed before he was conceived and born. The child born was a human, the son of Mary and with God the Father as his father. He was and still is a man not a God-man. He has now been glorified and is now seated at the right hand of God Psalm 110:1 and this shows his distinction from God the Father. Kind regards Trevor 9 hours ago, TrevorL said: Greetings B/W Photodude and Gustave, The same term “I Am” is found in John 8:24,28 and is translated as “I am he”. In all three occasions this is not quoting Exodus 3:14. Exodus 3:14 (KJV) “I AM” would be better translated as “I will be” as per Tyndale and the RV and RSV margins. Jesus was sent into the world at the beginning of his ministry when he was 30, not at the age of 2, 12 or before he was born. Please note how the word "world" is used by Jesus in John 17. Compare how Isaiah was sent in Isaiah 6:8-10 and his message which is a framework or anticipation of Jesus being sent and his message. This is an interesting assessment and expression, but it ignores who Jesus actually was, a human but with fullness of character, the Son of God, full of grace and truth. By making him a Deity, most people completely override and replace his humanity, his need to learn, his prayers and his sufferings, and his remarkable teaching and humility, even though they are forced to say he had two natures, without being able to grasp how this is in any way feasible. Kind regards Trevor Hello brother, I have a few questions for you, I hope you don't mind. 1. Is Christ in the Flesh at this very moment in heaven? 2. Why does Christ say that he will raise himself from the grave? John 2:19-21; John 10:17-18 3. Follow up to number 2: If Christ did not raise himself, but Yahweh did. Then why was he given the power/ability to raise himself? John 2:19-21; John 10:17-18 4. Lastly and I hope I'm not pressuring you, what denomination do you belong to? Seventh day Adventist? Just curious is all, you don't have to answer if you don't want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, 4 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: 1. Is Christ in the Flesh at this very moment in heaven? That question seems ambiguous. I believe that after his resurrection Jesus was glorified, Jesus the Son of God now sits at the right hand of God, but he is still a man. Perhaps we could use the term glorified flesh, as he has been changed from mortality to immortality. Acts 2:22–24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. 4 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: 2. Why does Christ say that he will raise himself from the grave? John 2:19-21; John 10:17-18 3. Follow up to number 2: If Christ did not raise himself, but Yahweh did. Then why was he given the power/ability to raise himself? John 2:19-21; John 10:17-18 You will need to balance this against Acts 2:22-24 above and the following: Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. No but I have worked in the Coorangbong area in NSW Australia, and this is a large SDA centre. EGW lived there for some time. I have attended parts of the SDA Seminar on Daniel and completed The Prophecy Code correspondence course. Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 11 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: Hello brother, I have a few questions for you, I hope you don't mind. 1. Is Christ in the Flesh at this very moment in heaven? 2. Why does Christ say that he will raise himself from the grave? John 2:19-21; John 10:17-18 3. Follow up to number 2: If Christ did not raise himself, but Yahweh did. Then why was he given the power/ability to raise himself? John 2:19-21; John 10:17-18 4. Lastly and I hope I'm not pressuring you, what denomination do you belong to? Seventh day Adventist? Just curious is all, you don't have to answer if you don't want to. 1... Christ, at & since the Resurrection, has a "glorified body", it's the same body since the Incarnation only 'glorified' ( eternal ). 2... To be "according to the Scriptures" - Luke 18, 31-33. 3... Everything done is a work of the Trinity, God the Father eternally generates the Son, one Person of the Trinity doesn't now or ever go rogue. 4...Latin Rite Catholic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of YHWH Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 17 hours ago, TrevorL said: Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, That question seems ambiguous. I believe that after his resurrection Jesus was glorified, Jesus the Son of God now sits at the right hand of God, but he is still a man. Perhaps we could use the term glorified flesh, as he has been changed from mortality to immortality. Acts 2:22–24 (KJV): 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. You will need to balance this against Acts 2:22-24 above and the following: Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. No but I have worked in the Coorangbong area in NSW Australia, and this is a large SDA centre. EGW lived there for some time. I have attended parts of the SDA Seminar on Daniel and completed The Prophecy Code correspondence course. Kind regards Trevor 1. Sorry if wasn't clear brother. I mean, did he ascended in a body made of Flesh and blood(the kind he lived his live on earth in) or did he ascend in a Spiritual body? Which of these two is the Glorified body? If neither is correct brother could you explain what the glorified body is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of YHWH Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Gustave said: 1... Christ, at & since the Resurrection, has a "glorified body", it's the same body since the Incarnation only 'glorified' ( eternal ). 2... To be "according to the Scriptures" - Luke 18, 31-33. 3... Everything done is a work of the Trinity, God the Father eternally generates the Son, one Person of the Trinity doesn't now or ever go rogue. 4...Latin Rite Catholic. 1. So you Believe it is a body of Flesh and Blood? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, 5 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: Sorry if wasn't clear brother. I mean, did he ascended in a body made of Flesh and blood(the kind he lived his live on earth in) or did he ascend in a Spiritual body? Which of these two is the Glorified body? If neither is correct brother could you explain what the glorified body is? I believe that after three days, Jesus was raised from the dead. This was a restoration to life of the same body that had died. At some time after this, before he ascended to heaven Acts 1:11, his body was changed from mortality to immortality. My personal belief is that this was shortly after appearing to Mary Magdelene in John 20:14-17. When Jesus returns the faithful will also be changed from mortality to immortality 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, Philippians 3:20-21. This is not replacing our previous bodies with a different body, but a change from flesh and blood bodies to a spiritual body, a substantial physical body that does not need food and air to survive. A spiritual body is not ethereal but an external observer may not notice any difference between the original body and the glorified body. Jesus is still a man: Acts 17:30–31 (KJV): 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gustave Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: 1. So you Believe it is a body of Flesh and Blood? God the Son, has had flesh since His Incarnation, flesh that is now glorified. I don't know the specifics of the resurrection body ( if blood is pumping through it ). The New Testament accounts of Jesus after His Resurrection doesn't mention blood pouring out of the hole in Jesus' side. Jesus being God can do whatever He does. I reject the early SDA idea of God the Father being made of flesh, having a rectum & actual nostrils to sniff and enjoy the sacrifice such as the SDA's used to teach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of YHWH Posted June 6, 2018 Author Share Posted June 6, 2018 22 hours ago, TrevorL said: Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, I believe that after three days, Jesus was raised from the dead. This was a restoration to life of the same body that had died. At some time after this, before he ascended to heaven Acts 1:11, his body was changed from mortality to immortality. My personal belief is that this was shortly after appearing to Mary Magdelene in John 20:14-17. When Jesus returns the faithful will also be changed from mortality to immortality 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, Philippians 3:20-21. This is not replacing our previous bodies with a different body, but a change from flesh and blood bodies to a spiritual body, a substantial physical body that does not need food and air to survive. A spiritual body is not ethereal but an external observer may not notice any difference between the original body and the glorified body. Jesus is still a man: Acts 17:30–31 (KJV): 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead. Kind regards Trevor Interesting view point brother. So if I have read your belief correctly, you believe. 1. It is the same body he lived in that was resurrected in. 2. When he ascended he attainted a Glorified/spiritual body that looks no different than ours. 3. That when Christ returns we will all receive a body similar to his, Immortal/spiritual but visibly no different. 4. In these bodies we will not need to eat drink or breathe to survive. Am I understanding your beliefs correctly brother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, 2 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: 1. It is the same body he lived in that was resurrected in. I do not want to seem to be too precise, or over pedantic, but I will qualify what I believe on each item. You use the term “lived in”. Unlike many Protestants, SDAs and myself do not believe in immortal souls living in a body. I believe that the body and mind are all part of the man. When the body dies the thinking process ceases. We do not live in our bodies, we are our bodies. Maybe even SDAs see Jesus differently because they hold to the concept that Jesus had two natures and they believe in the incarnation. This is a remnant of Platoism. This is where I disagree with Trinitarians, as I believe that Jesus was born a human being, but nevertheless the Son of God, because God was his father, and Mary his mother in the conception / birth process. 2 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: 2. When he ascended he attainted a Glorified/spiritual body that looks no different than ours. I believe that the glorified body is like when Jesus appeared in the Transfiguration. Nevertheless I believe that Jesus was able to suppress his glory so that he appeared as a normal man, just like the angels that appeared did not on some occasions readily reveal their glory. Hebrews 13:2 (KJV): Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. I believe that he was changed soon after appearing to Mary Magdelene, some forty days before his ascension in Acts 1:10. When his glory is withheld, then he would appear as a man. There may be some differences, but not really obvious. 2 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: 3. That when Christ returns we will all receive a body similar to his, Immortal/spiritual but visibly no different. We don’t receive a body, our present body will be changed, not replaced. We are not an immortal soul moving from one body to another. Philippians 3:20-21 (KJV): 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. 1 John 3:1-3 (KJV): 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. 2 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: 4. In these bodies we will not need to eat drink or breathe to survive. I agree here with this assessment. A spiritual body is empowered by the Spirit of God, not food and oxygen. Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of YHWH Posted June 9, 2018 Author Share Posted June 9, 2018 On 6/6/2018 at 7:45 AM, TrevorL said: Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, I do not want to seem to be too precise, or over pedantic, but I will qualify what I believe on each item. You use the term “lived in”. Unlike many Protestants, SDAs and myself do not believe in immortal souls living in a body. I believe that the body and mind are all part of the man. When the body dies the thinking process ceases. We do not live in our bodies, we are our bodies. Maybe even SDAs see Jesus differently because they hold to the concept that Jesus had two natures and they believe in the incarnation. This is a remnant of Platoism. This is where I disagree with Trinitarians, as I believe that Jesus was born a human being, but nevertheless the Son of God, because God was his father, and Mary his mother in the conception / birth process. I believe that the glorified body is like when Jesus appeared in the Transfiguration. Nevertheless I believe that Jesus was able to suppress his glory so that he appeared as a normal man, just like the angels that appeared did not on some occasions readily reveal their glory. Hebrews 13:2 (KJV): Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares. I believe that he was changed soon after appearing to Mary Magdelene, some forty days before his ascension in Acts 1:10. When his glory is withheld, then he would appear as a man. There may be some differences, but not really obvious. We don’t receive a body, our present body will be changed, not replaced. We are not an immortal soul moving from one body to another. Philippians 3:20-21 (KJV): 20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: 21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. 1 John 3:1-3 (KJV): 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. I agree here with this assessment. A spiritual body is empowered by the Spirit of God, not food and oxygen. Kind regards Trevor Brother Trevor, While I do not agree with your beliefs on number 1 and 3, though I know that this can become a very long subject to discuss. So I will happily enter into the discussion with you only if you wish to discuss it in depth with me. I partially agree with your opinion/Assessment of the second point. I agree that Christ suppressed his Glory(Father's Glory), though I believe that he was and has always been so therefore he had to suppress his glory(father's Glory as they are one) since conception in the flesh. As to appearing to Mary I believe he was in the spirit when he appeared unto her that is one of the reasons why he would not let her touch him John 20:17, and that he ascended in the spirit both times, in the morning, then again at his final ascension. I believe after the first time ascending, he became flesh again(once he was back on earth) when Thomas and the apostles were there so they would not doubt that he had truly returned. And I agree with number 4 the spiritual body not needing food, oxygen or drink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorL Posted June 9, 2018 Share Posted June 9, 2018 Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, 6 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: While I do not agree with your beliefs on number 1 and 3, though I know that this can become a very long subject to discuss. So I will happily enter into the discussion with you only if you wish to discuss it in depth with me. I will defer on this at the moment and only make brief comments on part 2. 6 hours ago, Disciple of YHWH said: I partially agree with your opinion/Assessment of the second point. I agree that Christ suppressed his Glory(Father's Glory), though I believe that he was and has always been so therefore he had to suppress his glory(father's Glory as they are one) since conception in the flesh. As to appearing to Mary I believe he was in the spirit when he appeared unto her that is one of the reasons why he would not let her touch him John 20:17, and that he ascended in the spirit both times, in the morning, then again at his final ascension. I believe after the first time ascending, he became flesh again(once he was back on earth) when Thomas and the apostles were there so they would not doubt that he had truly returned. I cannot agree with your concept of swapping back and forth between spirit and flesh. Why I mentioned the transfiguration, is that this is used by Peter to speak about what Jesus will be like at his return: 2 Peter 1:16-18 (KJV):16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. I am not sure what your impression is of a Spirit body, but my view is that Peter, James and John could see the majesty of Jesus as stated above. And note, the glory of God the Father is called the excellent glory, in other words God the Father’s glory is greater than the glory of Jesus. Jesus did not suppress his glory during his ministry, because his glory was a moral not physical glory, he was full of grace and truth, and John beheld his glory John 1:14. Kind regards Trevor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of YHWH Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 13 hours ago, TrevorL said: Greetings again Disciple of YHWH, I will defer on this at the moment and only make brief comments on part 2. I cannot agree with your concept of swapping back and forth between spirit and flesh. Why I mentioned the transfiguration, is that this is used by Peter to speak about what Jesus will be like at his return: 2 Peter 1:16-18 (KJV):16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. I am not sure what your impression is of a Spirit body, but my view is that Peter, James and John could see the majesty of Jesus as stated above. And note, the glory of God the Father is called the excellent glory, in other words God the Father’s glory is greater than the glory of Jesus. Jesus did not suppress his glory during his ministry, because his glory was a moral not physical glory, he was full of grace and truth, and John beheld his glory John 1:14. Kind regards Trevor Brother, That's right brother, he received Honor and Glory from the Father. But he is Yahweh manifest in the flesh as the son Yahshua, as they are one and the same just a different administration. 17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, Yes brother they were eyewitnesses of his majesty, they saw him ascend to the right hand of the Father, and they saw all the wonders he had done while on earth. And we know that when he appeared to Paul in the Spirit his glory was great enough to blind those who saw him. Acts 9:3-6, Acts 22:6-10, Acts 26:14-18 At Christ's return, in the flesh, his glory is such that it destroys everything in this universe by fire, the earth, and the first two parts of Heaven are completely destroyed by fire.(Matt 25:31-36;Matthew 24:29-31; Micha 1:3-4; Isaiah 66:15-17, 26:21, 2:9-22; Zephaniah 1:18,2:2,3:8,1:2-3; Haggi 2:6-7; Malichi 4:1; Joel 2:10,31; Hosea 10:8; 1 Thess 1:7-9; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 6:12-17; Revelation 20:9) Yes brother, those who had eyes to see saw Christ's glory, not just the Moral Glory but his Physical Glory to some degree(the Glory that came from the father). 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. But not everyone who looked upon him saw that he was the son of the Father, so we know that it was only visible to those who had eyes to see and ears to hear otherwise all who looked upon him would've believed. Even the Apostles doubted it was Christ that was speaking to them when he returned to them. Matthew 28:17 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. But when Christ appeared unto Paul in the spirit there was no doubt who it was, Paul's first thought was that it was the Lord. And when Christ said he was the Lord Paul did not doubt. Acts 9:3-6 3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. But when Christ returns in the Flesh no man will deny it is he. He will return in all glory, and those who denied him in this life will wail and tremble. Matt 28:31 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: Revelation 1:7 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8thdaypriest Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 Though I personally do NOT believe that the Holy Spirit is a third divine being, in addition to God the Father and Christ His Son, I have not posted into this thread before, BECAUSE your views are so different from mine, concerning all the requirements you list for salvation, that I did not want folks to think I agree with you. phkrause 1 Quote 8thdaypriest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of YHWH Posted June 10, 2018 Author Share Posted June 10, 2018 6 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said: Though I personally do NOT believe that the Holy Spirit is a third divine being, in addition to God the Father and Christ His Son, I have not posted into this thread before, BECAUSE your views are so different from mine, concerning all the requirements you list for salvation, that I did not want folks to think I agree with you. I understand brother, but trust me when I say. Posting here showing why you disagree with me, would only show your opposition to my beliefs. Not support for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GayatfootofCross Posted June 10, 2018 Share Posted June 10, 2018 I think if Disciple of YHWH posts another three or four related threads (and given his name) I think I might finally see what others see when i first got here I see my one trick pony @aka I publicly apologize Adventi @Stan And Club. Really I do. No offense Disciple of YHWH # it's a long story Quote For all Eternity God waited in anticipation for You to show up to give You a Message - YOUR INCLUDED !!! { a merry dance }?️? " If you tarry 'til you're better You will never come at all " .. "I Will Rise" by the late great saved Glen Campbell If your picture of God is starting to feel too good to be true, you're starting to move in the right direction. "My bounty is as boundless as the sea, My love as deep; the more I give to thee, The more I have, for both are infinite." Romeo and Juliet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members phkrause Posted June 13, 2018 Members Share Posted June 13, 2018 On 6/10/2018 at 4:22 AM, Disciple of YHWH said: I understand brother, but trust me when I say. Posting here showing why you disagree with me, would only show your opposition to my beliefs. Not support for them. I believe that's what she is trying to tell you?? Quote phkrause By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near. {5T 451.1} Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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