Has Babylon fallen, has fallen, yet?

[8thdaypriest]

11 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

NOTE: I am exercising my right to chose, and to not reply to any posts that want to bicker about "God's Law, and how many commandments there "really are." The scriptures I have enclosed above do give us the full picture, in regards to God's Law, and the two covenants regarding same.

I did not think that you or anyone else here of recent, would agree with my view.  That's OK.  I posted it to make clear that I do NOT believe the 10 Commands were nullified by the New Covenant.  Instead they are/will be written on our hearts/minds.

[JoeMo]

On 7/5/2018 at 5:53 PM, 8thdaypriest said:

I do not see the "two witnesses" as the Old and New Testaments, because the "two witnesses" are resurrected when they hear the Voice of God, and they ascend to Heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them.

I believe that the two witnesses may be the churches in Rev. 2 and 3 of which God found no faults (Smyrna and Philadelphia).  If this is true, then these two groups of people  could be those who are translated (or "raptured") to heaven just prior to or during the second coming.

[8thdaypriest]

1 minute ago, JoeMo said:

I believe that the two witnesses may be the churches in Rev. 2 and 3 of which God found no faults (Smyrna and Philadelphia).  If this is true, then these two groups of people  could be those who are translated (or "raptured") to heaven just prior to or during the second coming.

Me too.

[JoeMo]

1 minute ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Me too.

I know!  I stole that idea from stuff you told me!

[JoeMo]

On 7/6/2018 at 9:15 PM, The Wanderer said:

i dont understand why you would say this??  There is no reason in scripture to assume such an idea. "The beast system" will not need this kind of structuring from us. Cash or no cash; theres a lot more to it than that.

In a society where paper cash is available, there will always be theft, fraud, and a lack of security.  In a cashless society, all transactions will be (in theory, at least) secure.  One way to accomplish this is with a chip.  How many parents have already "chipped" their pets and kids for safety and security reasons.  Several European and Asian nations are making great strides towards a cashless society (e.g., Sweden, the Netherlands, India, China).  Not everyone likes it, but it's being pushed down their throats by the government.  All a government has to do is start withdrawing cash from circulation; and people will eventually be forced into doing all transactions electronically.

I have heard rumors (mostly from lunatic fringe sites) that the U's' government may soon covertly begin removing $100 bills from circulation.

[JoeMo]

On 7/8/2018 at 10:28 AM, Ron Amnsn said:

I also note that the only stated difference between original covenant and the renewed covenant quoted by the author of Hebrews is that God will take responsibility for writing his Torah on our hearts

Another difference is the elimination of the OT sacrificial system. Jesus was crucified once and for all for the remission of all sins. There is no longer any need to offer lambs and bulls as atonement for sin.  See Hebrews 8 - 10.

 

There may be reasons to continue offering other types of sacrifices in the Kingdom - especially right before a big barbecue picnic!

[8thdaypriest]

On 7/8/2018 at 11:28 AM, Ron Amnsn said:

Since you dismiss certain passages of Jeremiah as being non-applicable to Israel, it is unlikely that you will interpret this passage in the way the author and original readers interpreted it.

Again with the personal accusations.  Not conducive to discussion.

You can tell us WHAT you believe, without accusing anyone else of neglect, or ignorance, or any other shortcoming where the Word of God is concerned.   To accuse me of teaching "another Gospel" is to say that I am cursed.  NOT conducive to discussion.  You seem to be saying that anyone who does not believe exactly as you do, about everything, is cursed. 

Galatians 1:8 "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!

The Jews were expecting Messiah to come riding into Jerusalem on a white horse, to overthrow the Romans.   Instead He died on a Roman cross.  They got it wrong.  Why should I then interpret every passage in "the way the original readers interpreted it" ?

On 7/7/2018 at 10:18 PM, Ron Amnsn said:

Paul's Gospel places high value on God's covenants with Abraham's descendants and with Israel as a nation. He welcomes the Gentile believers into the Commonwealth of Israel alongside the native Israelites as fellow heirs and equals in Messiah.  Paul and the Gospels depict the Messiah as one who kept the covenants fully as a royal representative of the Israelite nation, then died for the nation of Israel along with those who are grafted in to it, bestows the Covenant blessings to all who are citizens in the kingdom of heaven, and will sit on a throne that he inherits by covenant from His forefather David. 

Nothing I disagree with - above. 

But God WILL ALSO break off (from the tree), "cut off", and "cast out" from Israel, those DNA descendants (or grafted in citizens of Israel) who continue to break covenant (His Law) in a rebellious manner, or refuse to acknowledge and serve Messiah as the ONLY WAY to the Father and the Kingdom to come. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

7 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

Another difference is the elimination of the OT sacrificial system. Jesus was crucified once and for all for the remission of all sins. There is no longer any need to offer lambs and bulls as atonement for sin.  See Hebrews 8 - 10.

 

There may be reasons to continue offering other types of sacrifices in the Kingdom - especially right before a big barbecue picnic!

Revelation 21:4"'He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death' or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away." (NIV)

Why should "no more death" apply only to humans?  As for crying or pain, those animals did cry - from fear and pain as their blood was slowly drained, while they were still alive. 

No more!

 

[8thdaypriest]

1 minute ago, The Wanderer said:

"DNA" standing for "do not accuse?"   As in "accuser of the brethren"??

What???  I did not identify any individual sinners.  That is for HIM to do. 

[8thdaypriest]

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

Heb 8:10  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Adonai. I will put My Torah into their mind, and upon their hearts I will write it. And I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

 

5 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

What is your understanding re verse 10? Does that sound like the "same" covenant as the original one?

No.  THAT does NOT sound like the "original one".  The "original" or "first covenant" was the one in Eden.  Obey or die.   READ the Sinai Covenant.  That's what it said.  Obey or die.  That is why I say that Israel was brought into that first covenant.

The "new" covenant is the one that promises forgiveness and healing. 

WHEN did the New Covenant begin?  
It began as a promise - at the gate of Eden.  The very first sacrifice symbolized the promise of forgiveness.

The LORD has been writing His law on the hearts of those who seek Him, from the very beginning.  This is not a “new thing”.   

No human being can “obey” God’s Law, not in the way God wants him to obey, unless His Spirit is enabling.  Those patriarchs in the OT, who “obeyed God” in sincerity of heart - did so because the Spirit of Christ was “in them”.  

The “New” Covenant was needed BECAUSE the first one was broken.  It wasn’t just Israel at Sinai, who “broke” the “everlasting covenant”.  Every human being who has “sinned” has broken that “first” covenant, which essentially said, “Obey or Die".   

The “New” Covenant, replaces “You must do it” with “I will do it.”  That promise has been experienced - at least to some degree, by every saint.  

The “New” Covenant, provides forgiveness - for those who want it, and acknowledge they need it. This part was just a promise - until Jesus died.

The “New Covenant” was NOT RATIFIED, until Jesus (the one true sacrifice) was offered.  It was only promised.  Now it is a sure thing.

When will the New Covenant promise be fully realized?  

Ezekiel 11:17 “Therefore say, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD: “I will gather you from the peoples, assemble you from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 18 And they will go there, and they will take away all its detestable things and all its abominations from there. 19 Then I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My judgments and do them; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God.’” (NKJ)

The New Covenant is NOT FULLY REALIZED until the redeemed are gathered and settled in their own land.   It is not fully realized, even at the Glorious Return.  Should tell us there is a lot of healing that will be needed, and a lot of education. 

 

[8thdaypriest]

The TWO COVENANTS - "you do it" and "I will do it" have run together, ever since the promise was given.   They are represented by the "two women" of Abraham.  Abraham tried to "do it" himself (produce a son).  The result was Ishmael.   Then "the LORD did it" - and the result was Isaac.   Sarah could not produce that son, any more than I can truly obey God's law.  

Abraham's action with Hagar - trying to "do it" himself, represents our efforts to keep the "first covenant".   They fail, and they upset everybody.  Abraham's action with Sarah, with faith - represents the New Covenant.  The LORD made his efforts successful as Abraham believed.

[8thdaypriest]

Big storm here.  Internet went down. 

We were talking about Babylon, and the "Harlot" and got sidetracked into the covenants and the law. 

I read the description of "the great harlot" again.  I don't see how "she" could possibly be the Catholic Church. 

[stinsonmarri]

On 7/9/2018 at 9:30 AM, 8thdaypriest said:

Do you believe that every Israelite male was to be present in Jerusalem - three times in the year - for the "holy convocation"s ?   "Convocation" is also translated as "sacred assembly".   The "sacred assembly" gathered at the Temple, which was not where they ate, but where they worshiped and offered sacrifice.

Exodus 23:17 "Three times in the year all your males shall appear before the Lord GOD."

Deuteronomy 16:16 "Three times a year all your males shall appear before the LORD your God in the place which He chooses: at the Feast of Unleavened Bread, at the Feast of Weeks, and at the Feast of Tabernacles; and they shall not appear before the LORD empty-handed."

Passover may have been "a meal", but it was to be eaten in Jerusalem.  And sacrifices and offerings were to be offered to the LORD at those times. Most folks ate with relatives, also gathered at Jerusalem.  Some would call that a "Feast".  

 

Yes, I do believe in the Sacred Assemblies. And during the OT the male was to assemble. However, if you notice during the time of YAHSHUA both parents attending the Holy Convocation of Unleavened Bread.

Speak to the children of Israel, and you shall say to them, the set Appointed Times of YAHWEH, which you are to proclaim as to be Holy Convocations, even these are MY Appointed Times: Lev 23:2  SACRED KJV, HRB

And HIS parents went into Jerusalem year by year at the solemn day (the Unleavened Bread) of the pasch  (passover). Luke 2:41 DRB

And the Holy Day of Unleavened Bread, being called passover, drew near. Luke 22:1

Even if you ate with your relative, you nor them can change words in the Bible. It was not a banquet of over abundantly eating, that came from paganism!

Feast (n.):c. 1200, "secular celebration with feasting and entertainment" (often held on a church holiday); c. 1300, "religious anniversary characterized by rejoicing" (rather than fasting), from Old French feste "religious festival, holy day; holiday; market, fair; noise, racket; jest, fun" (12c., Modern French fête), from Vulgar Latin *festa (fem. singular; also source of Italian festa, Spanish fiesta), from Latin festa "holidays, feasts, festal banquets," noun use of neuter plural of festus "festive, joyful, merry," related to feriae "holiday" and fanum "temple," from Proto-Italic *fasno- "temple," from PIE *dhis-no- "divine, holy; consecrated place," suffixed form of PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts.

The spelling -ea- was used in Middle English to represent the sound we mis-call "long e." Meaning "abundant meal" (whether public or private) is by late 14c. Meaning "any enjoyable occasion or event" is from late 14c.

It is amazing to me that people want to change the Word of YAHWEH as if it is ok, it is not and that's the problem. That's why we have so many different churches all claiming to be correct. I don't care if you are an SDA or from any other church, the Bible clearly said to not add or take away from HIS Word. So then we say one interpret it this way and another some other way. Again the Bible said there is no private interpretation, YAHWEH says to seek understanding and that is why HE said very clear in Hosea 4:6 that HIS people are lost due to the lack of knowledge and understanding. Then most stop here and do not finish what it says! Because  you forgotten HIS Law! Here is exactly what HE said about the passover and Unleavened Bread.

And they shall eat the flesh in this night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. And you shall eat it this way: with your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. And you shall eat it in awe. It is the Passover to YAHWEH. And the day shall be a Memorial for you. And you shall celebrate it as solemn to YAHWEH, for your generations. You shall celebrate it as an Enactment (Appointed Time, Commandment, Statute) forever. You shall eat unleavened bread seven days. Indeed, on the first day you shall cause leaven to cease from your houses. For anyone eating any leaven, that soul shall be cut off from Israel, from the first day until the seventh day. And on the first day shall be a Holy Convocation (Assembly), and in the seventh day a Holy Convocation (Assembly), shall be to you. Not any work may be done on them. Only what must be eaten by each soul that alone may be done by you. And you shall observe the Unleavened Bread for on this very day I brought out your armies from the land of Egypt. And you shall observe this day for your generations, a *Statute forever. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, at evening you shall eat unleavened bread, until the twenty-first day of the month, at evening. And Moses called to all the elders of Israel and said to them, Draw out and take of the flock for you and for your families, and kill the **passover. 27 Then you shall say, a sacrifice of a passover of YAHWEH, who passed over the houses of the sons of Israel in Egypt when He struck Egypt. And HE delivered our houses. And the people bowed and worshiped. Ex 12:8, 11, 14-18, 21 Scripture 99+, HRB

Luke had to show that the passover was a part of the Unleavened Bread and here proof:

And on the first day of Unleavened Bread  the disciples came to YAHSHUA, saying unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare for thee to eat the passover? Mat 26:17  Scripture 99+, HRB

Torah: a Precept or Statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - Law.

Mitsvâh: a command, whether human or Divine (collectively the Law): - (which was) commanded (-ment), law, ordinance, precept. Ex 24:12 Strong Hebrew Dictionary

Psa 119:5: 

Oh, that my ways were established To guard Your Laws! The Scriptures 2009

O that my ways were directed to keep thy Statutes! KJV

O that my ways were fixed to keep Your Statutes! HRB

Again, people must choose whom they will serve. It is a choice and the Bible does not change

Blessings!

[8thdaypriest]

10 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Covenant was about God's Ten Commandment Law

It was ABOUT God's Law.  "On these two hang ALL the Law and the prophets (all that the prophets taught)." 

The 10, were just a condensed summarized version, of God's Law as a whole.

[8thdaypriest]

11 minutes ago, stinsonmarri said:

It was not a banquet of over abundantly eating, that came from paganism!

Yes.  I agree with that.

[8thdaypriest]

19 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

IF one would like to go there into that line of thought, then, essentially, it is still "obey or die," and always will be??

Those not "in Christ" ARE living under "the law" - obey or die.

Those "in Christ" are living under the New Covenant - "I will bring you back to life."

[8thdaypriest]

3 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Jer 31:32  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33  But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Yes - God made a covenant with Israel.  It was the same covenant that He made with Adam/Eve.  Obey and live.  Disobey and "dying you will die." 

Ezekiel 33:11 "Say to them:`As I live,' says the Lord GOD,`I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?' (NKJ)

But we humans need HELP to "turn" from our evil ways.  We cannot "do it" without Christ within.  Neither could THEY - the people of the OT.   That HELP was not part of the original Eden covenant.  That HELP is the promise of the New Covenant.  

How could the people of the OT "turn" back to the LORD - WITHOUT the Spirit of Christ?  Answer:  They couldn't.  

The fact that they experienced the "help" and "the Spirit", means they were included in the New Covenant, even though that Covenant had yet to be ratified by sacrifice. 

[stinsonmarri]

26 minutes ago, The Wanderer said:

Using the same principles, from scripture, so were/are "the two greatest. They are not something separate and distinct from the ten commandments. Not in my mind anyways. I tend to steer away from debates about exactly how many commandments there really are, but when I get a bit of time; I will post my references for what I just said and then people can do their own searching and decide for themselves.

No where will you find THE FATHER, THE SON or THE HOLY SPIRIT used the word ten. It is only mention 3 times 

Ex 34:28; Deut 4:13; 10:4

Eser or Asarah: Ten (as an accumulation to the extent of the digits) Strong Hebrew Dictionary

Eser is an accumulation of division, a tenth and asarah is actually to the power of ten. The reason you will not find THE ALMIGHTY ONES using the word ten because Genesis chapter 1 and 2 are Laws of science, time and nature and they all are part of the innumerable Commandments. You cannot have one without the other. The earth felt the blood of Able and Cain was required to be his brother's keeper. The principle of the Law is to obey ELOHIYM with all your mind and soul and your neighbor as yourself. The Law of ELOHIYM keeps correct time and THE CREATOR gave us the lunar/solar calendar. We did not need to make one ourselves, nature is everything that  deals with the law of birth. Tree, plants, animals, and human beings all have a specific Law of birth! That is how all develop and grows you cannot change it. Two men or women cannot produce children, they are out of order with the Law! We are not suppose to even amalgamate seeds  together, animals together. Mankind is not to be mix at all together with animals; it will start confusion! The reason why we cannot control time or science is because they are control by the sun, moon and stars. The sun comes up in the east and goes down in the west, the moon has phases to control the month as the sun controls the day time, the moon the evening. Man uses stars over the sea to calculate how to navigate. We control nothing and we thing we can change Time and Laws, we can't!

Blessings! 

[stinsonmarri]

20 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

There are some Bible versions which do seem to comment more clearly on this kind of thought. In The Tree Of Life Version it reads like this:

What is your understanding re verse 10? Does that sound like the "same" covenant as the original one?

This proves clearly that the NT was originally written in Hebrew and was destroyed. 

For many years it has been taught that Greek and Aramaic were the languages of Israel during the Second Temple period (530 BC to 70 AD). However, over the past fifty years more and more evidence has surfaced that the language of the Jews in Israel during this time was in fact Hebrew. Below are some of discoveries supporting this theory. Ancient Hebrew Research Center

The word "covenant," means agreement or contract and the Greek did not used or know this word as a Hebrew would. But the fact is simple the Covenant was the same and using the word new mean it would be given in the mind of each individual. Because Israel fail to keep the "Torah," (Law, Statutes, Judgments/Commandments) themselves and could not teach them or to witness to other nations. The agreement remain the same, the method was new. Even a child at about a year old, is able to start distinguished right from wrong. She/He now know the Law, which is in the mind and can begin to understand it. 

We make something so simple so complicated, why? In Revelation the very last Chapter, the requirement is you cannot enter the Gates of the New Jerusalem if you don't keep the Commandments which is the agreement given to the Adams from the beginning! The choice is simple keep them and receive life, don't then accept death. That's it!

Blessings!

[8thdaypriest]

14 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Yes - God made a covenant with Israel.  It was the same covenant that He made with Adam/Eve.  Obey and live.  Disobey and "dying you will die." 

Ezekiel 33:11 "Say to them:`As I live,' says the Lord GOD,`I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?' (NKJ)

But we humans need HELP to "turn" from our evil ways.  We cannot "do it" without Christ within.  Neither could THEY - the people of the OT.   That HELP was not part of the original Eden covenant.  That HELP is the promise of the New Covenant.  

How could the people of the OT "turn" back to the LORD - WITHOUT the Spirit of Christ?  Answer:  They couldn't.  

The fact that they experienced the "help" and "the Spirit", means they were included in the New Covenant, even though that Covenant had yet to be ratified by sacrifice. 

Remember Romans 8:1, where Paul talks about walking according to the flesh, OR according to the Spirit ? 

Walking "according to the flesh" would be the "We will do it" (fulfill the Law). 

Walking "according to the Spirit" would be the "HE will do it" (fulfill the Law in us). 

"Abraham believed and it was accounted to him for righteousness".   This is the "according to the Spirit" walk.  Abraham became the father of those who walk by faith.   There were some who walked by faith, during the period before Christ died.

So we have both kinds of "obedience" to the Law, which represent the "two women" of Abraham.  

The Law is the same.  How one keeps that Law is different.  And the result is different.  The "obedience" one can achieve "by the flesh" is poor, and forced, and not of the quality that God can accept. The obedience that one can achieve "by the Spirit" is wonderful, because it is really Christ's obedience, lived out in us. 

Abraham fell off the faith wagon, when he sired a son by Hagar.   In my experience I have fallen away from the "walk by the Spirit" connection several times.  And after I make a mess of it, I give up, and then I come back to the "walk by faith" connection.  Then it works!  Then I am successful - at whatever good "work" I wanted to do. 

The Jerusalem of Paul's day, was almost completely mired in their walk "according to the flesh".  They had not discovered how to walk "by faith" - "according to the Spirit". 

I'm saying that the New Covenant is the "walk by faith" covenant, and the "first"/"old" covenant is the walk "according to the flesh" covenant.   The TWO Covenants run concurrent.  But the "walk according to the flesh" is "passing away" because those who do not allow the Spirit of Christ "in" are dying, and will themselves "pass away". 

Those who walked by faith - by the Spirit, before Christ died, did so because the promise (of the ratifying sacrifice) had been given.

Those who walk by the Spirit today, do so because the sacrifice was offered. 

 

[JoeMo]

18 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

Why should "no more death" apply only to humans?  As for crying or pain, those animals did cry - from fear and pain as their blood was slowly drained, while they were still alive. 

No more!

First and most importantly, I was just messing with people about the barbecue.  Secondly, I don't think the "no more death" part includes all creatures; it does say we won't be killing for killing's sake.

"He said to me, “This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah, where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh. Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live. Fishermen will stand along the shore; from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds—like the fish of the Mediterranean Sea." (Ezekiel 47:8-10)

To me, this indicates that fishermen will still be fishing.  I don't think it will be "catch and release";  I think people will be eating fish.

[stinsonmarri]

23 hours ago, JoeMo said:

I believe that the two witnesses may be the churches in Rev. 2 and 3 of which God found no faults (Smyrna and Philadelphia).  If this is true, then these two groups of people  could be those who are translated (or "raptured") to heaven just prior to or during the second coming.

When thing are written symbolically, you have to understand what is mean that they were called to Heaven. Testament or Testimonies mean something that testify on what you stand for. That is what the two Witness are YAHWEH'S Testimonies. Deut 4:45; 6:17, 20; Psa 25:10; 78:56; 93:5; 99:7;  119:2, 31, 36, 46, 59, 79, 95, 99, 111, 119, 125, 129, 138, 144, 146,152, 157, 167, 168;  Jer 44:23  Now where will you find them? They are the Old and New Testaments known as the Bible. 

If you notice in Rev 11:4 two Candlestick and two Olive Trees, these both represent THE HOLY SPIRIT. HE is always represented as the oil for the lamp! Ex 35:14, 28, 29; Mat 25:3,4

Rev 11:5, 6 show, they will have power and that is true especially like Moses and Elijah which is located in the Bible. That means people will use the Bible and it will give them power as in THE SPIRIT of Elijah-THE HOLY SPIRIT! Now you should see this coincide with verse 1; the saints being measured in the Temple. That is the 144,000 who are being refer here and they are the ones who will finish the work. "The harvest is plentiful, but the labors are few."

Finally, verses 7-13 is remarkable, it shows that this is the time of the beast; himself, the eighth will be reveal. He appears to kill not the saints, but the Bible, the Word of YAHWEH and the wicked are happy and they see their bodies; which symbolizes the books, and bury them in the grave. Yet, they are call up to YAHWEH within one hour. Here is the one hour again or during the probation period they are bury three and half days. An earthquake, (this is Armageddon battle between the beast and the papacy) even the remnant was frighten and they are in a safe place now. Tenth part of Jerusalem had fallen, but YAHWEH intervene to call up HIS Testimonies and surprise, surprise, the Ark of the Covenant; which is HIS Testimonies that HE WROTE with HIS FINGER! Because of this great earthquake it will come from where Jeremiah hid it all these centuries to take its place in Heaven! All will see that YAHWEH'S Law were never change or be done away with. The beast and his armies also the papacy and her daughters will all see truth before YAHSHUA returns! "Just and truth are THY Ways!"

The Bible does not speak of a rapture and every eye will see HIM come! Two in the field both appear to be righteous, but HE knows their heart. The righteous one will be saved and taken when HE comes, the other lost!

Blessings!

[8thdaypriest]

6 hours ago, JoeMo said:

First and most importantly, I was just messing with people about the barbecue.  Secondly, I don't think the "no more death" part includes all creatures; it does say we won't be killing for killing's sake.

"He said to me, “This water flows toward the eastern region and goes down into the Arabah, where it enters the Dead Sea. When it empties into the sea, the salty water there becomes fresh. Swarms of living creatures will live wherever the river flows. There will be large numbers of fish, because this water flows there and makes the salt water fresh; so where the river flows everything will live. Fishermen will stand along the shore; from En Gedi to En Eglaim there will be places for spreading nets. The fish will be of many kinds—like the fish of the Mediterranean Sea." (Ezekiel 47:8-10)

To me, this indicates that fishermen will still be fishing.  I don't think it will be "catch and release";  I think people will be eating fish.

Maybe during "the 8th day".  Hard to separate symbolism from hard facts about the future.

[8thdaypriest]

17 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

When thing are written symbolically, you have to understand what is mean that they were called to Heaven. Testament or Testimonies mean something that testify on what you stand for. That is what the two Witness are YAHWEH'S Testimonies. Deut 4:45; 6:17, 20; Psa 25:10; 78:56; 93:5; 99:7;  119:2, 31, 36, 46, 59, 79, 95, 99, 111, 119, 125, 129, 138, 144, 146,152, 157, 167, 168;  Jer 44:23  Now where will you find them? They are the Old and New Testaments known as the Bible. 

If you notice in Rev 11:4 two Candlestick and two Olive Trees, these both represent THE HOLY SPIRIT. HE is always represented as the oil for the lamp! Ex 35:14, 28, 29; Mat 25:3,4

Rev 11:5, 6 show, they will have power and that is true especially like Moses and Elijah which is located in the Bible. That means people will use the Bible and it will give them power as in THE SPIRIT of Elijah-THE HOLY SPIRIT! Now you should see this coincide with verse 1; the saints being measured in the Temple. That is the 144,000 who are being refer here and they are the ones who will finish the work. "The harvest is plentiful, but the labors are few."

Finally, verses 7-13 is remarkable, it shows that this is the time of the beast; himself, the eighth will be reveal. He appears to kill not the saints, but the Bible, the Word of YAHWEH and the wicked are happy and they see their bodies; which symbolizes the books, and bury them in the grave. Yet, they are call up to YAHWEH within one hour. Here is the one hour again or during the probation period they are bury three and half days. An earthquake, (this is Armageddon battle between the beast and the papacy) even the remnant was frighten and they are in a safe place now. Tenth part of Jerusalem had fallen, but YAHWEH intervene to call up HIS Testimonies and surprise, surprise, the Ark of the Covenant; which is HIS Testimonies that HE WROTE with HIS FINGER! Because of this great earthquake it will come from where Jeremiah hid it all these centuries to take its place in Heaven! All will see that YAHWEH'S Law were never change or be done away with. The beast and his armies also the papacy and her daughters will all see truth before YAHSHUA returns! "Just and truth are THY Ways!"

The Bible does not speak of a rapture and every eye will see HIM come! Two in the field both appear to be righteous, but HE knows their heart. The righteous one will be saved and taken when HE comes, the other lost!

Blessings!

I've posted this before, but will again here.

There were no "candles" in the wilderness Tabernacle.  There was a lamp-stand, with small oil lamps at the top end of each "branching" arm.   The lamp-stand had six branching arms, 3 on each side, and one central post, also with a lamp at the end. 

The first press, extra fine, olive oil that was used to fill each lamp - that oil represented the Spirit, which "fills" us.  The lamps were the vehicle for the oil. 

Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth."

Revelation 11, describes conditions at the very end of this age.  The Beast (His head recovered from the deadly wound) will rule the globe, and will persecute the people of God. 

Revelation 11:4 [The Two Witnesses]  They are "the two olive trees" and the two lampstands, and "they stand before the Lord of the earth."

The word translated as "trees" (olive trees) can also be translated as "olive branches". 

If you recall, the Israel of God was depicted as an "olive tree" (Romans Cpt 11, Jer. 11:16).  Branches were broken off, and branches were grafted in.  The last two branches left on the tree, will be the "two witnesses" during the prophesied 1260 days. 

Revelation 1:20  "The seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches". 

Starting with 7 Churches (7 lampstands),  5 are "removed" because they fail to repent. 

Rev. 2:5  [Spoken to Ephesus]  "repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place" .

7 minus 5 = 2.  2 Lampstands left standing before the Lord in the Heavenly Tabernacle, and 2 branches left attached to the Olive Tree. 

As to the DEATH of the "Two Witnesses" : 

1.  They are witnessing for Christ and for His Gospel. 

2.  They can witness because they are filled with the Holy Spirit.     Acts 1:8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth." 

3.  The Beast will execute them, or will at least make it a death penalty offense to witness for the truth as it is in Jesus. 

This FITS with Daniel 12:7. 

Daniel 12:7 "Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever, that it shall be for a time, times, and half a time; and when the power of the holy people has been completely shattered, all these things shall be finished."

Seems the only way to shut the last Witnesses up, is to kill them. 

The Two Witnesses are compared with Elijah and Moses, because they preach the Elijah message - "Choose ye this day, whom you will serve", and the Moses message, "Remember the Law of the LORD, to keep it". 

 

[JoeMo]

Stinsonsarri,

While I appreciate your exhaustive post on why the OT and NT are the 2 witnesses, I respectfully don't believe as you do.  In short, Rev. 11:3 calls the 2 witnesses the two olive trees and two lampstands.  Rev. 1:20 says the seven lampstands are the seven churches. So doesn't it make sense that the two "Lampstand" witnesses would be two churches (or types of people)? And that those two churches or types of people represented by those churches which Christ had nothing against (Smyrna and Philadelphia)?