Has Babylon fallen, has fallen, yet?

[stinsonmarri]

1 hour ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I've posted this before, but will again here.

There were no "candles" in the wilderness Tabernacle.  There was a lamp-stand, with small oil lamps at the top end of each "branching" arm.   The lamp-stand had six branching arms, 3 on each side, and one central post, also with a lamp at the end. 

The first press, extra fine, olive oil that was used to fill each lamp - that oil represented the Spirit, which "fills" us.  The lamps were the vehicle for the oil. 

Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Revelation 11, describes conditions at the very end of this age.  The Beast (His head recovered from the deadly wound) will rule the globe, and will persecute the people of God. 

Revelation 11:4 [The Two Witnesses]  They are "the two olive trees" and the two lampstands, and "they stand before the Lord of the earth."

The word translated as "trees" (olive trees) can also be translated as "olive branches". 

If you recall, the Israel of God was depicted as an "olive tree" (Romans Cpt 11, Jer. 11:16).  Branches were broken off, and branches were grafted in.  The last two branches left on the tree, will be the "two witnesses" during the prophesied 1260 days. 

Revelation 1:20  "The seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches". 

Starting with 7 Churches (7 lampstands),  5 are "removed" because they fail to repent. 

Rev. 2:5  [Spoken to Ephesus]  "repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place" .

7 minus 5 = 2.  2 Lampstands left standing before the Lord in the Heavenly Tabernacle, and 2 branches left attached to the Olive Tree. 

As to the DEATH of the "Two Witnesses" : 

1.  They are witnessing for Christ and for His Gospel. 

2.  They can witness because they are filled with the Holy Spirit.     Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." 

3.  The Beast will execute them, or will at least make it a death penalty offense to witness for the truth as it is in Jesus. 

This FITS with Daniel 12:7. 

Daniel 12:7 "Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished."

Seems the only way to shut the last Witnesses up, is to kill them. 

The Two Witnesses are compared with Elijah and Moses, because they preach the Elijah message - "Choose ye this day, whom you will serve", and the Moses message, "Remember the Law of the LORD, to keep it". 

 

It is sad to me when people do not read the Bible or what I said. I never said candles, I said candlesticks! "If you notice in Rev 11:4 two Candlestick and two Olive Trees, these both represent THE HOLY SPIRIT"

And thou shalt make a candlestick of pure gold: of beaten work shall the candlestick be made: his shaft, and his branches, his bowls, his knops, and his flowers, shall be of the same. Ex 25:31 

And said unto me, what seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: 

Then answered I, and said unto him, what are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? Zec 4: 2,11

And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;   Rev 1:12 

Now I chose to use the KJV version of the Bible and yes there are several versions who says lampstands instead. Strong Hebrew and Greek Dictionary says there are lampstands when translated. I truly did not think this would make a difference. They had to be lit by fire but Revelation 11:4 complements Zech 4:2, 11.

First let understand what the Candlesticks or Lampstands were that YAHSHUA was standing in the midst of:

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Rev 1:20 KJV

 And unto the angel of the assembly in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven SPIRITS of ELOHIYM, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. he one who has an ear, hear what the SPIRIT says to the congregations. Rev 3:1, 6 HRB

They represented THE HOLY SPIRIT; according to Strong Greek Dictionary G4151, it concluded that the word also meant THE HOLY SPIRIT. If you also would notice that the word "of," is not present but put in by the KJV. So it should say "SPIRITS ELOHIYM," and to be exact it is not a plural word! The Bible was making it clear that THE HOLY SPIRIT was working with each congregation that today we call churches; they were not following the truth that THE COMFORTER was providing. That why for each church it stated listen to THE SPIRIT!

Rev Chapter Eleven had nothing to do with with the congregations or it would have indicated it. Here is why, John was told to measure the Temple in Heaven with the saints. Rev 14:1-5 clearly states who those saints were, the 144,000 standing around the Throne of THE MOST HIGH and with THE LAMB. They are the redeem virgins also the first fruit from the earth. Rev 7:9, 14 clearly states that the great multitude comes out of the great tribulation. The same as Daniel 12:1  in which Strong Hebrew and Greek both state it means trouble. However, the Hebrew do not include persecution where the Greeks does. I stand with the Hebrew that there is no persecution but trouble, affliction, and anguish.

The two out of the seven congregations make no sense because this clearly show that this particular time was dealing during the Time of Trouble. Because it was given over to the Gentile for 3 1/2 or 1,260, 42 months which is the same as Dan 12:1, 6, 7. It indicated the Time of Trouble and the times, time and half a time is mention. This time is literally 3 1/2 years that the holy city would be tread underfoot and was not measure, it was part of the courtyard. The Two Olive Trees and Lampstands or Candlesticks that stands with ELOHIYM in the earth not in Heaven. YAHWEH, THE FATHER, and YAHSHUA, THE SON are in Heaven. THE COMFORTER is here and this is HIS work  with the Bible and the 144,000 saints. The two witness are in sackcloth, but they have power through THE HOLY SPIRIT and YAHSHUA stands in Daniel, declaring that when they finish the work, HE will scatter HIS people. Just like HE did with Elijah, their work will be done and then probation, the one hour will begin. The beast will appear and at that time be reveal and get rid of all religions and the Bible. They will be in the street of Jerusalem/Babylon. Why because the papacy and Catholic Church claims they are above the Bible. The pope can make changes because, they claim he is suppose to be Jesus and his father-that's why he is call "the holy father." But he is not YAHSHUA and THE MOST HIGH YAHWEH! The Catholic are the ones who think they can change Times and Law. So the whore and her daughters are rejoicing as well. For only 3 1/2 days and then YAHWEH calls them and they stand up listen what the Bible said:

And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half the SPIRIT of LIFE from ELOHIYM entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a GREAT VOICE from Heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to Heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the ELOHIYM of Heaven. The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:9 -14 SACRED NAMES KJV

I did make one mistake and typed that they were put in graves, they were not! As YAHWEH gives them LIFE  and was call to Heaven is the same time of the hour when an enormous earthquake takes place and tenth part of Jerusalem/Babylon fell. I feel this from YAHWEH due to the sins of Jerusalem who was suppose to represent HIM! The beast do not want the whore around and the kings of the earth with him will hate the whore. There will be a conflict and the battle of Armageddon begins, she has become weaken. She does not have the mark of the beast because she and her daughters are resisting him. They still claiming worship to their god which is the papacy who feel has taken THE ALMIGHTY ONES place. Mary is suppose to be THE HOLY SPIRIT and she is dead waiting for YAHSHUA to come!

I stand saying still this is the Ark of HIS TESTAMENT, that will be reveal because this the second woe! Read on as the third woe comes:

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in Heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our YAHWEH, and of HIS MESSIAH; and HE shall reign forever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before ELOHIYM on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped ELOHIYM, saying, we give thee thanks, O YAHWEH ELOHIYM ALMIGHTY, which art, and wast, and art to come; because THOU hast taken to THEE THY GREAT POWER, and hast Reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto THY servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear THY NAME, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the Temple of ELOHIYM was opened in Heaven, and there was seen in HIS Temple the Ark of HIS Testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail. Rev 11:15 -19 SACRED NAMES KJV

This shows that the time had come from the MESSIAH to come to earth. This Chapters concentrates on the great city and that it Jerusalem. It was where YAHSHUA was crucified and also call Egypt and Sodom in the past. Now it will be given over to the gentile (papacy/whore), the revealing that Word of ELOHIYM will have power, they are the two witnesses. They receive this power from THE HOLY SPIRIT and the Word had power over it enemies even to kill them if they try to harm them.  The had power to stop the rain that it would not come down during their prophecy and they could turn water into blood.They also will bring as many plagues as they choose. It shows when the beast would appear and when he does two witness will have finish their work! The beast shows up during the one hour and this is consistent.  And the two witness is HIS Testament and the Ark that was hidden is reveal for all the world to see. It shows that all of the above took place under the second woe and third woe deals with judgement, the end of the one hour and YAHSHUA is on the way and during this time hail will begin to fall. This is a synopsis and the way YAHWEH reveal HIS Word, HE gives a portion at a time. HE then explain in more detail certain things, so everyone can understand.

YAHWEH again, gives the complete picture in Revelation Chapters 14-19 of the 144,000 the beast, the false prophet- the two horned beast, the papacy/whore, the great city-Jerusalem/Babylon, the final seven plagues falling on the beast and his kingdom and people, Armageddon-the war between the beast and the papacy, the coming of YAHSHUA like a thief, while the two evil foes are Waring. Babylon now falls this is her  judgment; she loses the war and the beast stands. The beast begins to prepare to war with YAHSHUA!   And then a GREAT VOICE comes from out the Temple, that everything is done and again the hail the final 7th vial is poured out! Chapter 19 now shows that the beast thinks he can war with YAHSHUA but as he stand with the kings and nations of the earth who chose him over the truth. The all see him taken by YAHSHUA, not a weapon is drawn because of the BRIGHTNESS of HIS Coming! The beast and the false prophet is taken and place in a Lake of Fire. The rest of the nations an angel call the birds to eat their flesh because they fall like dead people with THE BRIGHTNESS of YAHSHUA'S Coming. This is how Revelation provide the complete story of what will take place.

I do not ask anyone to believe what I say, only THE HOLY SPIRIT will lead you into truth. You must prove all things and have a willing heart to listen and pray and allow HIM to show you the Word of THE MOST HIGH! It is my duty to repair the breach and to come in the same SPIRIT that Elijah had. I can only provide what the Bible says and accept my fruit of understanding prophecy. That does not make a prophet, but as Paul said to build up or to edify the church. 1Co 14:3, 4  We all must choose who we will serve but my question to all, what is wrong with checking out and comparing what I provide with yours over prayer? If you then feel that it is not right, then you have made your choice. I am free because I have given what THE HOLY SPIRIT have ask me to do and I have made my choice as well. Then both of us will see who stands true in the last day and that will be fair and just for all!

Happy Sabbath and be bless!

[8thdaypriest]

22 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

And unto the angel of the assembly in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven SPIRITS of ELOHIYM, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. he one who has an ear, hear what the SPIRIT says to the congregations. Rev 3:1, 6 HRB

They represented THE HOLY SPIRIT; according to Strong Greek Dictionary G4151, it concluded that the word also meant THE HOLY SPIRIT. If you also would notice that the word "of," is not present but put in by the KJV. So it should say "SPIRITS ELOHIYM," and to be exact it is not a plural word! The Bible was making it clear that THE HOLY SPIRIT was working with each congregation that today we call churches; they were not following the truth that THE COMFORTER was providing. That why for each church it stated listen to THE SPIRIT!

Now we are getting into the Trinity doctrine.  This would better be discussed in the Trinity topics forum.

I believe the "seven spirits" really are the seven highest angels who serve God the Father and His Son - NOT a third divine being.

"Listen to the Spirit".  And in every case - the Spirit speaking WAS Christ speaking - NOT a third divine being. 

[8thdaypriest]

22 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I do not ask anyone to believe what I say, only THE HOLY SPIRIT will lead you into truth. You must prove all things and have a willing heart to listen and pray and allow HIM to show you the Word of THE MOST HIGH! It is my duty to repair the breach and to come in the same SPIRIT that Elijah had. I can only provide what the Bible says and accept my fruit of understanding prophecy. That does not make a prophet, but as Paul said to build up or to edify the church. 1Co 14:3, 4  We all must choose who we will serve but my question to all, what is wrong with checking out and comparing what I provide with yours over prayer? If you then feel that it is not right, then you have made your choice. I am free because I have given what THE HOLY SPIRIT have ask me to do and I have made my choice as well. Then both of us will see who stands true in the last day and that will be fair and just for all!

Are you telling us that you have special personal instruction direct from "THE HOLY SPIRIT" to set us strait concerning the correct interpretation of Daniel, Revelation and Zechariah, and the whole Bible for that matter? 

Are you telling us that we will NOT "stand true" in the last day, if we do not come to the same understanding that you hold?

Wow!  

[stinsonmarri]

4 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Now we are getting into the Trinity doctrine.  This would better be discussed in the Trinity topics forum.

I believe the "seven spirits" really are the seven highest angels who serve God the Father and His Son - NOT a third divine being.

"Listen to the Spirit".  And in every case - the Spirit speaking WAS Christ speaking - NOT a third divine being. 

I am not in the Trinity doctrine, I am in the Bible doctrine. You may not believe in THE HOLY SPIRIT, but I do and I believe HE, THE FATHER and THE SON are separated BEINGS! Yes I believe in THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS who work together, THEY have ONE PURPOSE mankind. The Bible says HE will never speak of HIMSELF! Now that clear to me also when they put the word "of," when is was not there in both the Hebrew and the Greek. When you change the context of the sentence you change the thought! THEY are not person, THEY are SPIRIT BEINGS just like the angels, we are fleshly beings! So I understand when the Bible said THE MESSIAH'S SPIRIT it is talking about HIM because, HE is a SPIRIT again! Flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven!

Blessings!  

[8thdaypriest]

7 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

I am not in the Trinity doctrine, I am in the Bible doctrine. You may not believe in THE HOLY SPIRIT, but I do and I believe HE, THE FATHER and THE SON are separated BEINGS! Yes I believe in THREE INDIVIDUAL BEINGS who work together, THEY have ONE PURPOSE mankind. The Bible says HE will never speak of HIMSELF! Now that clear to me also when they put the word "of," when is was not there in both the Hebrew and the Greek. When you change the context of the sentence you change the thought! THEY are not person, THEY are SPIRIT BEINGS just like the angels, we are fleshly beings! So I understand when the Bible said THE MESSIAH'S SPIRIT it is talking about HIM because, HE is a SPIRIT again! Flesh and blood cannot enter Heaven!

Blessings!  

Like I said - better discussed in the Trinity Topics forum.

[stinsonmarri]

5 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Are you telling us that you have special personal instruction direct from "THE HOLY SPIRIT" to set us strait concerning the correct interpretation of Daniel, Revelation and Zechariah, and the whole Bible for that matter? 

Are you telling us that we will NOT "stand true" in the last day, if we do not come to the same understanding that you hold?

Wow!  

What I am telling you, while you are wowing, that you have a choice. You do not have to believe me, nor do I have to believe you. What I believe is truth and sometime I agree with you because it comes from the Bible. I am a human being just like you and I do not have Heaven or the grave to place anyone. If YAHSHUA said HE must leave for THE COMFORTER to come. I believe it! When THE HOLY SPIRIT came down like a dove, and landed on HIS SHOULDER as HE came out of the water; then I believe it. I believe when YAHSHUA said baptizing in ALL THREE of THEM, THE FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT; and not ghost! That is what I believe and that is what I present. You do not have to accept it, all I ask is that you check it out! But first pray and allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead you into all truth!

Be bless!

[8thdaypriest]

Daniel 7:24  "The ten horns are ten kings Who shall arise from this kingdom. And another shall rise after them; He shall be different from the first ones, And shall subdue three kings."

The three subdued kings/horns still exist.  They are simply subdued or forced to submit. 

Revelation 17:12, 13 "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast."  "These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast."

Revelation 17:16 "And the ten horns which you saw on the beast, these will hate the harlot, make her desolate and naked, eat her flesh and burn her with fire."

The ten kings/horns burn the Harlot.   This appears to happen at the very END of this age.   Which would make the 10 kings/horns an alliance at the very END of this age. 

 

[stinsonmarri]

9 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Like I said - better discussed in the Trinity Topics forum.

Like I said you are wrong and you do not choose what forum I comment on. It is sad that because you did not like what I said that you have to act this way. It is always a policy I thought to agree to disagree. But acting hostile to me is acting like a child. I will never ask you or anyone to believe me I am just like you presenting and commenting. You do not have accept anything that I present. My prayers are with you because I will not allow myself to succumb to your action.

Blessings!

[8thdaypriest]

3 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

What I believe is truth

I know that you believe what you say.  You are sincere in that.  I do not personally agree with some of what you post - your view of things, your interpretation.   You seem to believe that I will "not stand" when Jesus returns, if I do not come round to agree with your view.  It is difficult to have a "discussion" with someone who infers such things.  Why not just stick to posting your interpretation/understanding of the words of the Text, and leave off the calls for repentance (coming round to your view of things). 

 

[stinsonmarri]

5 minutes ago, 8thdaypriest said:

I know that you believe what you say.  You are sincere in that.  I do not personally agree with some of what you post - your view of things, your interpretation.   You seem to believe that I will "not stand" when Jesus returns, if I do not come round to agree with your view.  It is difficult to have a "discussion" with someone who infers such things.  Why not just stick to posting your interpretation/understanding of the words of the Text, and leave off the calls for repentance (coming round to your view of things). 

 

If you going to quote me please use all of it and not part of it. "What I believe is truth and sometime I agree with you because it comes from the Bible." I was trying to say that I believe some of the things you said are true. I worded it wrong, but you still made it look like I am better than others. Yes, I am sincere and I am sure you are as well. But let's be honest, we both cannot be right and that is  what I meant and will stand by it. When the time come one of us will know who was right and who was wrong and that is a fact. I am stating simple it cannot be both ways. It is a choice that both of US have to make. I am not leaving my SDA faith, but I know that some things that have been taught have been misleading. Even though those who claim to believe in EGW do not read what she said that we cannot hold on to error. All of us must choose what we believe is true or not! We must come to that conclusion. My comment to you was to say when the time come one of will know who was presenting the truth. I believe that THE HOLY SPIRIT will lead us into truth. I am sad that you left the SDA faith for whatever reason and pray that you return. However, it still is your choice between you and THE SAVIOUR. That is why I constantly say I am a presenter and you must pray. Check out what I have provided and then choose.

Be bless!

[JoeMo]

I agree with Rachel; the last several posts belong in the new "Trinity" section.  I also agree with Rachel that the HS is not a third Member of the Trinity; but I also concede that there are strong Biblical arguments to support both sides of the issue.  as stinsonmarrie says, eternity will show us which side is correct.  None of us can adequately wrap our heads around the essence of God in our limited physical state; but I'm sure we all love and trust God enough to desire Him whatever His essence or Personhood is.

In private meditation on Jesus' statement that He and the Father are One" I have even considered that Jesus and the Father are the same Being - that the Father is the spiritual manifestation of that Being and Jesus is the physical manifestation. I don't really believe that, but the idea has crossed my mind.

[Gregory Matthews]

O.K.  On the basis that there are two of you posting in this thread who believe it should be move to the new Trinity section, I will do so.

In addition, I will move some other threads.

 

[stinsonmarri]

4 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I agree with Rachel; the last several posts belong in the new "Trinity" section.  I also agree with Rachel that the HS is not a third Member of the Trinity; but I also concede that there are strong Biblical arguments to support both sides of the issue.  as stinsonmarrie says, eternity will show us which side is correct.  None of us can adequately wrap our heads around the essence of God in our limited physical state; but I'm sure we all love and trust God enough to desire Him whatever His essence or Personhood is.

In private meditation on Jesus' statement that He and the Father are One" I have even considered that Jesus and the Father are the same Being - that the Father is the spiritual manifestation of that Being and Jesus is the physical manifestation. I don't really believe that, but the idea has crossed my mind.

You may agree with Rachel, but neither of you have the right to say how I choose to believe. I do not believe in the trinity. I do believe in THREE BEINGS and not one being three persons. I never said in any of my comments that THE HOLY SPIRIT is a member of the trinity, never! You have accuse me falsely. Yes, YAHSHUA has said that HE and HIS FATHER are ONE. However, that is in thought and purpose just like Adam stated the same thing about him and his wife. It amazes me that people cannot see that the same thing was said but many want to interpret it differently. I see that Adam had the NATURE and MIND of HIS CREATOR which is HIS LIKENESS and provided it first in Genesis. He realize the beauty of oneness in marriage of two individual working together. The same ONENESS as THE FATHER, THE SON working together which also included THE HOLY SPIRIT. That is not a trinity and I choose to believe the Adam's oneness as THE FATHER and SON ONENESS along with THE HOLY SPIRIT. Why? Because our thoughts and ways are not like THE ALMIGHTY ONES and cannot even conceive in our finite minds THEIR MINDS!

I have never ask anyone of you to believe as I do. What I have ask is to check out what I have provided and pray and allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead you into truth. We all have a right to freedom of speech, I thought! No one has a right to make claim on how a person should believe. For the first time, I feel persecuted because two of you decided that you should tell me what and how I should believe. I do not agree with everything that is said, but you have a right to say it. I don't question where you should take your comments, I just respect them. When we all no matter who we are begin to say where a person should be place because of their belief is different than yours, it leads to persecution and death. I know that is not what THE MESSIAH wants. We should always respect Forums rules, but we all come here addressing our take on each and every subject. Now it appears that if someone says something you don't like you say this should be move. My question to all when have any of you become THE MOST HIGH!!!!!!!!!

Blessings!

[8thdaypriest]

1 hour ago, stinsonmarri said:

I have never ask anyone of you to believe as I do. What I have ask is to check out what I have provided and pray and allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead you into truth. We all have a right to freedom of speech, I thought! No one has a right to make claim on how a person should believe. For the first time, I feel persecuted because two of you decided that you should tell me what and how I should believe. I do not agree with everything that is said, but you have a right to say it. I don't question where you should take your comments, I just respect them. When we all no matter who we are begin to say where a person should be place because of their belief is different than yours, it leads to persecution and death. I know that is not what THE MESSIAH wants. We should always respect Forums rules, but we all come here addressing our take on each and every subject. Now it appears that if someone says something you don't like you say this should be move. My question to all when have any of you become THE MOST HIGH!!!!!!!!!

I thought you understood that Gregory Matthews was setting up a new forum for threads that address different questions or aspects of the Trinity doctrine or the Nature of God and/or Christ.  THAT is why I said the subject might better be moved to the new forum,  NOT because I thought you should be silenced in some way, from posting your beliefs.  

Absolutely!  You have the freedom to post what you believe, and to explain why you believe as you do.   All individual posters have this freedom, so long as they do their posting in a civil manner.  

My attitude, on this Theology Forum, is that posters should post WHAT they believe, and WHY they believe such.   They may also make statements, such as "I do not agree", or "I do not share your view", but should not belittle other posters calling them ignorant, or uninformed, or simple, or backward, or "cursed", or "stars gone out", or any other names used to diminish.  

[Gregory Matthews]

To set the record straight:  The movement of the several threads in the Theology forum to this section,  had nothing to do with anything that stinsonmarri has either posted or that she believes.

Stan and I have talked in the past about establishing this special section for discussion on the Trinity.  For reasons of my own, I did not immediately make that move and held off from doing so for a while, after Stan opened this thread.  Today I decided to make that move.

I will say again:  My reasons for making the move had nothing to do with Stinsonmarri.   As she has posted on this subject those posts have been moved along with others.  Bur her beliefs and posts were not a factor in my decision to make this move today.
 

 

[Gail]

Another note- posts that are lengthy rarely get read. Make your point using as few words as possible. Charles Dickens got paid by the word; you likely do not.

A good rule of thumb is to use a topic sentence either at the beginning or at the end of your paragraph. I often highlight those in books that I read.

[stinsonmarri]

16 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Many people do this already (re Holy Spirit), but we have no idea who or when. It would not be wrong of you to ask people to believe what you do, or, vise versa. As long as we play nice, or, as nice as possible.

I do not know what you mean about the who or when with the re HOLY SPIRIT, in parenthesis. Maybe you can clarify it a little more for me. ☺️ 

The reason I do not ask people to believe, I want them to study it first and make their own decision. To me, I feel too many times, people try to pressure people into believing the way they do. That is what the Republican party wants do and I do not feel that is right. We are not ancient Israel who at one time was under YAHWEH rule. This country has never been under one faith rule and especially not YAHWEH'S Commandments! The HOLY SPIRIT was left to lead people into truth. We are to be messengers and repairers of the breach. Provide or present the information base on what the Bible says. We are not to interpret the Bible, show where translators have change words and context. Then allow each person, like the Bereans, to see what is presented is so through THE POWER of THE HOLY SPIRIT! Everyone have a choice and they can pray, then I feel that THE HOLY SPIRIT will lead all who is willing into truth. It may not be today or tomorrow, but when the right time comes. That's my hope and faith for all!

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

39 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

I am Canadian; I know nothing of the Republican party. All I meant was that it is usually OK to ask people to make a decision, as long as we dont force the issue; and that if someone is "moved by the Holy Spirit," we often do not really know it just by looking at them. Regarding "Repairing of The Breach; we all-too often try to repair things that are not infact "broken."

I know you are a Canadian and try to explain to you what the Republican Party tries to force people believe. I agree with you, we should never force any issue and I cannot see those on this forum. So I ask them to pray and allow THE HOLY SPIRIT to lead them and not anyone else. 

Regarding the repairing of the breach here is what the Bible says:

And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, the repairer of the breach, the restorer of paths to dwell in. Isa 58:12

EGW stated this and I agree:

Where do we find the people who are thus addressed? Who is it that shall build the old waste places, and raise up the foundation of many generations? Where are the people who have had light from Heaven to see that a breach has been made in the Law of____?  4BC p. 1152

As the end approaches, the Testimonies of _____ servants will become more decided and more powerful, flashing the light of truth upon the systems of error and oppression that have so long held the supremacy. ______ has sent us messages for this time to establish _______upon an eternal basis, and all who believe present truth must stand, not in their own wisdom, but in ______; and raise up the foundation of many generations. These will be registered in the Books of Heaven as repairers of the breach, the restorers of paths to dwell in. We are to maintain the truth because it is truth, in the face of the bitterest opposition. ______ is at work upon human minds; it is not man alone that is working. The great illuminating POWER is from _____; the brightness of HIS example is to be kept before the people in every discourse. Letter 1f 1890

Blessings!

[JoeMo]

23 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

neither of you have the right to say how I choose to believe.

I don't think either of us told you how to believe.  We just said that we don't necessarily believe the same way you do.  Do you take offense at people believing differently than you do?  Is it me, or do a lot of your posts sound angry and confrontational?  For the record, I never (well - rarely) go out of my way to offend or annoy anyone.

[JoeMo]

19 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

So WHY bring it up every time somebody mentions the word?

There was no opportunity to bring it up prior to the existence of the new "Over the Line" forum.  Just bringing it up to let those who may not know about it that it is there.  The moderators seem to be hinting that this and other "over the line" subjects be located there.  I think it's a fair idea.

[8thdaypriest]

20 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

So WHY bring it up every time somebody mentions the word? Thats not called "discussion" at all. No one even wants to post on that subject anymore here because of that, I doubt there will be much action here in the "Trinity" Forums.

It is amazing how many threads on different subjects end up in debate about the nature of our God.  Even saying something as benign as "the Spirit will lead" is understood differently by different posters.   We cannot agree on the meaning of TERMS, when it comes to God, because "God" is understood differently by individual posters.  

[stinsonmarri]

2 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I don't think either of us told you how to believe.  We just said that we don't necessarily believe the same way you do.  Do you take offense at people believing differently than you do?  Is it me, or do a lot of your posts sound angry and confrontational?  For the record, I never (well - rarely) go out of my way to offend or annoy anyone.

I agree, you usually don't but you did this time I felt you did. You said: "I also agree with Rachel that the HS is not a third Member of the Trinity." You have never heard me say "third member of the trinity either." I do say HE is THE THIRD SPIRIT BEING with the ALMIGHTY TITLE ELOHIYM. That's what the TITLE means ALMIGHTY and you will see my say a lot THE ALMIGHTY ONES, which includes ALL THREE INDIVIDUAL SPIRIT BEINGS, not person. THEY made the angels to  be spirit beings like THEM and  we humans look like THEM at one time and had THEIR NATURE, the fallen angels THEIR NATURE too. We lost that when man became a six from a seven perfection! As we change we become like THEM in thought and mind, we are returning to our original NATURE LIKENESS, THEM!

I truly respect you and Rachel and I don't want you and her to say I believe in something that I don't. I want us to present our case and allow all to check out the source, pray and make up their own mind. I was hurt, and it appears that misunderstand was made, even by me perhaps. Let's just move on and continue to respect each other. We can agree to disagree and all provide or present their evidence. I am a SDA by faith, but not by doctrines or traditions and hold on to what the message given by our pioneers. If I sound judgmental, then please, please forgive me. I never want anyone to feel that way at all! Jo, you have agree with me a lot and have always been extremely respectful and I hope we can move on from this in peace.?

[Gregory Matthews]

To clarify, I am not aware of any consideration being given to place any other posts in that section.

Perhaps later some might be placed there?

 

[8thdaypriest]

The question concerning the fall of Babylon, is not really a Trinity topic.   Folks just went down a rabbit trail, changing the subject of the thread.  Maybe in future, we will find it easier to move discussions of Trinity (or not) to the new forum. 

[Gregory Matthews]

This thread was moved to this section due to its Trinity posts.

Yes, there were other posts in the thread that did not pertain to the Trinity.