When will Iran attack our (US) fleet?

[Gregory Matthews]

As I said, dynamic translations have their place and I consider the translation that you commonly use to be a dynamic translation.

I also stated that  I was not going to address another issue related to the translation that you use.  Therefore, as I am not going to address that issue, I am not going to respond to the 2nd  part of your question to me.

 

[B/W Photodude]

20 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

 I use more then one translated version of the Bible. I used the Sacred KJV basically because it uses the correct spelling of ELOHIYM instead of ELOHIM.

                    ::SMH::

This has to be one of the most worthless arguments that goes on in Christian forums. When you are taking a word from another language and that not even a romanized language and attempt to transliterate it into a different language in different characters and then claim it is the "correct spelling", I seriously have doubts about any veracity in the whole argument.

Neither form given above in capital letters have I ever seen in Jewish prayer books. And rabbis have edited and taken care these sacred writings for thousands of years.

Even the word form of "ELOHIYM" is not a more modern form. It appears that one of the Tyndale translators worked on this "Sacred KJV" version. The use of the "Y" seems to be an older form of English like you might find in the Tyndale Bible or even Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales and not used today. Also reminds me of those radical feminists who can not even spell "women" anymore. They have a thing for "womyn"!

Now perhaps we can get back to something more important to discuss like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!

[stinsonmarri]

20 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

While I would differ with some of your conclusions about the name; you do have a good point that names, in the Bible, are very important.

Wanderer where we differ is something that you and I can discuss. I want to let you and everyone understand one thing the word god was not use it ancient times. I also want to make it clear between the difference between a name and a surname and the lexicons backs me up. Again if our names today are so important then why do we need our identification on passports, licenses, I Ds to match our names. We as SDA claim that the Sabbath Commandment identify THE HEAVENLY FATHER, I say not true! The Identification of THE FATHER IS:

Thou shalt not take THE NAME YAHWEH thy ELOHIYM in vain; for YAHWEH will not hold him guiltless that taketh HIS NAME in vain. Ex 20:7 

So what does the word vain mean and why would YAHWEH place this in the Commandments if it was not so important. Yet we as SDA know and teach the importance of all the Commandments; yet this one we make excuse for, why? Wanderer here is the reason why we need to research things. Because before you or I was born men translated the Bible and did exactly what EGW said, they mystified what was simple base on their beliefs. Were there SDA back then of course not. Why did the pioneers leave their congregations and form this one? You know why because they were not living up to all the truth and they were not keeping the Commandments. We as SDA keep harping on the Sabbath, but there were people who did keep the Sabbath before us. We learned from the Seventh day Baptist! So here's what I found:

Vain: Devoid: (adj.)"to remove, void, vacate" Etymology Dictionary

H7723; Shâv': From the same as H7722 in the sense of desolating; evil (as destructive), literally (ruin) or morally (especially guile); figuratively idolatry (as false, subjectively), uselessness (as deceptive, objectively; also adverbially in vain): - false (-ly), lie, lying, vain, vanity.

H7722; Shô'  Shô'âh   Shô'âh (sho, sho-aw', sho-aw'): From an unused root meaning to rush over; a tempest; by implication devastation: - desolate (-ion), destroy, destruction, storm, wasteness. Strong Hebrew Dictionary

So let me say by using these meanings I found. The ancient leading up to us have remove; void; or vacated HIS NAME and HE SAID you cannot plead guilty for doing it. That's what devoid mean from Bible Hub. Now all throughout time have desolated HIS NAME. The ancient like the Egyptians and others use HIS NAME for evil and destructive; ruining it immorally naming their idols. Now guile especially deals with Constantine up till today and the translations who have use deceit, wile, fraud, ruse, and trickery in changing HIS NAME! The name today are uselessness why because they used in cursing, jokes and all kind of negative things beside all religions of the world does to both HIS NAME and TITLE! We today have use false names, tried rush over this subject, we have devastated it and tried to make it desolate! Satan has got man today so worked that he has tried to destroy through men to make THEIR NAMES wasteful and unappealing. Do you still want to call THE HOLY SPIRIT a ghost?

You see HIS NAME is more important then the Sabbath because HE made the day Holy. By being who HE IS makes HIS NAME HOLY. That is why HE says that to all of us today, listen:

I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.  Who hath ascended up into Heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in HIS FISTS? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is HIS NAME, and what is HIS SON’S NAME, if thou canst tell?  Every word of ELOAH* is pure: HE is a shield unto them that put their trust in HIM. Add thou not unto HIS WORDS, lest HE reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Pro 30:3-6 WOY

* I use WOY from e-sword and if you check Bible Hub and look up the lexicon it also state ELOAH from Strong! From now on I will include the lexicon's that I use so everyone will be clear that I use known books by scholars that are used today. I am a Biblical Historian myself and I tried to provide accurate presentation. I cannot tell anyone to agree with me, but the Bible we all should agree with.

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

18 hours ago, B/W Photodude said:

                    ::SMH::

This has to be one of the most worthless arguments that goes on in Christian forums. When you are taking a word from another language and that not even a romanized language and attempt to transliterate it into a different language in different characters and then claim it is the "correct spelling", I seriously have doubts about any veracity in the whole argument.

Neither form given above in capital letters have I ever seen in Jewish prayer books. And rabbis have edited and taken care these sacred writings for thousands of years.

Even the word form of "ELOHIYM" is not a more modern form. It appears that one of the Tyndale translators worked on this "Sacred KJV" version. The use of the "Y" seems to be an older form of English like you might find in the Tyndale Bible or even Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales and not used today. Also reminds me of those radical feminists who can not even spell "women" anymore. They have a thing for "womyn"!

Now perhaps we can get back to something more important to discuss like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!

Photodue why do you call yourself the "prophet of doom?" What's the significant of ":SMH::?"  You stated; "This has to be one of the most worthless arguments that goes on in Christian forums. When you are taking a word from another language and that not even a romanized language and attempt to transliterate it into a different language in different characters and then claim it is the 'correct spelling'"

You know when a person alway comes with negative comment be prepare to back it up. You my friend even with the "prophet of doom," sadly is a bearer of that type of news. If you disagree with me that's fine but it is the unkind way you try to present certain things without any facts. So please allow me to present you with some facts. I am here to present truth with humility and not with doom!

What you are saying that if you take  a word from the Paleo Hebrew Script and transliterate it is worthless. Why due to the characters since they are not romanize? Well let's see character's versus scripts and pictogram that is interesting. You got me on that one????? Romanize languages shall we first learn what that means:

Romanization or romanisation, in linguistics, is the conversion of writing from a different writing system to the Roman (Latin) script, or a system for doing so. Wikipedia

Indo-European languages, especially those of Western Europe, are mostly written with the Latin alphabet. These languages include the Germanic languages (which includes English, German, Swedish, and others) and the Romance languages (which includes French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese and others). Latin script - Simple English Wikipedia

Now the Latin's had a script we all use today. So let's trace it because all ancient historians know that they were just copy cats off the Greeks:

The Latin or Roman alphabet is the writing system originally used by the ancient Romans to write the Latin language. Due to its use in writing Germanic, Romance, and other languages first in Europe and then in other parts of the world and due to its use in Romanizing writing of other languages, it has become widespread globally (see Latin script). It is also used officially in China (separate from its ideographic writing) and has been semi-adopted by Slavic (Russia) and Baltic states. The Latin alphabet evolved from the visually similar Cumaean Greek version of the Greek alphabet, which was itself descended from the Phoenician abjad, which in turn derived from Egyptian hieroglyphics. Sign Symbol and Script by Hans Jensen

 Nearly all modern alphabets are descended from an alphabet invented 4000 years ago, probably by a group of people related to the ancient Hebrews, Phoenicians, and Canaanites, living in what is now the Sinai desert.  They got the idea from the Egyptians, but used their own simplified pictures to represented consonant sounds.  The Phoenicians and others of the region simplified the pictures further and often rotated them, but if you use your imagination, you can still make out where most of the 22 letters came from.  If you turn the A with the point down, for example, you can see a representation of an ox head. The Evolution of Alphabets Dr. C. George Boeree

Well let see, I think is a common trend since all language were confounded by YAHWEH; so it isHIM that give man the knowledge to decipher them. HE, however, did not want them to change HIS WORD! You said; "Even the word form of "ELOHIYM" is not a more modern form. It appears that one of the Tyndale translators worked on this "Sacred KJV" version. The use of the "Y" seems to be an older form of English like you might find in the Tyndale Bible or even Chaucer's "Canterbury Tales and not used today. Also reminds me of those radical feminists who can not even spell "women" anymore. They have a thing for 'womyn'!"  Let me say this to you, I suggest you take this up with all the Biblical Scholars who I have quoted. Write a book provide your credentials and show the linguistic, philology ("historical linguistics"), epigraphy, and cryptography that you make so knowledgeable. I used more then one source such as Strong, NAS, Browns-Driver-Diggs. If you got a source just provide it. I see you do not understand the symbol "y," with Paleo Hebrew that's fine. But why say this; "Now perhaps we can get back to something more important to discuss like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin!" This is not funny nor is it attacking me, but just disrespect for the Bible. That is why I feel sad when you call yourself the "prophet of doom!" If you don't agree with me that is fine, I will not die I assure you. But I going to say you are a very unhappy person and the proof is how you write your comments to insult others. I will be praying for you be at peace.

Blessings!

[stinsonmarri]

15 hours ago, The Wanderer said:

"I SAY" is the wrong answer. It has to be "the Bible says? To give an example of how important names are, we can look at the name changes forced upon Daniel and his friends.

Wanderer I do not understand what you are implying with the "I say?" If you read Daniel Chapter Four, you see that the king call Daniel by the name of DaniEL; recognizing the true MOST HIGH ELOAH! The king also said that he had given him a pagan name for his false deity. It is all there and I agree about the subject is on Iran. Joe Moe ask the question and I did forget to put the Bible versions as I promise Pastor Matthew so that's how it went off the subject.

Blessings!

[hch]

I took the time to read this thread from its beginning this morning. Some very interesting stuff. 

And since it started, Saudi Arabia has had a man "die" in their embassy in Turkey. And Iran is about to get its oil income shut off.

Thing are heating up globally as America heads towards the midterms.

BUT God is in charge and the final movements will be rapid ones.

Oh that we were awake to our place in prophetic history and to our duty to God and man!

[Gregory Matthews]

A comment on transliteration:

Transliteration is not always an exact science in which a letter from one alphabet is always transliterated into the exact same letter in another alphabet.

I lived in South Korea on two  different occasions.   While living in that country, I gained extensive experience in transliterating from the Korean alphabet (South Korea does have an alphabet, which is sometimes used.) into the characters used in English speaking countries.  On a couple of the Korean letters each had two (2) English letters into which that Korean letter could be transliterated.  Both of those were accepted by scholars, who argued that their choice was the better one.

Finally, while I was there, the South Korean government stepped into the discussion and issued an edict that ordered that in each case, one of the English letters would be the accepted one to use in transliteration.

This is true for other languages, to include Hebrew.  There are Hebrew letters that have have two (2) English letters into which they could be transliterated, and each of which has been accepted by scholars.  That is one of the reasons why you may see the Biblical name for God spelled in English in a couple of different ways.

By the way, neither Strong's nor Young's is should be accepted as an authority on this issue.

NOTE:  Elohim and Elohiym are both accepted spellings by scholars as a name for God.  I will leave it for others to state which they believe is the majority view.  The bottom line is that both are accepted.

 

[hch]

I'm reviewing David Gates video. You might find it interesting.

 

[hch]

Now that I have viewed David Gate's video, it makes me want to study more. 

I now wonder:

1)if  the war with Iran will be in March or April 2019

2) if President Trump will be impeached in March or April 2019

or

3) if anything of prophetic significance will happen during that time period ????

interesting that Passover 2019 

• begins Friday, April 19
  • at sunset
• ends Saturday, April 27

[JoeMo]

On 11/3/2018 at 6:24 AM, hch said:

interesting that Passover 2019 

• begins Friday, April 19
  • at sunset
• ends Saturday, April 27

Why is that so interesting?

[hch]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 4:40 PM, JoeMo said:

Why is that so interesting?

The comment will make more sense after you watch the Gate's video.

[JoeMo]

1 hour ago, hch said:

The comment will make more sense after you watch the Gate's video.

I watched the video and didn't agree with ANY of it.  It was full of anti-Catholic rhetoric, full of false replacement theology, and other misinformation.  For example, Gates criticized changing our message from the imminent return of Jesus to the soon return of Jesus like it was some big deal.  Don't you think preaching the imminent return of Jesus for almost 175 years makes Adventists look a little goofy?  It wasn't imminent 175 years ago, or 100 years ago or 50 years ago.  It may or may not be imminent now.

My major objection was his referral to replacement theology - that God rejected Israel as His chosen people and replaced them with the Christian church.  God's promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Israel were UNCONDITIONAL.  Jesus was, is, and always will be a JEW.  Read the warnings in Romans 11 concerning looking down your nose at Israel:

"Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! ...  If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. ... As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable."

His message was not a blessing, as advertised.  It was full of fear and "fake news".  The gospel is the good news of salvation, and not the story of the terror of being in the hands on an angry God.

But I do appreciate watching it.  Now I know to never watch any of his videos ever again.

[Gregory Matthews]

Gates is not considered to represent Adventism, as generally understood.

This section, of this forum has been established where HCH, and others, can present their views that are not considered to be within main-line Adventism.

It is pushing the boundaries of this section to begin to advocate the views of another as this forum does not exist to promote other forums and views.  Rather it is a place to  engage in a civil discussion of one's own views.

I acknowledge that it is allowed to cite another forum as a point of reference.  I do that along with many others.  This will continue to be allowed.

 

[stinsonmarri]

On 11/3/2018 at 8:24 AM, hch said:

Now that I have viewed David Gate's video, it makes me want to study more. 

I now wonder:

Henry: I viewed the tape and it is base like the SDA Church views that the papacy or Catholic Church is the beast. It is not according to the Bible:

And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! Rev 8:13 

I have not seen any SDA preach on the three woes which are extremely important:

One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. Rev 9:12 

From Revelation 9:1-11; the event that place under this woe happen!

The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:14 

From Rev 9:13-11:13 all the events that took place happen under this woe! Then then under the third and final woe that comes quickly is Rev 11: 15-19. Now all of the rest of the Chapters in Revelation comes under each of these woes or events explain in more detail. I will say this again YAHSHUA gives HIS Summation first, why man give their summation last and the proof is in the woes. The events in each woes give you the main clues and events, then from Rev Chapter 12 to 22 expands on the events in each woe. I will concentrate on just a part of the second woe that deals with the beast.

And when they shall have finished their Testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our MASTER was crucified. And they of the people and kindred’s and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half THE SPIRIT of LIFE from ELOHIYM entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a GREAT VOICE from Heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to Heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the ELOHIYM of Heaven. The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:7-14 

The main points is that the beast now at this particular time comes from the bottomless pit. So I say again the beast and the whore are two different things or foes. Rev Chapter 13 first explains in detail finally how the fourth beast completely look. Exactly like how Daniel saw him as well but most do not take a clear look at what Daniel said about the fourth beast. It shall devour all the earth, brass claws, the feet that stamp the residue, the iron teeth;  which all of these did made it different then three beast before it appear. The beast devour the whole earth first represent the lion; the brass is Greece, the iron teeth shows that Rome is a part of the beast and the feet represent the bear. This is not the whore, but it does start within her belief system that gathers all of the belief systems or religions of Babylon, Persia, and Greece back together. All the three empires religions had already emerge the religions of Assyrian and Egypt between the three! So all of these religions of the earth started with Nimrod! 

The fourth beast does what no other religion does it devours the entire earth. The Catholic Church has never devour the entire earth! If it has please show me anybody! The beast is shown to hate the whore which is the Catholic Church. Then the river Euphrates had already dried up. Water always mean people and the people around this river serve the Islamic belief. It will dry up before the beast arrive. The drying up is to prepare for the kings of the east! The east are China and all the rest of the asian nations and Russia and her sister kingdoms she once rule! These are the various Aryan religions that were formed that are never discussed. These are devour by the beast; in other words have ended! Now, the whole world must worship the beast for a moment except the one who created him! All the 10 kings of the earth along with the beast hates the whore and within one hour she is destroyed. It is the false prophet that makes fire come down and destroy her.

It is the Testimony ( the Two Witnesses), the Bible which is the prophecies that Testified of YAHSHUA. EGW is not the Spirit of Prophecy, YAHSHUA is! Rev 19:10 She again reveals the Spirit of Prophecy and the SDA Church did not listen! She repeated in her visions what was already in the Bible, that is why she constantly said to take the Bible. If we take the Bible then we would understand and appreciate her statements and writings. They never was to take the place of the Bible and the great multitude will never need them. The five wise virgin/144,000 will use the Two Witnesses. Their power will keep the 144,000 from being hurt or in prison, killed at all! They will bring in the great multitude from the Two Witness and when they finish their work then they will scatter. Then the beast will come! Daniel and Revelation states clearly that once he appears then probation will close and it will only last one hour or two months. Then 15th day YAHSHUA will appear and destroy him and the false prophet and Satan will be lock up in the same bottomless pit that the beast came from! No one knows when the 3 1/2 years will begin, nor the hour probation begins, or the 1,335 days when YAHSHUA appears. But the shaking is now and the 144,000 are being sealed. When that time of sealing them have ended then The Time of Trouble will begin, we are at the door, I urge all to wake up. You will choose a side, which one will you choose!

Blessings!

[JoeMo]

Hi Marri,

I strongly agree with much of your post.

[phkrause]

20 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

I have not seen any SDA preach on the three woes which are extremely important:

Than you have not seen Doug Batchelor, Steve Wohlberg, and I can't remember a few others, but I've heard a few and pretty much all within the last few years.

[hch]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 11:41 AM, JoeMo said:

I watched the video and didn't agree with ANY of it.  It was full of anti-Catholic rhetoric, full of false replacement theology, and other misinformation.  For example, Gates criticized changing our message from the imminent return of Jesus to the soon return of Jesus like it was some big deal.  Don't you think preaching the imminent return of Jesus for almost 175 years makes Adventists look a little goofy?  It wasn't imminent 175 years ago, or 100 years ago or 50 years ago.  It may or may not be imminent now.

My major objection was his referral to replacement theology - that God rejected Israel as His chosen people and replaced them with the Christian church.  God's promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Israel were UNCONDITIONAL.  Jesus was, is, and always will be a JEW.  Read the warnings in Romans 11 concerning looking down your nose at Israel:

"Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring! ...  If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. ... As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable."

His message was not a blessing, as advertised.  It was full of fear and "fake news".  The gospel is the good news of salvation, and not the story of the terror of being in the hands on an angry God.

But I do appreciate watching it.  Now I know to never watch any of his videos ever again. bold text mine in reply

JoeMo,

I don't agree with every thing that Gates had in His video,  but I found some food for thought. Rather than to promote his view, I found some insightful comments that encourage Bible study

Regarding replacement theology: God did not reject Israel, they rejected Him. They swore allegiance to Caesar and Paul clearly states (as you quote) that while they remain in their unbelief they will be cut off of the olive tree. But God is graft them back into the tree if they return to God. You cropped some of the text. Here is the same text that I cropped:

 “The branches were broken off…because of unbelief…God spared not the natural branches…And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again” (Romans 11:19-23, ed).

Clearly Paul is saying that they are currently broken off the tree. They will remain separated from the tree until they turn from their unbelief. Thus, they are part of Babylon.

I just wrote a paper on that topic: I'll paste part of it...

 

Quote

 

When the Jews rejected Jesus (God with us, the One who saves His people from their sins), they rejected their Messiah, and they cut themselves off from the community of believers. As Christ had forewarned: “Many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness...” “Whosoever therefore shall confess Me before men, him will I confess also before My Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven.” “All things are delivered unto Me of My Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him. (Matthew 8:11-12; 10:32-33, 11:24, ed).

If Jews repent, accept Jesus Christ as their Savior, and return to God, He will take them back into His family. “The branches were broken off…because of unbelief…God spared not the natural branches…And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again” (Romans 11:19-23, ed). But while the Jews remain in rebellion, they are separated from God.

When the Jews rejected Jesus Christ, He established the Christian Church to take the gospel to the world. “And He said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15). Centuries later, Islam arose, claiming to be God’s true religion.

Thus, from Abraham, three world religions arose: Judaism, Christianity and Islam. [Islam came from the descendants of Ishmael (a son of Abram)]. Was Islam established by God to take the place of Christianity?

Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly…and I will make him a great nation. But My covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee…” (Genesis 17:18-21, ed).

God had rejected Ishmael from being the spiritual leader of God’s covenant people. When the Jews apostatized, Christ established Christianity. The Lord did not establish Islam to replace Christianity. Why not? Because of Islam’s unbelief!

Abraham’s early teachings had not been without effect upon Ishmael, but the influence of his wives resulted in establishing idolatry in his family... In his latter days he repented of his evil ways and returned to his father’s God, but the stamp of character given to his posterity remained. The powerful nation descended from him were a turbulent, heathen people...[1]

Does Islam have heathen doctrines? A Muslim explained: “If you are a clean hearted, clear minded, loving soul going through this life doing your best serving your Lord, the God of the universe, to the best of your ability, according to what you know, you are on the path of salvation.”[1]

Muslims believe that the way to Heaven is by good works. They believe that Jesus was a good man, a prophet, but not the Son of God. Islam is not based on Abraham’s covenant with God for they believe that they can go to Heaven without Jesus Christ being their personal Savior! Islam teaches a form of godliness: “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away” (2 Timothy 3:5). Thus, Islam is also a part of apostate Babylon.

Though Judaism was initially established by God, until it repents of its rejection of Jesus, the Messiah, it is apostate Babylon. And Islam that was not established by God: As long as it refuses to accept Jesus as the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE; it does not have the TRUTH. Though these Great Religions are widely believed to worship the true God (and they can be traced to Abraham): They are now Babylon.

---

[1]http://www.justaskislam.com/23/salvation-in-islam/

 

 

 

---

[1]PP 174.1

[hch]

On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 1:19 PM, The Wanderer said:

and we can KNOW this how? You have made several similar predictions about Iran in the past, and each one has utterly failed to happen. Any idea why?

Wanderer

When we study Bible prophecy, God allows us grow in our understanding. Like a baby walking, it some times falls before it learns how to balance himself. But don't be overly concerned about the falls, rejoice that it learns to walk. Likewise when we do not understand everything about Bible prophecy, not to worry: God promises that by their fulfillment Daniel and Revelation will explain themselves. So when we know in part and see the prophecies fulfilled, we grow in our understanding. 

But there are some that will not understand until it is too late. Like that man who told Isaiah that the prophet's word could not be fulfilled about the end of the siege. The next day, that man was trampled to death...with his eyes he saw the prophecy fulfilled, but he never got to eat a bite of the promised bounty.

We do well to remember how God has led us in our past history: Through a study of time prophecies, in spite of our not getting everything right, but by believing what we understood to the best of our knowledge and a willingness to learn from our mistakes and to go from light to brighter light.

[hch]

On ‎11‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 12:32 AM, stinsonmarri said:

Henry: I viewed the tape and it is base like the SDA Church views that the papacy or Catholic Church is the beast. It is not according to the Bible:

And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! Rev 8:13 

I have not seen any SDA preach on the three woes which are extremely important:

One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter. Rev 9:12 

From Revelation 9:1-11; the event that place under this woe happen!

The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:14 

From Rev 9:13-11:13 all the events that took place happen under this woe! Then then under the third and final woe that comes quickly is Rev 11: 15-19. Now all of the rest of the Chapters in Revelation comes under each of these woes or events explain in more detail. I will say this again YAHSHUA gives HIS Summation first, why man give their summation last and the proof is in the woes. The events in each woes give you the main clues and events, then from Rev Chapter 12 to 22 expands on the events in each woe. I will concentrate on just a part of the second woe that deals with the beast.

And when they shall have finished their Testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our MASTER was crucified. And they of the people and kindred’s and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. And after three days and an half THE SPIRIT of LIFE from ELOHIYM entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. And they heard a GREAT VOICE from Heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to Heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the ELOHIYM of Heaven. The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. Rev 11:7-14 

The main points is that the beast now at this particular time comes from the bottomless pit. So I say again the beast and the whore are two different things or foes. Rev Chapter 13 first explains in detail finally how the fourth beast completely look. Exactly like how Daniel saw him as well but most do not take a clear look at what Daniel said about the fourth beast. It shall devour all the earth, brass claws, the feet that stamp the residue, the iron teeth;  which all of these did made it different then three beast before it appear. The beast devour the whole earth first represent the lion; the brass is Greece, the iron teeth shows that Rome is a part of the beast and the feet represent the bear. This is not the whore, but it does start within her belief system that gathers all of the belief systems or religions of Babylon, Persia, and Greece back together. All the three empires religions had already emerge the religions of Assyrian and Egypt between the three! So all of these religions of the earth started with Nimrod! 

The fourth beast does what no other religion does it devours the entire earth. The Catholic Church has never devour the entire earth! If it has please show me anybody! The beast is shown to hate the whore which is the Catholic Church. Then the river Euphrates had already dried up. Water always mean people and the people around this river serve the Islamic belief. It will dry up before the beast arrive. The drying up is to prepare for the kings of the east! The east are China and all the rest of the asian nations and Russia and her sister kingdoms she once rule! These are the various Aryan religions that were formed that are never discussed. These are devour by the beast; in other words have ended! Now, the whole world must worship the beast for a moment except the one who created him! All the 10 kings of the earth along with the beast hates the whore and within one hour she is destroyed. It is the false prophet that makes fire come down and destroy her.

It is the Testimony ( the Two Witnesses), the Bible which is the prophecies that Testified of YAHSHUA. EGW is not the Spirit of Prophecy, YAHSHUA is! Rev 19:10 She again reveals the Spirit of Prophecy and the SDA Church did not listen! She repeated in her visions what was already in the Bible, that is why she constantly said to take the Bible. If we take the Bible then we would understand and appreciate her statements and writings. They never was to take the place of the Bible and the great multitude will never need them. The five wise virgin/144,000 will use the Two Witnesses. Their power will keep the 144,000 from being hurt or in prison, killed at all! They will bring in the great multitude from the Two Witness and when they finish their work then they will scatter. Then the beast will come! Daniel and Revelation states clearly that once he appears then probation will close and it will only last one hour or two months. Then 15th day YAHSHUA will appear and destroy him and the false prophet and Satan will be lock up in the same bottomless pit that the beast came from! No one knows when the 3 1/2 years will begin, nor the hour probation begins, or the 1,335 days when YAHSHUA appears. But the shaking is now and the 144,000 are being sealed. When that time of sealing them have ended then The Time of Trouble will begin, we are at the door, I urge all to wake up. You will choose a side, which one will you choose!

Blessings!

Sister,

I have studied the 3 woes and refrain from speaking about them here and now. When I understand more of the subject, I will have more to say.

God has many names, so I'm not hung up on that.

The 3.5 years were fulfilled during Christ's ministry. They foreshadowed the 1260 years of papal rule as a church/state, and they were fulfilled again in the life of Pope John-Paul II: He lived 42 months after 9/11/01 to 4/2/2005. The world wondered after him, Communism fell because of him, and many Protestant Churches wondered after him.

There is always room for more study and to grow in knowledge to the glory of God.

Kindest regards

 

[stinsonmarri]

15 hours ago, phkrause said:

Than you have not seen Doug Batchelor, Steve Wohlberg, and I can't remember a few others, but I've heard a few and pretty much all within the last few years.

No I haven't can you please show me how I can see each one online? I would love to see what they all say! Thanks in advance!

Blessings!

[B/W Photodude]

7 hours ago, hch said:

When we study Bible prophecy, God allows us grow in our understanding. Like a baby walking, it some times falls before it learns how to balance himself. But don't be overly concerned about the falls, rejoice that it learns to walk. Likewise when we do not understand everything about Bible prophecy, not to worry: God promises that by their fulfillment Daniel and Revelation will explain themselves. So when we know in part and see the prophecies fulfilled, we grow in our understanding. 

The problem is, ... when you have been wrong a number of times and then keep prophesying, it is dangerous to keep listening to you. Some in the Bible reported God as saying something, the hearer listened, and they died for listening. So, once someone fails in their prophesying, anyone else is more than justified to not listen to you again. One is not obligated to keep falling into the mud puddles of your failures as part of a growth process. If it was truly a prophesy from God, it will always be right. To prophesy in God's name and then be wrong is to make God out to be a liar!

7 hours ago, hch said:

But there are some that will not understand until it is too late.

 

Some will never understand, ever!

"Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." - Daniel 12:10

7 hours ago, hch said:

Through a study of time prophecies, in spite of our not getting everything right, but by believing what we understood to the best of our knowledge and a willingness to learn from our mistakes and to go from light to brighter light.

Generally, studying prophesy should be done in groups. When you come up with your own interpretations, you are then violating Peter's statement that no prophesy is of a private interpretation. From what I have read, your interpretations are derived solely thru your own personal studies. I would be concerned to give serious consideration.

[JoeMo]

8 hours ago, hch said:

Though Judaism was initially established by God, until it repents of its rejection of Jesus, the Messiah, it is apostate Babylon.

Very thoughtful paper, in general.  I pretty much agree with it except the statement I quoted. Israel is still God's Chosen People.  He chose them; they did not choose him.  Rather than quote the whole chapter, read Isaiah 65, which basically says God chose Israel; and though they will pay for their sins, He will save a remnant.  Paul says in Romans 11 that all Israel will be saved (I think He's talking about all Israel that remains alive at the end who have put their faith in Jesus).  The rulership of the Kingdom will consist of Israelites - the Patriarchs of Israel and the Apostles.  I would not be surprised if the 24 elders were the patriarchs and apostles.

[8thdaypriest]

2 minutes ago, JoeMo said:

I would not be surprised if the 24 elders were the patriarchs and apostles.

The "fathers" (patriarchs) - sure, but I doubt the NT apostles.   There is no account of any one of them being resurrected.  The 24 Elders were in place shortly after Christ rose, when He was glorified.  I believe they were resurrected by Christ shortly after He himself was raised by His Father.  Account is at the end of Matthew.

I also believe there are more than 24 of them.  The number 24, comes from David's division of the priests into 24 courses, who rotated in turn, to serve in the Temple.

[phkrause]

9 hours ago, stinsonmarri said:

No I haven't can you please show me how I can see each one online? I would love to see what they all say! Thanks in advance!

Blessings!

haha now you've put me on the spot ?  It might take me awhile, but when I find them I will post them!! I believe I've probably posted them before on one of the threads! I'll have to go through a lot of threads for sure!!

[phkrause]

8 hours ago, 8thdaypriest said:

The "fathers" (patriarchs) - sure, but I doubt the NT apostles.   There is no account of any one of them being resurrected.  The 24 Elders were in place shortly after Christ rose, when He was glorified.  I believe they were resurrected by Christ shortly after He himself was raised by His Father.  Account is at the end of Matthew.

I also believe there are more than 24 of them.  The number 24, comes from David's division of the priests into 24 courses, who rotated in turn, to serve in the Temple.

Steven Bohr has a set of lectures on the 24 elders!! And I know I've posted them on the forum, in one of the threads, I'll see if I can find them. It might take me a while to find them, but when I do I'll re-post here?